Frustated With Supporting Thai Wifes Family

[Nickerelastic]

TROLL?????????????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If he is a Troll, he's using xxxxxxxx cable.

I don't think ha's a Troll.

He doesn't have as much time online as we do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please dont use my companies name sir. It has had a lto of bad press and I could loose my job over its use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is using who?

[pnustedt]

Over the years I've spent a lot of money on my wife's family to help them support themselves. The result is that they have been able to drag themselves out of poverty.

I do not feel frustrated or any resentment, I feel quite proud that I have been able to make a positive difference to their lives. My wife no longer needs to ask me for money to support her family - I trust her to take only what she needs and to use it wisely.

When I married her I knew what I was getting into - a lot of the stories you read on this site should give anyone a good idea - and if it's not for you then stay away from a long term relationship with a Thai girl.

[sriracha john]

I paid a bride price, had a ceremony Thai style, and all that. But I am unable to get her family out of my pocket for some reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Divorce her. Hang on! Scratch that!

Grow a pair and then divorce her.

I've no sympathy for farangs who marry into low-class Thai families thinking it's love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's wrong with low class ?

They are also humans and can fall in and feel and give love

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The low-class in this situation is the husband.

She should divorce him.

[Heng]

Exactly, just as i mentioned in another forum.

When you marry in Thailand, you marry into a family.

All financial matters have to be arranged before you get married, that is Thai-style.

Not necessarily Steve. A lot of Thais just marry within their socio-economic class, and it's typically either combination of two families into a stronger entity or both families keeping their distance and balancing each other out (like two relatively equal states/provinces/countries). Yeah, strong willed individuals can exist independently in this type of environment (old Thai dudes marrying gals 20+ years their junior and a lower social class), but they have to be strong willed.

[papaya9]

Augustus-- You will always have the upper hand in this matter. Quit wasting your time and say "no"!

Edited December 28, 2005 by papaya9

[Stephen Cleary]

Exactly, just as i mentioned in another forum.

When you marry in Thailand, you marry into a family.

All financial matters have to be arranged before you get married, that is Thai-style.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not necessarily Steve. A lot of Thais just marry within their socio-economic class, and it's typically either combination of two families into a stronger entity or both families keeping their distance and balancing each other out (like two relatively equal states/provinces/countries). Yeah, strong willed individuals can exist independently in this type of environment (old Thai dudes marrying gals 20+ years their junior and a lower social class), but they have to be strong willed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course i know that.

I was writing in response to the thread opener.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well it is difficult to give advice as I am in a position a little like yours except that.

1. I have known my wife for over 12 years and married  for more than 5 so we had what you might call enough time to know more about each other.

2. My wife already had some land and was not soo close to her parents. I bought extra land, the pick up as her Nissan Sunny was fairly old already (but it still goes very well).

3. We built the house up country about 400 km from her parents and we also built a smaller house for my wife to live in until the main house was completed.

4. Her parents are welcome any time but they usually only stay for a week or so and they did not require a pig farm etc. However since we came back here to live in 2001 I have been sending her parents 6,000 baht a month as they are retired and live in Samut Prakan and yes some of it goes to pay for their pick up too. However they are also looking after my wifes neice and nephew whose parents are no longer around and also her youngest brother who is about 10 satang short of a baht. He is a nice guy as long as he keeps on his medication.

5. Her middle brother, his wife and son live with us as he lost his job. His wife is starting to sell food in the local village as they have no income and she is feeling a bit guilty for living with us for free.

6. I have no problem with this arrangement as everybody helps out each other doing what they can and after all they are family.

7. Yes my wife puts her family first before me and there are days when it realy does piss me off but I still love her very much and I just live with it. One advantage of living in the country is that we have a few dogs and things get bad I can always kick one of them, and if it gets worse I go and kick the neighbours dogs instead.

One of the facts of life that nobody tells you about in a relationship between foreigners which is what most of us are is that Thais put family before all especially girls from out of the big cities, because after all the family has supported them all the time of growing up and it is the "thing" (I can't think of the right words) that they do.

