How Are Your Investments Doing?

[Naam]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

how are the dividends taxed? flat tax of 10% like normal Thai share or individual income tax return?

[soi41]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

how are the dividends taxed? flat tax of 10% like normal Thai share or individual income tax return?

Flat tax of 10%.

[letitbe]

6k$ loss sorry thats very little. Looking at our losses and wins since crash in 2008 were just about trading water but its hard going

Since 2008

Gold up around 30%+ this has saved our investments even though it was in 2008 only around 5% and now around 25% of our total assets

Shares Around 15% down SOme down as much as 90% others up 60%

Property Down around 20% but we have not lost on any sold property mainly because weve held them for 20 + years

Income down around 30-35% mainly due to fall in GBP and US$ to some extent but also due heavily to a big switch from income producing assets to gold and silver

WE will continue until the world is sorted to hold at least 20-25% in gold and silver and continue to add to this by selling shares and property. We are diversified with assets in USA UK Singapore and Hong Kong and here plus a bit offshore. We are not super rich but spread what we have very thinly. Our income has now deteriorated to under my golden rule of never

spending more than your income but im breaking that rule for next 2-5 years and will need to eat into our capital by around 5% to maintain a good lifestyle. However we have no debt

and biggest expense is 2 kids at school here (around 50,000 baht a month) which in 5 years we will not need to spend. We have already set aside investments for them to cover

university we hope.

Its really tough and im sure a lot of people with investments are eating into their capital and even worse borrowing to maintain a high life style

[letitbe]

If anyone is in bonds, it is looking like a time to move out as inflation and interest rate rise will crush bond values.

The world has experienced a large devaluation of currencies around the world, but upcoming interest rate rise (historically occurs after the recession ends) will probably be worse than normal since the currency injections have been so massive.

Since Greece, Italy and Spain (so far) haven't solved their core problems, interest rate rise in these countries is indicative of future increases around the world.

With the US currently borrowing 40 cents of every dollar being spent, and no end in sight (currently) to the > $ 1 Trillion annual deficits, the economic condition is a ticking time bomb once interest rates start to rise.

This era of artificiality cheap loans won't last forever and the rebound from the flood of money injection is going to be ugly.

I don't care about bond vaules. The bonds I hold, I bought for their interest rates. The value of the bond is not an issue if I hold to maturity.

If anyone is in bonds, it is looking like a time to move out as inflation and interest rate rise will crush bond values.

The world has experienced a large devaluation of currencies around the world, but upcoming interest rate rise (historically occurs after the recession ends) will probably be worse than normal since the currency injections have been so massive.

Since Greece, Italy and Spain (so far) haven't solved their core problems, interest rate rise in these countries is indicative of future increases around the world.

With the US currently borrowing 40 cents of every dollar being spent, and no end in sight (currently) to the > $ 1 Trillion annual deficits, the economic condition is a ticking time bomb once interest rates start to rise.

This era of artificiality cheap loans won't last forever and the rebound from the flood of money injection is going to be ugly.

I don't care about bond vaules. The bonds I hold, I bought for their interest rates. The value of the bond is not an issue if I hold to maturity.

sorry are you not aware of inflation so it is a great issue at least for some of us. but if your happy that what you put in say 5 years ago and it matures in 5 years will only buy 1/2 or maybe much less. Your logic is the one thing which will totally destroy most peoples wealth.

[letitbe]

weve been getting around 8-12% on good condos in Bangkok Here and Pattaya for last 15 years and with drop in GBP its been best investment weve made. but you do need to know what your doing and we still have property in UK yielding only 3-4% after tax and outgoings based on current estimated values. However yields here based on estimated current values for property we have left is probably only 6% or so. Weve sold a lot and moved it out to Singapore and Hong Kong and put it into gold and silver in HOng Kong and stocks in Singapore. We are still selling our property here due to our perceived political risk and a view that condo market is entering a big new bubble here.

IMO anyone putting money into government bonds is nuts (sorry). Sorry you might win short/medium term but long term you will be crucified by inflation.

