Red Shirts Want An End To Military Coups: Thida

[MILT]

The power hungry shinawatts, red shirts, need to stop being dumb asses then there would be no reason for a coup. I believe the last thing the military wants to do is another coup. The last coup was to protect the monarchy pure and simple and they achieved that for the time being.

[jayboy]

Deadbeat old Stalinists never die. They may have abandoned their allegiance to the failed USSR, but their Stalinist method endures.

In Thida's case that would be abandoning the Thai organised working class for the lumpen proletarian thuggery of the red (no relation) movement.

Not to put too fine a point of it she is now no more or less than a running dog for Thaksin. Her message is that he needs her and she thinks she is still hot enough for Thaksin's attentions. As she is now reminding him.

Running dog for Thaksin? Hmm.Let's see.

I wonder what you think her real agenda is.Even accepting your comment "lumpen proletarian thuggery", that's surely a means not an end in itself.What the objective?

Somewhere she may be justifying to herself and former comrades that she is following a left-wing trajectory and in old CP parlance that would mean a commitment to a stages theory. First Thaksin, then us. Unfortunately the 'us' is no more the Thai working class and is instead an unstable alliance of the petty-bourgeois, north-eastern agricultural workers and the lumpen proletariat. Her forces are neither hers, nor organised or united by a set of class demands. Only the return of Thaksin. In short it doesn't really matter what her objectives are. If Thaksin returns he will swat her away like a fly if it suits him and since Thaksin's primary objective is to secure control of the army, if/when that is achieved, her usefulness will be marginal at best. At present she may perform some useful role in bringing the 'left' (whatever that means) into line and the forum red supporters who still think they are lining up behind a bourgeois-democratic revolution in progress, but that's about it. Thida a dustbin of history with a new battery gratis Thaksin.

Thanks.Interesting post though I'm intrigued you use the language of the dialectic when clearly you have no truck with commie ideology.Perhaps you may feel as I do that Marxist analysis is sometimes quite useful as a tool.The unstable alliance you refer to I suggest contains rather more elements than you list and in any case some of them (eg NE agricultural workers) are no longer a monolithic block.

[Buchholz]

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

Can you please present the evidence of your accusation? The Dems and DSI failed dismally to pin anything on Thaksin relating to the protests.

How has anyone failed?

The trial is yet to occur and that is when pinning or not pinning will occur.

.

[GentlemanJim]

Thida is probably the most dangerous woman in Thailand. She is a Maoist/Communist through and through and must dream at night of "The People's Republic of Thailand".

It tells a lot about a persons rational thought processes when you listen to analogies that they use

Even if Thaksin died today, or if we put Thaksin in a space capsule and shot it out of the Earth

???

It begs the pun ridden response of "what Planet is she on'!

[h90]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

I have some sympathy with your view here.The problem however was that the unelected elites would not accept the wishes of the Thai people expressed at the ballot box, hence the military coup, army meddling in politics, judicial intervention (making fair use of the law and courts unworkable) etc etc.Therefore it was not feasible simply to buckle down to peaceful campaigning and work on winning the next election.Cynically one might argue the entrenched unelected elites and their nervous middle class hangers on needed a bit of a shock to discourage further interference in the democratic process.The fire next time etc.

fair use of the law and courts??

What is fair use of the laws in cases of corruption?

[bigbamboo]

"Whoever takes the people's side is on our side. If you reject military coups, you are one of us," she said.

I would suggest that there would be a quite a few that are on the people's side and reject military coups but that do NOT support the red shirts.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

All this talk of 'reds' and 'the party' sounds like a worrying blast from the past doesn't it.

[yoshiwara]

Deadbeat old Stalinists never die. They may have abandoned their allegiance to the failed USSR, but their Stalinist method endures.

In Thida's case that would be abandoning the Thai organised working class for the lumpen proletarian thuggery of the red (no relation) movement.

Not to put too fine a point of it she is now no more or less than a running dog for Thaksin. Her message is that he needs her and she thinks she is still hot enough for Thaksin's attentions. As she is now reminding him.

Running dog for Thaksin? Hmm.Let's see.

I wonder what you think her real agenda is.Even accepting your comment "lumpen proletarian thuggery", that's surely a means not an end in itself.What the objective?

