coconutking Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 Thank you for your response. My wife met with the landlord, who has offered us the key money back and an extra 100,000 Baht. At this point, we do not have the ability of negotiating with the chain store, which was a dream anyway. We contacted the previous owner, who is a good friend, and a relative who is also a police officer, and asked their opinion of the deal. Everyone said the same thing. “Tell this guy you want your profit money for the extent of the contract, plus key money.” That would be about 3.1 million Baht. He is currently offering 400,000 Baht. You can now see a bit of a pinch with us. The police officer that is a relative assured us there would be no problems with me, as I am not into anything even remotely illegal, and my name is not on anything. Your thoughts please. Thanks again for your thoughts. I mentioned earlier that it would be an idea to have a person of standing with your wife this evening, would your police relative be prepared to get involved? When your faced with a big dog, get a bigger dog. My police relative is in one district. The landlord is a detective in another district, and I live in a different district from those. So, other than advice, I don’t know if he can help. What do you think? Can he help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Thank you for your response. My wife met with the landlord, who has offered us the key money back and an extra 100,000 Baht. At this point, we do not have the ability of negotiating with the chain store, which was a dream anyway. We contacted the previous owner, who is a good friend, and a relative who is also a police officer, and asked their opinion of the deal. Everyone said the same thing. “Tell this guy you want your profit money for the extent of the contract, plus key money.” That would be about 3.1 million Baht. He is currently offering 400,000 Baht. You can now see a bit of a pinch with us. The police officer that is a relative assured us there would be no problems with me, as I am not into anything even remotely illegal, and my name is not on anything. Your thoughts please. Thanks again for your thoughts. I mentioned earlier that it would be an idea to have a person of standing with your wife this evening, would your police relative be prepared to get involved? When your faced with a big dog, get a bigger dog. My police relative is in one district. The landlord is a detective in another district, and I live in a different district from those. So, other than advice, I don’t know if he can help. What do you think? Can he help? i think this is is more or less the outcome everyone expected ,he wants his keys back and hes prepared to throw you a 100k to forget about the 4 year contract and you reckon that contract maybe worth 4 million give or take how far you can push a person like this this is a delicate matter ,especially in thailand given his rank as a mid rank detective ( very signifigant) and yours as a farang husband (minute,nil ) i wish i could say differnt but i doubt youre ever going to get 4 million out of this guy ,i would schedule another meeting (bring your police relation if possible ) and try and say gently that the original contract was worth more to you than 100k because bla bla bla and try and haggle a better settlement that is as far as id push it ,hiring a lawyer and landing a lawsuit on him would be an expensive mistake( win/lose or draw) and i reckon he would see it as a declaration of war if you pulled that kinda shit and his response could change life as you know it With a respectable thai Onboard ,you may be able to haggle him to somewhere between 0.5- 1mil but i would probably forget the 4+ million idea if i was you it would help if you knew how much he was gaining from the handover with the franchisee but youre never going to get near that information i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicbr Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) Your not being forced out of business your just relocating. Work out the costs for that ie key money, refitting, advertising etc then use that as a basis for negotiations. Tell him you need time to find new premises at this point he may offer to help to get you out quickly. Ask the family advice. I have found that when I butt in things invariably get confused. Good luck Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App Edited May 26, 2012 by thaicbr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubbaJohnny Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Ask how you value you continuing to live in range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Thank you for your response. My wife met with the landlord, who has offered us the key money back and an extra 100,000 Baht. At this point, we do not have the ability of negotiating with the chain store, which was a dream anyway. We contacted the previous owner, who is a good friend, and a relative who is also a police officer, and asked their opinion of the deal. Everyone said the same thing. “Tell this guy you want your profit money for the extent of the contract, plus key money.” That would be about 3.1 million Baht. He is currently offering 400,000 Baht. You can now see a bit of a pinch with us. The police officer that is a relative assured us there would be no problems with me, as I am not into anything even remotely illegal, and my name is not on anything. Your thoughts please. Thanks again for your thoughts. I mentioned earlier that it would be an idea to have a person of standing with your wife this evening, would your police relative be prepared to get involved? When your faced with a big dog, get a bigger dog. My police relative is in one district. The landlord is a detective in another district, and I live in a different district from those. So, other than advice, I don’t know if he can help. What do you think? Can he help? That really is Thai family business, I'm certain he will be consulted again by family members. Leave it to them to sort out the internal politics. You have to remember that the tom tom drums will be beating within the family, leave them alone to come up with a solution. Your role just now is to be a bystander and watch your kids, just as your doing. It's far better to be that than to be a bull in a china shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I don't really understand how people can tell the OP that he deserves 46 months worth of expected profits to be bought out of a lease contract and do chain stores really overpay for rent by such a wide margin that the property owner would ever pay 3.1m baht? Over 46 months that is 67k a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I think you need to give us some information about the business to better access the dificulty in moving and the potential decreases in profit expectation from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't really understand how people can tell the OP that he deserves 46 months worth of expected profits to be bought out of a lease contract and do chain stores really overpay for rent by such a wide margin that the property owner would ever pay 3.1m