Meeting With Prem 'Only For Show': Interview With Chamlong

[webfact]

Meeting with Prem 'only for show'

Chamlong

BANGKOK: -- People's Alliance for Democracy co-leader Chamlong Srimuang was a secretary to Gen Prem Tinsulanond when Prem was prime minister. After Yingluck Shinawatra's recent visit to Privy Council President Prem, Nation News's Attaphom Ongkulna spoke to Chamlong.

Do you see any similarities between the current political situation and that before the military coup in 2006?

There are some similarities. There are incidents that make people feel that the government can no longer run the country - the control of the executive, legislative and judicial branches. The longer it goes on the more troubled people are.

People are waiting to see when the PAD will make a move and call a protest and what they will oppose. First, it could be about something that affects the throne. Second, it could be the passing of legislature that would aid Thaksin Shinawatra to absolve him from his crimes or to grant amnesty to those who shoot soldiers and burn buildings.

Third, when people feel they can't bear it any longer, they will come out on the street again. If it's not necessary, we won't bother anyone. [but] If the reds get away with the damage they have caused, it would set an example. If votes can be bought in Parliament, any rich person can buy [power]. If amnesty is granted, the same behaviour will be repeated.

On the Constitution amendment, is it really the time to do it?

We must wait and see. There may be some complications but I might be wrong if I tried to be specific. The PAD never read the situation wrongly, however. It may be tough to protest on the streets - but if we have no choice then we will.

Will there be as many protesters? Some say the PAD is long finished.

We believe there might be more [protesters] in fact because things are getting worse after this government came to power. Also, most recently, red-shirt lawyers petitioned the Constitution Court to see if the lese majeste law was constitutional or not. This means they want it abolished and not just amended. Nobody knows until the situation is before us. There may be situations that would invite more people to protest. There are still many people who think they'll do whatever it takes to protect the throne. This is the indicator.

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

It won't have any impact. He is still the same. All five co-leaders are still well and nothing has weakened us. There may have been misunderstandings when the New Politics Party [contested the election] but everything is the same.

I am not over-estimating myself. We are cautious - that's why we're not saying how many will show up [if a protest is called]. It's like soldiers who won't consider if they are outnumbered when they have to go to battle. How else can they defend the country? Numbers aren't always the indicators [of success].

But society is talking about national reconciliation. Can reds, yellows reconcile?

We must ask whom are we asked to reconcile with. We are not angry at red shirts or any other groups but we protect the country from being damaged. It's too childish to think that we must attack those of a different political colour.

We can't return to the pre-2006 coup situation. We can't have reconciliation between law-breakers and law-abiders. Tell me, who is the PAD in conflict with, so that we need to reconcile? Reconciliation is only for feuding parties.

I am ready to go to court at any time for what is just. They claim that what happened after the military coup was unjust, then [they] don't respect the judicial process.

What's the PAD way for reconciliation?

Strict adherence to the laws. If a country can't impose law, then what's the use? What they called constructive dialogue I call dialogue that would lead to disaster [laughs]. It's good that we are like this without reconciliation and those who did wrong pay for it.

How do you see the fostering of good relations between the government and the Privy Council president?

I don't think it's working. Songkran falls on April 13 but they went to see [Prem] on April 26. How can they do this? It's just a PR stunt.

But Prem was receptive.

He did it out of courtesy as someone senior. If he didn't welcome [Yingluck] they would criticise him anew, saying he doesn't want reconciliation. I can attest to you however that Prem WON'T BE SWAYED because I used to be with him. He remembers and does not forget easily. Think about it, two years ago, they went to the front of his residence to hurl insults and the defamation cases [haven't progressed] anywhere yet and they say they now respect him? It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him.

Government people say things are changing, could reconciliation be happening?

Perhaps they realised they won't [achieve] it if they don't change. On that same day the reds gathered to remember those killed in 2010 - and the Akhad family wouldn't reconcile. Let me ask Thaksin this: 'Could you take it and say 'forget it' if your wife or children were shot to death?'

So the visit to Prem was a political tool?

Definitely. The reason is clear. Even now they say they won't kowtow to the amataya (elite).

Does the Pheu Thai electoral victory mean people want Thaksin?

