Manchester United

[nev]

and then if we survive that one we might go to the dogs <deleted> bar for the chelsea game,not!!!

[muckypups]

I'm going up to Celtic fella, no ticket as yet but a load of us have sorted a resonable hotel. Hopefully I'll get a reasonable ticket too, oh and a more than reasonable result....

redrus

Happy days Red.. hope you manage a decent ticket.. when I think of blighty it's watching United I miss most..I'll be back for a week or two in December.. hopefully I'll get a couple of matches in.

I must say, I wish Fergie had run out the same team in Copenhagen that played so well against Bolton.. we could have secured the result, and then engaged tinkerbell mode.. Celtic will be a tough match, not to mention (a resurgent) Benfica, but I reckon we'll still qualify..

Meanwhile, this on Fergie's 20th anniversary from the Guardian..

Ferguson's United: one vision, two decades and a lot of silverware

The people who know him best reveal how Fergie has survived for 20 years at the top.

Ron Atkinson can still remember the exact time. It was 10.09am, November 6, 1986, when his car phone rang. The voice on the other end belonged to Pauline Temple, secretary to the Manchester United chairman Martin Edwards. "Ron," she said simply. "Could you pop into the ground? The chairman wants to see you. Right away, please!"

A few hours later, as Atkinson cleared out his belongings, sacked for his failure to win the league championship, a black Mercedes nosed into The Cliff, United's old training ground. Out stepped the 44-year-old Alex Ferguson, then just a plain old Mister, for the first day of the rest of his life. "Alex got all the players in the gym," Bryan Robson recalls of that seminal moment. "He said: 'Everyone has got a fresh start and a chance. If you play well in training you will make the team. I'll judge everybody as we go along.' He made a very good first impression."

It was a period of Merseyside football domination. United had not won the league since 1967 and carried the failure like a sack of bricks. The crowds had dropped below 40,000 and the team were next to bottom of Division One. A failing football club is a depressing place and Old Trafford in the 1980s was all simmering discontent.

"He came down the stairs to meet everyone and he was intent on making sure we all knew who the new manager was straight away," says Norman Whiteside, the former midfielder. "It was not so much what he said, as the tone of his voice. We knew he meant business."

Revolution to revulsion

Slowly but surely, the revolution began. The hard way. Ferguson was alarmed by what he heard of the players' nocturnal habits and he encouraged a snitch mentality, employing a network of contacts throughout a 20-mile radius of Manchester. "I'm running a football club, not a drinking club," he complained shortly after taking over. When his warnings went unheeded, with players turning up for training reeking of alcohol and with nicotine-stained fingers, he started to get rid of the worst offenders, starting with Whiteside and Paul McGrath.

"He made it clear what he wanted," says Robson, "so you either changed or you carried on what you were doing. He brought me in for a chat because I was captain and he said: 'I'm telling you now, I don't want drinking through the week. I want people to start cutting down on the alcohol because I don't like the stories I'm hearing.' I told the lads but he still heard stories about them. Inevitably, if anyone ignored him he would move them on."

Restoring true greatness to Old Trafford was always going to be a long, drawn-out process and, three years in, the recovery was not going as quickly as the fans wanted. "Resign now. Do the decent thing," one supporter, Teresa McDonald, wrote in a "crisis" issue of the fanzine Red News in December 1989. The crowd chanted "Bye-bye Fergie". One fan, Pete Molyneux, took an old bedsheet and a pot of paint and created a banner that has gone down in folklore: "3 YEARS OF EXCUSES AND IT'S STILL CRAP . . . TA-RA FERGIE."

The manager's job allegedly hung on the result of an FA Cup third-round tie at Nottingham Forest, one of the most feared teams of that era. United won 1-0, courtesy of a famous Mark Robins goal, yet Edwards argues the debate was never as cut and dried as was made out.

"If I had listened to the fans and taken notes of what they were writing in their letters, Alex would have been sacked," he says. "But I always had great faith in Alex, even when things were not going well. There was a lot of paper talk that the board would be considering his future. But it was never an issue with the board or me because we knew what was happening further down the club."

Golden Generation

Emboldened, Ferguson went into the 1990s promising "a decade of success." The trophies quickly followed. First the FA Cup, then the European Cup Winners' Cup, followed by the League Cup and, crucially, the first of his eight league championships.

He was showing himself to be the bravest manager of his time, and of probably any time. The youth system he had put in place was beginning to flower and in 1995 he dismantled his first great team to usher in the Golden Generation.

"The really big one was when Mark Hughes left," says Gary Neville, one of the players to break through. "He was a huge player for United. But the manager had great faith in us. He had Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt to replace Paul Ince, David Beckham to replace Andrei Kanchelskis, and me to replace Paul Parker. He had incredible faith in us, a belief we didn't even possess ourselves. He thought we were good enough but, at the time, it was a huge call for him to make. But that's what he does better than anyone. He makes those calls. And that team of kids went on to win the Double that season."

In 1999 they went even further, winning the league, the FA Cup and the European Cup. "He had a vision of young players, who grew up with the club, who loved the club and who had the spirit to take the club to a different level," says Neville. "In his early years at the club, Sir Matt Busby was still alive, he had an office here and the manager would talk to him. I am sure that played a part too."

Pre-Abramovich, Fergie's achievements were as solid as the Old Trafford stadium. At the height of his reign they had a photograph in the match-day programme - a rubbish skip outside the ground, overflowing with empty tins of silver polish.

Clinging to the top

Yet among all the accolades that will be bestowed on the 64-year-old over the coming week it would be remiss to ignore the fact that a little of the legend has begun to unravel over the last few years. Even putting aside the emergence of Chelsea, there was the Rock of Gibraltar saga, an argument with one of the club's biggest shareholders that indirectly resulted in the Glazer family's takeover. There have been questions about many of his signings and the way he has fallen out with so many A-list players. David Beckham and Roy Keane were both fed to the sharks. Ruud van Nistelrooy was the latest to be fitted with concrete boots.

There are many layers to Ferguson's personality, however, that get overlooked too often. For all his success, he is essentially a modest man. He never watches the videos of all those great triumphs, not even the Champions League final. And his reaction to this period of commemoration tells its own story. "My anniversary is hard to escape, though I must admit I am finding it hard to come to terms with," he says. "My first intention was not to pay any attention to it lest it confuse and distract me, but it has become obvious that it is something that is being thrust upon me whether I want it or not."

He does admit, however, to feeling "proud" when he reflects on the achievements of the last two decades, knowing that the club he is in control of now is virtually unrecognisable from the one he inherited.