[yoshiwara]

weve been getting around 8-12% on good condos in Bangkok Here and Pattaya for last 15 years and with drop in GBP its been best investment weve made. but you do need to know what your doing and we still have property in UK yielding only 3-4% after tax and outgoings based on current estimated values. However yields here based on estimated current values for property we have left is probably only 6% or so. Weve sold a lot and moved it out to Singapore and Hong Kong and put it into gold and silver in HOng Kong and stocks in Singapore. We are still selling our property here due to our perceived political risk and a view that condo market is entering a big new bubble here.

IMO anyone putting money into government bonds is nuts (sorry). Sorry you might win short/medium term but long term you will be crucified by inflation.

Are you not finding the market sticky?

[letitbe]

weve been getting around 8-12% on good condos in Bangkok Here and Pattaya for last 15 years and with drop in GBP its been best investment weve made. but you do need to know what your doing and we still have property in UK yielding only 3-4% after tax and outgoings based on current estimated values. However yields here based on estimated current values for property we have left is probably only 6% or so. Weve sold a lot and moved it out to Singapore and Hong Kong and put it into gold and silver in HOng Kong and stocks in Singapore. We are still selling our property here due to our perceived political risk and a view that condo market is entering a big new bubble here.

IMO anyone putting money into government bonds is nuts (sorry). Sorry you might win short/medium term but long term you will be crucified by inflation.

Are you not finding the market sticky?

weve been getting around 8-12% on good condos in Bangkok Here and Pattaya for last 15 years and with drop in GBP its been best investment weve made. but you do need to know what your doing and we still have property in UK yielding only 3-4% after tax and outgoings based on current estimated values. However yields here based on estimated current values for property we have left is probably only 6% or so. Weve sold a lot and moved it out to Singapore and Hong Kong and put it into gold and silver in HOng Kong and stocks in Singapore. We are still selling our property here due to our perceived political risk and a view that condo market is entering a big new bubble here.

IMO anyone putting money into government bonds is nuts (sorry). Sorry you might win short/medium term but long term you will be crucified by inflation.

Are you not finding the market sticky?

yes now it is which is why we've been selling but its still ok. Id rather put money into gold even with loss of income until more stable times come both here and most places in the world. Our main concern is inflation and currency debasement.

[Naam]

sorry are you not aware of inflation so it is a great issue at least for some of us. but if your happy that what you put in say 5 years ago and it matures in 5 years will only buy 1/2 or maybe much less. Your logic is the one thing which will totally destroy most peoples wealth.

for the record: a bond with any maturity, e.g. 30 years can be bought at 08.30 and sold at 08.35 hours, no need to wait for maturity.

assumptions that any "fiat" money will be worth only half or even less in 5 years are nothing but... assumptions and not based on tangible facts.

moreover, these assumptions do not take into consideration that during these 5 years interest is paid, presently in a number of (what the market considers risky) cases amounting to 100% of the invested capital.

last not least, the gurus beg to differ whether for years to come we will have inflation or deflation. on top of that, inflation is something that is individually totally different.

-somebody who lives under a roof he owns does not care about rent increases and if he is a well off indivual who spends 250k Baht a month doesn't care whether the prices for rice, pork, chicken and spices have doubled because it is a tiny percentage of his expenses.

whereas

-for his gardener, making 8k Baht a month, and spends 60% of his income for rent and to feed his family it means a catastrophy.

[Naam]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

how are the dividends taxed? flat tax of 10% like normal Thai share or individual income tax return?

Flat tax of 10%.

thanks!

[craigt3365]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

Edited June 18, 2012 by craigt3365
added P.S.

[yoshiwara]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

Couldn't agree less. You have the same opportunity to make a decision. Its just that many retail investors run for cover when prices go low and jump in when stock prices look good. You can see this scenario playing out in these threads. ie how do I play safe?, how can I avoid risk?, where is the place of safety? and so on. The counter-intuitive play is to enter the market when it is down and looks awful. Warren Buffet and sovereign investment funds know full well that certain opportunities only present themselves when the markets are seemingly in disarray. The retail investor 'regrets' not having done something after the market turns and console themselves that they weren't privy to opportunities when in fact they were staring them in the face. What the retail investor wants cannot be had: zero or very low risk with good returns. Can't have it. Some think they can by hiding under the gold play but 'no have'.