No. It means they want money. I am not looking down and I admit that some honestly voted [for them] - but many voted because of money. Parliamentary dictatorship is not different from Hitler or Marcos.

So the PAD hasn't risen above Thaksin?

I don't look at the individual but look at what damage has been caused to the country. If I see him I will still consider him my younger brother as he called me elder brother every time. But politics is different ...

-- The Nation 2012-05-07

[sparebox2]

Jealous because he was not invited.

To be honest, who still remember Chamlong?

[Thai at Heart]

So the visit to Prem was a political tool?

Definitely. The reason is clear. Even now they say they won't kowtow to the amataya (elite).

Astonishing statement.

Pesky varmints, not understanding how the natural order of things around here should be?

[whybother]

So the visit to Prem was a political tool?

Definitely. The reason is clear. Even now they say they won't kowtow to the amataya (elite).

Astonishing statement.

Pesky varmints, not understanding how the natural order of things around here should be?

I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite.

[Thai at Heart]

So the visit to Prem was a political tool?

Definitely. The reason is clear. Even now they say they won't kowtow to the amataya (elite).

Astonishing statement.

Pesky varmints, not understanding how the natural order of things around here should be?

I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite.

The funny thing is, everyone has been running around forever saying that either the amataya don't exist or have ceased to relevant, or (absolutely mistakenly), that the Sinhawatras are part of the elite. It is pretty obvious that a lot of important people like the situation the way it is, and don't like anyone shaking the apple cart one bit.

Seems as though things have calmed down a bit, but the reality is that nothing stays the same forever, and the only thing inevitable is change of some sort. Whether it comes out to the absolute agreement of all involved is very unlikely, but a "negotiated" change is better than coups, massive civil protest and potentially civil war.

What I am pretty sure about is that all sides have a vested interest that goes way beyond "protecting" the country and I abhor this idea that the ideas of some are completely selfless and that all others are selfish.

[whybother]

The funny thing is, everyone has been running around forever saying that either the amataya don't exist or have ceased to relevant, or (absolutely mistakenly), that the Sinhawatras are part of the elite. It is pretty obvious that a lot of important people like the situation the way it is, and don't like anyone shaking the apple cart one bit.

Seems as though things have calmed down a bit, but the reality is that nothing stays the same forever, and the only thing inevitable is change of some sort. Whether it comes out to the absolute agreement of all involved is very unlikely, but a "negotiated" change is better than coups, massive civil protest and potentially civil war.

What I am pretty sure about is that all sides have a vested interest that goes way beyond "protecting" the country and I abhor this idea that the ideas of some are completely selfless and that all others are selfish.

I generally agree with what you're saying, except that the people that are complaining about the "elite" the most are not really doing much to change anything. Education is the key, and Thaksin did very little to improve it, and PTP are going backwards with it. They're not interested in educating people because they have the support of a lot of the poor. The more they are educated, the more that they ask questions. Questions are the last thing that this government wants.

[Thai at Heart]

The funny thing is, everyone has been running around forever saying that either the amataya don't exist or have ceased to relevant, or (absolutely mistakenly), that the Sinhawatras are part of the elite. It is pretty obvious that a lot of important people like the situation the way it is, and don't like anyone shaking the apple cart one bit.

Seems as though things have calmed down a bit, but the reality is that nothing stays the same forever, and the only thing inevitable is change of some sort. Whether it comes out to the absolute agreement of all involved is very unlikely, but a "negotiated" change is better than coups, massive civil protest and potentially civil war.

What I am pretty sure about is that all sides have a vested interest that goes way beyond "protecting" the country and I abhor this idea that the ideas of some are completely selfless and that all others are selfish.

I generally agree with what you're saying, except that the people that are complaining about the "elite" the most are not really doing much to change anything. Education is the key, and Thaksin did very little to improve it, and PTP are going backwards with it. They're not interested in educating people because they have the support of a lot of the poor. The more they are educated, the more that they ask questions. Questions are the last thing that this government wants.

Neither side is blameless in the issue of education. The first thing the army did after the coup was write itself an enormous budget increase.

http://www.atimes.co...a/LB26Ae01.html

Improving education is a non stop priority, and changes today will take 20 years to feed through the system.