In Andy Mitten's excellent account of United in the 1980s, We're the Famous Man United, the author remembers the club recording an attendance jump of 13,000 over two games, simply because the team had a chance of moving up to fourth if they beat Chelsea in a league game. The match finished 0-0.

Today, there will be nearly 76,000 shoehorned into Old Trafford for the visit of Portsmouth. United are top, with the best goal difference, playing the most attractive football. Somehow it feels appropriate.

[muckypups]

Half time and 2-0.. it really could/should be four or five.. great to watch.., and it seems clear that Gary Neville fancies a goal today. Well done Fergie.. 20 years and we're still producing great football. Imagine, when Fergie joined us Wayne Rooney was 1 year old!.. and now...

[muckypups]

Excellent. A routine second half.. seen off with with our third at just the right time. I'm really impressed with the way Evra and Vidic have played this season, Carrick too, looked very comfortable.. we really are on song at the moment..now.. come on you Spurs..

[nev]

another great result,we are playing some fantastic football at the moment.

that has to be our best 11 but when we brought oshea and fletcher and silvestre on we lost our shape.

our best ever start since 93/94. 28 out of 33 points,keep this up we will be there or there abouts at the end of the season.

scholes by far the best midfielder in england i just love this guy.

[muckypups]

Totally agree Nev.. and to think there was even talk last season of Scholes never playing again..

Meanwhile, match report from the Observer..:

Ronaldo sets tempo for Ferguson's anniversary waltz

Paul Wilson

Sunday November 5, 2006

The Observer

It cost £2.60 to get into Old Trafford when Sir Alex Ferguson took over. Quite a lot has changed over the past 20 years, although Portsmouth away from home are only worth watching at 1986 prices.

Ferguson lost his first match in charge to Oxford United - that is how much things have changed - but he could not have wished for an easier game for his anniversary. It is unbelievable that Portsmouth went into this game lying fourth in the Premiership table, they managed to make Bolton's 4-0 collapse last week look like stiff resistance. Bolton are even higher in the table, so draw your own conclusions about the state of the league. There is nothing wrong with the state of Manchester United, but you cannot get too excited about walkovers.

Presumably Harry Redknapp watched a video of United's awesome first half-hour against Bolton last week, so he must have been worried when Sir Alex Ferguson named an identical line-up after his unsuccessful tinkering in Copenhagen. Portsmouth employed a similar formation to the one Bolton used, with five in midfield and Benjani Mwaruwari on his own and hardly in the game up front, suggesting containment was their plan.

It never had a chance of working. Just like last Saturday United took a commanding early lead, although this time they did not need to stun their opponents with their passing and movement. Portsmouth put themselves two goals behind before Cristiano Ronaldo produced his first step-over. A quick throw by Gary Neville with barely a minute on the clock caught the Pompey defence so square that Dejan Stefanovic was obliged to check Wayne Rooney's smart run at the expense of a penalty, gratefully accepted by Louis Saha.

Portsmouth's other centre-back was at fault seven minutes later, when Andy O'Brien's late lunge at Saha's thigh brought a free-kick, superbly dispatched by Ronaldo from 25 yards. David James will watch the replays and wonder what else he could have done to counter the strike. It is not about bend or disguise with Ronaldo's free-kicks, it is all about speed, power and placement.

Naturally United sprayed the ball about with some panache after an opening like that, because they could. Portsmouth rather dumbly stuck to their single-striker formation and concentrated on keeping the score down, a task in which they were assisted by United's best chances falling to Neville. James made two smart saves in the first half from the United captain, although impressive as Neville's running was, one could not help feeling the outcome might have been different had opportunities fallen to Rooney.

In a sense it was too easy for United, with plenty of adventurous football on show but little real urgency to their attacks, and although Portsmouth offered scandalously little in the way of attempts to get back into the game, Edwin van der Sar needed to make an impressive reaction save just before the interval when a solid strike by Matthew Taylor reached him through a crowded penalty area.

Redknapp decided to abandon all caution at half time and sent out Andy Cole to reacquaint himself with his former fans, although the pattern of the game was now set. Rooney rolled a shot narrowly wide in the opening minutes of the second half after collecting a delightful backheel from Saha, and minutes later James made a superb close-range save from Nemanja Vidic when a goal looked certain.

Portsmouth's one decent chance to make United break sweat fell to Niko Kranjcar, who shanked a shot wastefully wide from a highly promising position on the hour.

Trying too hard to replicate what came easily and naturally last week, Rooney missed a couple more chances before United finally killed the game in the 66th minute, when Vidic rose to Neville's cross to confirm his value as a useful scorer as well as a reliable defender. Meet the new Steve Bruce.

A rare mistake by Van der Sar in the final minute presented Matthew Taylor with a sight of an open goal and an undeserved chance to make the scoreline more respectable. He missed. No one was surprised.

[muckypups]

This from the Independent in praise of Scholes...

Scholes supplies missing link to boys of '94

By Ronald Atkin at Old Trafford

Published: 05 November 2006

Short of having Owen Hargreaves delivered to his front door wrapped in red paper with matching ribbon, nothing will have delighted Sir Alex Ferguson more on this 20th anniversary weekend of his Manchester United managership than this season's return to the team, and to top form of course, of Paul Scholes.

How crucial a fit Scholes is to United's wellbeing. Though his role was mainly a quiet one in United's elegant dissection of Portsmouth, the quality of the man marked his every contribution. The centre circle is his operations room when battle was not raging at either end, and Scholes is the archetypal snaffler of midfield bits and pieces through his ability to anticipate not the next pass, but the one after that.

Though a shy man off the pitch, Scholes is not reticent about offering advice, or instruction, on it. When he feels a defender should bring the ball out, Scholes beckons him on, ushering him forward before taking up position to take the move on with the minimum of effort. Not that he does not know when to get the foot in, and sometimes leave it there.

His main concern against Portsmouth, perhaps in every game, is to offer regular delivery to Wayne Rooney, and a couple of passes to the Wonder Man were of the highest calibre. Perhaps only Claude Makelele in the British game finds a team-mate with such regularity.

Scholes is most at home, naturally, with the other two survivors of Ferguson's Boys of '94, Gary Neville and Ryan Giggs. Twelve years on, these three remain a delight as United go about prising the Premiership title from Chelsea. Scholes can find Giggs and Neville without even looking up, it seems.