In the west we tend to put our parents in "assisted accommodation" when they get old and we go to see them once a week or so.

Here in Thailand they tend to have their parents live with them and take care of them until they die. It also works for us farangs too if we are in a loving relationship as my wife and our son will look after me when I get old.

I change his pampers now, he changes mine later in life. (Oh sweet revenge)

Can I suggest that you buy a book called

Thailand Fever by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant

A Road Map for Thai-Western Relationships

In both English and Thai on facing pages

You've met the perfect Thai woman. You're dizzy with joy as her exotic world swirls around you. You've heard so many horror stories, but your heart tells you that she's for real. You want to understand her mysterious ways, and you wish she could understand yours. Now, there's help...

Thailand Fever is an astonishing, one-of-a-kind, bilingual expose of the cultural secrets that are the key to a smooth Thai–Western relationship.

Thailand Fever speaks to both of you in your native languages. Everything in the book is in both Thai and English

Thailand Fever is the must-have relationship guidebook which lets each of you finally express complex issues by just pointing across the page! See for yourself in detail: Click below on the related websites link to look at the first 35 pages of the book, including the Table of Contents and the first two chapters.

Whether you met in a bar, in a university, or at work, and whether you met last night or a decade ago, Thailand Fever covers your issues:

Trust

Sex

It's My Money

The Parents

The Dowry

Privacy

Independence

Saving Face

Living in Paradise

Paiboon Publishing 2004

Paperback

ISBN 1887521488

257 pages

Get your wife to read it as well.

I had been married for quite a while before I read it and I learnt things from that I wish I had known a long time ago.

Finally I wish you the best of luck in your marriage as I was also working overseas and coming back to Thailand every so often. Now I am semi retired and I live here full time unless some kind person gives me a job.

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Very nicely put Billy. Thanks for your balanced comments.

[Zardoz17]

The low-class in this situation is the husband. She should divorce him.

Wow, after wading through 7 pages, this one makes sense. I enjoyed reading

Steveromagnino's thoughtful post even though the OP is most probably a

TROLL! Seems the SOP of Trolls is to open a provocative thread then disappear. I

guess they have their uses, since it set off such lengthy discussions.

I married a country girl from Srang Koh after marrying 3 American women and I

guess I'm one of the lucky ones who doesn't feel put upon giving money to help

support her family. If the OP has such deep pockets, why doesn't he do everything

that he wants? I did think the 2K pig farm was a nice plot device, keep it up.

In closing, am I the only one that finds Bambina's avatar distracting? But in a good

way

Bill

[britainmal]

Find a Thai girl who can support herself. Drop her. She thinks you are a walking Bank of money because her family put that in her mind like the majority of Thai women unfortunately.

[Savage]

I would like to ask a few questions about relationships having read this thread.

Fistly if one person in the relationship feels they are being taken for a ride how on earth is the relationship supposed to survive?

Surely if this feeling exists then it will just grow and grow, especially if it follows with requests for pick up trucks and what not. It will grow like a cancerous tumor. I feel that as Westerners we have a duty to help as and when we are needed, that was an unwritten pledge that we made when we married into a Thai family. But also the Thai side of YOUR family have a duty as well, not to take the p@ss. There has been a lot of good advise, I think the best is getting the Dad to write a business plan with the view to aquiring a loan from you. If they treat you like an ATM machine then you treat them as a bank manager would. Would a bank lend (give!) people money without seeing any plans as to how the business will be run?

As far as the house goes then this shouldn't even be an issue, do exactly what you want to do. Tell her you want a bigger place for when you have kids. But for gods sake don't get her pregnant yet!

I think you need to sit down and reflect on whether your relationship can survive whilst you are harbouring these negative (but seemingly justified) thoughts. Good luck

[Storekeeper]

I guess I would be one who sends money back to the states to support a family member. It's in the form of a mortgage payment but my mother lives there rent free when I could be renting it out for nearly 3 times that. I guess that counts. I also will help me brother out whenever needed but he rarely asks for help.

