England'S Official 2012 Euro Discussion Thread

[meatboy]

talk about men in white coming to get you that lot wouldnt wont now how,and who was the old man in a suit and striped tie sat alone on the touch line for 120mins he looked like nookie bear without roger.

[salty]

The Germans must have been distraught having to stay up late due to extra time and penalties.

[MB1]

The Germans must have been distraught having to stay up late due to extra time and penalties.

Yeah I can just imagine them in Naklua cheering Italy on with their steins and ooom papa bands.

I do hope Italy beat them and wipe the smile from their faces. If they do then after tonight I may smile again...

[salty]

Italy were by far the better team in the 120 minutes. They had loads of chances but Terry, Lescott and others did heroic work in blocking and pressurising the Italians.

Ashley Cole epitomised the uncertain nature of shootouts. In Munich he scored witha terrific penalty. Tonight his effort was very poor.

[MB1]

Italy were by far the better team in the 120 minutes. They had loads of chances but Terry, Lescott and others did heroic work in blocking and pressurising the Italians.

Ashley Cole epitomised the uncertain nature of shootouts. In Munich he scored witha terrific penalty. Tonight his effort was very poor.

England did half okay first half after that dire apart from free kicks and set moves, they wilted and were on the backfoot, read the stats tommorow, after only 105 minutes of play England had managed a wow 300 or so passes, Italy more than double that over 700.

I mentioned it before, if England could put together 800 passes Rooney would have to be on Mastemind.......pass pass pass pass...............................................

But we overcome the pressure and made it to penalties and then what........Nuff said.......

Edited June 24, 2012 by MB1

[carmine]

The Germans must have been distraught having to stay up late due to extra time and penalties.

Having already seen what Italy and England had to offer i really don't think the germans gave a toss who won.

[Macclad]

How Milner and Young started every game is beyond me.They were both shocking in each match.Johnson and Cole had to double up their roles because this pair were so ineffective.

After the first 20 minutes Italy outplayed us.The last 15 minutes we were like a punch drunk boxer hanging on.We couldnt even get possession never mind get out of our own half.

One of the repercussions of the penalty shoot out is that it is unlikely that any babies born in England will be called Ashley for the foreseeable future !

[oldgit]

The Germans must have been distraught having to stay up late due to extra time and penalties.

Having already seen what Italy and England had to offer i really don't think the germans gave a toss who won.

Well, judging on last night's performance,I think they were on their bended knees that England would sneak it on the penalty shoot out.And if they give a 33 old year called Andrea Pirlo the time and space that the England midfield did last night,which I'm betting they won't,they will be in trouble.

[StevieH]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

[oldgit]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

[rixalex]

Great start to the game. Italy well and truly there for the taking, and some of our attacking moves were the best of our tournament, not that that is obviously saying a great deal. Still, looked promising but we just seemed to tire after that and sit back. Gerrard looked shagged. Not surprising really with how he commanded play for the first three games. Was surprised when Parker came off instead of him, but i guess being captain he wanted to stay on. Fair to say that Parker looked tired too.

When it came to the penalties i was just praying we didn't have any left-footers take ours. Young of course missed first, although at least he hit it with conviction and would have beat the keeper were it a few inches lower. Then up steps a left footer and i knew we were out. Not sure what it is. Sure there are some good left footed penalty takers, but not in most of the games i watch.

Anyway, we made it to the quarters having topped our group and i'm happy with that. They achieved to their level and hopefully got some experience along the way. Although that said, i wonder how many of that team will make it to the next competition. Time for retirement for some of them i think.

[StevieH]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

[rixalex]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Of course Roy has to take some of the blame and there were some tactical issues, but let's be honest, a lot of the players simply didn't perform. Bearing in mind the time Roy had to prepare, i think he did a decent enough job. Put it this way, i am in no doubt we wouldn't have done any better under Capello, who had been working with the players and in the job a h3ll of a lot longer.

Added to which, it is good to have an English team again, no matter the results. Foreign managers leading national sides is all wrong for me. We've made a step back in the right direction. Hopefully with some more quality in the side for next time, we can push on from here. We are England though so no guarantees on that score!

[rijit]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Actually after the first 15 it was changed , not down to woy tho, more like 6 --2.---------- 2 they kept pushing up, pushing our c/m midfield back and Milner and young bac, making them attack wise barely effective and thus leaving our 'strikers totally isolated.

, I don't think I've ever seen such a one sided competitive England game and tbh, with woy's system can anyone see it improving?

[StevieH]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Of course Roy has to take some of the blame and there were some tactical issues, but let's be honest, a lot of the players simply didn't perform. Bearing in mind the time Roy had to prepare, i think he did a decent enough job. Put it this way, i am in no doubt we wouldn't have done any better under Capello, who had been working with the players and in the job a h3ll of a lot longer.

