Civil Aviation Training Center Thailand Told To Produce More Pilots In Preparation For AEC

[webfact]

CATC told to produce more pilots in preparation for AEC

BANGKOK, 25 April 2012 (NNT) – Deputy Transport Minister Mr. Chatchart Sithipan is urging the Civil Aviation Training Center (CATC) to increase the production of pilots before the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) takes place in 2015.

Mr. Chatchart has reportedly given a policy to the CATC to find a way to produce more graduates as the aviation industry is expected to continue to grow, especially when Thailand becomes part of the AEC in the next three years.

He explained further that with the policy, Thailand will be in the position to supply its pilots to other ASEAN countries. The move is also in line with the government’s policy to raise the number of professionals in logistics.

Around 1,000 student pilots graduate from the CATC each year. The Ministry of Transport will be pushing for an increase of facilities, as well as an expansion of curriculum and admission periods in order to accommodate an expected growing number of students.

-- NNT 2012-04-26

[prefabs]

I believe they are starting a crash course soon

[bapak]

"....Around 1,000 student pilots graduate from the CATC each year. The Ministry of Transport will be pushing for an increase of facilities, as well as an expansion of curriculum and admission periods in order to accommodate an expected growing number of students... "

It would be interesting to know how many of the 1,000 got flight employment. I have met many CATC graduates and they have been on waiting list at various Thai airlines for some years. What I hear frequently is that they only want to work in Thailand (need to be close to Mama) and not be overseas based, while jobs go begging in the Middle East.

[chooka]

I believe they are starting a crash course soon

Doesn't it take more than 2 1/2 years before your handed the keys of an A380?

[sparebox2]

I believe they are starting a crash course soon

Thai can't even say twenty and seventy properly.

Not sure how they get their bearing right.

Just let the Singaporean pilot fly the Thai sky. They are already doing that in Udon.

[GentlemanJim]

I believe they are starting a crash course soon

That sounds like something very undesirable for any pilot to attend. We don't want to teach them how to do that

[bigbamboo]

Is it not the case that pilots can only fly domestic routes within their own country or will that all change with AEC? I remember a problem Air Asia had when their Malaysian pilots were flying in Thailand.

[Jerrytheyoung]

"....Around 1,000 student pilots graduate from the CATC each year. The Ministry of Transport will be pushing for an increase of facilities, as well as an expansion of curriculum and admission periods in order to accommodate an expected growing number of students... "

It would be interesting to know how many of the 1,000 got flight employment. I have met many CATC graduates and they have been on waiting list at various Thai airlines for some years. What I hear frequently is that they only want to work in Thailand (need to be close to Mama) and not be overseas based, while jobs go begging in the Middle East.

It is in my professional area.

First there is an error.CATC as never produced 1000 pilots in a year. 100 is maybe credible. CAFUC, the huge Chinese Flying School and the Asian most important school, organised on several airfields, produces only 500 cadets per year it is already a performance.

Secondly, the other ASEAN Countries are not standing by: in Malaysia there are 8 schools and currently more than a 1,000 jobless young pilots. one of the issue those jobless students are facing is the poor quality of the training in some Flight Training Organisations. Vietnam has now its own Flying School. in Indonesia, there was a shortage of pilots, but currently the number of Flying schools is mushrooming and Malaysian FTOs are loosing indonesian customers because they train at home.

In India there are around 5,000 jobless young pilots and a large part unemployable, trained at too low standards, Airlines does not want them.

This is a major issue; the training standard.

There are three reference standards in our training world:

• FAA (USA), but aside the FAA licence, major US Airlines recruit experienced professionals with important logbook (typically something like 4,000 hours). More, often Airlines request or a sound military experience, or Academic diplomas (bachelor degrees). The FAA licence by itself is not sufficient for being a low time First officer on an Airliner. US Air Force, Navy are decommissioning every year a lot of experienced pilots, and there is also a huge General and Regional Civil Aviation activity which give opportunities for building hours on a logbook
  
• EASA (Europe) at the difference of USA, the Air Forces are too small and the General Aviation is very weak. Europeans like most Countries worldwide has no choice; they have to put on the right seat of an Airliner a "low timed" pilot. For compensating the deficiency in experience, Europe has built a tough Ab Initio training system: tough selection ( typically, less than 1 on 10 candidates pass through a cadet scheme, theoretical knowledge reinforced with tougher exam, flight training very structured, and recently the Flight Instructors qualifications has been upraised. On the worldwide market the EASA trained students has better chance to be recruited than other ones. (Malaysia is already partly at a European compliant standard, Vietnam is working with French schools for setting their standards)
  
• ICAO, which is the bottom line that everybody must respect. the standard is defined by the Annex 1 to the 1944 Chicago Convention. It is updated periodically, the last version introducing mandatory "proficiency english levels" to respect and the new licensing system "MPL".
  