Love the advice offered here. The "put the foot down" and "grow some nads" themes are right on. My Thai wife pretty much knows pissing me off likely will result in me going high and to the right if she pushes too far.

Like the budget suggestion as well. My wife was given her initial budget with a documented list of potential expenses from daily to quarterly to yearly ... and warned that exceeding the "generous" budget would result in my reducing it or taking it back ...

I'm cool with the family thing ... it's one of the reasons my wife survived my short list of ladies I was thinking of marrying (Thai/Japanese/American). Just don't think I'm some sort of buffalo.

[cdnvic]

Find a Thai girl who can support herself. Drop her.  She thinks you are a walking Bank of money because her family put that in her mind like the majority of Thai women unfortunately.

What an uninformed, poorly written, and ridiculous statement. Some guys should just get pets. They aren't emotionally equipped to handle women.

cv

[Krub]

Find a Thai girl who can support herself. Drop her.  She thinks you are a walking Bank of money because her family put that in her mind like the majority of Thai women unfortunately.

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Indecent statement

[udon]

Hmm. Not sure if I'm old fashioned or smart, but I wouldn't marry anyone unless I'd lived with them for at least 2 years.

Any family/money probs are bound to raise their ugly head in that time scale.

If they are are not resolved, end of story.

Rent, don't buy, and save like crazy..

[Vegemite]

I paid a bride price, had a ceremony Thai style, and all that. But I am unable to get her family out of my pocket for some reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Divorce her. Hang on! Scratch that!

Grow a pair and then divorce her.

I've no sympathy for farangs who marry into low-class Thai families thinking it's love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That quite a severe thing to say. By low class do you mean poor?

I married an up country lady from a rice farming family with no money and she hasn`t asked me for a cent. Her son is at university and she works her ass off to fund it.

In my country I have met men that have paid through the nose ( a lot ) both in Thailand and at home for weddings and families, some of them have spent tens of thousands of dollars on a single day in Thailand plus flights ect. just to have a high class Thai lady and they continue to pay every day after that.

I wouldnt change my " low-class " lady for anything.

[steveromagnino]

I don't think the comparison that 'because we don't send money back to farang land, therefore we should not have to support thieving Thai family' approach is strictly fair or accurate. We should be able to separate out practicalilty and principle; something that Thai people tend to focus on practicality whereas westerners focus on the principle.

Looking after family is expected in Thai eyes, where possible. For instance, in the case of my now ex girlfriend; who is Japanese, her Thai husband has (since separating) built her a house; the family gives her an allowance of 40,000b a month to live on and the Thai family pays for the 2 children to go to a premier Thai school with a lot of tea money to get in and so on. She has a car and so forth. Realistically, she is not in a position to work and also look after the kids, so the husband provides. The same applies for most of the non Thai women I know married to Thais - however I do mix pretty much only with people in BKK where I live and where some of my family are from, so I cannot be 100% accurate that this is the case in the provinces (where generally the relationships are Thai woman, western/foreign man), and where the ability to look after anyone is severely curtailed by lack of income.

This is the general principle; that the husband should look after his wife. Some men do. Some men don't. Be EXTREMELY careful in casting judgement on ALL Thai men on the basis of who you may have met personally; the Thai men on this forum may take offense if you are going to cast racist aspersions about them on the basis of the few people you know; I could easily dig up a lot of statistics about wife abuse and failure to pay alimony from western countries as well - some men and dogs and playas and some are not.

So, if we understand that Thai daughters in particular are expected to look after their parents then given that many of the posters are probably with a woman with the potential to earn perhaps 10%-20% of their partner's salary; is it realistic to expect that the wife is going to be able to support her family - for those marrying into more affluent Bangkok families this is less of an issue. This being the case, since a marriage is about sharing, what is so hard to help a family who are in many cases less affluent primarily as the result of the place in which they were born? Furthermore, it is realistic that money would flow from a couple earning 30,000b a month to their foreign parents who live in a 30 million baht house? It think not - if the principle is to support the needy, then the money in general flows to the family upcountry; that's what we see happening in Thailand.

