History...or Something Like It!

[Pink Mist]

Chippie possibly because the Thais dont really have any rememberance days as such, in OZ you have ANZAC day and Armistace day, which have well televised Marches by the Vets.

My Wife remembers Vietnam she remembers large numbers of Americans in Sahkon Nakhon where she was brought up. Mind you she is a bit older I spose.

[Simmo]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After watching "saving private ryan" with my gf I was astonished to discover that most Americans think they won WWII single handedly (who are these "Allies"??) & that it started in the year 1944.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Simmo

[Plus]

If Thais paid a little more attention to history they could learn a good deal from it. Hitler's rise is a good lesson on democracy.

It's more practical to learn on others' mistakes.

[Ulysses G.]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After watching "saving private ryan" with my gf I was astonished to discover that most Americans think they won WWII single handedly (who are these "Allies"??) & that it started in the year 1944.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, we did win it single-handedly ( other than the odd Russian ), and Churchill was really an American GI with a black side-kick.

Please see the renown WWII documentary, "Churchill, the Hollywood Years" for the whole truth about this matter.

[Plus]

I remember reading that "odd Russians" killed and destroyed 70 - 80% of German army.

From Wikipedia: "The Red Army and other forces of the USSR inflicted about 75% of losses - around 2.5 million men - suffered by German land forces (the Heer and Waffen-SS) in World War II."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(WWII)

Edited December 28, 2005 by Plus

[Ulysses G.]

See the little guy with the rolling eyes?

[yeti]

1. Victory Monument was named after which Thai victory? (Not many Thais can answer this one).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Over France in the Indochina War of 1940–1941. It led (Tokyo Convention of 1941) to the brief recovery of the provinces of Lanchang, Champasak, Pibulsonggram (sp.?) and Battambang, and to the recovery of the right hand part of the Mekong River.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indochina war in 1940-41, lost by France?

Surprisingly (?) I haven't been taught this one in french school

[mogoso]

I really like showing a map of SE Asia to a thai and asking them where Thailand is.

Ever try to get your wife/gf to read a road map to assist you on a drive? aarghh

[mogoso]

1. Victory Monument was named after which Thai victory? (Not many Thais can answer this one).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Over France in the Indochina War of 1940–1941. It led (Tokyo Convention of 1941) to the brief recovery of the provinces of Lanchang, Champasak, Pibulsonggram (sp.?) and Battambang, and to the recovery of the right hand part of the Mekong River.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indochina war in 1940-41, lost by France?

Surprisingly (?) I haven't been taught this one in french school

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats cause the French Indochina War took place from !945 to !954. I guess that was taught.

[Stephen Cleary]

Contrary to some of what has been said here, Modern World History is taught at Thai state schools.

The likes of WWII, The Cold War etc...... are introduced at grade 8+.

The problem is: not much taught. No critical anlaysis is encouraged of course.

Students are just encouraged to remember dates, leaders and countries involved etc.. and thats about it...

Thai TV over recent years has been showing a lot more stuff on foreign history. Thais seem to be much more interested in moden history these days, but certainly not that much!

What amazes me most about the Thai educational syllabus is that they hardly mention 'Pol Pot' and the 'Khmer Rouge' even though, this genocide happened just... next door!

BTW: I hope George W Bush didnt study at any of those TOP HOT American universities! On becoming president he couldnt even think of the names of five of the worlds capital cities!

Edited December 28, 2005 by stevesuphan

[britmaveric]

Contrary to some of what has been said here, Modern World History is taught at Thai state schools.

The likes of WWII, The Cold War etc...... are introduced at grade 8+.

The problem is: not much taught. No critical anlaysis is encouraged of course.

Students are just encouraged to remember dates, leaders and countries involved etc.. and thats about it...

Thai TV over recent years has been showing a lot more stuff on foreign history. Thais seem to be much more interested in moden history these days, but certainly not that much!

What amazes me most about the Thai educational syllabus is that they hardly mention 'Pol Pot' and the 'Khmer Rouge' even though, this genocide happened just... next door!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bad news not actually in the curriculum or avoided!

Actually Ulysses G. asked a few colleagues around the office (yanks) about the significance of Bridge over River Kwai. A blank look on their faces and the responses back lead me to believe not much was taught about past wars.

Edited December 28, 2005 by britmaveric

[Richard W]

Over France in the Indochina War of 1940–1941.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indochina war in 1940-41, lost by France?

Surprisingly (?) I haven't been taught this one in french school

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats cause the French Indochina War took place from 1945 to 1954. I guess that was taught.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps the history of Vichy France doesn't count!

