How Are You Hedging Against The Euro/Greek Crisis?

[ExpatJ]

Morning all

I was just wondering- have you made any changes in your investment portfolios as a result of the Greek crisis? Do you think Greece will in fact leave the Euro?

I sold all my Thai stocks about a month ago and i must say its liberating (though somewhat perverse) following CNBC and cheering on the falls in stock markets. I have also opened up a trading account in HK and Singapore and am currently researching top growth stocks to add to my Thai stocks watch list. There should be some ripe low hanging stocks to buy by the time this drama is over (or at least a temporary solution is applied by the EU).

I think the odds of Greece leaving the Euro are about 20/80 against at this time...

[Thailand]

I think Greece leaving the EU and the Euro is actually potentially good news for the community as it is likely Cyprus will follow suit and also leave.

As there will then be no objectors to Turkey joining the EU which will be beneficial to the EU both financially and militarily and a couple of the deadweights will be out of the way.

[terryp]

most people in the "Know" are liquidating everything; there are some mind blowing events coming along and electronic trading or property will be the last thing on peoples minds if it will even be possible (trading that is)

Just look over the past 3 months how many seriously wealthy people have sold their houses.. not to buy another..the sheep need to wake up & realize we are going thro a serious time that will change the World totally, i am not talking about prophesy.

All the Games in Europe/US and middle East are just diversions the real serious stuff is happening in plain sight, most people are so chemically dumbed down their brains are just about working or they just aint bothered

[farang000999]

putting everything into groupon

[doggie888888]

most people in the "Know" are liquidating everything; there are some mind blowing events coming along and electronic trading or property will be the last thing on peoples minds if it will even be possible (trading that is)

Just look over the past 3 months how many seriously wealthy people have sold their houses.. not to buy another..the sheep need to wake up & realize we are going thro a serious time that will change the World totally, i am not talking about prophesy.

All the Games in Europe/US and middle East are just diversions the real serious stuff is happening in plain sight, most people are so chemically dumbed down their brains are just about working or they just aint bothered

Before I really worry, who exactly are these people in the "Know"? And if they have sold their houses without replacing them, does this mean they have joined the Occupied movement in camping out in town squares? Or maybe I am one of the chemically downed down in need of enlightenment, so please do offer a few more details.

[yoshiwara]

It is the uncertainty that unsettles the markets. What we certainly have learned is that gold is no place of safety and liable to volatility with the rest of it. In fact is going down with the euro. So what to do? In the short term, dollars is the place of safety. If the OP has opened accounts in HK and Singapore he could do worse than park cash in HKD. If the $/SGD rate is worth looking at for a longer term park in SGD. Property in both places has proved to be price resilient and generate income on rental.

[ExpatJ]

It is the uncertainty that unsettles the markets. What we certainly have learned is that gold is no place of safety and liable to volatility with the rest of it. In fact is going down with the euro. So what to do? In the short term, dollars is the place of safety. If the OP has opened accounts in HK and Singapore he could do worse than park cash in HKD. If the $/SGD rate is worth looking at for a longer term park in SGD. Property in both places has proved to be price resilient and generate income on rental.

I disagree on the gold- although it has been falling and i was getting edgy of my gold holdings, i think the solution to the greek crisis will be QE in the US and Europe on a massive scale..i note also that this morning a number of blue chip investment houses incl. goldman sachs still see gold at 2000$ + in early 2013.

[yoshiwara]

It is the uncertainty that unsettles the markets. What we certainly have learned is that gold is no place of safety and liable to volatility with the rest of it. In fact is going down with the euro. So what to do? In the short term, dollars is the place of safety. If the OP has opened accounts in HK and Singapore he could do worse than park cash in HKD. If the $/SGD rate is worth looking at for a longer term park in SGD. Property in both places has proved to be price resilient and generate income on rental.

I disagree on the gold- although it has been falling and i was getting edgy of my gold holdings, i think the solution to the greek crisis will be QE in the US and Europe on a massive scale..i note also that this morning a number of blue chip investment houses incl. goldman sachs still see gold at 2000$ + in early 2013.

You may disagree, but until you get that hoped-for QE, you are in a place of volatility, not of safety.

Second, if you watch CNBC or Bloomberg you will have noted that even blue-chip investment houses disagree with each other.

[w11guy]

most people in the "Know" are liquidating everything; there are some mind blowing events coming along and electronic trading or property will be the last thing on peoples minds if it will even be possible (trading that is)

Just look over the past 3 months how many seriously wealthy people have sold their houses.. not to buy another..the sheep need to wake up & realize we are going thro a serious time that will change the World totally, i am not talking about prophesy.

All the Games in Europe/US and middle East are just diversions the real serious stuff is happening in plain sight, most people are so chemically dumbed down their brains are just about working or they just aint bothered

Laughable. Why would they sell their houses? Wealthy people have enough money to have a nice house and live in comfort. They don't worry about whether their house will drop in value. Yes things will get bad, but selling our homes isn't the solution. Where will we all live? And who will buy the houses if everyone sells? And who are these wealthy people in the know selling to? Other wealthy people not in the know?