In his quiet fashion, Scholes remains grateful to Ferguson for giving him the chance, along with the Neville brothers, Giggs, David Beckham and Nicky Butt. "He was one of the first managers to give young players a real chance," said Scholes on the eve of Ferguson's big weekend. "And he is trying to do it again now.

"With him the players come first. He never slags anyone off publicly. If he has something to say he does it in the dressing room and it never leaves there." (Unless perhaps it is the story of Beckham and the Case of the Flying Boot).

"He sticks up for us to the hilt. It makes us feel wanted and that's important to us." Even the occasion when Scholes refused to play against Arsenal in the League Cup four years ago was tackled by his boss and forgotten. "If you apologise, go and see him and talk to him - there is always room to forgive," said Scholes.

There was nothing for Ferguson to forgive yesterday as Scholes showed his return from a long spell out with a serious eye problem is complete, to the utter benefit of the team. United were poorer in his absence, and a much better one for his restoration, Rooney prospering from the service in particular.

If Ferguson is delighted with his red-headed midfielder, Scholes himself is amazed at Ferguson's longevity and the fashion in which he copes with the constant pressure. "If you lose two or three games it's a crisis. But he is so used to it now that he doesn't let anything faze him."

Scholes feels there will never be another like Sir Alex. "You will never see anyone at a top club for so long again." Ferguson will certainly return that respect and affection. Scholes wears the number 18 and, at the age of 31, looks more the age on his shirt. The manager, and all at the club, wish they had another dozen years to come from the midfield genius

[muckypups]

Interesting (if long) article, again from the Observer,..Ryan Giggs take on Fergie's 20th...

Pride of Manchester

Paul Wilson

Sunday November 5, 2006

The Observer

Alex Ferguson had been manager of Manchester United for less than two months when a local newsagent and part-time ground steward named Harold Wood seized his chance.

Wood had been telling the club for weeks - though no one was listening - about an outstanding schoolboy who was training with Manchester City but was passionate about United. He reckoned United's bright new boss might listen and he was right. As soon as Ferguson set eyes on Ryan Wilson, or Ryan Giggs as he was about to become on dropping his father's surname and adopting his mother's, a train was set in motion that is still running smoothly to this day.

Two destinies were secured on a muddy field in Salford around Christmas 1986. Giggs would go on to sign schoolboy forms for United on his fourteenth birthday the following November, while Ferguson would go on to describe him as his most valuable signing. Peter Schmeichel or Denis Irwin might have been the canniest, Eric Cantona the most influential and Roy Keane the most important, but for a manager who prides himself on youth development Giggs was a once-in-a-lifetime find. 'We protected him like the treasure he was,' Ferguson has said. 'Looking back I can honestly say that all the money United paid me in my years at Old Trafford was justified at a stroke by securing Ryan.'

The point of this lesson in ancient history is to show that Giggs has been around for almost all of Ferguson's 20 years at United. Indeed, in November next year he will be able to celebrate his own twentieth anniversary at the club. The way he is currently playing he deserves to and one would not wager too much money against Ferguson still being at his side. The pair go together and pleasingly, when asked for his recollections of the past two decades, Giggs came up with touchingly personal ones. His two proudest moments in football, for instance, came long before the Doubles, the Treble or that fondly remembered goal in the FA Cup semi against Arsenal.

'That is all becoming a bit of a blur now,' he admits. 'What I remember most vividly is making my full debut at 17. I can still hear the manager saying, "And Ryan you'll be playing on the left", as clear as if it was yesterday. That's my proudest moment, that and seeing the manager's big gold Mercedes parked outside our house.'

Giggs would like to be able to say his first proud moment was opening the front door to Mr Ferguson but, as 13-year-olds will, he stayed out playing too long, forgot the time and turned his home corner to see the manager's car sitting in silent reproach. On double yellow lines, naturally. The eventual outcome was the same, though, and soon it was Ferguson's turn to make Giggs feel at home.

'He's done a lot for me outside football over the years,' Giggs says. 'He made that promise on the day I signed. I was in his office posing for the official photograph when I signed my schoolboy forms, and he said there were lots of coaches at the club who could help me with my football but if I had any personal problems I could come to him.

'He said his door was always open and that was important, because my mum and dad were splitting up and it was a tricky time for me personally. He knew that, he knew both my parents' names and he was someone I could talk to. I found it hard to believe, at that age, that someone like him could care so much, but that was one of the things that made him stand out. He didn't just know my mum and dad's names, he knew all the other lads' parents' names, too, and little things like that made you want to play for him.

'From the outside people just see a fierce and sometimes angry competitor, but from an early age I saw his other side. Over the years he's always supported me, he's always known what I'm capable of doing and he's always made that clear. There was some doubt about my future here when I came to negotiate my last contract, but once he had reassured me I was in his plans I didn't have much hesitation in signing.'

This is the mature Giggs speaking, of course. The teenage Giggs, he freely admits now, was not always so appreciative of Ferguson's suffocating supervision. 'You could say he took an interest in my off-field activities,' he explains with heavy irony. 'Especially in the early days. I suppose I can see the point of it now, being professional you have to look after yourself, but at the time it was a pain.

'You'd go out on a Saturday night with your mates and on the Monday morning he'd tell you where you were, what you'd had and who you had been with. He just knows everyone, there was no getting away from him. I wasn't actually that bad most of the time, but he always thought the worst. If I ever came in clean-shaven he'd assume I'd been out the night before. "Oh aye", he'd say. "Where were you last night?" I'd say nowhere and he'd say, "Well why have you had a shave, then?"'

Famously, one of Fergie's better-founded suspicions eventually led him to Lee Sharpe's door, so Giggs now has a bad memory of his manager coming calling to go with the earlier pleasant one. This time, just five years later, he did not notice the car. 'That was definitely my worst moment,' he recalls. 'Not only was I there, I had a bottle of Becks in my hand, there was no escape. The gaffer threw everyone out, even our non-footballing mates and girls who were nothing to do with him. Then he monstered us both, phoned my mum and fined me a month's wages, but he never held anything against me despite his strength of feeling. He was fine with me afterwards, though he ran out of patience with Lee in the end.'

Sharpe was one of the few departures from United to leave without reaching his full potential. Ferguson has seen off many other players in his time, some of them star names and still performing well, though in almost every case he made sure United had the best years. Giggs quickly learned that a top-level club is a structure in a constant state of renewal, and that anyone who sticks around for anything like 20 years is an exception rather than the norm.