The key is how you choose to help them. Handing out money like I see happening in the village where my family owns some land is so counterproductive I really want to stop it, but don't know how. The govt gives away money. The foreigners give the villagers money. The villagers have no idea how to look after it, and end up getting used to a lifestyle which is slightly more luxurious for a while, then when it runs out they are worse than when they started. The only reason to give out handouts of significance is to increase their ability to stand on their own feet. This to me would include education for the children; loans for viable business projects (including property) and a few frivolous things. It is little wonder that the NESDB survey have a quite high percent of young Isaan girls claiming their aim in life was to be a 'meea farang' because so many farang give insane amounts of money away with no expectation placed on it. I can only think of a few people that did this in NZ where I grew up; and they were also the proverbial "kee" and the vast number of women keen on them were like "malaeng".

I know much of this is a repeat; but most of these threads end up in a series of attacks on the woman; not knowing her I think we should give her the benefit of the doubt - however there are enough train wreck stories out there that she should be watched with some caution.

Key points:

- learn Thai

- try to understand the culture by some of the books recommended

- don't 'put your foot down' directly; rather deflect and deal with the problem Thai style

- do try to help support the family, but with boundaries and ways which help them support themselves; do not give out handouts non stop

- do try to teach the family how to budget and prepare for problems

In many of these relationships, I see the typical Thai family like a small tree in a pot. Not big, but strong. The foreign partner coming in has more resources and is like a farmer - he can choose to look after in a number of ways. Just giving money is like watering every day and so the tree grows very fast. but come one day when the water stops falling, the tree starts to die, because it is too big for the pot, and relies on the water from the farmer.

Better to be the farmer who plants the tree in the ground. Doesn't provide much water, but gives the tree the chance to grow itself. Maybe harder for the tree at the beginning but with strong roots and support, the tree can stand itself unaided.

OK, mostly a repeat, but I just want you to all say I write nice

[BambinA]

Sorry, similar meaning to greng jai, but family related?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

err... not sure ..do you mean กตัญญู "Ga tun yoo" =grateful?

[bannork]

Excellent answer Bambina, (show) gratitude to the parents for bringing the child up. It looks like Augustus didn't know his wife too well before tying the knot, it doesn't sound too promising, I think TV members should raise their glasses to him on Sunday in a chorus of,'Happy New Mia!'

[corkscrew]

There is a Thai expression: "Marry someone whose parents are dead."

Someone said it really well on a similar thread

Marry an orphan.

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

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How can I draw the line with out a major blow up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[corkscrew]

That is one of the wisest replies that I have ever read. Excellent advice, Steve.

As a 1/2 Thai, I'll have a shot at answering some of these questions and issues you raise.....

>>(because I am thinking if I help them get a business going it will be less dough I will have to shell out in the future).  But this is outrageous to think that this woman who I married thinks it is better for me to give her family money than it is for me to be comfortable when I come home. 

Why offer to give money free?  Free money carries no responsibility, and generally therefore is used for pointless purposes - witness the money govt chucks around; since it isn't the civil servants' money, they couldn't care less about it.  Ditto for you funding a pig farm.  Unless you can see evidence they know what they are doing, this will end up like the typical farang funded project - a disaster because so many farang think the problem why the Thai family aren't rich is because they don't have capital.  The problem is not that at all.  THe problem is that the Thai family you fund have no business skills and specifically budgeting and planning most likely.  The charity projects I have worked on, we always always always make sure we understand that working with the poor in Thailand is not a case of giving them money, but is a case of giving them the skills to manage what they receive.

In many villages, the foreigners are considered to be headstrong, rich and yet fairly naive and easy to take advantage of, primarily because they can be asked for things so easily.  In future.... no giving money away easily.

>>I thought that when you marry you become the most important thing to each other.

>>Is it normal behavior for a Thai woman to put her family before her spouse? I have a hard time believeing that would be the case if I was I Thai male and not a farang.

