Growth Cycle Of Pla Nin

[Lonsi]

Can somebody tell me where i sell my Ba Nin Fish! I stay at Isaan!

[David48]

Can somebody tell me where i sell my Ba Nin Fish! I stay at Isaan!

We normally don't get your style down here amongst the good folk in the Farming Forum.

Maybe is your normal stroll through your local market the answer you seek may come to you ...

[finnomick1]

Ozzydom,

do you add your 16-20-0 fertiliser at the beginning of each growing cycle before you introduce the fry, or do you add it as an on-going process to keep the algae levels up ?

I've been trying to locate a source of soy bean meal in and around our area town of Prakhon Chai -- no luck so far. Is this a regional item I wonder ? Any help would be gratefully received.

Thanks for all the information to date, very valuable, and hopefully for advice to come.

[ozzydom]

FM1, About 8kg per rai is added about a week before fry, this will start a bloom and give a population of micro organism and phyto plankton for the fry to eat.

A maintenance quantity of about 3 kg should then be added per month.

Thailand Vegetable Oils is the supplier of the soy meal and only one of the many feed and fertilizer shops in our area stock it ,a call to the supplier may help establish an outlet in your area.

[finnomick1]

FM1, About 8kg per rai is added about a week before fry, this will start a bloom and give a population of micro organism and phyto plankton for the fry to eat.

A maintenance quantity of about 3 kg should then be added per month.

Thailand Vegetable Oils is the supplier of the soy meal and only one of the many feed and fertilizer shops in our area stock it ,a call to the supplier may help establish an outlet in your area.

Thanks for the info OD, it is appreciated. I'll get the misses onto it on monday ( just in case they're not open tomorrow ). Regarding the soy meal, what weight / percentage ratio do you mix with you ram and are these the only two ingredients you mix for your feed ?

[ozzydom]

Ram is about 10% protein and Soy meal 45% so I mix 2 parts ram to 1 soy while they ate on the lay and cut back to 3 parts ram when they are not.

Because they free range much of the day I figure they get the rest of their requirements from the grass,insects ,snails etc they consume.

[necronx99]

Ram is about 10% protein and Soy meal 45% so I mix 2 parts ram to 1 soy while they ate on the lay and cut back to 3 parts ram when they are not.

Because they free range much of the day I figure they get the rest of their requirements from the grass,insects ,snails etc they consume.

Sorry, what's "Ram"?

[ozzydom]

When rice is milled,you end up with the cleaned rice, the rice husk ,and the fines which is inner shell, powder from the polishing and small bits of broken rice ,ram (pronounced lum) is the latter.

[ray23]

Nice pics Ray,just one comment, the water in that pond looks to have a bit of suspended clay still in it,the water should ideally be nearer the colour of the grass around the edges.

scattering 1/2 bag of Dolomite over the surface will help as the dolomite reacts with the clay and helps it settle to the bottom.

I will be in Udon for a few days R&R shortly ,so if "she who must be obeyed" were to knock up one of her "famous" choccy cakes ,I could be enticed out to look at your setup.

cheers

dom

Finally found the right mix on fertilizer, no luck on dolomite, you better hurry up cake was made yesterday

[finnomick1]

Nice pics Ray,just one comment, the water in that pond looks to have a bit of suspended clay still in it,the water should ideally be nearer the colour of the grass around the edges.

scattering 1/2 bag of Dolomite over the surface will help as the dolomite reacts with the clay and helps it settle to the bottom.

I will be in Udon for a few days R&R shortly ,so if "she who must be obeyed" were to knock up one of her "famous" choccy cakes ,I could be enticed out to look at your setup.

cheers

dom

Finally found the right mix on fertilizer, no luck on dolomite, you better hurry up cake was made yesterday

Shame the cake isn't travelling past our house or I'd put the kettle on...... Tried ringing TVO this morning but no answer so we'll try again on monday. OD, do you dry mix the ram with the soy meal then feed or do you add water to bind it together then feed it in ' lumps ' as in fishing bait ?