I saw my son's "social' test, for 11 year olds and there genuinely was a multiple answer question "What should you do if you meet a pooyai on the street?", one of the answers to which was 'give an appropriate "wai"". All rather sad really. I don't presume that this part of the curriculum was cooked up in the last 9 months, and we have all heard about the questions in the Uni entrance exam.

It is precisely the untouchable technocrats within the system who are perpetuating some kind of social engineering on society who need to be shaken up and accept that harking back to some golden age is a nonsense. Thainess has become a noose around the neck of every student in the country. Every country has some kind of issues with its education system, but whilst other countries in the region are continuing apace to produce world class engineers, mathematicians, or scientists, Thailand is wasting its school time to make sure that people know the order of society and wai each other according to their position.

It is precisely this fear of change, or rebelliousness or freedom of thought that will continue to hold back the creativity and inspiration of Thailand's youth who are the future of the country. Of course I don't want anarchy, but building inspiration among young minds by definition needs so acceptance that the youth of today will inevitably see the world differently from the middle aged. The world waits for no one.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[scotbeve]

Delusional!!!

[phiphidon]

So the visit to Prem was a political tool?

Definitely. The reason is clear. Even now they say they won't kowtow to the amataya (elite).

Astonishing statement.

Pesky varmints, not understanding how the natural order of things around here should be?

I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite.

If that was the case then why did he say this

How do you see the fostering of good relations between the government and the Privy Council president?

I don't think it's working. Songkran falls on April 13 but they went to see [Prem] on April 26. How can they do this? It's just a PR stunt.

[whybother]

I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite.

If that was the case then why did he say this

How do you see the fostering of good relations between the government and the Privy Council president?

I don't think it's working. Songkran falls on April 13 but they went to see [Prem] on April 26. How can they do this? It's just a PR stunt.

Yes, in both cases, it's showing that it's "only for show".

[phiphidon]

Does The Nation know something that apparently the Judicial Sytem doesn't?

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

(Reuters) - A firebrand media mogul and leader of Thailand's royalist "yellow shirts" protest movement was jailed on Tuesday for 20 years for securities fraud, but immediately bailed on appeal.

The Criminal Court sentenced Sondhi Limthongkul, who led protests in 2005, 2006 and 2008 that undermined two elected governments led or backed by ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, to a total of 85 years in prison, but commuted the term twice to 20 years.......................

...................It was the fourth time that Sondhi, 64, the charismatic leader of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) had been jailed by a top court but released on bail pending appeals.

http://in.reuters.co...E81R0EQ20120228

Seems like the amataya is very much alive and kicking...............

Edited May 7, 2012 by phiphidon

[phiphidon]

I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite.

If that was the case then why did he say this

How do you see the fostering of good relations between the government and the Privy Council president?

I don't think it's working. Songkran falls on April 13 but they went to see [Prem] on April 26. How can they do this? It's just a PR stunt.

Yes, in both cases, it's showing that it's "only for show".

OK, you're obviously got your mind set in a certain way let's try this:

How on earth do you translate

"It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him."

into this

"I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite".

He's saying the exact opposite - they are appearing to kowtow to the elite but it's just for show, they are not sincere about it. Of course, that doesn't fit your viewpoint or argument so you try and spin it, badly.

[whybother]

OK, you're obviously got your mind set in a certain way let's try this:

How on earth do you translate

"It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him."

into this

"I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite".

He's saying the exact opposite - they are appearing to kowtow to the elite but it's just for show, they are not sincere about it. Of course, that doesn't fit your viewpoint or argument so you try and spin it, badly.

Maybe I should have said "they are pretending to kowtow to the elite".

[Thai at Heart]

OK, you're obviously got your mind set in a certain way let's try this:

How on earth do you translate

"It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him."

into this

"I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite".

He's saying the exact opposite - they are appearing to kowtow to the elite but it's just for show, they are not sincere about it. Of course, that doesn't fit your viewpoint or argument so you try and spin it, badly.

Maybe I should have said "they are pretending to kowtow to the elite".

Millions of wais are given every day through gritted teeth. Kowtowing in a political sense is a Chinese concept/word anyway, but I forget where we are.