So the FAA system is good as per USA environment (accompanied with an important experience) but not adapted for most of Countries

Thailand is aligned on the ICAO standard as per the Thai Civil Aviation Authority requirements, which means the exportability of young pilots on demanding markets like Middle East or China is weak as those markets are now aligning themselves on the EASA standard. The only school close to EASA standard is IAC-NPU in Nakhon Phanom (which is doing more than the DCA requirements).

In any case, it is the Airline which recruits and decides, like recently in Indonesia, young pilots of worldwide origin are competiting and those without a training at EASA standard have very limited chances.

Before dreaming to export, a revision of the standards is required.

My 3 cents on this issue.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jerrytheyoung

[Jerrytheyoung]

Is it not the case that pilots can only fly domestic routes within their own country or will that all change with AEC? I remember a problem Air Asia had when their Malaysian pilots were flying in Thailand.

The Civil Aviation in charge of the Aircraft registration is the authority which set the requirements for the Crew. Protectionism seems to be the rule however in case of shortage, some "licence equivalences or conversions" may be granted. It is at the good will of the Civil Aviation authority (and its Minister of Transport). And finally it is up to the Airline.... for example Lion Air (has ordered 200+ Boeing B737 New generation) has declared that all the First Officers are going to be Indonesians.

[bapak]

ICAO Level 4 English has been required for all pilots worldwide flying across borders since since mid last year.

There was a mad rush at THAI and Bangkok Airways (and no doubt others) to bring many of their pilots up to this level. Many pilots were removed from rosters to fly nationally only.

At CATC there appears not to be much happening even today with English language training.

[BrianCR]

" This is your Captain speaking! Welcome aboard Thai International Flight TG 69, shortly after take-off I will be coming around with boxes of somtam as I was taught to make while training at CATC..........

[h90]

I believe they are starting a crash course soon

Doesn't it take more than 2 1/2 years before your handed the keys of an A380?

No only silly farangs need that long. Thais are technical naturals, they easily can do it in 2 weeks.

[maprao]

ICAO Level 4 English has been required for all pilots worldwide flying across borders since since mid last year.

There was a mad rush at THAI and Bangkok Airways (and no doubt others) to bring many of their pilots up to this level. Many pilots were removed from rosters to fly nationally only.

At CATC there appears not to be much happening even today with English language training.

Interesting . Does anyone know if the Bachelor in Aviation Electronics (Avionics) or other ground programs are taught in English?

[lumply]

The 1,000 per year graduation rate seems to have been inflated when you consider that it takes over 250 hours to get a CPL (Commercial License) and I/R (Instrument rating), normally in piston twin engined aircraft.Plus degree level ground school and exams. That's before you even get to sit in the First Officers seat of a jet. Then the hour building and simulator type rating training starts. No first line Operater would put an A380 or any wide body in the hands of a Captain with less than 7500 hours and F/O 3500 hours. It's a worthy profession and certainly not a cake walk to qualify and stay qualified. Good luck to TG and all who fly with her.

[Jerrytheyoung]

The 1,000 per year graduation rate seems to have been inflated when you consider that it takes over 250 hours to get a CPL (Commercial License) and I/R (Instrument rating), normally in piston twin engined aircraft.Plus degree level ground school and exams. That's before you even get to sit in the First Officers seat of a jet. Then the hour building and simulator type rating training starts. No first line Operater would put an A380 or any wide body in the hands of a Captain with less than 7500 hours and F/O 3500 hours. It's a worthy profession and certainly not a cake walk to qualify and stay qualified. Good luck to TG and all who fly with her.

There is an obvious error: the current capacity of CAC is around 100 pilots per year. Considering the syllabus imposed by Thai DCA something like 220 hours, it means that the CATC fleet should be around 150/170 aircraft.

Also operating from one airfield is limitative; you can only have 20 aircraft in flight simultaneously (Typically: 5 in the circuit, 6 to 8 in Navigation, 6 to 8 in training areas). If you want to develop your business, you have to make some "detachments"on other airfields, which means secondary installations (operations, maintenance, accomodation for students), you need to negotiate new training areas with other airspace users (Military, ATC, other schools) which is not a simple affair. Thailand does not have free airspace available easily: (even the Boss of Bankok Airways has gotten some difficulties when negotiating for Sukhotai). More developing on several airfields is costly and is deteriorating your budget.