baht? Over 46 months that is 67k a month. Nail.. head. Guy just needs to get his key money back and some cost for advertising and relocating. Expecting future profits of 4 years is crazy. You are just moving not completely stopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) the landlord is probably going to buy you out of the deal Being realistic, the 100k offer is the best you can hope for. Forget about what the law says. The police guy is no doubt going to make a big profit out of the deal with the big store and he surely is not going to let your demands get in his way or reduce his profit margin. Suppose you refuse a deal unless you get all your key money and expected profits? What will you do if 20 guys turn up in the night and physically throw you out of your building? Go to Court?? You'll spend a whole load of money and time and worry on suing your landlord (and getting your damages from him). Sorry to sound harsh, but I really don't think you can get in the way of a police guy and his potential money, regardless of how big his smile is... Simon Edited May 27, 2012 by simon43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 well he was offered 400k not 100k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 the landlord is probably going to buy you out of the deal Being realistic, the 100k offer is the best you can hope for. Forget about what the law says. The police guy is no doubt going to make a big profit out of the deal with the big store and he surely is not going to let your demands get in his way or reduce his profit margin. Suppose you refuse a deal unless you get all your key money and expected profits? What will you do if 20 guys turn up in the night and physically throw you out of your building? Go to Court?? You'll spend a whole load of money and time and worry on suing your landlord (and getting your damages from him). Sorry to sound harsh, but I really don't think you can get in the way of a police guy and his potential money, regardless of how big his smile is... Simon I broadly agree with you Simon43, I have made it clear to the the OP that he must not be confrontational with the landlord, he will lose. Hence the spoonfull of sugar clip. It turns out that the OP has a Thai police relative, big dog, bigger dog? Maybe, probably unlikely, however it's good news in the respect that there is someone of standing in the family. The OP should leave it to the Thais in his family to sort it out. They'll be sounding out all possibilities and contacts. All the OP can do is be a supportive bystander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taninthai Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I would not bring the other familly police officer into it high ranking people from one province do not like high ranking people coming from another province to interfere in their business I know a guy that tried this with immigration the immigration woman simply asked/told the guy from the other province to leave the table while disscussions were going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 why not tell us about the business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 well he was offered 400k not 100k yes ,but he paid 300k to get the keys and the 4 year contract hes now being refunded that 300k and another 100k basically as a GOODWILL GESTURE to fuc_k off so the landlord can sell to the multinational instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Same thing happened my x-gf father in europe he had a house worth 50-100k and town planners decided to build a new retail park behind it anyway ,they needed to clear his house so they could make a entrance road to the new retail park , he stuck to his guns and told them hed lived there for 20 years and built the house with his bare hands etc and rejected the innitial offers eventually ,he got a million quid to let them bulldoze it (x 10-20 times the going rate for a property, big money way back then ,around 20 years ago ) of course ,this situation is very differnt since the op doesnt own the land ,he just has a short lease entitling him to trade upon it so he cant hang on like the old man did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconutking Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hello. In the OP I stated that “we think” a large chain is looking at our spot. None of this was mentioned at the meeting last night, only that he wanted to pay us, and have us leave. He has now told us, and everyone else, that he wants to add a floor to the building which may render our space useless during the construction, and that he “might” contact us after the construction is finished. Based on this information, which no one believes, the family is suggesting my wife cordially ask to remain, and we will put up with any inconvenious that the construction may bring. Even if we had to close for weeks or a few months. Two things can happen at this point: 1. He will go along with it, and end of problem. 2. He will have to come clean with what “we think” is really going on. And that, in itself can go a few directions. I want to leave this guy an out that he can be proud of, but I don’t know what that is. Losing the spot will also directly affect a second business we have, as we use this spot to advertise for the second business. That will cause us to lay off a few employees too. Moving the location is really not an option, we have the perfect spot, and competition is high in any other area. Family and friends have also pointed out that my connection to the business is so distant, that I should not worry about having any sort of an “accident.”. If that’s true, I still worry for my wife, who is pretty set on presenting the “we will deal with the construction” plan. What do you think? Play stupid and just ask about staying during the construction, allowing him to determine the next move? Take the 400 and run? Negotiate for a little more, to cover some other real costs? Something else??? Thanks for your time. I am grateful for all the responses. Simon43: Your not being harsh. I need honest answers, and that is what you gave me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Trust your wife. