Thailand Book Threads

[Cassandra]

Jack Reynolds book, though 50 years old, is a far superior work to "Private Dancer" but in the overall scheme of things doesn't of course rank very high.I wouldn't for a moment suggest people who liked "Private Dancer" were low life retards. Obviously they're not and most of us have read or skim read it anyway.It is likely however that most people who take it as well written may not -how to put it kindly-have a useful reference to make a judgement of much value.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You already have suggested that people who liked "Private Dancer" are on the dim side; That horse is already out of the barn.

However, I don't recall anyone claiming that it was "well-written", just that it was informative and enjoyable reading. Sometimes, that's good enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK fair enough.I don't have any kind of vendetta for Stephen Leather.Just don't think he has much genuine insight to the Thai world and I agree the fact he writes so poorly is no impediment to some peoples enjoyment.I wouldn't bother making these comments if he wasn't so overpraised.But for people who like this sort of thing this is the sort of thing they like.

[toptuan]

FORUM RULES:

"...and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful...name calling...and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"... a sharp response..."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"A rose by any other name..."

[The_Moog]

Some of it is garbage, 'Pattaya, Patpong on steroids' and its numerous Pattaya sequels and spin offs. Because they are self-published, they are quite expensive for a slim volume.

Largely though I like Thai genre lit that is written by foreigners eg: "Bangkok inside out' (which is available contrary to the news of its withdrawal) or "Private Dancer".

The reason rubbish like 'Sleepless in Bangkok' finds its way on to bookshelves is that the costs of printing and publishing in Thailand are cheap, so even cretins can get their pointless effluvia bound.

Edited January 4, 2006 by The_Moog

[The Muji]

But for people who like this sort of thing this is the sort of thing they like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... Talk about well-written

[OldAsiaHand]

... even cretins can self-publish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, this is where I started, isn't it? With the observation that, on the whole, we just don't like each other very much. Certainly, based on what you write here, I don't like many of you; and clearly, based on what I write here, many of you don't like me either. Fair enough....

What I was trying to do, of course, was to get a conversation going as to whether there is more confict among foreigners here in Thailand than you might normally expect to find in any random collection of people. I really think there is. It's most apparent in the constant, deeply personal clashes between the...well, what terms shall we use to try and avoid more abuse? Let's say the nightlife folks and the non-nightlife folk. How about that, huh? Politically correct enough to satisfy everyone?

Still, it's a subject that is clearly a mistake to try and talk about here. A shame really. It might be interesting.

Never mind.

[Thai Chi]

... even cretins can self-publish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, this is where I started, isn't it? With the observation that, on the whole, we just don't like each other very much. Certainly, based on what you write here, I don't like many of you; and clearly, based on what I write here, many of you don't like me either. Fair enough....

What I was trying to do, of course, was to get a conversation going as to whether there is more confict among foreigners here in Thailand than you might normally expect to find in any random collection of people. I really think there is. It's most apparent in the constant, deeply personal clashes between the...well, what terms shall we use to try and avoid more abuse? Let's say the nightlife folks and the non-nightlife folk. How about that, huh? Politically correct enough to satisfy everyone?

Still, it's a subject that is clearly a mistake to try and talk about here. A shame really. It might be interesting.

Never mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this post the "intellectual" way of saying..."boo hoo hoo I'm taking my bat and going home"

[jbowman1993]

I'm just sad I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this thread.

[toptuan]

Is this post the "intellectual" way of saying..."boo hoo hoo I'm taking my bat and going home"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it's his inadvertent way of saying "I still don't get it."

Watch this guy.

Perhaps if we call him on it everytime he starts his abuse, he'll either get the message or go point his gun somewhere else.

Edited January 4, 2006 by toptuan

[mbkudu]

A poster above labels me as 'nasty' for a posting in another thread. Somebody asked about how to open a US bank account and the first reply was something along the lines of 'why would anyone want a US bank account.' When I subsequently tried to answer the question asked, I apparently also said something to the effect that the first answer was 'stupid.'

Let's try to use that as an illustration of my point then, shall we? Someone asked for help and information in a perfectly sensible way, and then gets a silly answer like 'why would anyone want a US account?' What use is that answer to anyone? Did it help the poster? Was it even amusing? Saying then that it was a stupid response does indeed have some basis in fact, even if you disagree with my characterization. Regardless, it was not a characterization of the poster, only of his posting.

I like that old 70s tune that goes, 'It's cool to be kind...'

[OldAsiaHand]

... even cretins can self-publish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, this is where I started, isn't it? With the observation that, on the whole, we just don't like each other very much. Certainly, based on what you write here, I don't like many of you; and clearly, based on what I write here, many of you don't like me either. Fair enough....