When Giggs was 21, Ferguson sold Mark Hughes, Andrei Kanchelskis and Paul Ince. 'I was bewildered at first,' Giggs says. 'Incey was my best mate and Sparky was my hero when I was growing up, so I was gutted to see them go. Like everyone else I wondered whether it was necessary, though I did know that behind the scenes we had good young players coming through. I still had no idea we were going to be so successful, but once I saw the overall plan work so well it taught me never to doubt the manager again.

'It wasn't the same sort of shock when Becks left, but it still took a while to get used to the idea. Probably, in terms of the relationship they had at the end, what happened was best for both of them. The surprise was that Becks was only 28 when he left. After being together for so long, so successfully, I think we all thought we'd still be together in our thirties. But that's one of the manager's strengths. He doesn't stand still, he's always looking to move on and get better. Sometimes you might not see immediate success, sometimes you might have to take a step backwards, but in the long run the team will improve.'

Giggs knows from personal experience that a footballer should be at his peak in his late twenties and believes that principle underpins Ferguson's careful handling of teenage prodigies.

'Wayne Rooney is a great player now, but a good manager will take care to make sure he's still a great player at 28 or 29, because that's when you should be playing your best football,' he explains. 'The manager is making sure the foundations are in place so that players like Wayne and Cristiano can be the best in the world a few years down the line. That's the way he works and that's why I think he'll be around for a few more years yet. His hunger is still there. He believes in this team, he's excited by the talent at the club at the moment and he wants to see how far we can go.

'Four years ago I thought he was going to retire, because that's what he said he was going to do, but it didn't surprise me when he changed his mind. I think he knew he was going to miss it and decided he wasn't ready.'

Surely Giggs was ready for a change, though? He made his debut in 1991 and 15 years is a long time to listen to the same team talk. Many managers who have lasted only half as long complain that players tire of hearing the same voice saying the same things every week. 'I'm not saying I've listened to every team talk over the years,' Giggs admits. 'I've probably fallen asleep in half of them, or at least that's what the manager believes. It's usually more or less the same stuff, tailored to suit different opponents, though he likes to keep you on your toes.

'We've had big matches against Arsenal, say, and gone in expecting a long, thorough team talk, and been out again in under 10 minutes. Then when we are playing a team at the bottom of the league at home, someone we know we should beat, you go in expecting five minutes and get 35 or 40 minutes instead, detailed stuff, making sure we are properly prepared.'

There have been arguments and bust-ups along the way, of course, partly because Giggs knows he invites them.

'I'm not one of those players that need an arm round me. I respond to people having a go and the manager has probably worked that out. He's certainly done it on a few occasions and I seem to respond.

'Probably the biggest row was at Juventus, the first time we played them in 1996. I didn't think our formation was working and we had a little bit of an argument at half time. He said he wasn't happy with the way I was playing and brought me off. So that was the end of the argument and I had lost. On a big stage that was a disappointment for me, but he was probably right. I did go on to have better games against Juventus.'

Indeed he did. While Giggs missed the famous night in Turin when Keane took all the credit for a towering performance that powered United towards their 1999 Treble, it is much less frequently recalled that without Giggs' last-minute equaliser in the first leg of that semi-final the Italian job might have been beyond even the Irishman's powers of recovery. Coupled with his spectacular strike at Villa Park in the FA Cup semi-final replay, Giggs made a significant contribution to United's best season, though like his manager he is not one for dwelling in the past.

'Football is about the present and the future,' he says. 'The time for looking back is when you retire. I'm sure history will judge Sir Alex to have been this club's greatest manager, but that's not on our minds now. Everyone is disappointed that after winning the Champions League we didn't go on to win it again, and obviously we would love to put that right. But for me at the moment winning the Premiership is what I'd like to do most. The gaffer is just the same. First things first.'

[muckypups]

Another lengthy article, this time from The Sunday Times, on 20 key decisions that have shaped Fergies 20 years at OT... agree or not with the choices, they make for interesting reading..

20 glorious years, 20 key decisions

Sir Alex Ferguson took over Manchester United when the club had gone 19 years without a league title. Two decades on, his willingness to make tough calls has brought unprecedented success

Two tenets have driven Sir Alex Ferguson’s managerial career. The most important quality any boss can have, Ferguson likes saying, is the ability to make decisions. His other motto is one learnt from his mentor, Jock Stein: “Don’t go looking for trouble, trouble will come and find you.” Ferguson’s two decades at Old Trafford have been laden with as much sulphur and silverware.

There are arguments for Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Sir Matt Busby and Stein himself being the greater manager, but it is impossible to know whether any of them would have shared Ferguson’s ability to renew both himself and the biggest of football clubs amid the constant pressures of the modern game. Old Trafford could have had 20 managers in the past 20 years and not seen as much revolution.

Here are the 20 big decisions that have shaped the Ferguson years:

1 Takes the United job

Who wouldn’t manage Manchester United nowadays? In 1986, however, accepting the post required the faith of a gold prospector. Living up to Sir Matt Busby had proved impossible for every one of his successors and on November 6, 1986, United were joint 19th in the 22-team old First Division with three wins and 13 points from 13 games. There was little money to spend on new players. Liverpool looked utterly beyond United’s reach.

There was not even a financial incentive. Ferguson took a pay cut to become United manager, his salary being less than three-quarters of the £120,000 he had earned in the previous year as manager of Aberdeen. His

family, said Ferguson, were “devastated, completely against the idea” when he mooted leaving the Scottish northeast. Yet his reaction when offered the Old Trafford post was positive, immediate and definite: “This is not a job for me, it’s a mission.”

2 Rips it up, starts again

Most new bosses allow a period to appraise their new surroundings. Not Ferguson. He resolved to act quickly to address United’s climate of failure. His first half-time talk, away to Oxford, was a blast at his players for strolling to the dressing room instead of running off the pitch purposefully. After a 2-0 defeat he gathered his squad the next week and read the riot act about drinking. He ended the open access the press enjoyed at the Cliff training ground during the Atkinson era. Dictats were issued regarding diet, dress code and punctuality. New training methods were installed, United’s scouting network was revamped, and the youth system overhauled.

3 Declines the chance to buy John Barnes

There are right decisions and wrong ones. In summer 1987 Ferguson took a phone call from Graham Taylor offering him the chance to buy Watford’s promising young winger for just £900,000. He declined, putting his faith in Jesper Olsen, to whom he had handed a new contract. Olsen flopped; Barnes moved to Liverpool; Ferguson replaced Olsen with Ralph Milne. “I don’t pretend it was the best bit of business I’ve ever done,” Ferguson admitted. Tony Collins, the chief scout whose department advised against buying Barnes, was sacked.