[ozzydom]

FM1, a bit of confusion down the line somewhere, the ram /soy mix is for ducks,

I tried mixing fish food with it by mixing with vegetable oil but it still breaks up to quickly and the heavier soy meal sinks.

Ram is best just broadcast over the pond surface,(I just heave a bucketful out)make sure breeze is coming from behind you.

[ray23]

Here is something you don't see everyday, the lady is about 40 feet above the ground cutting the tops of bamboo. I know off topic but had only one photo like it

[finnomick1]

FM1, a bit of confusion down the line somewhere, the ram /soy mix is for ducks,

I tried mixing fish food with it by mixing with vegetable oil but it still breaks up to quickly and the heavier soy meal sinks.

Ram is best just broadcast over the pond surface,(I just heave a bucketful out)make sure breeze is coming from behind you.

Aha. I have re-read the posts in this topic and I think the confussion enters in ( your ) post #46 where you write about fish food and go on to mention feed for chickens and ducks. I assumed this was just another and cheaper way to feed the fish. Never mind, it got the grey cells moving for once but the info you have provided has still been very useful. The pond where I grow the mono-sex pla nin isn't as green as the other ponds, so I'm going to get some of the 16 - 20 - 0 and add a few handfuls.

A bit off topic, but with all the rain and thunder storms we've been having over the last two weeks, the frogs have done their stuff and we've got tadpoles everywhere -- good news

[ray23]

Well I had a rare treat yesterday got a visit from Dom and he checked out my operation. You can learn so much more with a face to face.

Dolimite, couldnlt find it anywhere, he explained thatr lime would do the same thing and that I can find everywhere.

I also found out I waisted five kilos of the special fertilizer. He hangs it in a bag and it;s with a high pressure hose. The reason being is it does not disolve proply and jusy goes to the bottom. Well I don't have a high pressure hose.

But the wife has a wet and dry blender that is never used. didn't tell her. But , ground it to find powder the belended wiht water in the blinder. It was perfect. Might want to think twice about asking for Maguarita at my house

It was a great visit unfortunately he didn't have time for the cake so I ate an extra slice just for him last night.

The highest fish protien food I have found here is 25. It also is 415 baht a bag compared to 300 for the 15.5% When you feed 3 kilos day that can really add up. Dom explained that the algae is 50% protien so I will concentrate on that. In the end I hope to make few baht

Lom our house keeper knows where to find it, she is thinking a 120 baht a kilo. of it is I will pass.

Everthing here in Udon is much higher then the area where Dom has his operation. Thought about going to his area and get pickup load. Problem, with that is fish food can go bad quickly, especially if it gets wet. We found that out the hard way, water got into a open bag. Stunk to high heaven and we threw aboit 20% away.

The bags are sealed in plastic till you open them. So may or may not work.

Anyone in the Khan Kean area what is fish food costing in your area?

Udon is really not known for farrang pricing abd the wife4 gets the same price as I do.

I may consider using the 25 when I start using the grow our pond.

[finnomick1]

Ray, if that cake is as good as you reckon, you can EMS me down a bit -- that's if you haven't eaten it all yet ! Another thing you may try is duckweed, you know, the very small plant that floats on the top of ponds. Not easy to grow cos the fish keep eating it but I'm told that is protien rich too. I try and grow it in my frog ponds all year round, then chuck it in to the pla nin. Gone in seconds.

