Concept 2 Rower Model D (Exercise For Fat Loss)

[tropo]

I tried something a bit different this evening. Instead of going for a specific length of time I decided to burn a specific number of calories irrespective of time. I went for 500 calories. This could help to eliminate always trying to beat a previous session although you can still compete against the previous sessions time.

A further note on the drag factor.

I tested the 2nd rower at the gym today. On damper setting 10 the drag factor was 176 compared to the other machine's 150. I had to adjust it down to setting 8 to equal the other rower's setting 10.

I was curious Rob, what drag factor do you get on your machine at setting 10? I get 220.

[robblok]

Tropo,

How exactly do you test it. I know the drag factor explanation on the screen but i dont see actual numbers.

Today i did an other 45 minutes in the morning. I need to get that ingrained in my routine and start a bit earlier. Then im sure i can go on with it for life. I had a great training last night and a great nights rest.

This morning i did the best 45 MAF session so far. I keep improving all the time. Lower heartrates so i can pull harder. I think because i never did much rowing / cardio the improvements are part stamina part technique. Also burned more calories.

As a side note did you know each workout is split in 5 pieces and recorded. I re rowed a MAF of a few days back and saw the average WAT per 9 minutes drop but i was of course still a lot above it because of improvements. Its good to work like this

I am gaining a bit of weight i can only think its muscle because of the harder training, more food and more cardio. If its fat it would be real strange. Its not a huge increase either. But i got the skin calipers to keep track. Though its hard to get good readings from them. But im happy they are digital so you dont have to look at it while taking the measurement. I remember that was an extra problem with the old ones.

Also my +/- 15% got lower too correspondents with my 5-6 kg that i want to loose to get abs. Normal persons get clear abs at 10%. I am not going lower as 10%

[tropo]

Main menu - more options - display drag factor - row - number comes up immediately.

Yes, I always have a look at my splits. It shows heart rate on each split too. If you don't program the split time it divides your workout into 5. You change the split time except on "just row". I like to use 5 minute splits.

Did you order the pinch callipers from Phuket Health online store? I didn't realise they were digital. I may order one too as it is difficult to read the analogue measurements if you're doing it on your own.

[robblok]

Main menu - more options - display drag factor - row - number comes up immediately.

Yes, I always have a look at my splits. It shows heart rate on each split too. If you don't program the split time it divides your workout into 5. You change the split time except on "just row". I like to use 5 minute splits.

Did you order the pinch callipers from Phuket Health online store? I didn't realise they were digital. I may order one too as it is difficult to read the analogue measurements if you're doing it on your own.

Yes that is where i ordered them. But i dont think they are the cheap version. I got these free when i bought a powertech utility bench & leg press utility.

About the splits im not sure they display the average heart-rate. Actually im sure they just take the heart rate at the moment of the split end (got 143 while i know for sure i kept it on 142 or lower and just went a bit too high at end of a split)

[robblok]

Again a nice row about the same as last one. Not better not worse. It was good I am happy im going through with it.

Strange thing is i see my weight increasing. But with all the added workouts and the extra intensity in my weight lifting i doubt it is fat. Also looking at my body im not looking fatter. The food i increased is not that much and its all clean. So i just let it slide and see where it goes. Got a caliper for fat now (though its still not perfect) i will see where it ends. Else after a few weeks i can always cut back on food. But in this case i think by going on working out as hard as i do now and eating the extra proteins i cant go wrong.

Worst that can happen is that it will take longer to reach my goal.

[tropo]

I had a total rest day yesterday.

I must say, you're hitting this rowing hard - how many lifetime meters have you clocked up so far on your new rower?

Have you tried the RowPro software yet? I installed the trial version today and had a look. If you have a big TV to row in front of you can watch yourself gliding across the water. You can also watch some graphs (you choose the units) and other parameters on the big screen as you row. There's a rowing clinic in there too.

It's seems cute, but I don't know if I want to spend the $99 on it yet. The free trial is 20 days.

You and I have a fairly basic use for this rower right now - fat burner. I don't know if I ever want to get into the competitive side of it.

I consider competition as a negative. It causes one to do things which aren't always the right thing and can quickly lead to injuries. Perhaps some need it for motivation, but I can stay motivated without it.

Edited June 10, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

Tropo, i believe something like 80km or so not that much yet. I started of slow but now im getting the hang of it. I have heard of row pro but i havent got a tv or computer in my gym. Actually im also not sure if i want it or not. Its not the price but i am doing just MAF and to be honest i think that is what i will do most. It means i can burn fat while not compromising my lifting recovery.

I think we have the same idea's about what we use it for. I am considering HIT too but only after i get in better shape. Right now this is enough.