The victory was more at the mediation than on the ground. The Thais won a victory on land (using British-made tanks), while the French defeated the Thai navy at Koh Chang.

Wikipedia's no good because they've just got a link to the wars from 1945 onwards. The most detailed accounts I can find on the web are French-Thai War 1940-41 and Indochina war in 1940-41.

[Chang_paarp]

The thais are not the only one sellective in their history teaching. I went to the same school as the Thai crown prince for a couple of years, he was 6 years ahead of me, he finishing senior school, me in the junior.

You would have thought that this honor would have introduced a slight change in the areas we were taught, as I was in the part of the school that the potential for some flexability in the sylabus. We were taught white Australian history and european history , asia did not exist according to our sylabus. I used to know the Kings of England and the Russian tsars but not one asian prince, king or leader. Once a year the crown prince would write a piece for the school yearbook, that included his photo. That was as much as we acknoweledged asia.

As to list of Univerities who wrote that standard? Was there more than one country giving input to how the establishments were judged? Looks like another world series to me.

[mogoso]

Contrary to some of what has been said here, Modern World History is taught at Thai state schools.

BTW: I hope George W Bush didnt study at any of those TOP HOT American universities! On becoming president he couldnt even think of the names of five of the worlds capital cities!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

W attended Yale, where his GPA was higher than John Kerrys and Harvard Law. Also learn to fly fighter jets. Not a mental midget, just not quick to the answer

Haven't you ever had a mind fart when nothing comes instantly especially when you've alot on your mind other that the caital of Nigeria, Chad, Tonga, Borneo or Honduras

BTW those schools have an extremly large foriegn student population going to them to get an education.

[thaibebop]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm , that was the break-up of the Beatles, right ?

To get serious, the invasion by the Japanese, and the death of a couple of hundred thousand Asians (as well as the farang prisoners-of-war) does seem to come as NEWS to many Thais. Wonder why their schoold don't teach this ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand at the time was allied with the Japanese, now I don't know this for sure buut sinec they were allied and the government at the time was military dictatorship Thais view this time as an embarrassment and there for don't want to teach it to their kids. I have no proof of this is just a suggestion that I have read else where, so truth or not I do not know.

[thaibebop]

Contrary to some of what has been said here, Modern World History is taught at Thai state schools.

BTW: I hope George W Bush didnt study at any of those TOP HOT American universities! On becoming president he couldnt even think of the names of five of the worlds capital cities!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

W attended Yale, where his GPA was higher than John Kerrys and Harvard Law. Also learn to fly fighter jets. Not a mental midget, just not quick to the answer

Haven't you ever had a mind fart when nothing comes instantly especially when you've alot on your mind other that the caital of Nigeria, Chad, Tonga, Borneo or Honduras

BTW those schools have an extremly large foriegn student population going to them to get an education.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

###### that man passes a lot of gas I guess?

Mind farts, yeah right!

[britmaveric]

Who's having the last laff though? Me thinks GWB

[Richard W]

Haven't you ever had a mind fart when nothing comes instantly especially when you've alot on your mind other that the caital of Nigeria, Chad, Tonga, Borneo or Honduras

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reminds me of the pub quiz a colleague took part in:

Q. What's the capital of Borneo?

A. Rangoon

We eventually concluded that someone (e.g. the question master) had misread 'Burma' as 'Borneo'.

[sriracha john]

Top 500 World Universities (1-100)

World Rank Institution* Region Regional Rank Country National Rank Score on Alumni Score on Award Score on HiCi Score on N&S Score on SCI Score on Size Total Score

1 Harvard Univ Americas 1 USA 1 100 100 100 100 100 72.4 100

2 Univ Cambridge Europe 1 UK 1 99.8 93.4 53.3 56.6 70.9 66.9 73.6

3 Stanford Univ Americas 2 USA 2 41.1 72.2 88.5 70.9 72.3 65 73.4

4 Univ California - Berkeley Americas 3 USA 3 71.8 76 69.4 73.9 72.2 52.7 72.8

5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT) Americas 4 USA 4 74 80.6 66.7 65.8 64.3 53 70.1