Absolutely normal no matter who the spouse is (Thai or farang or other foreigner); the family is usually very important and more important than the spouse.  Even more so in the case of a foreign partner, where in many cases there is an implicit understanding that part of the reason for getting involved with someone who can't speak Thai, doesn't understand the culture and so on (this from the Thai woman's perspective) is traded off against money, financial well being and support for the family.  With no social welfare in place (well there is 30 baht healthcare, handouts around elections, cheap loans but not much else) for the rural population, support comes from the village and the family.  The World Bank noted that it was strong family ties that helped Thailand survive the financial meltdown a few years back; so yes, you will always be second to the family.  Accept it.

>>I am not in the business of taking care of health people nor will I be for much longer.

Fine. If you are not happy, then I suggest that you need to take a good look at your options.  You have set up a pattern of giving and the family are now like a pot plant with you providing the water.  What you wanted was for them to be like a tree planted in the ground, where they could grow and stand themselves.  but for a variety of reasons, you are not in that situation.

You might be aware that healthcare is 30 baht for EVERYTHING here; even counting payoffs to doctors, we are talking thousands of baht for pretty serious surgery and stuff; not hundreds of thousands.... I'd be curiuos to know what hospital, there might be a skim going on here.

To summarise....

You can now choose to stop supporting them, have a big fight farang style and your marriage will probably not recover.  Big fights are how the air is cleared in some western countries; the two arguing come to a consensus.  By comparison Thailand operates on a series of avoidance tactics, and if you can understand that, then you can be a better negotiator (which is what this is).  She brings this relationship you want.  You bring the money to support her family and her lifestyle.

or

You can use a face save; explain that somehow your own family demand that you have to buy an apartment here so they can come visit; use the 'higher authority' tactic - family is great because they can be irrational and you have to do what your mum/dad says - Thai people can understand that.  This ties up your money, and you promise to pay for the pig farm in the future, but you have just enough money to send the father to learn about piggery ?! - there are a number of courses which if you post in the Isaan forum I am sure you'll find.  Let her help pick it out etc etc.

She may be aware that you are playing the game, but it is an almost unbeatable card to play 'the nuts' of a Thai negotiation so to speak.

There are a number of other ways I could respond to this, because I see a fair share of guys who get taken to the cleaners.  But I also see genuine love clouded by the cultural divide, and I'm loathe to comment on which applies here. Either way, there is a big gap between Thai and American culture; even more so if she is from the country.

Learn Thai, understand the culture and things will start to become clearer.

Best of luck.

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[corkscrew]

Another good reply. There are some very smart people on this forum.

Well it is difficult to give advice as I am in a position a little like yours except that.

1. I have known my wife for over 12 years and married  for more than 5 so we had what you might call enough time to know more about each other.

2. My wife already had some land and was not soo close to her parents. I bought extra land, the pick up as her Nissan Sunny was fairly old already (but it still goes very well).

3. We built the house up country about 400 km from her parents and we also built a smaller house for my wife to live in until the main house was completed.

4. Her parents are welcome any time but they usually only stay for a week or so and they did not require a pig farm etc. However since we came back here to live in 2001 I have been sending her parents 6,000 baht a month as they are retired and live in Samut Prakan and yes some of it goes to pay for their pick up too. However they are also looking after my wifes neice and nephew whose parents are no longer around and also her youngest brother who is about 10 satang short of a baht. He is a nice guy as long as he keeps on his medication.

5. Her middle brother, his wife and son live with us as he lost his job. His wife is starting to sell food in the local village as they have no income and she is feeling a bit guilty for living with us for free.

6. I have no problem with this arrangement as everybody helps out each other doing what they can and after all they are family.

7. Yes my wife puts her family first before me and there are days when it realy does piss me off but I still love her very much and I just live with it. One advantage of living in the country is that we have a few dogs and things get bad I can always kick one of them, and if it gets worse I go and kick the neighbours dogs instead.

One of the facts of life that nobody tells you about in a relationship between foreigners which is what most of us are is that Thais put family before all especially girls from out of the big cities, because after all the family has supported them all the time of growing up and it is the "thing" (I can't think of the right words) that they do.

