Bangkok-Chiang Mai High Speed Rail Ready By 2018: Transport Ministry

[ginjag]

It took 3 years to widen and pave 4km of Thappraya Road between Pattaya and Jomtien. How in the world will this ever happen in 6 years?

You jest, surely? it was more like 5 years

are you both sure--I think 6 the same as the train line -but it will NOT be built. it's not viable. not for a few Family members, and MP's on w/e adventures. These North western cities really are best flying to-suggest Air Asia 1 and a 1/2 hours, and cheaper .

[IsaanUSA]

I would just like to see the plan...stations and routes.

As an American I'm excited for any high speed rail since we don't have it in my home country (well okay there is one line).

[tranquillize]

Looking forward to this.

[garrya]

It took 3 years to widen and pave 4km of Thappraya Road between Pattaya and Jomtien. How in the world will this ever happen in 6 years?

You jest, surely? it was more like 5 years

are you both sure--I think 6 the same as the train line -but it will NOT be built. it's not viable. not for a few Family members, and MP's on w/e adventures. These North western cities really are best flying to-suggest Air Asia 1 and a 1/2 hours, and cheaper .

When you talk about flights you should take many other things into account such as getting to airport, check-in, waiting for take off, airborne, check out, getting into town. The combined figure would be around 5 hours from BKK to CM.

[robint]

someone is having a giraff here. no economic justification of multibillion dollar project to shinawatraburi unless there's a mountain of copper there like the tanzam railway

just shows what low calibre press you have - bunch of wild kids in a playground

Oh btw does anyone remeber the Khorat airport built at the urging of an influential person - 30 kms outside of the city, no transport, not even taxis. Thai ran it for a while and you could get a ticket for 500b from bkk so it was cheaper than the bus(120B) but you were in the middle of nowhere and it only suited me cos I had an OH who would collect with our pickup

lots of staff milling around picking their noses and few passengers on the twice a day schedule

what a joke

Thai closed it after humungous losses

Does that tell you something

bit like the Buriram airport near 40 mins drive away. I used that once, never again. I flew on a museum piece turbo prop japanese ysl 11 powered by a RR dart from 1949. I looked it up ther were only 4 registered airworthy 2 in the south seas as air rescue, other one dont know and this one flying me from buriram - TIT the journey took 2 hours to bkk i guess they were being careful with the old lady

High speed BS

Edited May 22, 2012 by robint

[blazes]

Here we go with a bunch of stupid ignorant negative comments about something positive the Thais are trying to do to improve conditions. Go home.

Pity they couldn't choose a different project partner, do some research on China's plagued system, you'll be amazed at your findings.

I agree, the corruption in China's rail system is simply beyond belief.

I am impressed by the corruption number of 2.8 billion dollars.... :-)

I am sure the Thais can hardly wait for the Chinese to show up and start throwing money around. Regarding being negative on Thailand, I just find it hard to believe that a country that cannot stop jet ski scams , is now going to build a high speed rail project....

From Wikipedia......

Zhang Shuguang (张曙光) (born December 1956) born in Shanghai, whose ancestors are native of Liyang, Jiangsu, China. Graduated from Lanzhou Railway University in 1982, he was deputy chief engineer of Ministry of Railways and the deputy chief designer of the Chinese high-speed railway.[1]

He has since been sacked for corruption in the high speed rail projects[2] According to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, Zhang is estimated to have misappropriated to his personal overseas accounts the equivalent of $2.8 billion.......

Well, at least he was indeed sacked. And if he is still in China he may be executed. Compare with Wall Street and other tea-money outfits around the world.

[gand]

Sounds like a train wreck to me.

[elliss]

Great idea. I hope they can pull it off.

sure can,

if they use chinese workers .

[justcruisin]

All things good come to those who wait...but, a high speed rail link is not going to happen for a very long time.

It usually takes up to 2.5 weeks to get a parcel from BKK to CNX.

Maybe pack mules are being used now?

[noitom]

This is a preposterous scheme to squander legitimate Thai taxpayer money. How does this economically and socially benefit the majority of the Thai population? Or even better, who is the secretive beneficiary constituencies? Is it northern drug trade? Is it Thai and other airlines operating the Chang Mai/BKK route? Where is the newspaper's responsibility to investigate and report on this project?

[bangkokrick]

Great idea. I hope they can pull it off.

sure can,

if they use chinese workers .

That is exactly what they will be doing. This line is of great interest to the Chinese as it will finally connect into China.