Somewhere she may be justifying to herself and former comrades that she is following a left-wing trajectory and in old CP parlance that would mean a commitment to a stages theory. First Thaksin, then us. Unfortunately the 'us' is no more the Thai working class and is instead an unstable alliance of the petty-bourgeois, north-eastern agricultural workers and the lumpen proletariat. Her forces are neither hers, nor organised or united by a set of class demands. Only the return of Thaksin. In short it doesn't really matter what her objectives are. If Thaksin returns he will swat her away like a fly if it suits him and since Thaksin's primary objective is to secure control of the army, if/when that is achieved, her usefulness will be marginal at best. At present she may perform some useful role in bringing the 'left' (whatever that means) into line and the forum red supporters who still think they are lining up behind a bourgeois-democratic revolution in progress, but that's about it. Thida a dustbin of history with a new battery gratis Thaksin.

Thanks.Interesting post though I'm intrigued you use the language of the dialectic when clearly you have no truck with commie ideology.Perhaps you may feel as I do that Marxist analysis is sometimes quite useful as a tool.The unstable alliance you refer to I suggest contains rather more elements than you list and in any case some of them (eg NE agricultural workers) are no longer a monolithic block.

'Commie' is really a general term of abuse rather than understanding (conflates everything on the hard left). Understanding class forces in any national/international context is I agree useful, but the biggest mistake made by those who like to think of themselves on the left is to throw themselves on to the side of the Thaksin forces. Monolithic block doesn't mean much. However the Stalinist support for a Popular Front (bloc) chimes in with what Thakin needs tactically. The fact that popular frontism has been a historical disaster passes by the soft left adherents. They just see the word 'popular'. Hopeless.

[bigbamboo]

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

Can you please present the evidence of your accusation? The Dems and DSI failed dismally to pin anything on Thaksin relating to the protests.

How has anyone failed?

The trial is yet to occur and that is when pinning or not pinning will occur.

.

What's the point? Thaksin never shows up in court to face charges anyway!

[h90]

If they have 10 million supporter why did they need massive vote buying to get Thaksins clone elected?

I thought people would elect them for free and isn't vote buying undemocratic.

In the election before last, they even bribed voters in constituencies where they ran unopposed.

They cheated in elections where they were the only candidate.

almost as if it just innate for them that they cheat.

The usual suspects just can't bring themselves to admit openly the government has an electoral mandate, despite the endorsement of all independent electoral organisations, international observers and opposition parties including the Democrats.I guarantee they will not without prevarication or deliberate evasion say while there was certainly vote buying and irregular practices, actually across all parties though I'm not making an issue of that now, but it did not make a material difference to the final outcome.They just can't do it.

So vote buying does not make a difference....how nice from Mr. Thaksin to hand out some billions, even they don't make a difference.....

Beside that vote buying is not across all parties and even if it wouldn't make it any better.

An election with massive vote buying isn't democratic and your hero Thaksin is the worst one and all his time in power he did it.

So there is no electoral mandate. And if there would be these super rich elites than why didn't they try to buy the votes?

It is simple because Thaksin is the only rich power hungry elite, here.

[Crushdepth]

Thida and her comments are no more than the ramblings of a deadbeat old Communist who has lost the plot and knows that she isn't going to get a slice or even a crumb of Thaksins cake.Or in fact a slice or even the crumbs of anyone else's cake either.

Normally wouldn't comment on this kind of ignorant and insulting drivel but perhaps worth pointing out that what are described as "deadbeat old Communists" (most of whom like Thida have long abandoned that ideology) saved the country in 1973 and 1976, indeed were regarded as national heroes by all but the unelected elite, the brutalised army and their paid murdering thugs.

Yeah well you are pretty good at the ignorant and insulting drivel yourself. If you want to garner support for your bonehead ideology, not behaving like an arsehol_e might be a good start.

[rixalex]

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

Can you please present the evidence of your accusation? The Dems and DSI failed dismally to pin anything on Thaksin relating to the protests.

How has anyone failed?

The trial is yet to occur and that is when pinning or not pinning will occur.

.

What's the point? Thaksin never shows up in court to face charges anyway!

Indeed.

And whether or not anything ever gets proven, be interested to know if Mr birdpoo seriously is of the belief that Thaksin bears no responsibility for the events on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010.