What I was trying to do, of course, was to get a conversation going as to whether there is more confict among foreigners here in Thailand than you might normally expect to find in any random collection of people. I really think there is. It's most apparent in the constant, deeply personal clashes between the...well, what terms shall we use to try and avoid more abuse? Let's say the nightlife folks and the non-nightlife folk. How about that, huh? Politically correct enough to satisfy everyone?

Still, it's a subject that is clearly a mistake to try and talk about here. A shame really. It might be interesting.

Never mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this post the "intellectual" way of saying..."boo hoo hoo I'm taking my bat and going home"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You just can't stop with the personal attacks no matter what I say, can you? Take a couple of asprin and lie down for a while. Maybe you'll feel better later. But probably not.

Edited January 4, 2006 by OldAsiaHand

[toptuan]

You just can't stop with the personal attacks no matter what I say, can you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Play the victim" [Technique #26: when all the other defense tactics have failed]

The victim isn't usually the one pointing the gun, dude.

Edited January 4, 2006 by toptuan

[sabaijai]

It really seems to me that these book threads generally errupt into nasty, personal conflicts for a pretty obvious reason.

It has always been my view that a central truth to life in Thailand is that most of the foreigners here really don't have much regard for most of the other foreigners who are here. The various novelists we usually discuss, if that is the word for what we do, seem to me to appeal almost exclusively to just one strata of our little local society here (if 'society' is the right word either). By attacking the novelist, you attack the kind of people who read his novels.

The barflys hate those who aren't barflys. The educated hate those who aren't educated. The winners hate the losers. The poor hate the rich. And around and around we go.

Who wants to be the first to contemptously sneer that I obviously don't know anything about Thailand when I say the various strata of foreign life here are generally contemptous of the other strata of foreign life here?

Your honor, I rest my case......

I agree, and I think you especially delight in this practice.

In your case, it's also because you can't resist flaming other members here, regardless of their 'strata'.

[gburns57au]

mmmm......Nope I cant understand Ulysses at all..............

You get points for honesty here.

I don't get it either, but any book that you have to read with a guide that tells you what it really means, seems worth putting off for as long as possible.

The book ????.....oh right....never read it....

[Glauka]

I'm just sad I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can´t believe you make me waste 1second of my life by posting the above sentence...

and now i losing time replaying to you...

oh nooooo!!!!

I hope if you ever read this again you waste some time...

[Glauka]

Good books don't have to be heavy, intellectual and pretentious to have merit.Indeed such books probably wouldn't be very good anyway.

Can you tell me which kind of books lie under the definition of "good book"?

is there some people who their jobs is to categorize books as good or bad?

if so why books are not put within this categories in libraries and bookshops?

please can you answer me...so that I make sure that I am not mistaken again when choosing a book....

[longway]

... even cretins can self-publish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, this is where I started, isn't it? With the observation that, on the whole, we just don't like each other very much. Certainly, based on what you write here, I don't like many of you; and clearly, based on what I write here, many of you don't like me either. Fair enough....

What I was trying to do, of course, was to get a conversation going as to whether there is more confict among foreigners here in Thailand than you might normally expect to find in any random collection of people. I really think there is. It's most apparent in the constant, deeply personal clashes between the...well, what terms shall we use to try and avoid more abuse? Let's say the nightlife folks and the non-nightlife folk. How about that, huh? Politically correct enough to satisfy everyone?

Still, it's a subject that is clearly a mistake to try and talk about here. A shame really. It might be interesting.

Never mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this post the "intellectual" way of saying..."boo hoo hoo I'm taking my bat and going home"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You just can't stop with the personal attacks no matter what I say, can you? Take a couple of asprin and lie down for a while. Maybe you'll feel better later. But probably not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the hpocrisy of OAH is truly astonishing... however i cant help thinking he actually believes he is the victim here.

[Thai Chi]

Quote from OAH

"You just can't stop with the personal attacks no matter what I say, can you? Take a couple of asprin and lie down for a while. Maybe you'll feel better later. But probably not."

OAH, for some reason you really do have a feather up your arse about Pira Sudham. The reason I did not post in the "books in Thailand" thread, was because I knew that as soon as someone did, you would wade in with your criticism. And I was right

Talk about Devaju !!!!! But let us first recap on an innocent post of mine back in August.

Callmedaddy... Just to clarify a couple of posts in a "Thailand News Clippings" thread the other day. Well known Thai writer Pira Sudham, author of TALES OF THAILAND, MONSOON COUNTRY, THE FORCE OF KARMA etc etc is definately alive and well. I received the following email from him today.

bannork... His books about Issan are a wonderful read for anyone who has an interest in that area, don't miss them.

donna... I, for one, didn't hear the rumour that he had passed on. I LOVE Pira Sudhams books. He is a lovely writer and his stories are some of the best written about Thailand. Sure beats the BG stories any day.