[craigt3365]

Couldn't agree less. You have the same opportunity to make a decision. Its just that many retail investors run for cover when prices go low and jump in when stock prices look good. You can see this scenario playing out in these threads. ie how do I play safe?, how can I avoid risk?, where is the place of safety? and so on. The counter-intuitive play is to enter the market when it is down and looks awful. Warren Buffet and sovereign investment funds know full well that certain opportunities only present themselves when the markets are seemingly in disarray. The retail investor 'regrets' not having done something after the market turns and console themselves that they weren't privy to opportunities when in fact they were staring them in the face. What the retail investor wants cannot be had: zero or very low risk with good returns. Can't have it. Some think they can by hiding under the gold play but 'no have'.

Sorry, but lot's of investment opportunities are not available to "normal" investors. Ever get in on an IPO? Not unless you're a big player. Us "normal" investors only get to buy in after it's released and the price goes crazy. Guaranteed profit for the few who get in beforehand.

Research what Buffet buys. He gets stocks you can not buy. One reason he does so well. But if your investing millions/billions, then I guess you should get special treatment?

I use to work at Morgan, Goldman, Citi, etc for many years (IT department). Knew quite a few traders. If you're a high level investor, lots of opportunities out there. They weren't interested in talking with me.

[Gary A]

I am firmly of the opinion that the stock market is no place for the average investor. The markets are manipulated by the big traders at the expense of the small holders. I held a lightly traded stock and the stock price could be manipulative up or down by a single big trade. These people are known as pumpers and dumpers. They do exist.

Mutual funds are probably safer but I hate the idea of someone being paid big money to lose my money. I am perfectly capable of losing my money myself.

[craigt3365]

I am firmly of the opinion that the stock market is no place for the average investor. The markets are manipulated by the big traders at the expense of the small holders. I held a lightly traded stock and the stock price could be manipulative up or down by a single big trade. These people are known as pumpers and dumpers. They do exist.

Mutual funds are probably safer but I hate the idea of someone being paid big money to lose my money. I am perfectly capable of losing my money myself.

100% agree. I have a good friend who just took all him money away from some money manager. Not sure who, but he said in 10 years he has lost money and the fees really eat into that. Like you, she said he knows how to lose money quite well.... I'm in the same boat. It's just fund managers that are doing the losing for me.

[yoshiwara]

Couldn't agree less. You have the same opportunity to make a decision. Its just that many retail investors run for cover when prices go low and jump in when stock prices look good. You can see this scenario playing out in these threads. ie how do I play safe?, how can I avoid risk?, where is the place of safety? and so on. The counter-intuitive play is to enter the market when it is down and looks awful. Warren Buffet and sovereign investment funds know full well that certain opportunities only present themselves when the markets are seemingly in disarray. The retail investor 'regrets' not having done something after the market turns and console themselves that they weren't privy to opportunities when in fact they were staring them in the face. What the retail investor wants cannot be had: zero or very low risk with good returns. Can't have it. Some think they can by hiding under the gold play but 'no have'.

Sorry, but lot's of investment opportunities are not available to "normal" investors. Ever get in on an IPO? Not unless you're a big player. Us "normal" investors only get to buy in after it's released and the price goes crazy. Guaranteed profit for the few who get in beforehand.

Research what Buffet buys. He gets stocks you can not buy. One reason he does so well. But if your investing millions/billions, then I guess you should get special treatment?

I use to work at Morgan, Goldman, Citi, etc for many years (IT department). Knew quite a few traders. If you're a high level investor, lots of opportunities out there. They weren't interested in talking with me.

I am sure that if you had been a stunningly beautiful blonde cleaning their keyboards they might have talked with you.

Yes I did get get in on an IPO many years ago. Tell Sid.

Buffet has massive firepower. One can just play that by proxy and invest in Berkshire Hathaway shares. Yes?

[craigt3365]

I am sure that if you had been a stunningly beautiful blonde cleaning their keyboards they might have talked with you.

Yes I did get get in on an IPO many years ago. Tell Sid.

Buffet has massive firepower. One can just play that by proxy and invest in Berkshire Hathaway shares. Yes?

