Departure Denied.....Active Work Permit/Visa...Phone A Friend!

[Kitbaikitmah]

The last month a number of ESL Teachers have been denied departure from the Kingdom (at land crossings) because thier work permits are still active.

Clearence has only been granted when the school has faxed a 'headed' letter confirming the person is no longer employed.....at the date of attempted departure.

The working visa and work permit are interlinked.. Should either expire or be terminated you must immediately transfer to a Tourist visa.

If you have not co-ordinated with your employer (nicely!) when your work contact has completed (or been terminated) and decide to have a relaxing island holiday until your visa/work permit expires.......your end-of-contract date takes president and you will be fined as overstay from the EoC date.

Some teachers have faced a 10k overstay fine whilst in visa limbo at immigraton posts...for a couple of days. However this has been rescinded by the grace of the school director with a phone call and a fax....the now ex-employee has then been allowed to depart without being fined.....probably never to return.

I was told this is enabled by newly introduced online data-tracking.

Without loading the reply dice too much...one should carefully research and select the establishment granting you a work visa and permit....once you sign....your short and curlies will now be firmly in their grasp.

Wai, smile, wai again, keep smiling, keep wai-ing and NEVER EVER utter a truism.

Kitbaikitmah

[KeyserSoze01]

Although I understand that this event took place, I wonder if it is localized to the immigration station that handled your friends attempted exit from the country. To me it sounds ludicrous that the Thai authorities would ban someone from leaving the country just because they have a valid work permit. What about all of those folks in country with work permits that their work requires them to travel outside the country?

[Kitbaikitmah]

The first time it happened (at a Cambodian crossing)....I thought so too...but later at Nong Kai (a major crossing)......yes sounds crazy but I was there to hear the office phone dialogue. As for people whos work crosses the borders....I have no idea (maybe the computorised system recognises them?). However I was referring to the average teacher on an average work permit/visa.....the majority of teachers. The posting is a warning from the last months events....I don't know the policy mechanics. As with many things, we don't know they are in effect...until there is an effect.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Kitbaikitmah

[Ijustwannateach]

Ok... let's look at this closely... It is OLD NEWS that the work permit is linked to the NON IMMIGRANT 'B' type visa, if that's what you HAVE (not all teachers or other people with work permits do). And yes, when they cancel that sucker, your visa goes pretty darn quick. So plan accordingly- or, transfer from job to job in a *friendly* manner and have the two employers do the handshake thing with the paperwork. And those are the choices, and have always been the choices.

But what this is NOT- is saying that because you have a VALID work permit that you LOSE YOUR VISA (which is what the OP is trying to twist it as, or at least the way it read the first 2-3 times I tried to understand what he was going on about). It is because your work permit and your visa were CANCELLED AND YOU OVERSTAYED. Which means all the laws applying to overstay now apply to you.

So know the law, and plan accordingly. Nothing new here.

[4evermaat]

Ok... let's look at this closely... It is OLD NEWS that the work permit is linked to the NON IMMIGRANT 'B' type visa, if that's what you HAVE (not all teachers or other people with work permits do). And yes, when they cancel that sucker, your visa goes pretty darn quick. So plan accordingly- or, transfer from job to job in a *friendly* manner and have the two employers do the handshake thing with the paperwork. And those are the choices, and have always been the choices.

But what this is NOT- is saying that because you have a VALID work permit that you LOSE YOUR VISA (which is what the OP is trying to twist it as, or at least the way it read the first 2-3 times I tried to understand what he was going on about). It is because your work permit and your visa were CANCELLED AND YOU OVERSTAYED. Which means all the laws applying to overstay now apply to you.

So know the law, and plan accordingly. Nothing new here.

So once you are fired or quit the job that got you the work permit, how many days before the visa is cancelled?

Is it easier to receive a work permit with Non-O visa?

[Loaded]

We recently experienced this problem with a teacher exiting Thailand via Nong Khai. They were leaving on good terms despite breaking their contract. I believe schools are legally obliged to inform Immigration and Labour of the teacher's last day of work. This teacher asked us to delay telling Immigration and Labour as they wished to travel for a few weeks before exiting the country. We agreed to this as a gesture of goodwill. They never contacted us again until they tried to leave the country. As explained above Immigration in Nong Khai needed a fax from us in order to allow them to leave.

[Loaded]

As I understand things, cancellation of a work permit doesn't mean automatic cancellation of a visa. However, it does mean that any extension to the original visa will be cancelled as the reason for the extension of stay is no longer valid.

IE a 3-month visa can't be cancelled within those 3 months. However, a 3-month visa extended can be cancelled at any time after the 3-month period.

[Scott]

Unless you have a re-entry permit, your visa or extension of stay would be canceled. Our teachers are all under contract until April 30th of each year. Some teachers have to work in April and some have the summer off. Since they are on the payroll, If they have not renewed their contract, if they leave without a re-entry permit, the visa and work permit are automatically cancelled (as I understand it).

The only call we've received was a few years back when a teacher who was leaving went to immigration to change from a non-B visa with extension of stay and work permit to a non-O visa for retirement.