[clockman]

As i have said before, Thailand is in for a big shock in the year 2015! They do not have what it takes, to compete?

[osiboy]

it's a miracle they can fly planes but they can't drive a moped !, or can they fly planes??? ....................or drive even ???, i never feel confident if i know the pilot is thai,................. maybe he will'' cut other planes up on the runway out of habit .

Edited April 26, 2012 by osiboy

[osiboy]

"....Around 1,000 student pilots graduate from the CATC each year. The Ministry of Transport will be pushing for an increase of facilities, as well as an expansion of curriculum and admission periods in order to accommodate an expected growing number of students... "

It would be interesting to know how many of the 1,000 got flight employment. I have met many CATC graduates and they have been on waiting list at various Thai airlines for some years. What I hear frequently is that they only want to work in Thailand (need to be close to Mama) and not be overseas based, while jobs go begging in the Middle East.

It is in my professional area.

First there is an error.CATC as never produced 1000 pilots in a year. 100 is maybe credible. CAFUC, the huge Chinese Flying School and the Asian most important school, organised on several airfields, produces only 500 cadets per year it is already a performance.

Secondly, the other ASEAN Countries are not standing by: in Malaysia there are 8 schools and currently more than a 1,000 jobless young pilots. one of the issue those jobless students are facing is the poor quality of the training in some Flight Training Organisations. Vietnam has now its own Flying School. in Indonesia, there was a shortage of pilots, but currently the number of Flying schools is mushrooming and Malaysian FTOs are loosing indonesian customers because they train at home.

In India there are around 5,000 jobless young pilots and a large part unemployable, trained at too low standards, Airlines does not want them.

This is a major issue; the training standard.

There are three reference standards in our training world:

• FAA (USA), but aside the FAA licence, major US Airlines recruit experienced professionals with important logbook (typically something like 4,000 hours). More, often Airlines request or a sound military experience, or Academic diplomas (bachelor degrees). The FAA licence by itself is not sufficient for being a low time First officer on an Airliner. US Air Force, Navy are decommissioning every year a lot of experienced pilots, and there is also a huge General and Regional Civil Aviation activity which give opportunities for building hours on a logbook
  
• EASA (Europe) at the difference of USA, the Air Forces are too small and the General Aviation is very weak. Europeans like most Countries worldwide has no choice; they have to put on the right seat of an Airliner a "low timed" pilot. For compensating the deficiency in experience, Europe has built a tough Ab Initio training system: tough selection ( typically, less than 1 on 10 candidates pass through a cadet scheme, theoretical knowledge reinforced with tougher exam, flight training very structured, and recently the Flight Instructors qualifications has been upraised. On the worldwide market the EASA trained students has better chance to be recruited than other ones. (Malaysia is already partly at a European compliant standard, Vietnam is working with French schools for setting their standards)
  
• ICAO, which is the bottom line that everybody must respect. the standard is defined by the Annex 1 to the 1944 Chicago Convention. It is updated periodically, the last version introducing mandatory "proficiency english levels" to respect and the new licensing system "MPL".
  

So the FAA system is good as per USA environment (accompanied with an important experience) but not adapted for most of Countries

Thailand is aligned on the ICAO standard as per the Thai Civil Aviation Authority requirements, which means the exportability of young pilots on demanding markets like Middle East or China is weak as those markets are now aligning themselves on the EASA standard. The only school close to EASA standard is IAC-NPU in Nakhon Phanom (which is doing more than the DCA requirements).

In any case, it is the Airline which recruits and decides, like recently in Indonesia, young pilots of worldwide origin are competiting and those without a training at EASA standard have very limited chances.

Before dreaming to export, a revision of the standards is required.

My 3 cents on this issue.

TIT,......No such thing as failure if you have the money !!

[Unkomoncents]

Rush jobs on aviation training are a bad, bad idea. It's like asking for a discount from your lawyer for defense in a criminal cases: for some things you just shouldn't seek discounts. The difference is that airline pilots are responsible for hundreds, and in some cases (9/11), thousands of lives as well as the reputations of the companies they represent.

[ginjag]

If any nostalgic vintage loving pilot has plans--Thai Airways would fit.  Exciting to fly near 25 year old Jumbo. And those t.v. sets they have hooked up to the ceiling, and the prices we charge will ensure I get paid every month, I will apply to Thai Airways  for sure.

[surangw]

How many pay to pass?

[UbonOz]

How many pay to pass?