Is is customary for a politician to meet with the privy council on their knees with head on the floor? Oh the power struggles of Thailand.

[phiphidon]

OK, you're obviously got your mind set in a certain way let's try this:

How on earth do you translate

"It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him."

into this

"I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite".

He's saying the exact opposite - they are appearing to kowtow to the elite but it's just for show, they are not sincere about it. Of course, that doesn't fit your viewpoint or argument so you try and spin it, badly.

Maybe I should have said "they are pretending to kowtow to the elite".

Well, that's a U turn in anybodies language, thank you.

[whybother]

Well, that's a U turn in anybodies language, thank you.

Hardly a "U turn". Just a clarification.

My initial statement was in response to Thai at Heart's "astonishing statement".

I don't see it as an "astonishing statement". It was a statement pointing out that the visit was just a "political tool", because they say that they won't kowtow to the elite, but they'll pretend to for political purposes.

[Thai at Heart]

Well, that's a U turn in anybodies language, thank you.

Hardly a "U turn". Just a clarification.

My initial statement was in response to Thai at Heart's "astonishing statement".

I don't see it as an "astonishing statement". It was a statement pointing out that the visit was just a "political tool", because they say that they won't kowtow to the elite, but they'll pretend to for political purposes.

I just found the language of "kowtow" very significant/interesting in this context. It certainly gives an indication of how Chamlong sees the situation.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[anterian]

When a Thai gives a wai, is it to the person or what that person represents? Prem is the senior adviser to the King, showing respect for that role is not the same as respect for the man.

[hellodolly]

OK, you're obviously got your mind set in a certain way let's try this:

How on earth do you translate

"It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him."

into this

"I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite".

He's saying the exact opposite - they are appearing to kowtow to the elite but it's just for show, they are not sincere about it. Of course, that doesn't fit your viewpoint or argument so you try and spin it, badly.

Maybe I should have said "they are pretending to kowtow to the elite".

Well, that's a U turn in anybodies language, thank you.

What the heck are you two talking about. Yingluck is only for show no matter what she does. And if to make it convenient for her to not do what she was elected to do they give her a helicopter with out night flying ability to dodge it.

[writeshack]

Does The Nation know something that apparently the Judicial Sytem doesn't?

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

(Reuters) - A firebrand media mogul and leader of Thailand's royalist "yellow shirts" protest movement was jailed on Tuesday for 20 years for securities fraud, but immediately bailed on appeal.

The Criminal Court sentenced Sondhi Limthongkul, who led protests in 2005, 2006 and 2008 that undermined two elected governments led or backed by ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, to a total of 85 years in prison, but commuted the term twice to 20 years.......................

...................It was the fourth time that Sondhi, 64, the charismatic leader of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) had been jailed by a top court but released on bail pending appeals.

http://in.reuters.co...E81R0EQ20120228

Seems like the amataya is very much alive and kicking...............

He appealed. It's pending.

[bigbamboo]

Does The Nation know something that apparently the Judicial Sytem doesn't?

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

(Reuters) - A firebrand media mogul and leader of Thailand's royalist "yellow shirts" protest movement was jailed on Tuesday for 20 years for securities fraud, but immediately bailed on appeal.

The Criminal Court sentenced Sondhi Limthongkul, who led protests in 2005, 2006 and 2008 that undermined two elected governments led or backed by ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, to a total of 85 years in prison, but commuted the term twice to 20 years.......................

...................It was the fourth time that Sondhi, 64, the charismatic leader of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) had been jailed by a top court but released on bail pending appeals.

http://in.reuters.co...E81R0EQ20120228

Seems like the amataya is very much alive and kicking...............

He appealed. It's pending.

At least Sondhi had the courage and decency to fight an appeal and not just run away..

[pastitche]

OK, you're obviously got your mind set in a certain way let's try this:

How on earth do you translate

"It's just about image making to mislead others, to make it appear as if General Prem is for reconciliation. And those who went there were not sincere in paying respect to him."

into this

"I think what he's saying is that they won't kowtow to the elite, but here they are kowtowing to the elite".