Last time I bought the 15.5%, we got it for 285 baht a bag. I only bought 7 bags and that was in Buriram town centre. Here in Prakhon Chai, the old dowager's won't let it go for less than 300 too. I don't know yet where OD resides so I can't comment on his area. I keep the sacks of food indoors in our storage area. I empty the opened bag into a black dustbin which has a lid and handles -- you can buy these in BigC for under 200 baht. I wait until the have a 2-for-1 sale and get a few. You can even keep these bins down by your ponds cos rain won't get in. The misses also uses these bins for her mushrooms ' syrup ' that she mixes up. stinks something bad, a bit like pla ra. side benefit is that you get lots of meal worms and these go to the fish too. A mate of mine has just bought some meal worms ( bl**dy expensive ) with a view to breeding them. I'm told it works. Interesting comments on how to add the fertiliser to the ponds. It seems it's best to make a kind of Yorkshire pudding mix and then put it in the water. Have you ever thought about suspending a ' bug light ' over the ponds ? It'll have to be on a strong wire rope cos you don't want to electrocute the fish if it blows down in a storm. An alternative is a car battery with some 12v bulbs. You'd have to keep re-charging the battery using this method though. The misses has used a bug light ( uv strip light ) before and I was amazed at how many bugs were caught every night. Another source of protein for the fish.

[tingtong]

i think that 25% protein feed costs around 395THB in KK (area).

[T_Dog]

Nice thread here. One thing that needs to be repeated is that a lot of the fry that are sold are sex reverse fish. They will not reproduce and since no energy is wasted on reproduction, they do indeed get to market size in about 9 months. If you get reproducing fish, they will not be very big in 9 months. We have some real monsters in our pond but no babies.

[ray23]

Nice thread here. One thing that needs to be repeated is that a lot of the fry that are sold are sex reverse fish. They will not reproduce and since no energy is wasted on reproduction, they do indeed get to market size in about 9 months. If you get reproducing fish, they will not be very big in 9 months. We have some real monsters in our pond but no babies.

Well I hope I didn't get any reproducing fish. 50 satang for the fry so not a major cost. The Lom turned out to be 7 baht a kilo so that's a go.

Pudding is pretty good description although I made it very watery. When i did that it started proucing almost instantly.

Sorrry about the cake my Communist brother in law ate the last piece

Doesn't the pond vegatation get in the way of catching the fish with a throw net?

If it is the same thing I'm thinking of it adds oxygen to the water as well. Things are progressing well. Went to our fish food supplier got a price of 280 baht a kilo on 15.5% as long a I buy ten at a time. We have storage room at our house that we can keep themn good a dry until we need them. That would be about a three month supply

I think I will continue with the Lom algae growth and the 15.5 % food and see how things go.

I really appreciate everyone thoughts. I don't know sales will go with these. lots of ponds around but none douing what I'm doing. We did the about the same with Cat Fish and those sold out quickly, Thai's really liked the taste of them. Just couldn't get them to leave them alone long engough to get any real weight on them. So tough to make money on them

[tingtong]

maybe just my observation, but there seem to be no pond vegetation, apart from the grass on the dikes. only once in a while the odd pakbung that try to make its way but the fish take care of its leaves quickly.

at least this is my situation.

[finnomick1]

Nice thread here. One thing that needs to be repeated is that a lot of the fry that are sold are sex reverse fish. They will not reproduce and since no energy is wasted on reproduction, they do indeed get to market size in about 9 months. If you get reproducing fish, they will not be very big in 9 months. We have some real monsters in our pond but no babies.

Well I hope I didn't get any reproducing fish. 50 satang for the fry so not a major cost. The Lom turned out to be 7 baht a kilo so that's a go.

Pudding is pretty good description although I made it very watery. When i did that it started proucing almost instantly.

Sorrry about the cake my Communist brother in law ate the last piece

Doesn't the pond vegatation get in the way of catching the fish with a throw net?

If it is the same thing I'm thinking of it adds oxygen to the water as well. Things are progressing well. Went to our fish food supplier got a price of 280 baht a kilo on 15.5% as long a I buy ten at a time. We have storage room at our house that we can keep themn good a dry until we need them. That would be about a three month supply

I think I will continue with the Lom algae growth and the 15.5 % food and see how things go.

