Indefinate Leave To Remain

[bobrussell]

I should have said the course must include citizenship materials!

It is up to the college and tutor to decide if they can sign/certify the required letter on completion of the course so it is important to find out in advance if this is the case.

I have never heard of the UKBA questioning this aspect of the application unless concerned about the college status.

[7by7]

Thaigirllondon, yes, of course you would, or should, pass an exam in your BA subject plus any other subject which you have STUDIED!

But a subject which you have never studied? Even someone of your social standing would have difficulty with that.

Thongkorn and Bob, an ESOL with citizenship course and an ESOL with skills for life course are essentially the same thing and both are acceptable to the UKBA; with the usual caveats.

[7by7]

Imagine if Farang had to study a life in thai course that even I couldn't answer (I am educated to Master degree level).....there would be an million threads complaining. You would all be making mountains out of mountains (not mole hills because the problem would be a big one).

I know it's been a while since the above, but I'm having a quiet day.

The point of this being that a Thai married to a Brit can obtain a UK spouse visa, move to the UK, obtain ILR and then British citizenship in just three years. All they really need to do so is be able to support and accommodate themselves without claiming public funds and pass a simple exam or an even simpler course.

The requirements for a foreigner to get permanent residence in Thailand are much harder and more complicated. Too complicated to list here.

See Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration

Not only are the requirements harder but, unlike the UK, the Thai government sets an annual quota for each nationality; so even if someone meets all the requirements they could still be refused because that years quota for their country has been filled.

On retirement my wife and I will be moving permanently to Thailand, we already own a house there (or rather my wife does, I'm a foreigner and so not allowed to own land: unlike foreigners in the UK). How long, I wonder, will it take me to obtain permanent residence in Thailand, let alone Thai citizenship? A lot longer than 3 years, I'm sure. If at all!

Meanwhile I will have to report to the MFA every 90 days to show that I am still acceptable enough to live in Thailand. How often do Thais living in the UK have to report to the UKBA until they have ILR? Never. (Not counting any FLR applications made for what ever reason.)

Do I, or other foreigners living or planning to live in Thailand, moan and complain about how hard and unfair it is? No. (OK, maybe some do; but they are in a very small minority.) We just accept that those are the rules set by the Thai government and get on with life.

Link and information on Thai PR obtained via Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Billmont]

I tend to agree with most posts that say that the test is easy. Yes there is a lot to learn but the exam is a multi choice answer system and after studying the book the answers become obvious. In addition to the Government book I purchased an online question and answer guide which my wife found very useful and overall it did teach her to read. I think the Internet Guide had something likie 90 sets of questions and are taken from actuals exam papers. Most Thai girls, irrespective of education are quite clever and learn quickly once they are determined to do so. The original poster states that they want to remain in the UK for 5 years so it is definitely worth the effort to both of you. I studied together with my wife and after about a couple of weeks she did it on her own and only occasionaly asked for help. In the end she could pass all the 90 sets of questions with ease but she did spend about 2 hours each day for about a month and passed the exam easily. These online tests also got her familiar with answering the questions with the computer as per the actual exam. The ILR is the first and only hurdle and once you have the Life in the UK certificate you just need to collect some documents and the ILR is just about guaranteed. Then after a further 12 months she can apply for a British Passport so a total of 3 years in all and your wife will have British Citizenship. My wife did this in just about exactly 3 years and also passed her UK driving test during this time, everything first time. While we now live in Thailand we return to the UK every year, she exits Thailand using her Thai Passport and enters the UK on her British Passport, leaves the UK with her British Passport and enters Thailand with her Thai passport. It has made life very easy for her and I am the one who has to jump through the hoops to stay in Thailand. I agree with the poster said that the Information you have to learn is not taught to children in the UK but like most exams Life in the UK has little practical advantage and again like most exams you can forget most of what you have learned. In my opinion the LIfe in the UK method is the easiest way to get her ILR and it is just a means to an end, nothing more. She will learn English as she lives and possibly works in the UK but to learn English for an English exam is more difficult than learning enough to pass the Life in the UK test.

[Baerboxer]

Anyone who is applying for ILR needs to demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) unless they fall under one of the exceptions. See Knowledge of language and life in the UK.

The LitUK test is actually very easy, if one's English is good enough to understand the study materials and the test itself.

Learning all possible questions and their answers by rote is not the way to do it; would you do the same for a GCSE or other exam?

If one's English is not good enough to understand the study materials and the test then there is an alternative; an ESOL with citizenship course.

For more details, see Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK.

.

My English was bagofshite when I took the test, I was B1 level and of course passed but my English was not good. Yes, I could understand and keep up with conversations on some subjects but not very well and certainly not good enough to have a proper commicative life and marriage in the UK. I was ashamed in front of the Europeans. Thing is, when a Thai speak English at B1, everyone thinks they are great because of the poor standard of English in my country. In reality, B1 is very poor.

Also, I learnt all the materials by rote. Why? Because that's how Thais tend to learn at school even nowadays and also, its a good way to learn the materials. I approached it just as I did my maths exam, best to learn all by heart and tick the boxes than produce language. Afterall, most questions in the life in uk test are of no use for normal life in the UK. OK, many not most but certainly alot.

