Bill Heinecke On CNBC Asia At 5Pm Today June 2, 2012

[george]

Tune in to CNBC Asia at 5pm (BKK time) today, long interview with a Super Farang, Bill Heinecke from Minor Group.

Who is Bil Heinecke?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Heinecke

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Super Farang? This guy is actually Thai if I remember correctly. Gave up his US citizenship after he made it big in biz.

Which I hope you realize doesn't make him any less a farang, just one of Thai nationality.

[farang000999]

did he really give up his usa passport?

[george]

did he really give up his usa passport?

Yes.

[DP25]

There are thousands of dual citizens of Thailand and the US, you don't have to give up one or the other

[Heng]

It certainly saves you a LOT on taxes though if you have that much revenue in public view.

Now for US citizens pretty much off the grid, no need to.............

[BigJohnnyBKK]

There are thousands of dual citizens of Thailand and the US, you don't have to give up one or the other

There has been recent discussion on this here, apparently in recent years the Thais added a requirement that new citizens sign a paper committing to renounce their other citizenship(s).

This doesn't apply to native-born Thais.

And there never was any clarification if there was any sign of a followup that the renunciation actually took place.

IMO just another ill-defined loophole giving them a way to undo your citizenship if they want to "crack down" in the future.

I would think Bill's got some pretty high-level Thai legal advisors, better than what's available to most of us 8-)

[Rancid]

My understanding is that US citizens renouncing citizenship is currently at all time highs, no doubt many are in Thailand. Doubt if it has anything to do with the fascist regimes' tracking down US citizens in every square inch of the planet to chase them for taxes on money they didn't even make at home (unlike equally fascist corporations paying bugger all tax of course). After all the banks need bailing, the deficit is out of control, the bureaucracy is swelling and God knows they can't ask the 1% super rich owners of said failed institutions to contribute. That would be well...UnAmerican!

I can only hope my country never becomes a similar jack booted totalitarian imitation of democracy the US has descended into. Think I'm full of it, fine, go back to sleep, tune into a reality TV show, all is fine CNBC etc or dare to think objectively and read your own US blogs.

[bangkapi]

He's the 23rd richest Thai on Forbes 2011 list.

A few years ago, he was in the top 10.

[samran]

did he really give up his usa passport?

Yes.

If he did indeed give it up, it was certainly not because Thailand forced him to - there isn't any requirement from Thailand for one to relinquish citizenship when naturalising as a Thai.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

My understanding is that US citizens renouncing citizenship is currently at all time highs, no doubt many are in Thailand. Doubt if it has anything to do with the fascist regimes' tracking down US citizens in every square inch of the planet to chase them for taxes on money they didn't even make at home (unlike equally fascist corporations paying bugger all tax of course). After all the banks need bailing, the deficit is out of control, the bureaucracy is swelling and God knows they can't ask the 1% super rich owners of said failed institutions to contribute. That would be well...UnAmerican!

I can only hope my country never becomes a similar jack booted totalitarian imitation of democracy the US has descended into. Think I'm full of it, fine, go back to sleep, tune into a reality TV show, all is fine CNBC etc or dare to think objectively and read your own US blogs.

Your terminology is completely over the top, but the gist is correct.

Note that taxing citizens on income wherever it is earned is not in itself an objectionable policy from some abstract ethical philosophy POV. The fact that is unusual among major developed nations doesn't make it wrong, just as being a redhead isn't normal but nothing to do with good or bad, just is what it is.

And to the comment about "under the radar", there will soon come a day when there's no such person or place, better to declare and keep legit if you ever intend to return, the threshold where you actually have to pay is pretty high so likely no tax is due, but you must file the forms every year on time - that's the way to stay under the radar, not ignoring the IRS and crossing your fingers.

[dantilley]

^^ But there might have been such a requirement back when he did it in the 90s. Also the requirement could have come the other way - the USA might not have permitted one of its citizens to take another citizenship without renouncing USA citizenship first.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited June 3, 2012 by dantilley

[BigJohnnyBKK]

there isn't any requirement from Thailand for one to relinquish citizenship when naturalising as a Thai.

There didn't used to be, but apparently there is now a requirement on one of the forms you sign that you commit to do so.

Apparently they don't follow up to check whether you did or not, and my theory is they leave it as a loophole so they can take it away later on the basis that you didn't follow through on your signed commitment.

This latter part is speculation, but apparently the first part is now fact.

^^ But there might have been such a requirement back when he did it in the 90s. Also the requirement could have come the other way - the USA might not have permitted one of its citizens to take another citizenship without renouncing USA citizenship first.