I really appreciate everyone thoughts. I don't know sales will go with these. lots of ponds around but none douing what I'm doing. We did the about the same with Cat Fish and those sold out quickly, Thai's really liked the taste of them. Just couldn't get them to leave them alone long engough to get any real weight on them. So tough to make money on them

The duckweed is small enough that it will go through the holes in the net, that is if the fish don't devour it within minutes of you throwing it in. As I said, we try to grow as much of it as possible. We use any spare ponds that we don't have frogs in and we even use our tropical fish concrete circles to grow it then scoop it up in a net and throw it into the pla nin ponds. When I see a decent sized swamp cabbage plant ( pakbung ) I throw this in too. As tingtong says, the pla nin strip the leaves within a few days leaving just the stem system. Another plant we grow is paktobchawa. It grows rapidly and gives shade to the fish. The fish don't eat it which is perfect for us because we grow it to add to our mushroom growing medium. It's just like a sponge and retains moisture better than anything else we have come across. Before we catch the fish to sell, we pull all the paktobchawa out -- we've got to because the fish hide underneath it. I'm going to try the 16-20-0 to add more algae.

[ray23]

Well the cocktail is working dinner is served. Pond scum 50% protien

[ozzydom]

After about 8 years of Tilapia farming you just think you are getting a handle on things and something ,usually beyond your control jumps up to bite you on the bum.

Last year we had the tractor in and cleaned up and reshaped most of our ponds, we had an excellent year ,good growth and low mortality.

As we had the replacement stock already growing on in a section of pond we decided to catch the sales fish down as few as possible left in the ponds and leave any remaining to grow on another season.

Pond 1 was restocked with 6000 x 100gram fingerlings and two others with 2000 x 100-150 gram fingerlings each,on the last pond we noticed some baby fry so we decided to pump that pond and poison the fry.The sales Tilapia in that pond were 800gram average.

Now the first three ponds we restocked are way overstocked with baby Tilapia from breeding, we know from previous experience that this is going to retard growth and I am expecting a 50% lower return on last year.

A 400 gram Tilapia (mixed sex) will lay up to 100 -150 eggs but I was ignorant to the fact that a 1kg fish can lay up to 1000 eggs.

SOOO, now we have to go into crisis control,the fish have to go through the growth cycle to sales size now so all we can do is try to limit our losses by cost cutting.

I have decided to go with the practice of applying more Phosphate to the ponds to keep a heavy algael bloom going and cut out feeding propriety feed.This method is used in some countries where feed is not commercially available.

Last season we value added by growing on to minimum 1/2 kg before selling but this year we will probably have to start selling at 350-400 gram and lower our price a few baht.

Next season I will poison each pond as it sells out and restock as well as add a ratio of Barramundi at 1-20 to clean up any babies that appear.

[ray23]

Dom how long before the fry show up after stocking?

I might have the same problem not sure yet.

[ozzydom]

300-400 gram usually ray.

[finnomick1]

OD, if you introduce the barramundi to gobble up the tilapia fry, how long do you keep them in the ponds ? Do you have to remove them every time before you re-stock going on the theory that they would soon become a size that would eat the new stock.

I'm glad we cleared up that feed matter and I didn't jump in with both feet ( as per normal ). I found a stockist of TVO soya meal -- 70kg bag 1220 baht thank you very much. My wife had to pick me up off the floor. This stockist also had the widest variety of animal and fish feed I've come across. The cheapest with a protein content of 15.5% was 270 baht per 20kg sack, and the 30% protein was 440 per 20kg bag. Personally, I think the stockists around here are expensive but the factories won't supply us direct but then what's new ?

We went down to Jomtien for two days to put our apartment up for sale. I don't know about you, but we've been having monsoon rain every day for the past two weeks or more. Lucky it was only two days because the ponds rose over a metre and the nets had become partly submerged. Fortunately no fish lost. We've removed the nets which keep the white ibis ( or whatever they are ), eagles and kingfishers out so the fish are a bit exposed now. I hope the rain doesn't keep up much longer because we've only got 1 metre to go before the ponds overflow.