4 The first big clear-out

When United slumped to 11th in his second full season in charge, Ferguson started a shake-up. In March, to supporters’ dismay, he sold Gordon Strachan. Then, in 48 hours in July, Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath were transferred. Both were talented, committed performers on the pitch and fans were outraged. Ferguson, however, believed United’s lingering drink culture could never fully be expunged until these two leading practioners were jettisoned. The thought of Whiteside’s lost potential has forever pained Ferguson and McGrath had a rich Indian summer at Villa but their replacements proved more than passable: Paul Ince and Gary Pallister.

5 Buying Eric Cantona

Ferguson held lack of goal power as ultimately to blame for United losing the title race to Leeds in 1991-92 and spent the summer trying to land a centre-forward. He narrowly missed Mick Harford, Alan Shearer and Sheffield Wednesday’s David Hirst before signing Dion Dublin. In 1992-93 Dublin began well but broke his leg. By November, Ferguson was hunting strikers again and failed with a renewed £3.5m bid for Hirst. Five days later he sat in chairman Martin Edwards’s office, gloomily discussing strikers, and reporting how Gerard Houllier, the new France manager, had raved to him about Leeds’s Eric Cantona. Sighed Ferguson: “It’s a pity we can’t sign him.” What happened next was “uncanny”, Ferguson remembers. Edwards’s telephone rang and it was Bill Fotherby, Leeds’s chief executive, asking to buy Denis Irwin. Ferguson frowned and mouthed a vehement “no” and just as Edwards was about to hang up scribbled a word on a piece of paper: “CANTONA?” By the end of the day Cantona was Ferguson’s, for £1.1m. The rest was history.

6 Keeping Eric Cantona

Ferguson’s first instinct was to sack Cantona after his notorious “kung-<deleted>” attack on a fan at Selhurst Park in January 1995. He decided to give him a second chance and argued his case to a sceptical United board and baying media. The final task was convincing Cantona to stay. Disgusted by an eight-month ban handed to him by the FA, the police’s decision he should be prosecuted and the press hysteria, the final straw for Cantona was when the FA fined him for playing in a closed-door friendly during his suspension. He fled to France, pursued by Ferguson, who met Cantona in Paris, driven there through backstreets on a motorbike having given reporters the slip. Ferguson persuaded his matchwinner to return and Cantona was the key contributor when United won the Double in 1995-96.

7 The second clear-out

When Ferguson sold Paul Ince, Andrei Kanchelskis and Mark Hughes during the summer of 1995, there was uproar. When it became plain he planned no big signings to replace them the verdict was that he was insane. “I was 21, Incey was my best mate at the club and Sparky [Hughes] was my hero. My first thought was, ‘Why’?” says Ryan Giggs. “But it’s an example of why you should never doubt him.” Ferguson had David Beckham, Paul Scholes, the Nevilles and Nicky Butt in the reserves and the youngsters swept all before them.

8 Ferguson decides to play mind games with Kevin Keegan

In 1995-96, Newcastle were romping towards the title, 12 points clear of United by January and winners of 13 out of 13 home games. But after United won at St James’ Park and reeled in their rivals, Ferguson decided a coup de grace was required. Following a gritty 1-0 win against Leeds, he used his post-match TV interview to apply the pressure, remarking that he hoped Leeds would be as committed when they met Newcastle 12 days hence. The remark made Keegan boil and when his Newcastle side beat Leeds he blew his lid. Keegan’s moist-eyed rant about Ferguson to a Sky Sports camera — “He has gone down in my estimation . . . I would love it if we beat them, love it” — was the iconic moment one man lost his marbles and Ferguson won another league title.

9 Revamps his team in the summer of 1998

Already ridiculed for buying Jaap Stam at a world record price for a defender after the Dutchman had a cumbersome World Cup, Ferguson faced further smirks when he decided to splash £12.6m on Dwight Yorke to complete his summer spending. Yorke had been a good player for Aston Villa but surely lacked the class to be the man who would enable United to win the championship back from Arsenal.

There was also serious internal opposition at United to Yorke’s purchase: Brian Kidd, Ferguson’s assistant, wanted to buy John Hartson instead and was supported initially by Martin Edwards. In a fury, Ferguson flew back to Manchester from his family holiday in France and offered to resign. Edwards backed off, Kidd soon was off — to manage Blackburn Rovers — and Yorke and Stam turned out to be the best striker and the best defender in Europe as United swept to an unforgettable Treble in 1998-99.

10 Ferguson rolls the dice in Barcelona

Wednesday, May 26, 1999, the Nou Camp, 10.07pm local time. United are 1-0 down to Bayern Munich in the European Cup final and looking wholly unlikely to score. Destiny is dribbling between Ferguson’s fingers and through his hands. He looks at his bench and makes a choice: on goes Teddy Sheringham. United improve but not enough; Ferguson withdraws Andy Cole and puts on Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. He has made no bigger decisions during a match. Bayern Munich 1 (Basler 6) Manchester United 2 (Sheringham 89, Solskjaer 90). “Football, eh?” said Ferguson. “Bloody hel_l!”

11 Skips the 1999- 2000 FA Cup

With England bidding for the 2006 World Cup, United were under severe government and FA pressure to go to Rio de Janeiro and participate in January’s inaugural Fifa Club World Championship. It would involve taking two weeks out of the domestic season and the only realistic way to do it was not to take part in the FA Cup. The ultimate decision was Ferguson’s and reluctantly he agreed to withdraw from the competition, even though United were holders. Rio was a disaster and the FA Cup controversy still dogs United.

12 Waits on Ruud van Nistelrooy

Having agreed to pay PSV Eindhoven £19m for Van Nistelrooy in 2000, Ferguson’s plans to revamp his Treble-winning forward line were ruined when the striker suffered a serious knee injury days before he was supposed to join United. Most managers would have moved on but Ferguson believed in Van Nistelrooy enough to wait. After coaxing one last great season out of Sheringham, double player of the year in 2000-2001, he returned for Van Nistelrooy, who repaid him with 150 goals in 219 appearances.

13 Swaps Stam for Blanc

Popular belief is that Stam was jettisoned after writing indiscreetly in his autobiography both about teammates and Ferguson. But Ferguson had contemplated changing his defence for some time and three months earlier had explored the possibility of swapping Stam for Juventus’s Lilian Thuram. Still, shock greeted the news Stam would be sold to Lazio for £16.5m — and his replacement would be veteran Frenchman Laurent Blanc.