Ha! Yes, that would have worked for sure. The traders are arrogant people. I was there with my friend who worked the trading floor help desk. A guy yelled at him peeled off a few hundred dollars and tossed it to him telling him to have him monitor fixed by the time he came back from lunch. Arrogant. But my friend was quite happy!

Uh...BRK-A would have been a great investment in 1990. Around 8k then, but now about 123k!!!! Too rich for my blood...I don't think they did well last year, but up about 10% over the past year or so.

[yoshiwara]

I am sure that if you had been a stunningly beautiful blonde cleaning their keyboards they might have talked with you.

Yes I did get get in on an IPO many years ago. Tell Sid.

Buffet has massive firepower. One can just play that by proxy and invest in Berkshire Hathaway shares. Yes?

Ha! Yes, that would have worked for sure. The traders are arrogant people. I was there with my friend who worked the trading floor help desk. A guy yelled at him peeled off a few hundred dollars and tossed it to him telling him to have him monitor fixed by the time he came back from lunch. Arrogant. But my friend was quite happy!

Uh...BRK-A would have been a great investment in 1990. Around 8k then, but now about 123k!!!! Too rich for my blood...I don't think they did well last year, but up about 10% over the past year or so.

IT Support were evil people. We received a message saying no more phone calls to report PC problems. You must complete a form online (so they can audit the work they said they were doing/not doing). ***** How the f***K are we supposed to report something to you if the PC is f**cking down? Do it. Management says so. Find a PC somewhere. Report the problem. Get back a message 'We are committed to an efficient service (or some such <deleted>) and guarantee to attend to this problem within 72 hours. Should all be boiled in oil. Present company excepted of course.

[craigt3365]

I am sure that if you had been a stunningly beautiful blonde cleaning their keyboards they might have talked with you.

Yes I did get get in on an IPO many years ago. Tell Sid.

Buffet has massive firepower. One can just play that by proxy and invest in Berkshire Hathaway shares. Yes?

Ha! Yes, that would have worked for sure. The traders are arrogant people. I was there with my friend who worked the trading floor help desk. A guy yelled at him peeled off a few hundred dollars and tossed it to him telling him to have him monitor fixed by the time he came back from lunch. Arrogant. But my friend was quite happy!

Uh...BRK-A would have been a great investment in 1990. Around 8k then, but now about 123k!!!! Too rich for my blood...I don't think they did well last year, but up about 10% over the past year or so.

IT Support were evil people. We received a message saying no more phone calls to report PC problems. You must complete a form online (so they can audit the work they said they were doing/not doing). ***** How the f***K are we supposed to report something to you if the PC is f**cking down? Do it. Management says so. Find a PC somewhere. Report the problem. Get back a message 'We are committed to an efficient service (or some such <deleted>) and guarantee to attend to this problem within 72 hours. Should all be boiled in oil. Present company excepted of course.

Hey! Don't shoot me! I just sold them the software!!! Working the support desk is a thankless job. But the traders got special attention. Whatever they wanted, they got. Period.

[Naam]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

so there's no confusion... i know some high level investors (and they know me) who'd be holding their bellies with laughter if somebody told them "Naam is a high level investor". applicable would be that i am "an above average investor as far as volume is concerned."

[soi41]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

so there's no confusion... i know some high level investors (and they know me) who'd be holding their bellies with laughter if somebody told them "Naam is a high level investor". applicable would be that i am "an above average investor as far as volume is concerned."

"as far as volume is concerned", not value ?? So you are trading in N-PARK and LIVE ?

[craigt3365]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

so there's no confusion... i know some high level investors (and they know me) who'd be holding their bellies with laughter if somebody told them "Naam is a high level investor". applicable would be that i am "an above average investor as far as volume is concerned."

It's all relative, right? Your circle of investor friends is a lot different than mine. I've been called an above average investor! I was holding my belly with laughter also....

[Naam]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

so there's no confusion... i know some high level investors (and they know me) who'd be holding their bellies with laughter if somebody told them "Naam is a high level investor". applicable would be that i am "an above average investor as far as volume is concerned."