[Reasonableman]

If its done Tibet style, the Chinese will do the brain work, and the Thai-Burmese will do the laboring. Seems to work for them, i.e., they do construct what they set out to construct, despite the immense resentment among the locals.

[Superdude]

Looking forward to it

[LawrenceN]

Can't wait to see the mess when, not if, a pick-up full of migrant labourers breaks down on the tracks.

The next time you're on a bullet train in China, Japan, or France, please note: There are no crossings at grade. I'm not a big fan of Thai engineering standards, but I think even they understand that grade crossings are out of the question.

[hhiser]

Doesn't a feasibility study try to determine WHETHER the project is feasible? Perhaps announcing the completion date is a little premature.

Some of the land in the railway corridors may need to be resumed, I guess... and equipment purchased... that's a lot of concrete and rails... 6 years, huh? ... hmmmmm

I would think they should actually perform the feasibility study before even announcing the project. But, it's not about doing something. It's about looking like your doing something.

[Briggsy]

2018? Only if the Chinese and their armies of serfs are shipped in to build it.

[blablablabla]

I remember the accident of the high speed train in China last year ...... is it the same model which will come in Thailand ? The Chinese only copied the french TGV I just wonder if it will be as reliable. I guess not ....China is famous for his low quality products.

I think the arrogance of some thinking that things are better in their home country and that accidents don't occur there is a bit misguided, especially considering the severe economic mistakes that have taken place and continue to take place. Chinese and Thais are just as smart as any Europeans or North Americans, given the proper training and education. Rome was not built in one day, was it?

Here is something for some of you to change that fixation that all that comes out of China is rubbish:

http://www.wimp.com/buildingbuilt/

That being said, I think, like many, that solving the flood and smoke problems is far more crucial.

[Thai at Heart]

It took 3 years to widen and pave 4km of Thappraya Road between Pattaya and Jomtien. How in the world will this ever happen in 6 years?

You jest, surely? it was more like 5 years

are you both sure--I think 6 the same as the train line -but it will NOT be built. it's not viable. not for a few Family members, and MP's on w/e adventures. These North western cities really are best flying to-suggest Air Asia 1 and a 1/2 hours, and cheaper .

When you talk about flights you should take many other things into account such as getting to airport, check-in, waiting for take off, airborne, check out, getting into town. The combined figure would be around 5 hours from BKK to CM.

And that doesn't count the advantages it brings with freight opportunities allowing bulk goods to be transported more cheaply to Bangkok and port. The freight and bus companies are one of the most politically powerful bunches in Thailand and will fight this tooth and nail. Just look at the front door of sugar factories when they are processing, literally processions of thousands of 8 wheel trucks camping in front. It is so inefficient and will only get more and more expensive very quickly.

[folium]

When you talk about flights you should take many other things into account such as getting to airport, check-in, waiting for take off, airborne, check out, getting into town. The combined figure would be around 5 hours from BKK to CM.

Not always true.

On Monday left central Bangkok at 2.30pm, took the train, checked in, caught the AA 3.50pm flight to CNX, got home at 5.25pm.

2 hours 55mins and a very painless trip.

[folium]

Looking at the bigger picture re rail links:

http://www.economist.com/node/17965601

[ratcatcher]

Looking at the bigger picture re rail links:

http://www.economist.com/node/17965601

Well worth a read. A good perspective, especially this statement.

"In Thailand the hazards are more political. To get around the mighty, hidebound state operator, the Thai government proposes a new line using Chinese technology to run parallel to the existing one"

[favre360]

nevermind remnants of our other failed projects sprawled through out BKK, it's a train and it's gonna go 300km/h and we'll have it done by 2018...... Just gotta make sure we can actually do it

[gand]

Will they call it the Shinawatra Cannonball Express? As in the Hooterville Cannonball was a "fictional" railroad train featured in Petticoat Junction, an American situation comedy.

[Reasonableman]

A quick survey of the downside, from "elsewhere":

A line can't be a busy freight line and also a busy high-speed-rail line at once, so in many corridors there will need to be two separate rail lines.

The only disadvantages worth mentioning are the high infrastructure costs, initial and maintenance.

Boarding is a nightmare if it doesn't stop at your station.

Wear and Tear, Power, Stopping Distances, Strength of train and track, Life of Carriages, Safety of passengers, Training, Congestion

A high speed train is only suitable for long-distance inter-city routes, either non-stop or with few stops en route. There was mention of intermediate stops between Bkk-CM. Where? How many? How often can a high-speed train stop and start and still be called "high speed"?