Re-read what you wrote and then tell me if you seriously expect anyone to believe that you know people in the know and they shared this info with you so you could alert us folks on thai visa. Completely laughable.

[w11guy]

I'm buying Greek debt, as it has a truly fantastic interest rate.

[yoshiwara]

most people in the "Know" are liquidating everything; there are some mind blowing events coming along and electronic trading or property will be the last thing on peoples minds if it will even be possible (trading that is)

Just look over the past 3 months how many seriously wealthy people have sold their houses.. not to buy another..the sheep need to wake up & realize we are going thro a serious time that will change the World totally, i am not talking about prophesy.

All the Games in Europe/US and middle East are just diversions the real serious stuff is happening in plain sight, most people are so chemically dumbed down their brains are just about working or they just aint bothered

Laughable. Why would they sell their houses? Wealthy people have enough money to have a nice house and live in comfort. They don't worry about whether their house will drop in value. Yes things will get bad, but selling our homes isn't the solution. Where will we all live? And who will buy the houses if everyone sells? And who are these wealthy people in the know selling to? Other wealthy people not in the know?

Re-read what you wrote and then tell me if you seriously expect anyone to believe that you know people in the know and they shared this info with you so you could alert us folks on thai visa. Completely laughable.

Actually a lot of big money from Greece, Italy, Russia, China has moved in recent years to buy property in Central London prime areas. No evidence at all that the inflow of funds has suddenly reversed.

[Naam]

I think Greece leaving the EU and the Euro is actually potentially good news for the community as it is likely Cyprus will follow suit and also leave.

As there will then be no objectors to Turkey joining the EU which will be beneficial to the EU both financially and militarily and a couple of the deadweights will be out of the way.

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

[ExpatJ]

Fast moving news out of Europe this morning- Spanish, Italian bonds jumping, Greece's just past 30%, markets dropping. Italian Govt minister just announced that of course the Euro will survive if Greece exits. Seems to be a cashing out of equities by investors globally.

I have an appointment with CNBC tonight (my new mia noi).

[Thailand]

I think Greece leaving the EU and the Euro is actually potentially good news for the community as it is likely Cyprus will follow suit and also leave.

As there will then be no objectors to Turkey joining the EU which will be beneficial to the EU both financially and militarily and a couple of the deadweights will be out of the way.

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

Wow, what an enlightened response to a very possible scenario. Why did you bother?

[Naam]

I think Greece leaving the EU and the Euro is actually potentially good news for the community as it is likely Cyprus will follow suit and also leave.

As there will then be no objectors to Turkey joining the EU which will be beneficial to the EU both financially and militarily and a couple of the deadweights will be out of the way.

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

Wow, what an enlightened response to a very possible scenario. Why did you bother?

reason: enlightened response to an unenlightening comment.

[yoshiwara]

Fast moving news out of Europe this morning- Spanish, Italian bonds jumping, Greece's just past 30%, markets dropping. Italian Govt minister just announced that of course the Euro will survive if Greece exits. Seems to be a cashing out of equities by investors globally.

I have an appointment with CNBC tonight (my new mia noi).

er that would be Kelly Evans and Kayla Tausche

[Lancelot]

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

Naams been drinking again. But on the other hand maybe not...

[Thaddeus]

How Are You Hedging Against The Euro/Greek Crisis?

Personally, I've given up the search for an enjoyable donner kebab at an affordable price.

[mccw]

PMs while waiting to see how far the implications extend; good chance of a run on the banks across the pigs and as they go under a lot of other nations have serious trouble. I can easily imagine a freeze of all accounts and trading across the EU as they desperately try to stop total collapse. Only solution they will do is more money creation. So for sure I would not want euros. But how many cards could fall in this interconnected world is any ones guess. Money in any currency at any bank is a risk in my opinion. Physical PMs where I can see them can not be frozen. A revaluing of everything will probably take place; relatively up or down who knows but at least it can not disappear.

Maybe it's no so bad and Greece leaves and Europe hobbles along for another few years. Growing Asian consumer demand fuels a recovery in Europe and we're all hunky dorry? But then commodities aren't enough for everyone and inflation kills it; so back we are again in zee shizer.

Basically most people must get poorer and some people will get richer.

What are the rich going to do with their money when system is in constant state of near peril? Especially in the new money countries? Gold and property.

[mccw]

To finish after my side ramble. PMs first. Then as the dust looks to be settling, transfer some to snap up cheap property.

[rakman]

Actually a lot of big money from Greece, Italy, Russia, China has moved in recent years to buy property in Central London prime areas. No evidence at all that the inflow of funds has suddenly reversed.

Don't forget the rich French going to London and Canada.

[pipo1000]

Basically most people must get poorer and some people will get richer.

That is the only correct answer,there are too much average people with money.These days anyone above the age of 40 thinks about early retiring,something that wasn't imaginable 20 years ago.

Now think about that it is all a vicious circle that started 20+ years ago.People wanted to work less for more money,but they forgot it made consumer goods more expensive in the longer term.