Added to which, it is good to have an English team again, no matter the results. Foreign managers leading national sides is all wrong for me. We've made a step back in the right direction. Hopefully with some more quality in the side for next time, we can push on from here. We are England though so no guarantees on that score!

honestly, and this isn't just because i don't like the man and think he's a complete spoofer, for me roy takes almost all the blame for that performance last night. it was absolutely cowardly. the players were told to play that way, it was his formation, his lack of changes and his ignoring of the player who was dictating the match, pirlo. roy was happy to take the plaudits for the changes that won the match against sweden, so he should take the responsibility here too.

ireland had more possession against italy than england did. 68% possession to 32%. 36 attempts on goal to 9. 8 on target to 1. joe hart, with 45, completed more passes than any other england player. pirlo had 131.

this is what roy is and what he does. i expect england to struggle to qualify for the next world cup while he is manager. which is a shame because the england players are actually a lot better than this.

[oldgit]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Then it would have been up to Rooney and Welbeck (and later Carroll) to put Pirlo under pressure because he was,literally, picking up the ball from the toes of his centre backs and setting up moves, but there was neither the effort or the inclination on their part to graft.

[StevieH]

Then it would have been up to Rooney and Welbeck (and later Carroll) to put Pirlo under pressure because he was,literally, picking up the ball from the toes of his centre backs and setting up moves, but there was neither the effort or the inclination on their part to graft.

correct, but 1] the manager has to change the shape to tell rooney or welbeck to drop into that hole, play closer to gerrard and parker and to hassle pirlo so he doesn't have all day on the ball and 2] if they're not doing it through laziness you hook them and replace them with someone who will do it.

again, this isn't about the players. they were doing what they were told to do. there were 8 premier league winners in that team and 4 champions league winners. these are not crap footballers. yet they were set up and played like fulham.

[mrbojangles]

this is what roy is and what he does. i expect england to struggle to qualify for the next world cup while he is manager. which is a shame because the england players are actually a lot better than this.

That's what's worrying me. Fine, we didn't expect much from this comp but to think we are going to play like this for the next 4 or so years is daunting.

[alfieconn]

Then it would have been up to Rooney and Welbeck (and later Carroll) to put Pirlo under pressure because he was,literally, picking up the ball from the toes of his centre backs and setting up moves, but there was neither the effort or the inclination on their part to graft.

correct, but 1] the manager has to change the shape to tell rooney or welbeck to drop into that hole, play closer to gerrard and parker and to hassle pirlo so he doesn't have all day on the ball and 2] if they're not doing it through laziness you hook them and replace them with someone who will do it.

again, this isn't about the players. they were doing what they were told to do. there were 8 premier league winners in that team and 4 champions league winners. these are not crap footballers. yet they were set up and played like fulham.

To be fair Stevie it doesn't matter what the tactics are if players can't pass the ball more than 5 yards to their own players !!! and people like Rooney trying to run through 3 players like a schoolboy !

Edited June 25, 2012 by alfieconn

[Razzler1973]

*sigh*

It's disappointing but not unexpected. Yes we didn't have a lot of preparation and some people thought we'd not get out the group. This is kind of where I expected us to go out but we've done it winning the group for a change and not to someone like Spain but to Italy. Not a vintage Italy but still a very good side but this is a game I thought we really had a shot in. I don't mind the defensive play but tbh despite all that they did create too many chances and we rode our luck. We failed to deal with Pirlo all game too.

This is where we are now. 1/4 finals and a bit of luck here or there and maybe a semi sometime. We didn't really impose ourselves on the game as an attacking force at all aside from the opening 5 or 6 minutes and the usual failings are there, not keeping hold of the ball. This was beyond not keeping hold of the ball to actively trying to give it away at times. It's so frustrating. Technical deficiencies blah blah blah but it's really not so difficult to pass a ball 5 or 10 yards and it comes back to out fear of having the ball at our feet and the confidence to receive and not want to move it on and run quickly.

The performance in the game was resolute but disappointing we weren't in it as much as I'd hoped.

Penalties ... we got our nose in front, just like Portugal in '04. I was watching with the g/f and said of Young's pen that if he misses I reckon we'll miss the next as well, no matter who takes it. Ashley Cole usually puts a nice penalty in in these things but he sort of like between thoughts, not sure he knew what he was doing with it. No point in making villains out of players, I think we're all past that but the collective failure at pens is getting ridiculous now.

We got our nose in front, <deleted>. Why Young didn't pick a corner and put it there I don't know. Rooney and Gerrard's pens were ace but he just blasted it. Sooooo frustrating as I thought that this was it, we can finally win one at a 1/4 final stage. I am sick of 1/4 final exits on pens, <deleted> I don't care about how poor Italy's record is at pens, they have won a bloody World Cup Final on pens, that says it all!