14 Says he’ll retire

“After I made the decision I knew I would live to regret it,” says Ferguson of his announcement he would step down as manager after 2001-02. “It was a spur of the moment thing and a man of my age should know better.” Yet with his 60th birthday approaching and disgruntled that he was underappreciated and underpaid (as he saw it) by United directors, quitting seemed the right thing to do. In May 2001 he almost left after the board failed to offer him a significant post-retirement role. “When my contract is finished (in 2002) I will leave United for good and will sever all connections. I am definitely going.”

15 Un-retires

The media got an inkling of a U-turn at Christmas 2001. Ferguson gave a briefing to a trusted confidant and for the first time was ambiguous about leaving United. The resultant headlines were exaggerated, and strongly denied by Ferguson, but within a few weeks came confirmation that, backed by his family, Ferguson was staying on. United got lucky, England less so: Peter Kenyon had lined up Sven-Göran Eriksson as Ferguson’s successor.

16 The Rock and a hard place

Ferguson does not lose many fights but he came off worse when he challenged John Magnier, owner of Coolmore Stud and former United shareholder, over the stud rights to Rock Of Gibraltar. Ferguson believed that since 50% “ownership” of the Rock had been gifted to him over the course of the horse’s career, he was entitled to 50% of its earnings as a stallion, which could have netted him more than £100m. He hit Coolmore with a lawsuit; Magnier, furious his integrity had been questioned, joined with ally JP McManus and built up a 28.9% stake in United, making him the club’s effective power broker. Under pressure, Ferguson caved in, albeit with £2.5m for dropping his claim. Magnier and McManus then sold their now unwanted shareholding to Malcolm Glazer, helping the American take over United. No other decision of Ferguson’s has had wider-reaching consequences.

17 Fergie flogs Beckham to Real Madrid

They said he would never do it. He did. David Beckham and Ferguson had a relationship Beckham once described as “like father and son” but by the end of 2002-03, after a series of fall-outs which culminated with Ferguson accidentally kicking a discarded boot in Beckham’s face in the Old Trafford dressing room, it was all over. United agreed to sell him to Barcelona and eventually transferred him to Real Madrid for £25m. Commentators said Ferguson had made his biggest mistake and worried about the effect Beckham’s departure would have on United’s commercial earnings but Ferguson, fresh from regaining the league title, was unconcerned. In Beckham’s place he signed Cristiano Ronaldo.

18 Buys Wayne Rooney

Buying Rooney in summer 2004 was not the no-brainer it now appears. United had to pay Everton a fee rising to £27m and Ferguson knew it would effectively involve using up most of his transfer budget for the next two seasons. At a time when Chelsea were starting their revolution under Jose Mourinho, this would severely reduce United’s short-term prospects of winning the title. But Ferguson was clear in his resolve that Rooney was a prospect which in the long-term the club could not afford to miss out on. Now he is reaping the rewards, although the greatest benefits of this decision are likely to be enjoyed at Old Trafford after the manager has gone.

19 Ditches Roy Keane

They said he’d never do it. He did, chapter two. Ferguson described Keane as the greatest player he had ever worked with and right up until the very last days of Keane’s 12-year association with United it seemed inconceivable the manager would ever sell him. But every relationship has its breaking point and after Keane, following earlier bust-ups, slaughtered teammates in an interview on MUTV before turning his ire on Carlos Queiroz when asked to apologise, he had to go.

20 Ditches Ruud van Nistelrooy

They said he’d never do it. He did, chapter three. Van Nistelrooy had to go after showing Ferguson insubordination and his move to Real Madrid anguished United fans, especially when just one player arrived in time for the 2006-07 season, Michael Carrick. But who’s sorry now? With Louis Saha in potent form and Van Nistelrooy’s departure apparently giving Rooney, Ronaldo and Paul Scholes more scope in attack, United’s overall goal count has risen. The league table suggests the boldest decision-maker around might have pulled off another masterstroke.

[redrus]

Nice one Muckypups, good reading that....

redrus

[muckypups]

Well, 20 years today.. there will be plenty written for sure.. but this from "the Fiver" (The Guardian's often hilarious daily football round-up)

Ferg's 20th Anniversary, and Peace Breaks Out

Rob Smyth and Paul Doyle

Friday November 3, 2006

Guardian Unlimited

IN 1986 WE WERE SINGING ALONG TO JOHN FARNHAM....(who?)

On Monday, Lord Ferg will have completed a mind-boggling 20 years as manager of the MU Rowdies, a feat he will celebrate before, during and after the match with Portsmouth at the GlazerBowl tomorrow. So, instead of writing a tribute to the Purple One, we decided to cut and paste some classic Fergie spraffs from the last two decades:

"Clubs come away from Anfield choking on their own vomit and biting their own tongues knowing they have been done by the referee" - revealing his love for Liverpool after the 10-man Rowdies grabbed a 3-3 draw in 1988.

"I should have gone ahead and signed Mick Harford" - explaining why the Rowdies failed to win the league in 1992.

"Big? It isn't big. It's magnificent! I've seen some whoppers in my time, but Dion's is something else" - Ferg's verdict on Dion Dublin's lunchbox, according to the then Coventry chairman Bryan Richardson, in 1994.

"I f*****g told youse not to ask that John. You know the rules here" - introducing John Motson to the hairdryer after Motty asked why Roy Keane had slugged Jan Fjortoft in 1995.

"If he was an inch taller he'd be the best centre-half in Britain. His father is 6ft 2in - I'd check the milkman" - appraising Gary Neville's parentage in 1996.

"He probably started crying" - explaining why Jack Walker wouldn't let Alan Shearer go to the DevilBowl in 1996.

"Some sinister magic appeared to be at work" - after defeat to Borussia Dortmund in the 1997 Big Cup semi-final.

"He's a bully, a f*****g big-time Charlie" - an impromptu paean to his former midfield stalwart Paul Ince in 1998.

"When an Italian says it's pasta I check under the sauce to make sure" - the old charmer limbers up for a visit to Milan in 1999.

"Football. Bloody hel_l" - lost for words after the Treble victory in 1999.

"We were very unlucky to lose the toss twice and play into the sun" - putting a novel spin on embarrassing failure at the World Club Championship in 2000.

"I'm no' f*****g talking to you. Veron's a great f***ing player. Youse are all f***ing idiots" - building bridges with the press after criticism of Juan Veron in 2002.

"My greatest challenge was knocking Liverpool right off their f****n' perch, and you can print that" - responding to Alan Hansen's suggestion that regaining the title in 2002-03 would be his greatest challenge.