One of the biggest problems with constructing those trains is finding a route that will accommodate a vehicle travelling that quickly. I rode on the TVG, and it goes mostly through flat farm land. There are big fences on either side of the tracks to keep animals and people off of the tracks. Also, it is very important to keep the tracks clear of debris due to the increased risk of accidents at a very high speed. The fence along the train tracks make it necessary for roads to bridge over the tracks. There are no RR crossings on the TVG when it's going through open land. In addition, the fence prevents the migration of animals. So, there are quite a few logistical matters to consider when thinking about a train like this.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Reasonableman

[IsaanUSA]

One of the biggest problems with constructing those trains is finding a route that will accommodate a vehicle travelling that quickly. I rode on the TVG, and it goes mostly through flat farm land. There are big fences on either side of the tracks to keep animals and people off of the tracks. Also, it is very important to keep the tracks clear of debris due to the increased risk of accidents at a very high speed. The fence along the train tracks make it necessary for roads to bridge over the tracks. There are no RR crossings on the TVG when it's going through open land. In addition, the fence prevents the migration of animals. So, there are quite a few logistical matters to consider when thinking about a train like this.

Good Lord don't let a Frenchmen read your post. It's TGV. Train à Grande Vitesse

[Buchholz]

Quote

Under a total budget of 983.47 billion baht, the Transport Ministry has plans to construct 5 high-speed rail routes, including Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Ubon Ratchathani, Bangkok-Rayong, and Bangkok-Padang Besar.

Let's see, 30% of 983,470,000,000 baht is a 295,041,000,000 baht windfall for somebody in the revenue stream. Just to keep it in perspective, the skim in USD is $9,517,451,612.90

use your calculator again on today's latest gift to the Transport Ministry

Finance Ministry Approves 1.64 Trillion Baht Fund for Transport/Logistics Projects

The Finance Ministry has agreed to provide funds worth 1.64 trillion baht for the Transport Ministry to invest in transportation and logistics infrastructure development projects from this year to 2018.

Following a meeting with Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Kittirat Na Ranong, Transport Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan disclosed that the Finance Ministry has agreed to provide funds worth 1.64 trillion baht for transportation and logistics infrastructure development projects between 2012 and 2018.

A joint working committee will be formed to draft a budget plan and consider details of each project as well as sources of funding.

Jarupong said that the meeting has also resolved to appoint a committee to look into the delay in the Red Line electric rail project.

-- Tan Network 2012-05-23

1,640,000,000,000.00 baht

.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Buchholz

[Thai at Heart]

Quote

Under a total budget of 983.47 billion baht, the Transport Ministry has plans to construct 5 high-speed rail routes, including Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Ubon Ratchathani, Bangkok-Rayong, and Bangkok-Padang Besar.

Let's see, 30% of 983,470,000,000 baht is a 295,041,000,000 baht windfall for somebody in the revenue stream. Just to keep it in perspective, the skim in USD is $9,517,451,612.90

use your calculator again on today's latest gift to the Transport Ministry

Finance Ministry Approves 1.64 Trillion Baht Fund for Transport/Logistics Projects

The Finance Ministry has agreed to provide funds worth 1.64 trillion baht for the Transport Ministry to invest in transportation and logistics infrastructure development projects from this year to 2018.

Following a meeting with Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Kittirat Na Ranong, Transport Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan disclosed that the Finance Ministry has agreed to provide funds worth 1.64 trillion baht for transportation and logistics infrastructure development projects between 2012 and 2018.

A joint working committee will be formed to draft a budget plan and consider details of each project as well as sources of funding.

Jarupong said that the meeting has also resolved to appoint a committee to look into the delay in the Red Line electric rail project.

-- Tan Network 2012-05-23

1,640,000,000,000.00 baht

.

Nice of them to actually break that down into "which" projects.

[cloudhopper]

This is great news since the aerial tramway from Pai to Chiang Mai was supposed be ready by around then too.

Edited May 23, 2012 by cloudhopper

[trainman34014]

Some people seem to have missed the part about this being a railway focusing on passenger travel. You can't run freight services at 300 kph and you can't fit them between 300kph passenger train services either. Methinks that their thinking is that the old lines would continue as is with slow everything. They also mention building the new line parallel to the old one and that's impossible because it winds its way around and up and down Mountains. The new line will have to be largely straight and a hell of a lot of tunneling through the Mountains will be required. Such an undertaking will take a thousand years to pay for itself, and all in all, it's just not worth the time and effort.

[Reasonableman]

That must be what the trillion Baht is designated for, (re)moving mountains. Which reminds me, isn't CM a seismic area? Can HST systems withstand such events? Japan must have similar issues to contend with.