[jayboy]

If they have 10 million supporter why did they need massive vote buying to get Thaksins clone elected?

I thought people would elect them for free and isn't vote buying undemocratic.

In the election before last, they even bribed voters in constituencies where they ran unopposed.

They cheated in elections where they were the only candidate.

almost as if it just innate for them that they cheat.

The usual suspects just can't bring themselves to admit openly the government has an electoral mandate, despite the endorsement of all independent electoral organisations, international observers and opposition parties including the Democrats.I guarantee they will not without prevarication or deliberate evasion say while there was certainly vote buying and irregular practices, actually across all parties though I'm not making an issue of that now, but it did not make a material difference to the final outcome.They just can't do it.

So vote buying does not make a difference....how nice from Mr. Thaksin to hand out some billions, even they don't make a difference.....

Beside that vote buying is not across all parties and even if it wouldn't make it any better.

An election with massive vote buying isn't democratic and your hero Thaksin is the worst one and all his time in power he did it.

So there is no electoral mandate. And if there would be these super rich elites than why didn't they try to buy the votes?

It is simple because Thaksin is the only rich power hungry elite, here.

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

[whybother]

This topic is about coups, not Thaksin, red shirts, yellow shirts or whatever, and the simple answer is that no military government has ever successfully run a country, just look at North Korea or Myanmar for example. The mindset that wins battles and wars is not that which can solve economic and social problems and handle international relationships.

I believe the Thai generals have come to realise this, they realise that proxy military governments like the previous Abhisit government is not the way to go. The same is true of China to a degree, in both cases it is a step in the direction of democracy, it is a very weak democracy where before there was none. Democracy does not arise overnight, many western nations are still struggling with the concept, some are clearly moving backwards from this goal. It is not reconciliation that is needed, countries like the UK and USA are very divided politically, but they accept the democratic process, Thailand has to learn to do the same.

I think you'll find that this topic about red shirts as well as coups. It also mentions Thaksin.

[jayboy]

Thida and her comments are no more than the ramblings of a deadbeat old Communist who has lost the plot and knows that she isn't going to get a slice or even a crumb of Thaksins cake.Or in fact a slice or even the crumbs of anyone else's cake either.

Normally wouldn't comment on this kind of ignorant and insulting drivel but perhaps worth pointing out that what are described as "deadbeat old Communists" (most of whom like Thida have long abandoned that ideology) saved the country in 1973 and 1976, indeed were regarded as national heroes by all but the unelected elite, the brutalised army and their paid murdering thugs.

Yeah well you are pretty good at the ignorant and insulting drivel yourself. If you want to garner support for your bonehead ideology, not behaving like an arsehol_e might be a good start.

I'm sorry.There was no intention to offend but your comments on Khun Thida were completely out of line, and not at all well informed.

[h90]

Then do you accept that this government is entirely legitimate and that, notwithstanding some irregularities, was fairly elected by the Thai people?"

I accept that have been legitimately elected.

Where have I said they weren't?

.

No they were not legitimately elected. The election was full of problems. Massive vote buying. The Democrats could not campain in many red cities etc etc.

Most probably PTP would have also won in a legitimately election due to the weak performance of Abhisit.

But would have won is not won.

The big fail of the military government an the constitution is weak punishment. If there would be immediately jail terms, ban for life and freezing of all bank accounts connected Thailand would be a better country now

[creck]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

[birdpooguava]

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

Can you please present the evidence of your accusation? The Dems and DSI failed dismally to pin anything on Thaksin relating to the protests.

How has anyone failed?

The trial is yet to occur and that is when pinning or not pinning will occur.

.

So why didn't you mention that to Cdepth when he made his accusation?

[h90]

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

There were massive vote buying or there were not? Tell me!

Is an election where 3/4 of the people are approached with money offers for voting the "right" party democratic or not democratic in your opinion?

If the Democrats would go around in the North and North East and just double what Thaksin pays and than win the election, would you also agree that it is perfect democratic or is it only OK if the party you like wins?

[h90]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

It must be also pointed out that the government took the streets with arms after several people were shot from the red shirts.

[jayboy]

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

There were massive vote buying or there were not? Tell me!