"Just f*****g patch him up" - Fergie's reputed instruction to the United physio after lamping a stray boot into David Beckham's face in 2003.

"It's getting tickly now. Squeaky-bum time, I call it" - tickling Arsenal's undercarriage in 2003.

"Real Madrid - they have a nice draw, they must have picked it themselves. The Spanish or Italian teams don't play each other, how do you think they work that out? They don't want us in the final, that's for sure, but I'm not listening" - after the Rowdies drew Real in Big Cup quarter-final in 2003. They lost.

"Arsenal played too many draws. The best team in England? That's always debatable" - evaluating Arsenal's 2003-04 Invincibles.

"Could I have two bullets?" - when asked 'If you had one bullet and Victoria Beckham and Arsene Wenger were in the room, what would you do?' in 2004.

"We're as good as Chelsea, no question" - after finishing eight points off the pace last season.

"It's scandalous that some people think I should retire. I have every right to work hard. I am going to continue working" - warming up for a few more years on the eve of his 20th anniversary.

[muckypups]

From the BBC website... tributes for Fergie!...

Stars' tribute to legend Ferguson

Tributes have been flooding in for the legendary Sir Alex Ferguson

Some of football's biggest names have paid tribute to Sir Alex Ferguson, who marks 20 years as manager of Manchester United on 6 November.

Ferguson's achievements during his time with the club have drawn acclaim from past and present players, managers and pundits alike.

MANCHESTER UNITED PLAYERS PAST AND PRESENT

"The thing is, you can't imagine life at United without him. One day it will happen, we are all aware of that, and when it does it will be a great shame because of what he has achieved here. But it won't be soon, because he is still desperate to win trophies"

Midfielder Paul Scholes

"It wouldn't surprise me if he carried on for five to 10 years longer. Why should he leave? He's as determined as ever. It's a continual challenge at this club, that will keep him young"

Captain Gary Neville

"His determination to be the best is constantly on show - even when we're watching The Weakest Link in our hotel he wants to win. He's a one-off and will rightly go down as the greatest ever manager"

Defender John O'Shea

"For him to keep going is remarkable. He stands out with his will to win, he knows football, he knows his players and he knows his own club inside-out"

Former United captain Roy Keane

"He is a man with a mission, Manchester United through and through. I'd say his drive was more important to our success than anything else"

Former United midfielder David Beckham in his 2003 autobiography, My Side

"He expected standards to be high and if you didn't reach those standards or you let them slip he would be quick to remind you. He is a fantastic man-manager and great to work under"

Ex-United defender Denis Irwin

PREMIERSHIP MANAGERS

"When you think that the average life of a manager is one year and seven days, and somebody has done 20, it is a remarkable achievement. I feel we had some heated times - but time will settle things and there is a respect there now"

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger

"I once rang him up and was on for 10 minutes about players and he told me about every player, their strengths and their weaknesses. I put the phone down and I said 'I bet he even knows the Dunfermline groundsman' so I rang him back and said 'Hey Alex, I forgot to ask you about the Dunfermline groundsman' and, by God, he did know his name and where he came from!"

Sheffield United's Neil Warnock

"I believe that Sir Alex is number one in England and one of the top two or three in the world. I have found him a nice person, you can talk to him without any problems

Liverpool's Rafael Benitez

"I know the pressure he has had to endure over such a long period, so for him to keep driving himself forward and driving his team forward is a fantastic achievement"

Blackburn's Mark Hughes

"You have to hold your hands up and say Sir Alex is the number one. He has been at the top for 20 years. His desire is unstinting, his passion and will to win fierce"

Wigan's Paul Jewell

"He is a shining light for any young manager who wants to progress. He is probably second to none for what he has done but you can still see that burning ambition in his eyes"

Manchester City's Stuart Pearce

"For what he knew was going to be a massive occasion, to change a player he had previously shown a massive allegiance to, showed that cold, cutting edge that all top managers need"

Reading's Steve Coppell on Ferguson dropping Jim Leighton ahead of the 1990 FA Cup final replay against Coppell's Crystal Palace

"He is the standard bearer for everyone in terms of management. You have to be a very special character to have that amount of success at a club like Manchester United"

Middlesbrough's Gareth Southgate

"Sir Alex is someone I have a great deal of respect for, and someone I would look to emulate one day. If I could match his record it would be fantastic"

Watford's Adrian Boothroyd

"Sir Alex is someone I certainly look up to because he is the one who wins things. He epitomises everything you need in football - stability and continuity, and United believed in him"

Everton's David Moyes

"I'll tell you why he's stayed in the game so long - he just loves it so much. It gets in your blood and you take the job home with you. He's a fantastic character, a top-class manager and a good man"

Portsmouth's Harry Redknapp

OTHER TRIBUTES FROM THE FOOTBALL WORLD

"At the end of United's Treble-winning season in 1999, we were having a cup of tea at the training ground and he was already talking about what was needed for the season after. That's how he's been so successful!"

England manager and ex-United assistant boss Steve McClaren

"He is the best manager of his generation for me. I just know he is a special, special man - I knew he would be a success at United - absolutely no danger"

Celtic boss and ex-Man Utd winger Gordon Strachan

"People did not know how much he used to watch the youth team when the like of the Nevilles, Butt, Scholes and Beckham were in it, he knew every player well. Nobody at Old Trafford thought you could emulate Sir Matt Busby or beat his record. But Sir Alex did and that tells the tale"

Former United youth coach Eric Harrison

[nev]

thanks muckey a great read.

[muckypups]

Cheers Nev.. there's some great stuff in the press about Fergie today..got to say thanks to him for putting us back where we belong..TOP FLIGHT....

...and great results this weekend.. both Mourinho and Wenger whining..hee hee..

[nev]

muckey or any other reds be in town for the piss up at the butchers arms?

fergie is a legend, i got very nostalgic today and put on my trebble dvd, what a team.

i am on count down now fly out friday. nev

[muckypups]

I'm away working sadly Nev.. Who knows, if the job is cancelled for any reason I'll try and make it. I'm living far from Pattaya but I'm not averse to a quick visit...

Meanwhile.. a graph illustrating Fergie's 20 years..

Ferguson had to wait three-and-a-half years for his first piece of silverware, but once he found a winning formula titles became the norm at Old Trafford.

"Coaches such as Fabio Capello, Marcello Lippi, Arsene Wenger and myself suggest longevity can bring success," he has said.

Ferguson has got his hands on 17 major titles - incorporating two Doubles and a Treble - plus six Manager of the Year awards, five Charity Shields, an Intercontinental Cup and a Super Cup.