In the west we tend to put our parents in "assisted accommodation" when they get old and we go to see them once a week or so.

Here in Thailand they tend to have their parents live with them and take care of them until they die. It also works for us farangs too if we are in a loving relationship as my wife and our son will look after me when I get old.

I change his pampers now, he changes mine later in life. (Oh sweet revenge)

Can I suggest that you buy a book called

Thailand Fever by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant

A Road Map for Thai-Western Relationships

In both English and Thai on facing pages

You've met the perfect Thai woman. You're dizzy with joy as her exotic world swirls around you. You've heard so many horror stories, but your heart tells you that she's for real. You want to understand her mysterious ways, and you wish she could understand yours. Now, there's help...

Thailand Fever is an astonishing, one-of-a-kind, bilingual expose of the cultural secrets that are the key to a smooth Thai–Western relationship.

Thailand Fever speaks to both of you in your native languages. Everything in the book is in both Thai and English

Thailand Fever is the must-have relationship guidebook which lets each of you finally express complex issues by just pointing across the page! See for yourself in detail: Click below on the related websites link to look at the first 35 pages of the book, including the Table of Contents and the first two chapters.

Whether you met in a bar, in a university, or at work, and whether you met last night or a decade ago, Thailand Fever covers your issues:

Trust

Sex

It's My Money

The Parents

The Dowry

Privacy

Independence

Saving Face

Living in Paradise

Paiboon Publishing 2004

Paperback

ISBN 1887521488

257 pages

Get your wife to read it as well.

I had been married for quite a while before I read it and I learnt things from that I wish I had known a long time ago.

Finally I wish you the best of luck in your marriage as I was also working overseas and coming back to Thailand every so often. Now I am semi retired and I live here full time unless some kind person gives me a job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[britmaveric]

Guys, some advice, ok, this is the land of buffalo stories, picture it like that.

Everybodies trying to scam everyone at some level.

So you being a smart farang - you make your own buffalo stories!

Yes its true and its very effective.  Everytime i am hit up for cash i think

of the most wildest story of why i cant help out.  The key though is

to keep a straight face and a nice Thai smile in the delivery of such

story.  I usually cant so when i burst out laughing i pretend i am coughing.

Then i tell them i think i have Tuberculosis or sick from nok- another buffalo story,

This story will send them to hills alone.

The crazier the story the more effective.  My favorite is "a ghost came and

took all the $$$ out of my wallet". Then ask them for 500 baht to hold u

over for a bit. This ones a hit!! Try it. I am serious! The ews and the aws

are priceless. 

This post is not a joke,  try it, its alot of fun, AND IT WORKS   I actually

look forward to being scammed now.

take care

nam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Classic!!!! Might have to test the waters with this and see how this works.

[Guest endure]

Hmm. Not sure if I'm old fashioned or smart, but I wouldn't marry anyone unless I'd lived with them for at least 2 years.

Any family/money probs are bound to raise their ugly head in that time scale.

If they are are not resolved, end of story.

Rent, don't buy, and save like crazy..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You talking about the house or the wife, udon?

[creation2474]

I paid a bride price, had a ceremony Thai style, and all that. But I am unable to get her family out of my pocket for some reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Divorce her. Hang on! Scratch that!

Grow a pair and then divorce her.

I've no sympathy for farangs who marry into low-class Thai families thinking it's love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's wrong with low class ?

They are also humans and can fall in and feel and give love

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all respect, I think he means that it is more likely for poor people to exploit "rich" westerners than for the rich ones.

[creation2474]

Guys, some advice, ok, this is the land of buffalo stories, picture it like that.

Everybodies trying to scam everyone at some level.

So you being a smart farang - you make your own buffalo stories!

Yes its true and its very effective.  Everytime i am hit up for cash i think

of the most wildest story of why i cant help out.  The key though is

to keep a straight face and a nice Thai smile in the delivery of such

story.  I usually cant so when i burst out laughing i pretend i am coughing.