The Life in UK test doesn't help improve the language, its just to lern content (and not much use) so best to just pass and then learn English. As soon as I had passed, I applied for ILE and then when I arrived nearly two years ago, I started learning English and now I'd say its perhaps B2/C1. I don't know how anyone can live in a country which is not their native land and not learn the language. And the language of some Thais I meet is terrible, not even A2. How can they live with an English speaker only?

"My English was bagofshite when I took the test". In that case you did very well to pass the test. You might want to check the English content of your various postings here for mistakes. This is meant positively as you seem very keen to achieve a high standard of English.

[Baerboxer]

Well I was born and raised in the UK, consider myself reasonably educated, and just done an on-line test. Scored 50%!

And how much studying for it did you do beforehand?

I've said it before, and will say it again; in my opinion what is scandalous isn't that immigrants have to learn this stuff, but that British schoolchildren don't!

Yes they do. In state schools children study citizenship classes.

It would be very interesting to check a sample of British people - children and adults on this test. My wife passed first time several years ago. She already had very good English skills, a bachelor degree and several years teaching under her belt. She still put in many hours of study prior to the test. I tried some of the questions on a cross section of friends - 14 year olds up to 60. Hmmm, judging by the results 7by7 has a good point. Many just could not anwser basic questions about their countries history and constitution. The double negative questions, which do test English comprehension confounded many. This shows that the test is of a good standard and requires a level of English in order to study and prepare for it. 50% of the group who took the test with my wife passed. The test centre manager told me this was "about normal pass rate" at that time.

[Baerboxer]

Totally agree that ESOL is the better way forward. It takes longer, may cost more but it improves all sorts of other skills. My wife did a course and some very basic aspects of UK life (doctors visits, getting library books etc) were covered.

But if you wife had B1 English then it would be boring as watching the pain drying. Imagine if you spoke Thai but had to go to the class about ordering in a restaurant, going to the doctor.....so boring. But yes, I agree, for a Thai with a low level of English ESOL classes are better option and they will learn alot and improve confidence of speaking etc.

The Life in the UK test is a bit of a waste of time and I doubt many people have gained better English skills from it. I learnt a lot of facts about the UK that I did not know before, a few of them moderately interesting! It is not there to improve your English but test the level of your language skills.

Very true but life in UK study is not meant to help raise the English level, its not that kind of exam. And it is cetainly not to test Engloish level, not at all. My husband failed also but he's a Jordy so that has somethng to say about it :-)

The test has been carefully designed. It requires a certain level of English to understand the content material and to be able to answer the questions. The questions are worded to check the ability to understand Englsih as well as answer the specific question. So passing the test does show the respondent has a certain level of English; or very luck with their choice of answers! ESOL courses with citizenship have been established to cater for the needs of the people who do not have a sufficient level of English to begin with.

[Baerboxer]

That your husband couldn't pass merely shows that he had not studied

And logically that he is a little bit dumb. Becaus how can a professional English man, with good social standing fail an exam about life in UK BUT a poor Asian villager who may or may not have lived very long in the UK be expcted to pass.

Yes, yes I know its the law....but I think its a little bit silly.

As with any exam, preperation is required. If he didn't study beforehand it's unlikely he'd pass. This test is not an easy giveaway. But, the ESOL with citizenship route is an alternative that a poor Asian villager might find more acceptable.

My wife "coached" several other Thai ladies, all of whom had been in the UK longer than her, and failed there first attempts. Reason - they were too lazy to study hard or had not bothered to develop their English.

[Gillespie]

The test has very little to do with understanding British life and culture: it's to do with learning the "correct" responses by rote and regurgitating them on demand. So anyone who's been through the Thai education system ought to find it a breeze - although you can't buy an enhanced result with tea money.

[MikeOxtinks]

Anyone who is applying for ILR needs to demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) unless they fall under one of the exceptions. See Knowledge of language and life in the UK.

The LitUK test is actually very easy, if one's English is good enough to understand the study materials and the test itself.

Learning all possible questions and their answers by rote is not the way to do it; would you do the same for a GCSE or other exam?

If one's English is not good enough to understand the study materials and the test then there is an alternative; an ESOL with citizenship course.

For more details, see Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK.

Instead of applying for ILR, one could apply for Further Leave to Remain every two years, at a current cost of £561 by post or £867 in person, always going up each year by more than inflation. Furthermore, this and the last government have both talked about limiting the number of times someone can apply for FLR in order to stop people avoiding KOL by doing this.

Even if, like yourself, someone does not intend to remain in the UK indefinitely, remember that to apply for British citizenship and thus be able to travel to and from the UK at will one needs to have ILR and have satisfied KOL.

You need to take a look at the CH4 Documentary - "Make Bradford British" - link here [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL_v_lga-rM[/media]

The documentary takes random samples of British People and tries to understand how they integrate with each other in the city of Bradford - Almost 90% of everyone taking the ILR, which included JP's and various people from all sorts of walks of life FAILED the test!

It is broken down on Youtube into various different section - but well worth a watch!