It's all relative, right? Your circle of investor friends is a lot different than mine. I've been called an above average investor! I was holding my belly with laughter also....

like in sports, different leagues with different participants exist

[Naam]

And ofcourse those 2 "high level" investors were buying today, and whenever they tell you it is time to buy, they are selling making a nice profit. Whereas you (and me) and other "low level" investors are contributing to their wealth, by not being brave enough to bet against the market.

If you just want to beat inflation, and are not afraid to be invested in Thailand, buy CPNRF. 7%+ yearly dividend, paid quarterly. Traded on SET, high trade=easy to sell. Low pricespread buy/sell. Gave that advice to a couple of friends some years back, earns me a couple of bottles of the good stuff every X-mas.

Couldn't agree more. High level investors have access to a lot more opportunities than we do...uh...Naam excluded.

I like that idea of dividend paying stock. Great stuff.

P.S. So there's no confusion, I'm putting Naam into the group of high level investors. Where he deserves to be!

so there's no confusion... i know some high level investors (and they know me) who'd be holding their bellies with laughter if somebody told them "Naam is a high level investor". applicable would be that i am "an above average investor as far as volume is concerned."

"as far as volume is concerned", not value ?? So you are trading in N-PARK and LIVE ?

i have no idea who or what N-PARK or LIVE is; and when i say volume i mean $ € ¥ £ or whatever value. using the expression "volume" indicates -in my league - active investing with substantial and multiple turnover of a portfolio value.

any other question?

[yoshiwara]

i have no idea who or what N-PARK or LIVE is; and when i say volume i mean $ € ¥ £ or whatever value. using the expression "volume" indicates -in my league - active investing with substantial and multiple turnover of a portfolio value.

any other question?

IMHO a 'significant' trade kicks off at $US40K.

[letitbe]

sorry are you not aware of inflation so it is a great issue at least for some of us. but if your happy that what you put in say 5 years ago and it matures in 5 years will only buy 1/2 or maybe much less. Your logic is the one thing which will totally destroy most peoples wealth.

for the record: a bond with any maturity, e.g. 30 years can be bought at 08.30 and sold at 08.35 hours, no need to wait for maturity.

assumptions that any "fiat" money will be worth only half or even less in 5 years are nothing but... assumptions and not based on tangible facts.

moreover, these assumptions do not take into consideration that during these 5 years interest is paid, presently in a number of (what the market considers risky) cases amounting to 100% of the invested capital.

last not least, the gurus beg to differ whether for years to come we will have inflation or deflation. on top of that, inflation is something that is individually totally different.

-somebody who lives under a roof he owns does not care about rent increases and if he is a well off indivual who spends 250k Baht a month doesn't care whether the prices for rice, pork, chicken and spices have doubled because it is a tiny percentage of his expenses.

whereas

-for his gardener, making 8k Baht a month, and spends 60% of his income for rent and to feed his family it means a catastrophy.

sorry are you not aware of inflation so it is a great issue at least for some of us. but if your happy that what you put in say 5 years ago and it matures in 5 years will only buy 1/2 or maybe much less. Your logic is the one thing which will totally destroy most peoples wealth.

for the record: a bond with any maturity, e.g. 30 years can be bought at 08.30 and sold at 08.35 hours, no need to wait for maturity.

assumptions that any "fiat" money will be worth only half or even less in 5 years are nothing but... assumptions and not based on tangible facts.

moreover, these assumptions do not take into consideration that during these 5 years interest is paid, presently in a number of (what the market considers risky) cases amounting to 100% of the invested capital.

last not least, the gurus beg to differ whether for years to come we will have inflation or deflation. on top of that, inflation is something that is individually totally different.

-somebody who lives under a roof he owns does not care about rent increases and if he is a well off indivual who spends 250k Baht a month doesn't care whether the prices for rice, pork, chicken and spices have doubled because it is a tiny percentage of his expenses.

whereas

-for his gardener, making 8k Baht a month, and spends 60% of his income for rent and to feed his family it means a catastrophy.

i agree 100% but were happy not to bother with trading but longer term investing and at the moment IMO almost all asset classes are risky. So our insurance is gold and silver and we've accumulated enough that even if price went down in real terms (i mean it costs 2 x amount of gold for 1 x living expenses) we can survive on a much reduced living standard for 5 years while still keeping our other hard assets until better times. IMO gold and silver will give protection against inflation if it comes and if deflation then we think gold and silver will go down less in price than other assets. The problems IMO with say property (we have a fair bit) land (some) shares (we have reduced by 50% recently) is if you need money quickly all those are not always very liquid unless your prepared to take a massive hit. We dont trust any fiat money anywhere as it could crash to zero and consider our gold and silver simply a currency with no interest as insurance.