Arsenal have 13 major trophies since 1986 - seven under Wenger, while Liverpool have 11, Chelsea seven and Manchester City none.

[muckypups]

I'm not really a nerdy statistician.. honest.. but I've run out of articles to cut and paste..so: another graph..

Ferguson has overseen 1,109 games as the Old Trafford supremo and he has tasted victory in 57% of them, losing just 19%.

He has won more games than Arsene Wenger - the second longest serving manager in the Premiership - has presided over. And after a slow start that winning percentage has steadily risen, passing and staying above 50% for good in the 1992/93 season.

And as well as bringing success to the club, Ferguson has ensured it has been done in style.

Goals have come at an average of 1.79 a game, up from a lowly 1.24 in his first season to a dizzying 2.19 to date this term.

[nev]

well done southend! they deserved there win and good on them,show we lack depth in the squad.

[ThaiPauly]

well done southend! they deserved there win and good on them,show we lack depth in the squad.

Now you can "concentrate on the league" as is so often said Oh and the European Championship and the FA Cup

I always thought that AF called it the "Mickey Mouse Cup" anyway..so I doubt there will be too many United fans loosing much sleep over it

[muckypups]

well done southend! they deserved there win and good on them,show we lack depth in the squad.

Now you can "concentrate on the league" as is so often said Oh and the European Championship and the FA Cup

I always thought that AF called it the "Mickey Mouse Cup" anyway..so I doubt there will be too many United fans loosing much sleep over it

Agreed Nev, I didn't see the match but well done to Southend. I suppose it is true that of all the competitions we're involved in this was arguably the least important, although we didn't say that last year when it was our only trophy.. and I've no doubt that this was a match Fergie wanted to win..You may have a point about our (partial) second-string side not being up to it, following on, as it does, from a similar failure in Copenhagen last week. I still think our best team has what it takes to go all the way in the league though..

[nev]

what you think fergie wanted to win this one, i heard he brought a sub on,at the 90 minute mark,he should have been booked for time wasting.

[muckypups]

Really..? I didn't know that..hmm maybe he did have another agenda after all..

[2long]

Ha ha ha!

A strong team? Yes. A better team than Southwho? Evidentally not.

A Mickey Mouse cup is all they've won since 2003, is it?

Never mind.

[nev]

what do you mean a strong team we only had rooney and ronaldo from our first 11.

whatever.

[muckypups]

Ha ha ha!

A strong team? Yes. A better team than Southwho? Evidentally not.

A Mickey Mouse cup is all they've won since 2003, is it?

Never mind.

Fair play 2long, our (for the most part) 2nd team should have been strong enough to beat Southend.. but, cup football is not always that predictable. True, our eighth Premiership trophy was back in 2003..since then; we lost to Arsenal in the 2005 FA Cup Final.. on the lottery of penalties, a game in which we were far and away the better side. 2006, we won the league cup and came runners up in the league to a strong and consistent Chelsea. Had we not started that season so badly who knows what might have happened.

This season..no idea? Maybe nothing.. but the way our first team is playing there's a good chance we'll win something..and if that is the case at least we know it won't be a "Mickey Mouse" cup..

[ThaiPauly]

Playing your reserves is all very well, but when ROONEY & RONALDO play..that should have made the difference.

Come on ...even your second string with those two should have won this game?

Your reserve team + R&R cost more than the whole of Southend ..plus a rebuild of their stadium and a complete restoration of their fire damaged pier and "No Council Tax for a whole year for every Southend Citizen!!!"

Watch Southend United climb Championship table now. Dennis Wise and Roy Keane will not thank you for that...if Southend can beat United ...they can ceratinly beat anybody in that league

Rooney and Ronaldo should hang their heads in absolute SHAME..or give each other a BJ..that sems to work for them !!!!

[farangconnection]

what do you mean a strong team we only had rooney and ronaldo from our first 11.

whatever.

So what you are saying is that you havn't got any good up and coming players is it?

Thought as much. But I didn't dare say it.

[nev]

mate not saying that, if you no the inside uniteds set up we have most of our up and comming players out on loan and not just the ones in england, we have some great talent over in belgium playing for royal antwerp.

the ones who piss me off is fergies golden boys,oshea and richardson,and dare i say fletcher and brown they are not uniteds standard but fergie keeps putting them in together, and playing alan smith who is just back from a major injury.

we do no we have to buy in january to cover for injuries which we may or maynot get.

we will try to give you a run for your money hey if we dont whats the fun in that, you winning by say 15 points, i would like it to go too the wire.

we should off load richardson he is so up himself but he has no talent, and oshea good first season but since very average.

fletcher has impressed me in a few games, but surely against southend he should of took the game by the scruff of the kneck.

wes brown i did like him but since vidic arrived he will only be a back up player.

our 1st eleven is as good as any other team but sadly we do not have the money you guys have to cover every position like you guys.

should be a good game between us in 2 weeks time and could go a long way to determining if we have the credentials to challenge you.

[farangconnection]

mate not saying that, if you no the inside uniteds set up we have most of our up and comming players out on loan and not just the ones in england, we have some great talent over in belgium playing for royal antwerp.

the ones who piss me off is fergies golden boys,oshea and richardson,and dare i say fletcher and brown they are not uniteds standard but fergie keeps putting them in together, and playing alan smith who is just back from a major injury.

we do no we have to buy in january to cover for injuries which we may or maynot get.

we will try to give you a run for your money hey if we dont whats the fun in that, you winning by say 15 points, i would like it to go too the wire.

we should off load richardson he is so up himself but he has no talent, and oshea good first season but since very average.

fletcher has impressed me in a few games, but surely against southend he should of took the game by the scruff of the kneck.

wes brown i did like him but since vidic arrived he will only be a back up player.

our 1st eleven is as good as any other team but sadly we do not have the money you guys have to cover every position like you guys.

should be a good game between us in 2 weeks time and could go a long way to determining if we have the credentials to challenge you.

it looks to me like the winner of our two battles takes the league. Thought Arsenal might challange, but if they keep trying to walk the ball in the net, then the Premiership defenders are going to come out on top.

[nev]

yes arsenal have really impressed me but as we all no goals win games,i think next year they will be up there, liverpol have dissapointed me,but made me happy,lol, with there squad i thought they would be up there but there away form is the worst in the league.

i will be in pattaya for the chelsea game if you or any other chelsea around could meet for a beer. as long as its not the dogs <deleted>

big game a six pointer, two form teams head to head what english football is all about.