I really hope that i can keep it up 45 minutes in the morning every day. (during my slow periods working wise its ok). I think its a great way to start the day.

Anyway im still convinced you do a lot more cardio then me. But in an optimal week my cardio would be 7 days of 45 min and 4 extra days that i ad 30 min in the evening. But only in my quiet months (2 out of every 3 months in a quarter). Next month, ill be lucky if i only do the 7 times 45 min and the rest of the lifting.

[tropo]

Anyway im still convinced you do a lot more cardio then me. But in an optimal week my cardio would be 7 days of 45 min and 4 extra days that i ad 30 min in the evening. But only in my quiet months (2 out of every 3 months in a quarter). Next month, ill be lucky if i only do the 7 times 45 min and the rest of the lifting.

Not if you're doing 45 minutes a day. You'll be way ahead of what I do. Today I'll shoot for 500 calories which is around 37 minutes on the rower. I was going to do some HIIT at gym today, but felt a bit low on energy today.

Maybe I'll stick in a pace boat today just to push me along because I'm feeling lazy. I'll watch myself on the big screen using RowPro.

Edited June 10, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

I did a 10,000m row using the RowPro software. You may be interested in how well it analyses your row when completed. You were right, the heart rate is the rate at the end of each split, not an average - but the log card gives you an average heart rate for the whole session, which in the case of tonight's row was 125.

For a guy interested in graphs, you can select a whole host of them to analyse your row. In the main report you can see a drop down list where you can choose graphs displaying watts, calories, etc

Here's a sample from my row this evening:

You have to make sure you disable the screen saver or other power savers (like screen going blank) or you'll have to stop the row and click the mouse. I had 3 pace boats and the fastest one overtook me while I was getting off to do this. That's where you can notice a reduction of pace on the chart.

Edited June 10, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

Tropo,

It's a nice piece of kit, been thinking about it a bit. Right now just released the dogs so i can do an other row after they get back. Im a bit late bu work is slower so that is not a problem.

Im impressed by your stamina., its a lot better as mine. I still have time to improve.

I like the row pro software but currently i have no computers in my gym room. I used to have one there too but the ipad replaced it functions and i gave it to my wife's family.

I got 2 more computers but both are downstairs. I have read something about an ipad on remote control. But im not sure if im going through with all that hassle. Thing is for now i just want to do MAF. But who knows i might go row pro later because there are some training programs too.

I will show you my MAF later and you will understand that my cardio stamina is a lot less then yours.

[robblok]

45 min at 100 watt at 8900 meters. That is my best so far. And it was rowed this morning. I did not have a great row because my left feet went to sleep (lack of circulation) might have to not tighten my laces or the strap that much.

[tropo]

That's not too bad at all. Just remember I've been at this a long time. Be careful what you wish for because to be honest I'd rather be able to increase my heart rate more easily - as it is I need to pull really hard to get it up and I'm likely to over train my back as a result. To get it up to 130 I need to pull around 200W, which is a lot of work. We need these muscles, which are heavily activated during rowing, for our weight training. It's not like we're only rowing for fitness and we don't have to worry about doing 4 or 5 weight workouts per week on top of it.

This was a reservation I had when considering buying one for home use. I think I'll be falling into a program of using it 3 times per week or every other day at the most.

I did the 10,000m row yesterday mainly to test out the RowPro software. I prefer to start "Just Row" and just aim for 500 calories, but you cannot enter pace boats on "Just Row" and 10,000m was the nearest set program I could use to burn 500. As it went I ended up burning over 600 calories because I became competitive with the pace boat and at one stage had to catch it up.... then I wanted to see how hard I needed to row to get my HR over 130.

There is one huge benefit for me doing an evening row. I miss out on 1 meal in the evening so it helps my fat burning quite a bit that way. Normally I sit at home thinking about food all the time and have to control it - but putting in that row makes it easy to skip an evening meal - and as a result I posted a new low bodyweight this morning.

This morning I did my favourite 90 minute MAF cardio at the gym again - 45 bike + 45 Cybex - total burn 1365. I must say it felt a lot easier than my 627 on the rower last night.

[robblok]

Tropo,

I am not worried and its all about finding a good cardio exercise for me that wont interfere to much with my weight training. I think MAF on the rower is perfect for that. I am real happy that you put me on it because else i get too competitive and then it will be soon too much.

I rather be the turtle slow but sure, i really hope i can wake up a bit earlier so i can go on doing my 45 min when am working hard next month. I mean it would be so great to do this 45 min every day and keep doing it. In the long run that is going to give me loads of benefits.