6 California Inst Tech Americas 5 USA 5 59.2 68.6 59.8 65.8 52.5 100 67.1

7 Columbia Univ Americas 6 USA 6 79.4 60.6 56.1 54.2 69.5 45.4 62.3

8 Princeton Univ Americas 7 USA 7 63.4 76.8 60.9 48.7 48.5 59.1 60.9

9 Univ Chicago Americas 8 USA 8 75.6 81.9 50.3 44.7 56.4 42.2 60.1

10 Univ Oxford Europe 2 UK 2 64.3 59.1 48.4 55.6 68.4 53.2 59.7

11 Yale Univ Americas 9 USA 9 52.1 44.5 60.3 57.2 63.9 49.3 56.9

12 Cornell Univ Americas 10 USA 10 46.5 52.4 55 48.8 66.3 39.8 54.6

13 Univ California - San Diego Americas 11 USA 11 17.7 34.7 59.8 56.5 64.5 46.6 51

14 Univ California - Los Angeles Americas 12 USA 12 27.3 32.8 56.7 50.1 75.6 34.3 50.6

15 Univ Pennsylvania Americas 13 USA 13 35.5 35.1 56.7 42.9 71.8 39.1 50.2

16 Univ Wisconsin - Madison Americas 14 USA 14 43 36.3 52.1 46.3 68.7 29 49.2

17 Univ Washington - Seattle Americas 15 USA 15 28.8 32.4 53.9 47.1 73.8 27.2 48.4

18 Univ California - San Francisco Americas 16 USA 16 0 37.6 55.6 57.9 58.8 45.2 47.8

19 Johns Hopkins Univ Americas 17 USA 17 51.4 28.3 41.6 52.2 67.7 24.9 46.9

20 Tokyo Univ Asia/Pac 1 Japan 1 36 14.4 38.5 52.1 86.5 34.7 46.7

Only 3 of the world's top 20 universities are located outside the USA.

Enough said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and MOST Americans have graduated from them, right?? This is about the "norm", the "average".... not the superlative...

but thanks so much for the report... it's almost relevant.

[Jersey_UK]

I like to think that I know a lot of stuff about history, but the older I get the more I find I do not know. Plenty of stuff that has happened in SEA which I had no idea about.

On a related subject, I still recall a conversation I had with an American couple in Germany years ago, both in their early 20's and both US service personnel based in Germany. They actually came from the same part of the USA as well.

As you do when talking to folk for the first time, we each said where we come from. I said I am from Jersey. (as a few of you may know and the rest of you won't care this does not make me English - British arguably, but as English as Scotsman ).

They looked puzzled because I did not talk like an American and of course I explained that this was a small island near france etc etc. They were especially interested because they were both from New Jersey and they thought it was kinda cool that I came from a place the other side of the world called Jersey.

They still had not at that point realised that New Jersey was named after "my" Jersey. When I pointed this out they were astounded, especially that somewhere so small they had never heard of had given it's name to their "New Jersey". Fair enough I thought, not everyone is interested in that sort of thing.

What really struck me though was when they both said that they had not realised that New Jersey was named after anywhere and were not totally convinced until I had both pointed out that the NEW part of the name New Jersey was a bit of a giveaway and I had also given them a potted history of New Jersey (from our side) which included some names of towns / places which they recognised.

I didn't see them as "Dumb" just that it had never been important to them.

But you would have thought that if you grew up anywhere with "new" in the name it might be a clue that their MAY be an "old" around somewhere?? - even if you didn't know or care where it was.

[udon]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My ex had never heard of The Beatles....... I had a hard days night believing that.

Geography?...... :D

Just what is taught in Thai schools?

[Plus]

Here's the difference. Thais in question don't know about WWII and they don't care. Our poster, Richard W, didn't know about Indochina wars and he looked it up on the Internet and has formed intellegent opinions about the issue.

People are not dumb per se - they are just ignorant and apathetic, like only half alive. I don't know what's better.

[Ulysses G.]

Top 500 World Universities (1-100)

World Rank Institution* Region Regional Rank Country National Rank Score on Alumni Score on Award Score on HiCi Score on N&S Score on SCI Score on Size Total Score

1 Harvard Univ Americas 1 USA 1 100 100 100 100 100 72.4 100

2 Univ Cambridge Europe 1 UK 1 99.8 93.4 53.3 56.6 70.9 66.9 73.6

3 Stanford Univ Americas 2 USA 2 41.1 72.2 88.5 70.9 72.3 65 73.4

4 Univ California - Berkeley Americas 3 USA 3 71.8 76 69.4 73.9 72.2 52.7 72.8

5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT) Americas 4 USA 4 74 80.6 66.7 65.8 64.3 53 70.1