Then i tell them i think i have Tuberculosis or sick from nok- another buffalo story,

This story will send them to hills alone.

The crazier the story the more effective.  My favorite is "a ghost came and

took all the $$$ out of my wallet". Then ask them for 500 baht to hold u

over for a bit. This ones a hit!! Try it. I am serious! The ews and the aws

are priceless. 

This post is not a joke,  try it, its alot of fun, AND IT WORKS   I actually

look forward to being scammed now.

take care

nam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW!

[monochaser]

Anyone who marries a TG had better prepare to help out the family in a big way because that is what is expected and required. If you do or do not help the TG will seek help elsewhere. This is the reality of Thai culture

[Heng]

Exactly, just as i mentioned in another forum.

When you marry in Thailand, you marry into a family.

All financial matters have to be arranged before you get married, that is Thai-style.

Not necessarily Steve. A lot of Thais just marry within their socio-economic class, and it's typically either combination of two families into a stronger entity or both families keeping their distance and balancing each other out (like two relatively equal states/provinces/countries). Yeah, strong willed individuals can exist independently in this type of environment (old Thai dudes marrying gals 20+ years their junior and a lower social class), but they have to be strong willed.

Of course i know that.

I was writing in response to the thread opener.

Klrab. Just didn't want the local TV'ers to think that it was normal to sit down and formally talk financial arrangements, payment plans, etc. (for Thai-Thai marriages).

[britmaveric]

Anyone who marries a TG had better prepare to help out the family in a big way because that is what is expected and required. If you do or do not help the TG will seek help elsewhere. This is the reality of Thai culture

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For some.....

[Steve2UK]

I don't think the comparison that 'because we don't send money back to farang land, therefore we should not have to support thieving Thai family' approach is strictly fair or accurate.  We should be able to separate out practicalilty and principle; something that Thai people tend to focus on practicality whereas westerners focus on the principle.

Looking after family is expected in Thai eyes, where possible.  For instance, in the case of my now ex girlfriend; who is Japanese, her Thai husband has (since separating) built her a house; the family gives her an allowance of 40,000b a month to live on and the Thai family pays for the 2 children to go to a premier Thai school with a lot of tea money to get in and so on.  She has a car and so forth.  Realistically, she is not in a position to work and also look after the kids, so the husband provides.  The same applies for most of the non Thai women I know married to Thais - however I do mix pretty much only with people in BKK where I live and where some of my family are from, so I cannot be 100% accurate that this is the case in the provinces (where generally the relationships are Thai woman, western/foreign man), and where the ability to look after anyone is severely curtailed by lack of income.

This is the general principle; that the husband should look after his wife.  Some men do.  Some men don't.  Be EXTREMELY careful in casting judgement on ALL Thai men on the basis of who you may have met personally; the Thai men on this forum may take offense if you are going to cast racist aspersions about them on the basis of the few people you know; I could easily dig up a lot of statistics about wife abuse and failure to pay alimony from western countries as well - some men and dogs and playas and some are not.

So, if we understand that Thai daughters in particular are expected to look after their parents then given that many of the posters are probably with a woman with the potential to earn perhaps 10%-20% of their partner's salary; is it realistic to expect that the wife is going to be able to support her family - for those marrying into more affluent Bangkok families this is less of an issue.  This being the case, since a marriage is about sharing, what is so hard to help a family who are in many cases less affluent primarily as the result of the place in which they were born?   Furthermore, it is realistic that money would flow from a couple earning 30,000b a month to their foreign parents who live in a 30 million baht house?  It think not - if the principle is to support the needy, then the money in general flows to the family upcountry; that's what we see happening in Thailand.