I received my transmitter for the bike heartrate monitor too. Only problem is the saddle.. it hurts my.... anyay i use one of those cycling pants for that but its still not a comfortable something. Other thing is both me and the gf use the bike and she loves screwing up the settings so i have find a nice setting every time. On the other hand i can read a book on my ipad while cycling.

[tropo]

Maybe now you can handle 45 minutes per day without a break, but as you get more conditioned you may find that it will become easier to over train. People have the idea that when you're really fit you can handle more, but really very fit people can't handle as many sessions per week because their intensity is higher. Even though you're only doing MAF intensity, the work load will increase substantially over time.

It's a catch 22. Very strong people who handle a lot more weight in the gym are also more inclined to get into an overtrained state than people who train light.

When you get too busy at work you may find that once every second day will be good for you. You could increase that 45 minutes to 60 minutes, but by then you'll be more conditioned and burning more calories per hour anyway.

Edited June 11, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

I get what you are saying, because your stressing your body more then someone who is less trained. But on the other hand your body is more used to it. Anyway i get your drift.

[tropo]

I get what you are saying, because your stressing your body more then someone who is less trained. But on the other hand your body is more used to it. Anyway i get your drift.

Load equals stress. When you pull hard on the rower it's like lifting heavier weight. This is a concept (no pun intended) few seem to grasp. Most people would think what you just said "they are used to it".

For example, a guy who bench presses 200 kg can not train as often as a guy who can only bench press 100 kg. (heavy weight contributes to volume even though the reps are fewer by comparison). The stronger you are the easier it is to over train because the heavy weights place a far heavier toll on connective tissue and your energy systems and you need longer to recover. It's physics. Your muscles must generate more force to overcome heavier resistance. That depletes the bodies energy reserves.

Another way to look at it is like this: 200kg never feels light, even if you can push 300kg. Heavy weights never feel light even though you may be strong enough to do multiple reps with the weight. You may relate to this from your experience with all your heavy deadlifting.

A person who can pull 300 watts on a rower certainly couldn't do that everyday, whereas a person pulling, for example 150 watts may get away with it.

I'm happy this subject came up, as it is an important consideration for people pushing their bodies to their physical limits.

The higher your conditioning, the easier it is to get into an over-trained state.

[robblok]

Tropo,

You are right the human body has limits and the closer you are to those limits the easier it is to overwork yourself.

[tropo]

Tropo,

You are right the human body has limits and the closer you are to those limits the easier it is to overwork yourself.

That's pretty much where I am in rowing. I can't improve my MAF in rowing by much and I don't want or need to.

To be honest, as far as strength in the gym goes I don't really have far I can go to improve. Many years of testing my limits has taught me where they are. This is another reason why I have dropped off the idea of being overly concerned about my strength levels (in various exercises) and I'm looking for other ways to fine tune my training to eke out improvements in my physique.

This is where it becomes very interesting. It's no longer a simple progression as it was in the earlier days.

I couldn't get much bigger, so the only way to go was smaller - and more defined.

Edited June 11, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

Good points tropo. My strenght has suffered a lot (bench press and squat and deads) Other things are ok. I don't really care (ok a little bit) but i do know that after next month i'm going to workout even harder and will see where that goes. Right now im really enjoying my workouts and i havent had that feeling for a long time. I really think the workout drinks help me. Too bad i have to cycle of them at times. I am also going for anvarite next time. I think gaspari nutrition might be one of the better brands.

[tropo]

I figured I needed the best possible supplement available for a hard training bodybuilder. That's the one I chose after a bit of research and comparisons. If you know of a better one I'm all ears.

I did notice a bit of a serge when I first started using it, in comparison to Optimen - a serge in energy. Of course once you've taken something for awhile you won't notice anything.

[robblok]

Did an other row today. On normal weight training days i do 2 rowing sessions first a 45 min in the morning and a 30 min after the training.

This was my best one so far for the 30 minutes. I dont know what it was but i was in sync. Low strokerate high power.

30:00:00 6151 22 139

200 meters better as last row. I think its not all stamina that gives me my improvements. I think its the technique too. I have now gone over the 100k on the rower. It was great, great piece of workout kit.

[robblok]

Looks like we have a dialoge here in the im too fat forum. Too bad GLVB is busy and others would have been good to have more input.

Going to start a topic about pre workout drinks. It was GLVB that put me on them. After using NO Explode a year or more back it did not do anything for me. I also used to use cafeine (got at least half a kg here in powder form) making my own capsules. However cafeine crashes me and it cant compare to this clean energy + i can sleep at night.