Scarey thought

[GentlemanJim]

ICAO Level 4 English has been required for all pilots worldwide flying across borders since since mid last year.

There was a mad rush at THAI and Bangkok Airways (and no doubt others) to bring many of their pilots up to this level. Many pilots were removed from rosters to fly nationally only.

At CATC there appears not to be much happening even today with English language training.

I am also professionally involved in aviation and own a company that provides many training services for Flightcrews/Cabin Crew/Techies and ATC. I do not run the company out here, it is busy in the Europe/Middle East, however out of interest I did call the Chief Pilot of an international carrier out here. The call was difficult as his discussion based english was very poor. When i asked him about his plans to ensure his pilots were all at ICAO level 4 English, he said 'We have it all done already', somewhat surprised I asked how, and he told me he had done all the instruction himself! already! I decided to say a cherrie farewell and hung up. There is a huge market here for small square stencils and green permanent marker pens!

How many pay to pass?

India has been involved in a massive fraudulent scandal for the last 5 years at least involving their CAA officials and flight school officials who have been issuing licences to 'rich kids'...lots of them. Is Thailand different or rather will it be if they decide to drastically increase output? You decide, but chances are....

Edited April 26, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Trouble]

"....Around 1,000 student pilots graduate from the CATC each year. The Ministry of Transport will be pushing for an increase of facilities, as well as an expansion of curriculum and admission periods in order to accommodate an expected growing number of students... "

It would be interesting to know how many of the 1,000 got flight employment. I have met many CATC graduates and they have been on waiting list at various Thai airlines for some years. What I hear frequently is that they only want to work in Thailand (need to be close to Mama) and not be overseas based, while jobs go begging in the Middle East.

It is in my professional area.

First there is an error.CATC as never produced 1000 pilots in a year. 100 is maybe credible. CAFUC, the huge Chinese Flying School and the Asian most important school, organised on several airfields, produces only 500 cadets per year it is already a performance.

Secondly, the other ASEAN Countries are not standing by: in Malaysia there are 8 schools and currently more than a 1,000 jobless young pilots. one of the issue those jobless students are facing is the poor quality of the training in some Flight Training Organisations. Vietnam has now its own Flying School. in Indonesia, there was a shortage of pilots, but currently the number of Flying schools is mushrooming and Malaysian FTOs are loosing indonesian customers because they train at home.

In India there are around 5,000 jobless young pilots and a large part unemployable, trained at too low standards, Airlines does not want them.

This is a major issue; the training standard.

There are three reference standards in our training world:

• FAA (USA), but aside the FAA licence, major US Airlines recruit experienced professionals with important logbook (typically something like 4,000 hours). More, often Airlines request or a sound military experience, or Academic diplomas (bachelor degrees). The FAA licence by itself is not sufficient for being a low time First officer on an Airliner. US Air Force, Navy are decommissioning every year a lot of experienced pilots, and there is also a huge General and Regional Civil Aviation activity which give opportunities for building hours on a logbook
  
• EASA (Europe) at the difference of USA, the Air Forces are too small and the General Aviation is very weak. Europeans like most Countries worldwide has no choice; they have to put on the right seat of an Airliner a "low timed" pilot. For compensating the deficiency in experience, Europe has built a tough Ab Initio training system: tough selection ( typically, less than 1 on 10 candidates pass through a cadet scheme, theoretical knowledge reinforced with tougher exam, flight training very structured, and recently the Flight Instructors qualifications has been upraised. On the worldwide market the EASA trained students has better chance to be recruited than other ones. (Malaysia is already partly at a European compliant standard, Vietnam is working with French schools for setting their standards)
  
• ICAO, which is the bottom line that everybody must respect. the standard is defined by the Annex 1 to the 1944 Chicago Convention. It is updated periodically, the last version introducing mandatory "proficiency english levels" to respect and the new licensing system "MPL".
  

So the FAA system is good as per USA environment (accompanied with an important experience) but not adapted for most of Countries

Thailand is aligned on the ICAO standard as per the Thai Civil Aviation Authority requirements, which means the exportability of young pilots on demanding markets like Middle East or China is weak as those markets are now aligning themselves on the EASA standard. The only school close to EASA standard is IAC-NPU in Nakhon Phanom (which is doing more than the DCA requirements).

In any case, it is the Airline which recruits and decides, like recently in Indonesia, young pilots of worldwide origin are competiting and those without a training at EASA standard have very limited chances.

Before dreaming to export, a revision of the standards is required.

My 3 cents on this issue.

Thank you. One of the most informative posts ever on TV.