He's saying the exact opposite - they are appearing to kowtow to the elite but it's just for show, they are not sincere about it. Of course, that doesn't fit your viewpoint or argument so you try and spin it, badly.

Maybe I should have said "they are pretending to kowtow to the elite".

Well, that's a U turn in anybodies language, thank you.

What the heck are you two talking about. Yingluck is only for show no matter what she does. And if to make it convenient for her to not do what she was elected to do they give her a helicopter with out night flying ability to dodge it.

I would have thought that it was obvious what they were talking about and it had nothing whatsoever to do with night-flying equipment

[surangw]

Aren't all the public meetings ( including world leaders) all for show, its the private meetings and deals that count ?

[phiphidon]

Does The Nation know something that apparently the Judicial Sytem doesn't?

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

(Reuters) - A firebrand media mogul and leader of Thailand's royalist "yellow shirts" protest movement was jailed on Tuesday for 20 years for securities fraud, but immediately bailed on appeal.

The Criminal Court sentenced Sondhi Limthongkul, who led protests in 2005, 2006 and 2008 that undermined two elected governments led or backed by ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, to a total of 85 years in prison, but commuted the term twice to 20 years.......................

...................It was the fourth time that Sondhi, 64, the charismatic leader of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) had been jailed by a top court but released on bail pending appeals.

http://in.reuters.co...E81R0EQ20120228

Seems like the amataya is very much alive and kicking...............

He appealed. It's pending.

He may be appealing (well he's not by any stretch of the imagination but you know what I mean) but he is not appealing a suspended sentence. If he loses his appeal, if it ever comes to fruition, then he goes in the slammer 20 years, thats it.

[phiphidon]

Does The Nation know something that apparently the Judicial Sytem doesn't?

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

Seems like the amataya is very much alive and kicking...............

He appealed. It's pending.

At least Sondhi had the courage and decency to fight an appeal and not just run away..

When you've been jailed and bailed 4 times you just might want to chance your luck again eh?

[Buchholz]

He may be appealing (well he's not by any stretch of the imagination but you know what I mean) but he is not appealing a suspended sentence. If he loses his appeal, if it ever comes to fruition, then he goes in the slammer 20 years, thats it.

Surely the defendant will be exonerated when the amnesty bill passes through Parliament and all charges/convictions of these politically-motivated charges are dropped. He'll be a free man like all others the amnesty covers.

.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

At least Sondhi had the courage and decency to fight an appeal and not just run away..

When you've been jailed and bailed 4 times you just might want to chance your luck again eh?

If he hadn't have run away, another defendant would likely be in the double-digit numbers for jailing/bailing.

.

[Siam Simon]

Of course, the one aspect of this that everyone is missing is that the odious Chamlong would have been executed for high treason on more than one occasion had he been fairly subjected to Thai law .

[Siam Simon]

At least Sondhi had the courage and decency to fight an appeal and not just run away..

One thing that you will eventually learn about politics in Thailand is that very little happens "in front of camera".Nearly everything is negotiated with the"correct" people. This is the big mistake that Thaksin made first time round: He thought he could fob-off and bypass certain players. What we are seeing with the current elected government is assorted overtures to rectify those mistakes. I suspect they will be.quite successful because all the people that matter want it.

[dekbahnnok]

Does The Nation know something that apparently the Judicial Sytem doesn't?

Sondhi Limthongkul faces a suspended sentence and may not be able to lead the protest, will this affect the PAD leaders?

(Reuters) - A firebrand media mogul and leader of Thailand's royalist "yellow shirts" protest movement was jailed on Tuesday for 20 years for securities fraud, but immediately bailed on appeal.

The Criminal Court sentenced Sondhi Limthongkul, who led protests in 2005, 2006 and 2008 that undermined two elected governments led or backed by ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, to a total of 85 years in prison, but commuted the term twice to 20 years.......................

...................It was the fourth time that Sondhi, 64, the charismatic leader of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) had been jailed by a top court but released on bail pending appeals.

http://in.reuters.co...E81R0EQ20120228

Seems like the amataya is very much alive and kicking...............

He appealed. It's pending.

Chalerm Yoobumroog's son shot Sondi's son in the head in a disco....his other son shot a police officer in the face....now he is pushing for the amnesty to help the country reconcile?