[tropo]

*deleted* (moved to the new thread on pre-workout drinks)

Edited June 11, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

Did an other row today. On normal weight training days i do 2 rowing sessions first a 45 min in the morning and a 30 min after the training.

This was my best one so far for the 30 minutes. I dont know what it was but i was in sync. Low strokerate high power.

30:00:00 6151 22 139

200 meters better as last row. I think its not all stamina that gives me my improvements. I think its the technique too. I have now gone over the 100k on the rower. It was great, great piece of workout kit.

200 meters is a big improvement already. It takes quite an effort to increase by 200 meters over 30 minutes.

[robblok]

This morning i increased again for my 45 min row added 95 meters to my previous best. But this morning i felt great. Did feel it in my back a bit because i did deadlifts and other back exercises the previous day. This time i did not tie the shoes that tight nor did i fasten the straps on my feet to tight. So I had no problem with my feet falling asleep (dutch expression i mean circulation problems)

8995 at 104 watt at 45 min. What i now do is re rowing one of my other good (but not best) sessions as i don't want to push myself too much. I want a comfortable MAF session. I notice that at first when the pace boat is still visible i get competitive, but once i get it away from the screen i only make sure i row faster as the average watt's

[tropo]

That's good work! You're getting your money's worth on that machine.

[robblok]

That's good work! You're getting your money's worth on that machine.

I sure am and if i keep this up the weight will come off and my health will improve. I really like the rower. I think the fact that i have to keep my heart rate in check plus i have a pace boat going there and keeping an average wat up makes it less boring for me as biking.

I am always completely drenched after a session and then wait a bit and clean the row machine.

[tropo]

I've got some hard figures from tonight's row to illustrate my earlier reservations about rowing. I find them quite puzzling actually, so I'd like you to take a close look at them and give me your opinion.

Tonight my goal was to do an easy row to burn 500 calories. The time it took wasn't important but it had to be easy as I did squats today so my lower back was fried.

Here is my log using the RowPro software:

Although my heart rate reached a maximum of 118 at the end of the final split, that was only because I pulled quite hard for the last few minutes. My average heart rate for the session was only 110 (from log card). For the first 5 minutes it didn't go over 100.

As you can see, I have to pull quite hard to achieve even these low heart rates. These heart rates are way below my MAF which is 128.

Now to make a comparison to the bike (I use a Star Trac upright stationary bike) - yesterday I burned 562 on it in 45 minutes. If I had extended my row this evening to 45 minutes (I did just under 39 mins) I would have burned 577 calories, so the calorie burn rate on both machines was almost identical - but on the bike I averaged HR 128, whereas on the rower only 110.

I had a theory that the strong rhythmical and forced exhalation on the rower allowed me to apply more power at a lower heart rate compared to other cardio machines. The problem with this theory is that you don't seem to have the same "problem" and I've also read that others find it easy to achieve high heart rates on the rower. I've even seen warnings to take it easy on the rower because it's easy to push the heart rate too high.

Perhaps I should just ditch the heart rate monitor and row to whatever level feels comfortable, after all I'm still burning quite a few calories, which is the primary purpose of my rowing at home. I'm just not comfortable pulling with the intensity I need to get up to my MAF. That could end up affecting my weight workouts too much, which is something I need to avoid.

Edited June 12, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

Tropo,

You are right about th rhythmical and forced exhalation. At times when i really focus on it i get my heart rate lower and my pulls a lot stronger. However i never seen to be able to do this real long as it takes a lot of effort and i soon get bored with it. (it does not come naturally yet)

I am really impressed with those numbers, you see them as a curse i see them as a guy in good shape. Right now i'm trying to gain some motivation for my morning row. I am late and its all because of the gf and the half of xanax i took to be able to sleep (she came home late and went out early i just took half to sleep) but now my brain is foggy and im taking some cafeine (the only thing that helps me against this problem.

Maybe MAF is just not for you, your burning enough like you said and by going lower as MAF you still make sure you dont over exert yourself. The thought behind maf is to do cardio in a way that it does not interfere with other workouts. So just ignore the heart rate and keep rowing slower so you dont overburden your body.

Right now my upper back and shoulders are hurting (also part of why im not on the rower yet).

[robblok]

I did the 45 min with cafeine before breakfast. Its late now but i just stopped. It was an other record. 9023 meters 495 cals and something like 104 watt average. I had real trouble getting my heart rate down the last part of the row. It must have been the cafeine, i exceeded the MAF just with 1-2 beats but else i had to stay so low it was crazy. All in al the whole MAF run was below the target rate.

Im getting callus all over my hands and my hands are so wet. I must have sweated a few liters time to get that in by body again. Taking a nice coconut with my oatmeal as breakfast.