[Sayonarax]

I believe they are starting a crash course soon

Doesn't it take more than 2 1/2 years before your handed the keys of an A380?

If you know nothing about flying, one shouldn't speak.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Going International: As example of what the Thai cadets may expect: MERPATI recruitment in february (From a blogger"- Fly Gosh-)

"Did another successful pilot recruitment event with Avia Integrated for Merpati Airlines in Surabaya ( 25 - 27 Feb 2012 ). This time we have candidates from Malaysia, Iran, Spain, Holland , German, British, Croatian, Australian, Japanese, Korean, French , Nepalese, Iraqi, Syrian, New Zealander, and etc etc. "

[Ricardo]

Doesn't it take more than 2 1/2 years before your handed the keys of an A380?

I was interested to learn, when I worked for an airline many moons ago, that these valuable mobile assets don't actually have door-locks or ignition-keys. Funny old world !

Edited April 29, 2012 by Ricardo

[oldsailor35]

Now that tourism has dropped off, this should generate jobs for the unemployed mini bus drivers.

[oldsailor35]

"....Around 1,000 student pilots graduate from the CATC each year. The Ministry of Transport will be pushing for an increase of facilities, as well as an expansion of curriculum and admission periods in order to accommodate an expected growing number of students... "

It would be interesting to know how many of the 1,000 got flight employment. I have met many CATC graduates and they have been on waiting list at various Thai airlines for some years. What I hear frequently is that they only want to work in Thailand (need to be close to Mama) and not be overseas based, while jobs go begging in the Middle East.

It is in my professional area.

First there is an error.CATC as never produced 1000 pilots in a year. 100 is maybe credible. CAFUC, the huge Chinese Flying School and the Asian most important school, organised on several airfields, produces only 500 cadets per year it is already a performance.

Secondly, the other ASEAN Countries are not standing by: in Malaysia there are 8 schools and currently more than a 1,000 jobless young pilots. one of the issue those jobless students are facing is the poor quality of the training in some Flight Training Organisations. Vietnam has now its own Flying School. in Indonesia, there was a shortage of pilots, but currently the number of Flying schools is mushrooming and Malaysian FTOs are loosing indonesian customers because they train at home.

In India there are around 5,000 jobless young pilots and a large part unemployable, trained at too low standards, Airlines does not want them.

This is a major issue; the training standard.

There are three reference standards in our training world:

• FAA (USA), but aside the FAA licence, major US Airlines recruit experienced professionals with important logbook (typically something like 4,000 hours). More, often Airlines request or a sound military experience, or Academic diplomas (bachelor degrees). The FAA licence by itself is not sufficient for being a low time First officer on an Airliner. US Air Force, Navy are decommissioning every year a lot of experienced pilots, and there is also a huge General and Regional Civil Aviation activity which give opportunities for building hours on a logbook
  
• EASA (Europe) at the difference of USA, the Air Forces are too small and the General Aviation is very weak. Europeans like most Countries worldwide has no choice; they have to put on the right seat of an Airliner a "low timed" pilot. For compensating the deficiency in experience, Europe has built a tough Ab Initio training system: tough selection ( typically, less than 1 on 10 candidates pass through a cadet scheme, theoretical knowledge reinforced with tougher exam, flight training very structured, and recently the Flight Instructors qualifications has been upraised. On the worldwide market the EASA trained students has better chance to be recruited than other ones. (Malaysia is already partly at a European compliant standard, Vietnam is working with French schools for setting their standards)
  
• ICAO, which is the bottom line that everybody must respect. the standard is defined by the Annex 1 to the 1944 Chicago Convention. It is updated periodically, the last version introducing mandatory "proficiency english levels" to respect and the new licensing system "MPL".
  

So the FAA system is good as per USA environment (accompanied with an important experience) but not adapted for most of Countries

Thailand is aligned on the ICAO standard as per the Thai Civil Aviation Authority requirements, which means the exportability of young pilots on demanding markets like Middle East or China is weak as those markets are now aligning themselves on the EASA standard. The only school close to EASA standard is IAC-NPU in Nakhon Phanom (which is doing more than the DCA requirements).

In any case, it is the Airline which recruits and decides, like recently in Indonesia, young pilots of worldwide origin are competiting and those without a training at EASA standard have very limited chances.

Before dreaming to export, a revision of the standards is required.

My 3 cents on this issue.

I guess that will shut a few of the "know it alls" up Jerry, thanks for the info.

[oldsailor35]

How many pay to pass?

Scarey thought

But thats Thai culture, just consider their universities . I have seen teachers openly declaring that they are not allowed to fail anybody.