If they are going to impose this on foreign wives of British Citizens, isn't it about time they started imposing it on of the Eastern europeans entering Britain for an "Everything Is Free Life" too?

Sorry, I think it absolutely stinks.

Edited May 20, 2012 by MikeOxtinks

[blades1889]

When the wife was going through hers I bought her the book to study, but was getting no where with it, so i booked her into some classes for an ESOL course.

The class was in sheffield and I think she attended for 8 weeks.

She was assesed at level 2 which she then had to move up a level to pass.

The cost was £5 per week and she could attend 3 times a week if she wanted.

After 2 weeks I think it was she was put in for her test (as my wife joined the group late on ) everyone in the group failed, the women teacher couldnt understand why, so I spoke to the women and she said she would assess the wife as if she was at level 1, which meant she had to move up to level 2.

She was assessed at level 2 from the start so it was a guaranteed pass.

I think around 6 weeks later she was put in for her test again and passed.

I think the test each time cost £40 - 50 cant remember.

Anyway, £40 for the 8 week classes and £40 - £50 each time for the test, around £140 for the lot,

Got the certificate, inside the ILR application and got the visa after 4 week

For me I would stay away from the life in uk test and go with the ESOL.

Some of the questions have nothing to do with getting the visa, its crazy

Lee

[MikeOxtinks]

Here is a good example - Any Brits out there - go on, do an honest test of this rubbish

http://www.hiren.inf...n-the-uk-test/1

I'd love to see some genuine scores without looking anything up on the internet by British citizens!!!! What a complete pile of claptrap!

You really have to laugh at the idiots that came up with some of these questions ! Page 2 Question 7 - "Where Does Santa claus Come From????????"

Answers -

South Pole

North Pole

Iceland

Poland!

I thought he wasn't real?????

How many Brits got this one?

How many members does The National Assembly for Wales have?

Or This...

It is common for people to call AGCEs as ______

A level

Tertiary level

S rank

University level

Why did Protestant Huguenots come to Britain in the 16th and 18th centuries?

The most common place to see children work is at ______

Community centres

Post offices

Schools

Supermarkets

Edited May 20, 2012 by MikeOxtinks

[7by7]

Some posts have been removed.

A reminder of the forum rules:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Next one earns the poster a holiday.

[7by7]

You need to take a look at the CH4 Documentary - "Make Bradford British"

The documentary takes random samples of British People and tries to understand how they integrate with each other in the city of Bradford - Almost 90% of everyone taking the ILR, which included JP's and various people from all sorts of walks of life FAILED the test!

I did watch it, thanks.

I have already said that what I find ridiculous isn't that immigrants have to learn this stuff; but that British schoolchildren don't!

If they are going to impose this on foreign wives of British Citizens, isn't it about time they started imposing it on of the Eastern europeans entering Britain for an "Everything Is Free Life" too?

EEA treaties would not allow it. The same EEA regulations which allow British pensioners to live without restriction in Spain.

BTW, there is no "Everything is Free Life" for EEA nationals in the UK; you shouldn't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail.

Here is a good example - Any Brits out there - go on, do an honest test of this rubbish

http://www.hiren.inf...n-the-uk-test/1

That has been linked to before. It is nothing to do with the UKBA or the British government but comes from the imagination of the two teenagers who run that site!

But, I will repeat: what I find ridiculous isn't that immigrants have to learn this stuff; but that British schoolchildren don't!

[Arkady]

For the sake of comparison Thailand introduced a Thai language test requirement for permanent residence applicants in around 2002. It started off as a childishly simple test with candidates having to point out a pictorial multiple choice answer to an aural question and was conducted by the applications staff at Immigration. A friend who cannot speak Thai at all passed in those early days because the questions were so obvious, e.g. what colours is the Thai flag? Today, while still not involving any written Thai, it has progressed to being an interview in front of a panel of senior members of the agencies that sit on the Immigration Commission. Questions today are likely to be like this, "Please explain what you believe is your contribution to Thai society?". That is not easy for most people, considering that, unlike English, Thai is not a language that is commonly taught in schools around the world. I know a few people who either understood but couldn't answer in Thai or couldn't even understand the questions. I don't know if these applicants have been rejected or not because, unlike the UK the process can take many years in Thailand and those who applied later than 2005 still haven't heard anything, unless they have real big shot connections. When I applied in the 90s, a senior immigration officer, who had been introduced to me, explained that they had a set of internal qualifications that were more stringent than the published ones which resulted in lots of applicants being rejected without ever understanding why. Some of them applied several times with the same result because they had no connections and no one had explained to them that they didn't meet the unofficial requirements. At least the UK system is more transparent, more predictable and subject to judicial review, unlike Thailand where there is no appeal because under the law PR is entirely up to the Interior Minister's discretion.

Applying for Thai citizenship is also a lengthy process with a lack of transparency and judicial review. Many applicants have been waiting for over 10 years without news. Since 2010 written tests in Thai are required in addition to the aural tests and panel interview. Thais applying for ILR and citizenship in the UK should count their lucky stars that the UK has such a straightforward, simple and transparent system compared to what their own government inflicts on foreigners.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Arkady