Ill leave all that clever trading stuff to you since im sure your far cleverer than I would ever be at it. I have occasionally dabbled in trying to do some trading but never risked more than 5-10k us$ and overall although fun found for us much better go with what in my life has worked very well.

[letitbe]

of course theirs no such thing as a 100% no risk investment but I dont go for best returns never have I try to determine the risk and always look at what possible worst case would mean. So for example in todays turmoil I am still buying more and more gold and silver and have done so since 2008. I then consider possible upside or benefits which wont always be gain or yield. So for example weve done condos here for 18 odd years or so and I would look at a unit say costing 2 million baht (having spent months researching on ground actual values) and then check likely yield (sop far 8-12% bur sometimes weve only got 6.5%) and chance of it being empty for long periods and then what if we really needed them money so consider downside risk of a loss of around 20-25% (if no civil war etc). Its worked for us. Gold is same I bought some more recently at 17,000 us$ an onz at 1600 at 1520 and on Friday at around 1580 knowing it could well drop to 1400 or even 1200 but considered the risk of it dropping back to say 800 almost but not zero.

However your 100% right IMO idiots who say cash in bank is risk free or government bonds re risk free will probably have their faith in that totally shattered within the next few years or earlier. Not only that many of those same people wont have any other assets as insurance such as gold or silver or property or land or shares or even warehouses of toilet paper.

[Naam]

i have no idea who or what N-PARK or LIVE is; and when i say volume i mean $ € ¥ £ or whatever value. using the expression "volume" indicates -in my league - active investing with substantial and multiple turnover of a portfolio value.

any other question?

IMHO a 'significant' trade kicks off at $US40K.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ albeit seen from my perspective and investment focus. OTC trading of HY (mostly emerging market) bonds starts at USD 100k. even then you are not very high on the priority list of a trader who will first try to execute higher bids/offers before he bothers with a 100k and starts making calls because his Bloomie screen does not show any bids or offers as low as 100k.

[yoshiwara]

i have no idea who or what N-PARK or LIVE is; and when i say volume i mean $ € ¥ £ or whatever value. using the expression "volume" indicates -in my league - active investing with substantial and multiple turnover of a portfolio value.

any other question?

IMHO a 'significant' trade kicks off at $US40K.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ albeit seen from my perspective and investment focus. OTC trading of HY (mostly emerging market) bonds starts at USD 100k. even then you are not very high on the priority list of a trader who will first try to execute higher bids/offers before he bothers with a 100k and starts making calls because his Bloomie screen does not show any bids or offers as low as 100k.

I am not referring to whether a bond trader wants to shake my hand or not. I am talking about a retail investor sitting in front of his/her online bank (or other) stock trading scheme. The reason I make reference to 40K (a figure not set in stone) is that trading in a stock with 40k allows one to make a buy/sell on 2.5% (=1000) or 1.25% (=500) shift in the stock price (noting stamp duty/commission). With 100k, the advantages are of course better. Sure it is possible to trade with smaller amounts but the margins just shrink too much to be worth it. The downside of course is one can get ripped.

Edited June 25, 2012 by yoshiwara

[mikekim1219]

I am moving all my asset from China to Thailand. I would be happy as a clam if I can 5% return without worrying about bottom falling out. Anybody have any good advice how I can do that?

[craigt3365]

I am moving all my asset from China to Thailand. I would be happy as a clam if I can 5% return without worrying about bottom falling out. Anybody have any good advice how I can do that?

It varies from week to week, but most banks here offer some sort of deal in the 3-3.5% range. Maybe higher if your investment horizon is a bit longer? Check out the banks websites for the latest deals.