No, the US has definitely no problem whatsoever with dual nationals, except in the event that there is a conflict of interest and you are found to be acting on behalf of the other side.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Link to the interview

Edit - sorry just a teaser, anyone finding or uploading the whole thing please post, I'd be interested to see it.

Edited June 5, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[MrRealDeal]

You do not need to flie taxes in the usa if you do not owe, unless you sold something reported to the irs such as stocks. Since you don't need to file in the first place their is no reason to report "on time".

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You do not need to flie taxes in the usa if you do not owe, unless you sold something reported to the irs such as stocks. Since you don't need to file in the first place their is no reason to report "on time".

Have you got that information within the past few years from someone actually qualified to answer, like a CPA? Specifically pertaining to US citizens living, working and banking overseas?

Not my understanding, and also believe that what used to be just a nominal penalty for the crime of not filing - just a small fine, in the hundreds - is now much much stiffer, as in perhaps multiple thousands per year.

But I would really really really love to be proved wrong on this, as I haven't filed for well over a decade, after paying over a million USD in taxes over the previous decade I just fell off the edge of the world (there be monsters) as far as any computerized tracking systems are concerned.

Edited June 6, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[thaihome]

Basically if you make less than $9,500 a year and are exempt from FICA payments, you do not need to file. With the foreign bank account filing requirements and the $9,500 a year being about 20k baht a month, one has to wonder how somebody survives living overseas without being legally required to file.

I do think that unless you have a large deposit in a foreign bank that you are living off of, there is little chance the systems will ever catch up to you. Though right now, you cannot be denied a US passport if owing taxes, there is an amendment to a pending bill that stop you from getting a passport (or renewal) if you owed more than $50k to the IRS.

The US tax structure for foreign income is very misunderstood. The US does not double tax your foreign income. They require you to report it, some $90k is excluded, and any foreign tax you paid on the amount above the $90k is credited against whatever US tax you owe. What this means is if the foreign tax rate is less than what the US tax rate is for your income level, you will pay the difference to the IRS. If the foreign tax rate is higher, you do not owe the US anything.

TH

[MrRealDeal]

This info comes from the IRS itself .... and you could easily go to irs.gov and see for yourself. Look under the section "who has to file" in the 1040 instructions Chart A , and special situations Chart C The penalty for not filing is obviously nothing if you don't have to. And the penalty for not filing if you do have to is the same as it's always been. Living or working overseas is not relevant to the tax form itself aside from the exemptions you might get, however their is a place for overseas banking and the intrest you may have received. You are requited to file with the Treasury dept for any overseas accounts over 10,000 but it's not an IRS issue it's a Treasury Dept issue and a treasury dept form due at the end of this month ..... It's really pretty simple stuff if you just read the forms, but like I said I talked personally to the IRS.

More than 400$ in self employment is a requirement in Chart C as are a few other strange reasons.

Basically is correct, but Chart C is what chages it from basicly to actually, Chart C has the rest of the weird reasons we sometimes forget to mention

Edited June 6, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[MrRealDeal]

PS the penalty for not filing is it puts you into the fraud catagory so you can't make any special deals like an offer in compromise , you owe the tax , you can figure your penalty by looking at the instructions and you owe that , and then you owe intrest as long as you don't pay it, and intrest on the intrest as you go along !

The penalty is based on what you owe not based on some hundred or thousands random or otherwise figure, and is pretty much the same as it was 20 years ago when I fessed up and paid my 5 years of back taxes ..... the penaltys and intrest and intrest on the intrest along with the actual tax ended up to be about 4 times the actual tax alone.

In your situation the IRS would put a lien on your estate without telling you and hope to recoup the losses upon your death which the way you describe things they won't be able to.

Edit: That would assume they had a basis to think you owed them something not just because you dissapeared.

Edited June 6, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[BigJohnnyBKK]

PS the penalty for not filing is it puts you into the fraud catagory so you can't make any special deals like an offer in compromise , you owe the tax , you can figure your penalty by looking at the instructions and you owe that , and then you owe intrest as long as you don't pay it, and intrest on the intrest as you go along !

The penalty is based on what you owe not based on some hundred or thousands random or otherwise figure, and is pretty much the same as it was 20 years ago when I fessed up and paid my 5 years of back taxes ..... the penaltys and intrest and intrest on the intrest along with the actual tax ended up to be about 4 times the actual tax alone.

In your situation the IRS would put a lien on your estate without telling you and hope to recoup the losses upon your death which the way you describe things they won't be able to.

Edit: That would assume they had a basis to think you owed them something not just because you dissapeared.

Thanks to all sorry to hijack the thread.

I do have many bank accounts, maybe have had over USD 10,000 like eight years ago but not since then.