6 California Inst Tech Americas 5 USA 5 59.2 68.6 59.8 65.8 52.5 100 67.1

7 Columbia Univ Americas 6 USA 6 79.4 60.6 56.1 54.2 69.5 45.4 62.3

8 Princeton Univ Americas 7 USA 7 63.4 76.8 60.9 48.7 48.5 59.1 60.9

9 Univ Chicago Americas 8 USA 8 75.6 81.9 50.3 44.7 56.4 42.2 60.1

10 Univ Oxford Europe 2 UK 2 64.3 59.1 48.4 55.6 68.4 53.2 59.7

11 Yale Univ Americas 9 USA 9 52.1 44.5 60.3 57.2 63.9 49.3 56.9

12 Cornell Univ Americas 10 USA 10 46.5 52.4 55 48.8 66.3 39.8 54.6

13 Univ California - San Diego Americas 11 USA 11 17.7 34.7 59.8 56.5 64.5 46.6 51

14 Univ California - Los Angeles Americas 12 USA 12 27.3 32.8 56.7 50.1 75.6 34.3 50.6

15 Univ Pennsylvania Americas 13 USA 13 35.5 35.1 56.7 42.9 71.8 39.1 50.2

16 Univ Wisconsin - Madison Americas 14 USA 14 43 36.3 52.1 46.3 68.7 29 49.2

17 Univ Washington - Seattle Americas 15 USA 15 28.8 32.4 53.9 47.1 73.8 27.2 48.4

18 Univ California - San Francisco Americas 16 USA 16 0 37.6 55.6 57.9 58.8 45.2 47.8

19 Johns Hopkins Univ Americas 17 USA 17 51.4 28.3 41.6 52.2 67.7 24.9 46.9

20 Tokyo Univ Asia/Pac 1 Japan 1 36 14.4 38.5 52.1 86.5 34.7 46.7

Only 3 of the world's top 20 universities are located outside the USA.

Enough said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but thanks so much for the report... it's almost relevant.

That is a lot more than can be said about your inane reply.

MOST of the people who graduated from the world's top 20 universities, which are American, were AMERICANS. Get it?

[udon]

With all those Uni's.....

How come Yanks are so dumb?

Oooh, Ouch, I can feel the flames from here.......

[alleykat]

I really like showing a map of SE Asia to a thai and asking them where Thailand is.

Ever try to get your wife/gf to read a road map to assist you on a drive? aarghh

I like showing them a a map of the world and asking where Thailand is. It cracks me up when they point to somewhere in South America or Africa.

[mogoso]

With all those Uni's.....

How come Yanks are so dumb? 

Oooh, Ouch,  I can feel the flames from here.......     

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think yanks are so dumb, their education is the same as euros, GIGO. (garbage in garbage out) One problem is as I see it the average person in the US puts little or no thought about the European countries, or any foriegn country for that matter (except maybe Mexico for the immigrants) While Euros constantly harp about the US condeming it for one reason or another. Kyoto seems to be a hot topic, but 15 Euro countries have already stated they're not going to meet the guideslines set for 2010, yet continue to yammer at the US.

I remember one British newspaper demanding the right of Euros to vote in US elections.

I've spent a bit of time in europe and I can't see where on the average their any smarter than the yanks, just a different set of life skills and a greater dependency on the teat of goverment. But fear not the US is turning more to the left despite the outward appearance of a conservative goverment.

[sriracha john]

Top 500 World Universities (1-100)

World Rank Institution* Region Regional Rank Country National Rank Score on Alumni Score on Award Score on HiCi Score on N&S Score on SCI Score on Size Total Score

1 Harvard Univ Americas 1 USA 1 100 100 100 100 100 72.4 100

2 Univ Cambridge Europe 1 UK 1 99.8 93.4 53.3 56.6 70.9 66.9 73.6

3 Stanford Univ Americas 2 USA 2 41.1 72.2 88.5 70.9 72.3 65 73.4

4 Univ California - Berkeley Americas 3 USA 3 71.8 76 69.4 73.9 72.2 52.7 72.8

5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT) Americas 4 USA 4 74 80.6 66.7 65.8 64.3 53 70.1