[ray23]

OD, if you introduce the barramundi to gobble up the tilapia fry, how long do you keep them in the ponds ? Do you have to remove them every time before you re-stock going on the theory that they would soon become a size that would eat the new stock.

I'm glad we cleared up that feed matter and I didn't jump in with both feet ( as per normal ). I found a stockist of TVO soya meal -- 70kg bag 1220 baht thank you very much. My wife had to pick me up off the floor. This stockist also had the widest variety of animal and fish feed I've come across. The cheapest with a protein content of 15.5% was 270 baht per 20kg sack, and the 30% protein was 440 per 20kg bag. Personally, I think the stockists around here are expensive but the factories won't supply us direct but then what's new ?

We went down to Jomtien for two days to put our apartment up for sale. I don't know about you, but we've been having monsoon rain every day for the past two weeks or more. Lucky it was only two days because the ponds rose over a metre and the nets had become partly submerged. Fortunately no fish lost. We've removed the nets which keep the white ibis ( or whatever they are ), eagles and kingfishers out so the fish are a bit exposed now. I hope the rain doesn't keep up much longer because we've only got 1 metre to go before the ponds overflow.

We have installed 8 inch drain lines below the top of the Pnds. Netted ever at pomnd side of the pipe. so the fish can't escape. We are at the beginning of the rainy season, might give it some thought

[ozzydom]

FM1,In our situation with multiple ponds which are caught out and sold in rotation ,I keep transferring the Barra to the last pond in the rotation, which means that by the time that pond is cleared,pond No.1 is already restocked with advanced fingerlings which are by then possibly 200-300 gram size.

I let my last Barramundi get to 5kg before hunger for a Barra fillet got the better of me.

Undoubtably the Barra will gobble down a few of your stock just as they eat each other,but the ratio ensures that most of your Pla Nin survive.Barra are ambush hunters so keeping your pond clear of weed and other hiding places for them to hide gives the Pla Nin a better chance.

Of course the 200 baht kg you can get for Barra eases the pain.

Pleased to see you sourced the soy bean meal.

You will note that by using 30% protein feed you can provide the same protein in 1 bag as you will in two bags of 15.5% thus saving 100 baht.

So by feeding the normal amount ,but only once a day,the fish get the same amount of protein but at a nice saving to the wallet.

Floating net setups is your answer where you get large rises in water levels,these are great for large bodies of water which because of the layout cannot be fitted with overflow pipes.

They use 200 litre plastic drums and either bamboo or galvanised pipe framework, the hapas are simply suspended from the floating frames, they are great because they give access to two sides of the hapa without getting your feet wet.

[patongphil]

OD I have a pond of about 2/3 rai which I stocked with about 800 tilapia and about 600 java barb along with about 200 odd catfish, 50 odd climbing perch and a few spotted featherback. Needless to say the tilapia have bred like mad things. I am not looking at any commercial sales etc only for my own enjoyment and few fish to eat. Anyway I am looking at putting a few predator fish in the pond to control the tilapia. I have easy access to snakehead which I catch regulalry around the area but am scared if I put a few in the pond I will end up with no other fish in some period of time. Other option is to source barramundi. Your thoughts please??? I am in the Maha Sarakham area by the way.

[Jotham79]

Snakehead fish will help, you can purchase the exact size you need, and they bring a nice price at market. I''ve had them in my general purpose pond for years and notice no ill effects. The down side is they are difficult to get out and they can play hell with new fry if you don't rear them up to a few inches before stocking.

[ozzydom]

Patongphil, it sounds like you put in mixed sex Tilapia.

Nam Sai Farms at Prachinburi supplies Barra fry ,they usually have advanced fingerlings also ,these are not cheap (4.5 baht each)but mortality in Barra fry can be high so I prefer to go that way.You would only need about 300 .