The key is how you choose to help them.  Handing out money like I see happening in the village where my family owns some land is so counterproductive I really want to stop it, but don't know how.  The govt gives away money.  The foreigners give the villagers money.  The villagers have no idea how to look after it, and end up getting used to a lifestyle which is slightly more luxurious for a while, then when it runs out they are worse than when they started.  The only reason to give out handouts of significance is to increase their ability to stand on their own feet.  This to me would include education for the children; loans for viable business projects (including property) and a few frivolous things.  It is little wonder that the NESDB survey have a quite high percent of young Isaan girls claiming their aim in life was to be a 'meea farang' because so many farang give insane amounts of money away with no expectation placed on it.  I can only think of a few people that did this in NZ where I grew up; and they were also the proverbial "kee" and the vast number of women keen on them were like "malaeng".

I know much of this is a repeat; but most of these threads end up in a series of attacks on the woman; not knowing her I think we should give her the benefit of the doubt - however there are enough train wreck stories out there that she should be watched with some caution.

Key points:

- learn Thai

- try to understand the culture by some of the books recommended

- don't 'put your foot down' directly; rather deflect and deal with the problem Thai style

- do try to help support the family, but with boundaries and ways which help them support themselves; do not give out handouts non stop

- do try to teach the family how to budget and prepare for problems

In many of these relationships, I see the typical Thai family like a small tree in a pot.  Not big, but strong.  The foreign partner coming in has more resources and is like a farmer - he can choose to look after in a number of ways.  Just giving money is like watering every day and so the tree grows very fast.  but come one day when the water stops falling, the tree starts to die, because it is too big for the pot, and relies on the water from the farmer.

Better to be the farmer who plants the tree in the ground.  Doesn't provide much water, but gives the tree the chance to grow itself.  Maybe harder for the tree at the beginning but with strong roots and support, the tree can stand itself unaided.

OK, mostly a repeat, but I just want you to all say I write nice     

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Steveromagnino - you write not just nice but oh so wise..............

IMO, your key points above (and probably all of your posts on this thread) deserve to be pinned for the benefit of all.

FWIW, I don't think the OP is a troll; his first post was just two days ago and there has been a torrent of replies since. Not unreasonable then that there should be such an apparent gap between his first post and his second. Anyhow, troll or not, the thread is definitely throwing a spotlight on a theme that affects nearly all farang with a Thai partner - and Thai family beyond.

I absolutely hate totally sweeping generalisations that are thrown out at all farang or all Thai. Yes, there are cultural differences - and also countless shades of grey in between. My take on the basic theme is that most of the problems tend to occur because too much happens too quickly and with too little mutual understanding. Obvious, of course, but no less frequent for that. It seems that there is so often a headlong rush from both sides - grab that partner before you lose him/her. Why the rush? Life is not like a store sale, the "stock" doesn't sell out and the choices do continue. So - there is time to get to know each other well enough before tying the knot. "Marry in haste, repent at leisure" and all those well-worn cliches.........

OK - I'll risk one farang-Thai generalisation. It almost goes without saying that many Thai's perception of the typical farang is of someone with limitless wealth and the willingness to spend it. Combine that with a Thai culture that tends to look to a rich relative to help out others less well off - and the course of events is fairly predictable. So (as Steveromagnino indicates), it's something that almost certainly has to be actively managed - preferably by both parties reaching a good mutual understanding before it gets out of control.

I recall an earlier thread on the same subject as this one (unsurprisingly). The best advice that I saw there was for the farang husband to give his Thai wife a fixed budget which was sufficient for her to give a portion to her family - up to her how much she chose to keep or pass on. The point being that she was far better equipped to deal with handout-seeking relatives than he was. Of course, if she is effectively only acting as an agent on the relatives' behalf - then that is plainly not a marriage/partnership with much of a future...........

In my relatively limited experience of LOS, I have already managed to learn (admittedly after a shaky start) how not to say "yes" now. It's tough and I also know I won't maintain a 100% record - but it is possible to get close enough to keep it manageable. The key is in those three little words: "up to you"................. you do have to make an active choice.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Steve2UK

[rishi]

Anyone who marries a TG had better prepare to help out the family in a big way because that is what is expected and required. If you do or do not help the TG will seek help elsewhere. This is the reality of Thai culture

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...you've hereby, defined yourself as a person, who makes comment on things on which he doesn't have the slightest clue ... grow up!