Income has never even hit $20,000 in that time.

So looks like no actual tax has been owed.D

Does that mean I can just start filing any year I like and assume I'm back in good graces if I head home in few years?

I had assumed I'd need some money ready to pay up when I next initiated contact with them.

[Johnniey]

http://www.hipcast.com/podcast/HcNCJb

Audio only

[MrRealDeal]

If in fact you did not owe OR they don't know you owe even if you did, it would be just fine to file this year even if you don't have to just like the last 8 years would have been the same. Pay up for what ? Like I said any penalty is based on a calculation based on what you owed and didn't pay...... If you didn't owe I don't see what you are worried about paying up for , selling stocks can make it look like you owe and not filing will create a bill but you can file for that year without penalty as long as you didn't owe for other reasons.

Once again their is NO penalty for not filing if you don't owe , however as in the stock situation of you sold a million in stocks and didnt tell them you paid a million that would create a million dollar tax liability , but they would send you a letter telling you to file before worrying about it.

And if you owe and they know it and the meter has been running better to find out sooner than later , but even then they are not going to do anything but send you a bill. And you can decide if you want to pay it or not then.

I would if I were you, call and ask if you are required to file the overseas income exemption in order to get it , because if you are and you didn't file, the 20K would be partially taxable , but I believe they would let you file whats called an amended return because you would not have owed had you filed the proper forms , thats pretty much how they operate , a mistake that cost you over a form or something like that can be corrected with an amended return and it's all good...... As long as the amended return's tax liability is ZERO. (in your case) .... in other cases it still helps.

[MrRealDeal]

I am calling for you now ....... 10 min on hold you owe me a beer at 30 min ! Advanced individual bla bla bla dept ... TO complex for the first lady ....... Actually you did need to file in order to get the exemption , I said no to self employment and no to bisiness or moving expenses ...... She is asking me a long list of questions to see if you can just file and be ok. .... on hold again ..... but you did need to file even though your liability would have been zero ..... no to forien housing deduction .... 2555ez must be filed .... I went back to 2007 ..... but she said you can go back to 2005 ...... So the upshot is that as long as you file the 1040 and the 2555ez (the income exemption form) for all the years you didn't file , like I said you will be fine .... no need for the amended route as you cant amend what you didint file but as long as the liability is zero their is no penalty ...... this might not last forever ..... longer than 10 years will probabbly put you into a catagory that would make you liable to losing the exemption that gives you zero liability and the 20k might be taxable and then you would owe the tax and penalty ect ..... I didnt push that issue ! But I asked or mentioned that if it went on forever I would lose this ability to simply file and be fine and she said yes.

Pretty much a pain to file 8 years of tax forms but if you do you are in the clear ....... i also said none of it was self employment but my guess is that wouldn't matter .... also I said you were in thailand for the whole year (340 days is the same as 365) but even if you weren't they only take part of the exemption from the 85K so you should be fine.

Also I should clarify their is no MONETARY penalty for not filing but you could possibly lose this exemption for not filing for whtever number of years the maximum is that she didnt specify and I didn't make her answer, and that would create a liability and a subsequesnt penalty, tax on 10-15K is pretty much nothing even without the exemption, the standard deductions and personal exemption are about 8,000 and tax on the 2K to 10K left over is about 10 percent so say 500 bucks even without the 85K exemption so all told you are not all that bad off even if they were hard cases and would not have let you file the first time with no penalty.

Good News for you now get your pencil out and get busy ! lol

Edited June 6, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Thanks for going to all that trouble.

Well over ten years now, nearly all was "self-employment" if we're talking billing customers for computer consulting, English tutoring, websites etc.

Haven't kept much in the way of records, but all my bank accounts show very little flow, pretty much been living hand-to-mouth.

Thought the cut-off was 7 years, statute of limitations, can't audit farther back than that?

If I do ever get a round tuit it won't be fun, sounds like I should have a "spare" couple thousand readies to be able to pay the bills, probably best to do one year at a time working backwards and in the meantime keep current. . .

[MrRealDeal]

They can audit because you didnt file ..... so the 7 years would start when you did actually file , I thought that to but was wrong and had to actually pay because I did owe, it was 15 years later ...... but seriously you really wont owe if you just file the forms ! lol .... I could see the computer questionaire she was using didnt care what any of the answers were as far as being able to straighten it out, they were just to tell what form you need for self employment for example , the real question was yes before we even started with the questions.

No problem I was curious about it myself ..... I have dealt with them and this is another example of how you can get away with a lot more than people think and they are actually pretty nice about helping people ..... As long as you are not claiming ot be a Soverign Nation unto yourself and tell them to go jump in the lake !