6 California Inst Tech Americas 5 USA 5 59.2 68.6 59.8 65.8 52.5 100 67.1

7 Columbia Univ Americas 6 USA 6 79.4 60.6 56.1 54.2 69.5 45.4 62.3

8 Princeton Univ Americas 7 USA 7 63.4 76.8 60.9 48.7 48.5 59.1 60.9

9 Univ Chicago Americas 8 USA 8 75.6 81.9 50.3 44.7 56.4 42.2 60.1

10 Univ Oxford Europe 2 UK 2 64.3 59.1 48.4 55.6 68.4 53.2 59.7

11 Yale Univ Americas 9 USA 9 52.1 44.5 60.3 57.2 63.9 49.3 56.9

12 Cornell Univ Americas 10 USA 10 46.5 52.4 55 48.8 66.3 39.8 54.6

13 Univ California - San Diego Americas 11 USA 11 17.7 34.7 59.8 56.5 64.5 46.6 51

14 Univ California - Los Angeles Americas 12 USA 12 27.3 32.8 56.7 50.1 75.6 34.3 50.6

15 Univ Pennsylvania Americas 13 USA 13 35.5 35.1 56.7 42.9 71.8 39.1 50.2

16 Univ Wisconsin - Madison Americas 14 USA 14 43 36.3 52.1 46.3 68.7 29 49.2

17 Univ Washington - Seattle Americas 15 USA 15 28.8 32.4 53.9 47.1 73.8 27.2 48.4

18 Univ California - San Francisco Americas 16 USA 16 0 37.6 55.6 57.9 58.8 45.2 47.8

19 Johns Hopkins Univ Americas 17 USA 17 51.4 28.3 41.6 52.2 67.7 24.9 46.9

20 Tokyo Univ Asia/Pac 1 Japan 1 36 14.4 38.5 52.1 86.5 34.7 46.7

Only 3 of the world's top 20 universities are located outside the USA.

Enough said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but thanks so much for the report... it's almost relevant.

That is a lot more than can be said about your inane reply.

MOST of the people who graduated from the world's top 20 universities, which are American, were AMERICANS. Get it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, obviously you need it broken down... you've become an excellent example of some of america's educational system breakdown.

what percent of americans graduate university?

is it over 50%?

what is the definition of "most" Americans? (normally, it means over 50% Americans).

see how that works?

now then, this lesson was free.... future lessons may not be.

[aaaaaa]

BTW: I hope George W Bush didnt study at any of those TOP HOT American universities! On becoming president he couldnt even think of the names of five of the worlds capital cities!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet he is not THE ONLY ONE !

as well as - that quite a lot of people in USA won't know wether Thailand is the capital of Taiwan or it is Taipei - or is it Taiwan capital of Thailand ? or to have some vague idea of its geographical location.

I've spoken with a firend once, Canadian, who spent more than 25 years living in Bangladesh - why doesn't he consider going back to his country. he gave me many reasons. one of those was what surprised me a lot: he said, those people are ignorant and even illiterate. he gave an example: that he went to visit his relatives in USA, crossed country from coast to coast, and many if not most of people, won't even be able to answer where on the map Bangladesh was....

well, simply they feel they don't have or need to. after all - what's that Bangladesh? some insignificant tiny country, poor etc. while most of people in Bangladesh would surely know at least WHAT USA is, and at least aproximately where it is.

then - I'm still not sure can I believe this - he said many of those people can't even read.

go figure !

HERE is what briefest Google search came up with.

and some of those results;

(NAAL) Results

2003 National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) Results

December 15, 2005

or

Survey finds 1 in 20 lack basic English skills

Eleven million U.S. adults — about one in 20 — have such poor English skills that they can't read a newspaper, understand the directions on a bottle of pills or, in many cases, carry on a basic conversation, says a new federal survey that offers the first peek in more than a decade at the USA's "non-literate" adult population ......

Education Secretary Margaret Spellings on Thursday said the federal government will coordinate adult education efforts through several federal agencies. "One adult unable to read is one too many in America."

those who want, surely can find more results - as about how many people there realy have graduated from High school/ college/ University. and then may be - how many of those graduates realy have that knowledge which they supposedly obtained during their studies.

and that is leading nation in the world ! what to say about some "3rd world" country as THailand ?

[Richard W]

Our poster, Richard W, didn't know about Indochina wars

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew of the various Franco-Thai wars / land grabs, as well as something of the wars as French Indo-China became Vietnamese Indo-China. (I'm still not sure what is meant by saying that a couple of Thai fighters were shot down or crashed on the Thai-Vietnamese border, as Flight once reported!) I used the Internet to try and standardise the names as my major source is ML Manich Jumsai's book. I posted the Internet links after I it was suggested that I was confused with the post-WW II wars.

Names do get confusing - is 'the Gulf War' the long war between Iran and Iraq, or Iraq v. the rest of the world, and were the liberation of Kuwait and the deposition of Saddam Hussein in the same war (Parts 1 and 2) or different wars?

[Ulysses G.]

sriracha john,2005-12-29 11:54:26]

see how that works?

Not really. However, I'm impressed by your stubbornness when it comes to defending the utterly indefensible.

By the way, your Thai "logic" is indeed a credit to your alma mater at Sriracha University!