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I suppose you can stay and watch the "construction " but bear in mind the " construction work excuse and the 100.000 thb gift " may have been his way of saving face to get you to leave without a fuss how can he save his face if you decide to sit tight for 4 years ? will be interesting ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 what do u mean all other locations have competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) also, does the contract allow him to do construction which will render your rented location useless? i would just say, "No, you cannot do construction" by saying yes do your construction you are letting him know how soft and scared you are of him. Edited May 27, 2012 by farang000999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 what do u mean all other locations have competition? like if hes selling ice creams in an area that dosnt have any ice cream shops closeby but moving further up or down the road WILL have competition from other ice cream shops etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poke Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You got in business with the cops, so your mistake. Take the 400K and go. Next offer will be one you can't refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shot Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You got in business with the cops, so your mistake. Take the 400K and go. Next offer will be one you can't refuse. And, you are some sort of expert in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) Perhaps the OP has good reasons to have concerns. Does he legally own or have shares in the business? If not than he has no chance and the original contract means nothing. Edited May 27, 2012 by Beetlejuice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 just get out you have no chance and forget doing any business here ever if it involves a Thai now I know people who have made a business work but only when they have bought premises not rented all others in end got screwed one way or another> TIT no law will protect you but if you want to think otherwise feel free to do so. If you can get 1/2 what you paid youll be lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Great advise above from theblether , My father was in sales all his life and seemed to always get the highest price ,on whT ever deal he was doing ,using politeness and class is the way forward ,let the other guy always think he is winning Starting an argument is a sure fire way of getting his hackles up and then he might resort to anyway to get out of that contract with you @ the blether ,tell the story anyway ,I am naive and believe most things I'm told Great advise above from theblether , My father was in sales all his life and seemed to always get the highest price ,on whT ever deal he was doing ,using politeness and class is the way forward ,let the other guy always think he is winning Starting an argument is a sure fire way of getting his hackles up and then he might resort to anyway to get out of that contract with you @ the blether ,tell the story anyway ,I am naive and believe most things I'm told good god you all talk as if youve never lived in Thailand this is not USA or UK it is Thailand and here forang hardly ever win. Chances of getting more than youve put in are IMO 1 in millions If you can walk out with 50% back your lucky but good luck you might be one of lucky ones. Id never ever lease here for a business total madness IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soi41 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Perhaps the OP has good reasons to have concerns. Does he legally own or have shares in the business? If not than he has no chance and the original contract means nothing. Hello! We are not talking PTT or Banpu here, but a small family business, where the wife probably are sole owner and holder of the leasecontract. What I don't understand is, that not any of the "experts" here have reacted to the 4 year leasecontract, Any leases more than 3 years have to be signed on the chanote by the landoffice to be valid. So with a maybe not valid lease, and 99% sure no receipt for the keymoney, I would take whatever this guy offers you. Ofcourse try to get more than the 400k on offer and do NOT vacate the premises until the money sits in your bankaccount ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 well he was offered 400k not 100k yes ,but he paid 300k to get the keys and the 4 year contract hes now being refunded that 300k and another 100k basically as a GOODWILL GESTURE to fuc_k off so the landlord can sell to the multinational instead well he was offered 400k not 100k yes ,but he paid 300k to get the keys and the 4 year contract hes now being refunded that 300k and another 100k basically as a GOODWILL GESTURE to fuc_k off so the landlord can sell to the multinational instead as i said hes lucky he gets his money back IMO take it and move on if not he might get nothing but up to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Same thing happened my x-gf father in europe he had a house worth 50-100k and town planners decided to build a new retail park behind it anyway ,they needed to clear his house so they could make a entrance road to the new retail park , he stuck to his guns and told them hed lived there for 20 years and built the house with his bare hands etc and rejected the innitial offers eventually ,he got a million quid to let them bulldoze it (x 10-20 times the going rate for a property, big money way back then ,around 20 years ago ) of course ,this situation is very differnt since the op doesnt own the land ,he just has a short lease entitling him to trade upon it so he cant hang on like the old man did Same thing happened my x-gf father in europe he had a house worth 50-100k and town planners decided to build a new retail park behind it anyway ,they needed to clear his house so they could make a entrance road to the new retail park , he stuck to his guns and told them hed lived there for 20 years and built the house with his bare hands etc and rejected the innitial offers eventually ,he got a million quid to let them bulldoze it (x 10-20 times the going rate for a property, big money way back then ,around 20 years ago ) of course ,this situation is very differnt since the op doesnt own the land ,he just has a short lease entitling him to trade upon it so he cant hang on like the old man did again another stupid forang not understanding this is Thailand not west and tihngs are not same here over 17+ years living here as saying goes if I had 1$ for every forang here who thought they could apply west law logic or anything here id be super rich and if I had 5$ for each who tried and cost them life. limb or tons of cash id probably be a multi millionaire. Please this is not west TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You got in business with the cops, so your mistake. Take the 400K and go. Next offer will be one you can't refuse. And, you are some sort of expert in this area? no probably someone whose lived here a long time like me but ive fought police here and gained a little victory but always made sure they could claim they won to save face Funny thing is they will never understand they lost but thats a very long story. YOu have to know game here and play to their vanity and use their loss of face thing to win advantage it works many times believe me but a very dangerous game which can backfire badly however even if it does I have enough to calm things but you must pay early if you suddenly see its going bad or it gets very expensive further up line. Its great fun playing these games but ever try it if you dont understand 100% face thing and to win always make them think they have won. Its magic as long as you keep calm and dont mind loosing face you will have great fun but dont ever dream of getting a fair deal and dont listen to those who have never lived in real Thai villages or had dealings with hisos. They are all same vanity vanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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