All very innocent so far...but wait, here comes the big bad old wolf.

Oah... Your should read more widely, donna. There is a much bigger choice of Asian-connected fiction available here than just local bar girl rubbish and Sudam's politically correct, but desperately mediocre and tedious prose. If you're in Bangkok, go down to Kinokuniya in the Emporium and look through their Asian sections. I'm sure you'll find something interesting and far more worth your time.

And followed by the expected response in " books about Thailand thread"

toptuan... A Nobel Prize for Literature nominee living in rural Isan? It's true! I recommend ANY of Pira Sudham's books. The author, from a little village in Buriram Province, was educated abroad and explains Isan culture to the rest of the world, writing in high-quality English, utilizing fiction as his medium. He has an excellent vantage point from three cultures: Thai, Isan and the West. Especially if you live upcountry, well worth the read. My Isan university students confirm that his writings are culturally on-target. It has heavily influenced (and helped) my own relationships with the people of Isan.

2 posts later...Hes back.............!!

Oah... Oh, come on. And the Pope is my dad. That self-promoting, no-talent idiot Sudham has been peddling that 'Nobel Prize' crap for years and you actually fell for it? Complete and utter rubbish. ANYONE can be nominated. All it takes is a letter. It doesn't have to be endorsed by anyone. You can write a letter and make Thaksin a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize. Gee, I wonder if he's thought of that.... As for Sudham's books.....well, in my view his 'Nobel Prize' fantasy is the best fiction he's ever written. The novels themselves are so poorly written that you will laugh and so brutally dull that you will have to. Unless you're one of those foreigners who think living in a dirt-floored Issan hut somehow makes you morally superior to everyone else, you'll never make it through one of them.

Not quite sure about you Oah, but I can see a couple of those "personal attacks" you are complaining about in there somewhere

What is it, and why are you so vehemently opposed to this writer

[toptuan]

Can you tell me which kind of books lie under the definition of "good book"?

is there some people who their jobs is to categorize books as good or bad?

if so why books are not put within this categories in libraries and bookshops?

please can you answer me...so that I make sure that I am not mistaken again when choosing a book....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a very clever and humorous way, Glauka reminds us that even in books, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The evaluation "good book" is inextricably bound up in the personality and background of the critic. Few of us can separate our recommendations from the persons that we are. And, if you've got any nasty, contentious personalities, that's why these threads "erupt" into the same--probably the best answer to the opening question posed by our OP; and, maybe the best illustration of "coming full circle."

I feel like this thread has run its course, and I vote for closure.

(I feel so guilty wasting JBowman's time. )

Edited January 4, 2006 by toptuan

[bannork]

I agree with the aforementioned comment, I can't believe the acid thrower has started a hand wringing thread about personal literary slanging matches. Amazing Thailand lives on!

Perhaps the hand is suffering not only from age, but also from some kind of abuse.

[Ulysses G.]

I feel like this thread has run its course, and I vote for closure.

All good things have to come to an end.

[gburns57au]

We all have different tastes in music, movies, literature etc etc....

Nobody can be truly right and nobody truly wrong as it is what we enjoy as individuals.

Sometimes books can be controversial or even sensationalised for purposes of sales, others can be filled with facts and well researched theories. Some people will read a poorly written book and declare it a great read, others will read a powerfully written book and declare it as boring.

However what gets up my nose is when a book comes out and people suddenly declare a work of fiction as being as being a solid factual account of reality. We all read books and relate to that book as to how we perceive life to be, we put ourselves in the position of the hero or the baddy, When this happens we cross the line between fantasy and reality, and why not???.....reading is escapism at its best.

But to judge a book, you have to be objective....you cant just say I found it to be true or I found it to be realistic based on your life experiences. because your life experiences are not the same as someone elses. Most people if they enjoy a book or a movie, lose the objective stance because they have formed a prejudcial viewpoint.

Most people read a book or watch a movie and say its great because it made me feel good.....they dont analyse the book beyond that.

[jing jing]

I've got no dog in this fight, but it is interesting how folks' egos are tied up in the sorts of books they read and enjoy. It seems that if someone says "I really enjoyed Book A" and then another person responds "that book is an unmitigated steaming pile of excrement with no redeeming social value whatsoever and only a mental patient would find it the least bit interesting," well, maybe the person who said he liked the book would feel as though there was a bit of a personal attack contained within the "innocent" book review.

As you were...

[sabaijai]

I think we've all said our piece.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think we've all said our piece.