[4evermaat]

As I understand things, cancellation of a work permit doesn't mean automatic cancellation of a visa. However, it does mean that any extension to the original visa will be cancelled as the reason for the extension of stay is no longer valid.

IE a 3-month visa can't be cancelled within those 3 months. However, a 3-month visa extended can be cancelled at any time after the 3-month period.

Unless you have a re-entry permit, your visa or extension of stay would be canceled. Our teachers are all under contract until April 30th of each year. Some teachers have to work in April and some have the summer off. Since they are on the payroll, If they have not renewed their contract, if they leave without a re-entry permit, the visa and work permit are automatically cancelled (as I understand it).

The only call we've received was a few years back when a teacher who was leaving went to immigration to change from a non-B visa with extension of stay and work permit to a non-O visa for retirement.

So let us clear this up a bit. A non-imm b or non-imm [whatever], whether single or multpile entry VISA cannot be cancelled just for leaving a job. It is valid until the expire date stamped on the VISA in the passport.

An EXTENSION (with or without re-entry permit added) may be cancelled, if you no longer meet the requirements that the extension was granted for? In this case, you got an extension for working in thailand, so if you are no longer working, and the work permit is cancelled, then you no longer meet the requirements of the extension, and therefore the extension can be revoked as soon as immigration is contacted.

I think Ijustwannateach was trying to make this distintion earlier. Why would immigration "HOLD" someone here

unless to collect overstay fee?

[TomJoad]

The way I understand it, if the school doesn't inform the ministry of labor that the teacher isn't there anymore (i,e. quit, got fired, contract expired, etc), then the ministry of labor doesn't contact immigration to cancel the non-b visa. Then, immigration doesn't get to charge an overstay since as far as they know, the non-b visa is still valid (which it is since it never got cancelled). This sounds like an attempt by immigration to close that loophole. Just a guess, though.

[Soutpeel]

"Some teachers have faced a 10k overstay fine whilst in visa limbo at immigraton posts...for a couple of days"

They have been on more than a couple of days overstay for a 10k fine....try 20 days overstay

Believe what has been written here contains misinformation,half truths and misunderstanding of the actual system

If the persons concerned were on extension of stay for purposes of employment the day their work is finished, they should be leaving the country or pay THB1900 for a 7 day extension or face overstay fines.

I believe this is the situation the OP is talking about and this is nothing new....person(s) on extension of stay have finished work and they have stayed in country on holiday

[Ijustwannateach]

As I understand things, cancellation of a work permit doesn't mean automatic cancellation of a visa. However, it does mean that any extension to the original visa will be cancelled as the reason for the extension of stay is no longer valid.

IE a 3-month visa can't be cancelled within those 3 months. However, a 3-month visa extended can be cancelled at any time after the 3-month period.

Unless you have a re-entry permit, your visa or extension of stay would be canceled. Our teachers are all under contract until April 30th of each year. Some teachers have to work in April and some have the summer off. Since they are on the payroll, If they have not renewed their contract, if they leave without a re-entry permit, the visa and work permit are automatically cancelled (as I understand it).

The only call we've received was a few years back when a teacher who was leaving went to immigration to change from a non-B visa with extension of stay and work permit to a non-O visa for retirement.

So let us clear this up a bit. A non-imm b or non-imm [whatever], whether single or multpile entry VISA cannot be cancelled just for leaving a job. It is valid until the expire date stamped on the VISA in the passport.

An EXTENSION (with or without re-entry permit added) may be cancelled, if you no longer meet the requirements that the extension was granted for? In this case, you got an extension for working in thailand, so if you are no longer working, and the work permit is cancelled, then you no longer meet the requirements of the extension, and therefore the extension can be revoked as soon as immigration is contacted.

I think Ijustwannateach was trying to make this distintion earlier. Why would immigration "HOLD" someone here

unless to collect overstay fee?

I think what Loaded was saying is that technically it is the EXTENSION of the visa BASED on your employment that gets cancelled- and YES, it does get cancelled. Going back to your original visa date wouldn't help because the Non-ImmB is likely to have expired already (without the extension). I'm not sure of the exact deadline once your work permit gets cancelled, but I know it's a matter of days, and then you have to have another visa extension lined up or exit the country and start the process over again.

[Kitbaikitmah]

Thank you guys for your analyse and explainations based on your experiance and knowledge.

The initial explaination was provided by my school Director.....hence the posting to clarify underlying mis-communication.

To clarify a point in the posting. "A couple of days" refers to the time spent (crossing denied) waiting for communication and paperwork (because it hasn't happened before).

Again the posting (phone a friend) was to bring reason and understanding to bear on the events and prevent others experiancing the same situation.

Apologies for the newbiness of the post....I just teach (note: in the present continuous tense)....Immigration confounds me...hence the asking of a peer and mentor group for advice.

Thank you again.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Kitbaikitmah

[Sophon]

I really think this thread would be much better suited for the Thai Visa forum. It's about leaving the country with a valid extension based on employment and doesn't really have anything to do with teaching as such.

Sophon