Is an election where 3/4 of the people are approached with money offers for voting the "right" party democratic or not democratic in your opinion?

If the Democrats would go around in the North and North East and just double what Thaksin pays and than win the election, would you also agree that it is perfect democratic or is it only OK if the party you like wins?

Vote buying is wrong whoever is responsible, as are other electoral irregularities.However no serious source argues that the last election in Thailand was unfair or unrepresentative overall.Your earlier post taking a different view is typical of a discredited extremist camp that hates the idea of genuine democracy.

[birdpooguava]

And whether or not anything ever gets proven, be interested to know if Mr birdpoo seriously is of the belief that Thaksin bears no responsibility for the events on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010.

He was inexorably linked by the fact they were rightfully protesting about his illegal deposition as PM.

[philw]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

True, but some don't like to hear that.

The truth offends somehow.

[philw]

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

There were massive vote buying or there were not? Tell me!

Is an election where 3/4 of the people are approached with money offers for voting the "right" party democratic or not democratic in your opinion?

If the Democrats would go around in the North and North East and just double what Thaksin pays and than win the election, would you also agree that it is perfect democratic or is it only OK if the party you like wins?

They tried and failed.

[mca]

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

There were massive vote buying or there were not? Tell me!

Is an election where 3/4 of the people are approached with money offers for voting the "right" party democratic or not democratic in your opinion?

If the Democrats would go around in the North and North East and just double what Thaksin pays and than win the election, would you also agree that it is perfect democratic or is it only OK if the party you like wins?

One would have thought that with all the "massive vote buying" the Dems would be shouting it from the rooftops to undermine the legitimacy of the government. After all as is oft pointed out here they are the supposed checks and balances for the PTPs actions. Have they uttered a dicky bird?

Edited May 6, 2012 by mca

[birdpooguava]

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

There were massive vote buying or there were not? Tell me!

Is an election where 3/4 of the people are approached with money offers for voting the "right" party democratic or not democratic in your opinion?

If the Democrats would go around in the North and North East and just double what Thaksin pays and than win the election, would you also agree that it is perfect democratic or is it only OK if the party you like wins?

One would have thought that with all the "massive vote buying" the Dems would be shouting it from the rooftops to undermine the legitimacy of the government. After all as is oft pointed out here they are the supposed checks and balances for the PTPs actions. Have they uttered a dicky bird?

The pot doesn't dare call the kettle black.

[whybother]

And whether or not anything ever gets proven, be interested to know if Mr birdpoo seriously is of the belief that Thaksin bears no responsibility for the events on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010.

He was inexorably linked by the fact they were rightfully protesting about his illegal deposition as PM.

I didn't realise that resigning as PM (which is what Thaksin did) was illegal.

[siampolee]

Thida Thavornseth, the 66-year-old retired microbiologist who leads Thailand's United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, more commonly known as the "Red Shirts," plans to train an army of 100,000 election volunteers to guarantee the honesty of the July 3 election.

"We want everything to be OK, we want everything to be clear," she says. "It is important that Thai society have a good election. We are going to check everything, for every party, to be sure there is no corruption."

http://illinoisredshirts.blogspot.com/

It seems as if she failed in that particular mission as well.

I find it absolutely amazing that some of the characters here can still swallow blindly the old Communist rhetoric.

[whybother]

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

I think you forgot about pouring blood, storming parliament, and storming Thaicom ... and then using grenades and an armed militia. Once they'd done all that, then they burnt things down.

[creck]

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

I think you forgot about pouring blood, storming parliament, and storming Thaicom ... and then using grenades and an armed militia. Once they'd done all that, then they burnt things down.

It is true that there were some snipers on both sides before the Army in APCs and battledress took to the streets against a mainly peaceful demonstration. There is no way, you can compare the redshirts actions before that, with the how the army behaved.

I accept that the redshirts were not blameless. Pity, they would have had a very strong case if they had been able to follow the example of the student lead demonstrations in Beijing rather than the example of the army on previous occasions in Bangkok.

Let’s face it, they knew from previous patterns of behaviour that the Army would attack them, and not with water cannons. I am not surprised they armed themselves.

[rixalex]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

Why not go the whole hog with this deluded nonsense and argue that it wasn't the red shirts who burnt things down. Deary me....