As they earned more money,more people would invest money in the stock market,again making stock prices more expensive ( read over valued )

I'm not a communist and I would like everybody to be rich,but it just doesn't work in my opinion.

[mccw]

Basically most people must get poorer and some people will get richer.

That is the only correct answer,there are too much average people with money.These days anyone above the age of 40 thinks about early retiring,something that wasn't imaginable 20 years ago.

Now think about that it is all a vicious circle that started 20+ years ago.People wanted to work less for more money,but they forgot it made consumer goods more expensive in the longer term.

As they earned more money,more people would invest money in the stock market,again making stock prices more expensive ( read over valued )

I'm not a communist and I would like everybody to be rich,but it just doesn't work in my opinion.

Exactly.

People will learn that happiness is in your good deeds and meaningful connections in life, family, the simple things that society was once based; not the attainment of various unnessacary material illusions.

Or it's too far gone and worse social societal break down will occurre as the greedy peasants resort to crime and mayhem to get those trainers, TV, motorcycle etc etc like we saw in London or Bangkok not so long ago.

Probably a bit of both

I certainly wouldn't want to be in a city when there's a run on the banks.

[Naam]

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

Naams been drinking again. But on the other hand maybe not...

one has to judge my comment in context with the comment (Greece out / Turkey in) it was made.

[g00dgirl]

most people in the "Know" are liquidating everything; there are some mind blowing events coming along and electronic trading or property will be the last thing on peoples minds if it will even be possible (trading that is)

Just look over the past 3 months how many seriously wealthy people have sold their houses.. not to buy another..the sheep need to wake up & realize we are going thro a serious time that will change the World totally, i am not talking about prophesy.

All the Games in Europe/US and middle East are just diversions the real serious stuff is happening in plain sight, most people are so chemically dumbed down their brains are just about working or they just aint bothered

Laughable. Why would they sell their houses? Wealthy people have enough money to have a nice house and live in comfort. They don't worry about whether their house will drop in value. Yes things will get bad, but selling our homes isn't the solution. Where will we all live? And who will buy the houses if everyone sells? And who are these wealthy people in the know selling to? Other wealthy people not in the know?

Re-read what you wrote and then tell me if you seriously expect anyone to believe that you know people in the know and they shared this info with you so you could alert us folks on thai visa. Completely laughable.

w11guy, why would I sell my houses in Europe? I would end up with Euros and I would rather hold the properties, especially considering that they are located in my hometown.

The land and the houses will always have a value even if the currencies become worthless, I could live in the house and plant something to eat in the garden.

The current situation is the reason I decided not to sell any property, even though I am not living there most of the time and they are not suitable for renting them out.

I am also considering buying more land, agricultural land and businesses that have material assets such as machines, in addition to gold/silver. But this is easier said than done especially with the foreign business and land ownership restrictions in Thailand and without experience in agriculture.

It would also be an advantage to marry into a family with a lot of land holdings and an agricultural business I suppose.

Investing in knowledge and skills is another option.

[rakman]

I heard an anecdotal story that due to the tax rates and government regulations, there is an underground economy in Greece where the money really is. Apparently, the game is to avoid giving the government what it needs to pay people their pensions, but in the underground economy people are awash with money.

We'll see how it plays out. AK-47's anyone?

[thenervoussurgeon]

Well like most of us on thai visa ,i am doing absolutely nothing

[Naam]

How Are You Hedging Against The Euro/Greek Crisis?

looking whether ebay has some Greek slaves for sale at bargain prices.

[samran]

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

Naams been drinking again. But on the other hand maybe not...

one has to judge my comment in context with the comment (Greece out / Turkey in) it was made.

seriously though, as someone who knows nothing about it, what do you do with bond strategy at times like this?

[Naam]

and once Tadjikistan and Papua New Guinea join the EU and adopt the €UR then all remaining problems will be solved.

Naams been drinking again. But on the other hand maybe not...

one has to judge my comment in context with the comment (Greece out / Turkey in) it was made.

seriously though, as someone who knows nothing about it, what do you do with bond strategy at times like this?

bond strategy

-sell European and U.S. financials except the extremely sound ones on who's background check you have devoted a lot of time and which you check daily and buy or increase some "medium sound" financial debtors which are country systemic (government intervention highly likely) which yield 8-13% on their subordinated Tier1 and LT2 bonds.

-buy, respectively increase at bargain prices high yield / high risk bonds of non-financial debtors which are hammered in times like these but provide double digit current yields (forget any yields to maturity!) and balance risk with appropriate heaps of cash (USD, EUR, GBP, CAD, JPY, SGD) even though cash in these currencies provide zero yield on overnight basis.

-if you don't trust your bank with too much cash park your cash in short term (3-6mth) UST, Bunds, Gilts or JGB.

-sell, respectively avoid high yield currencies such as (BRL, TRY, ZAR, AUD, NZD) which are always hammered in a crisis.

-if you can afford it, compensate your frustration of being only partly invested by spending a fistful million Baht on that car you wanted to own since you were a schoolboy.