I am not sure where we go from here. We have a decent-ish side. We're still a solid 1/4 final team but we do need to make improvements. It's a shame that players like Wilshere have basically lost a season of development now and promising players that McEachran is unlikely to get a chance to develop at the top level ... not cause 'he's not good enough' but there's no patience to allow a player to grow. He needs a seriously effective loan. I don't want these players going off to Villa or Sunderland they need to be playing at the top and in Europe regularly.

The front players weren't good at all. Ashley Young did not have a good tournament and neither did Milner although you kind of expected a bit more attacking threat from Young. Rooney was pretty disappointing for England, once again. I thought Carroll did well when he came on. We have got to impose ourselves on games more and get more out of players going forward. Having this defensive platform is great but we can't play like this all the time otherwise we'll be in exactly the same spot come World Cup time, hardly seeing the ball, giving it away when we do have it and losing on pens after a hard fought 120 minutes.

It's great with the build up we have had for the tournament but I do hope things develop. I do think Hodgson is a good coach and the players have responded to his instructions. How often can we say that about an England Manager? Time after time players don't do as they are told but he got them playing a particular style which was effective to a point. Hopefully he can take this further. I thought against Sweden we came out a bit more but we don't have any fluidity to our game and that really, really needs to change.

Oh well ... onto the Quals then

[smokie36]

<sigh>

What a beautiful day!

[StevieH]

oh, andrea pirlo's penalty by the way. jesus that took some stones.

[rijit]

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Then it would have been up to Rooney and Welbeck (and later Carroll) to put Pirlo under pressure because he was,literally, picking up the ball from the toes of his centre backs and setting up moves, but there was neither the effort or the inclination on their part to graft.

They tried, but when they won the ball,the bac 3 of Italy and mid holders were solid and straight on our strikers and they got little help with young and milner running from deep , later walcott pushed up but technically he looked poor and italy had him easily under control, . It took the Italian coach 15 ? mins to sort his shape out and from then on we were struggling. The more the game went on the more woys limitations were shown.

Edited June 25, 2012 by rijit

[Razzler1973]

We can't persist with a central midfield two at the very top level of international football but Hodgson does love his 4-4-2 so it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon :/

[JacknDanny]

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Of course Roy has to take some of the blame and there were some tactical issues, but let's be honest, a lot of the players simply didn't perform. Bearing in mind the time Roy had to prepare, i think he did a decent enough job. Put it this way, i am in no doubt we wouldn't have done any better under Capello, who had been working with the players and in the job a h3ll of a lot longer.

Added to which, it is good to have an English team again, no matter the results. Foreign managers leading national sides is all wrong for me. We've made a step back in the right direction. Hopefully with some more quality in the side for next time, we can push on from here. We are England though so no guarantees on that score!

honestly, and this isn't just because i don't like the man and think he's a complete spoofer, for me roy takes almost all the blame for that performance last night. it was absolutely cowardly. the players were told to play that way, it was his formation, his lack of changes and his ignoring of the player who was dictating the match, pirlo. roy was happy to take the plaudits for the changes that won the match against sweden, so he should take the responsibility here too.

ireland had more possession against italy than england did. 68% possession to 32%. 36 attempts on goal to 9. 8 on target to 1. joe hart, with 45, completed more passes than any other england player. pirlo had 131.

this is what roy is and what he does. i expect england to struggle to qualify for the next world cup while he is manager. which is a shame because the england players are actually a lot better than this.

You really think the England players are better than that?

Not by much.

Gerard is now too old, and Parker wasnt fully fit. certainly not to allow both players to play 90 minutes every few days.

Gerard was great first couple of games, but was shown up last night.

Rooney???? Played like he did in South Africa!!! Maybe it was what they call the Bounce Theory for a race horse ( 2nd outing after a lay off) but he was crap.

Young was a disgrace!!

Defensively they played ok, but in my mind they were just playing for penalties!!.

What other options were there? Can you think of an ENGLISH midfielder who could run the show like Pirlo??

Its certainly boring watching Roys teams, but he wasnt out there 'passing' the ball, or not passing as was the case!! They couldnt string 2 passes together.

[brit1984]

Awful performance by tired players in a tired formation.

Even if we had fluked a win on penalties, Germany would have crushed us in the semis.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[rixalex]

You really think the England players are better than that?

Not by much.

Gerard is now too old, and Parker wasnt fully fit. certainly not to allow both players to play 90 minutes every few days.

Gerard was great first couple of games, but was shown up last night.

Rooney???? Played like he did in South Africa!!! Maybe it was what they call the Bounce Theory for a race horse ( 2nd outing after a lay off) but he was crap.

Young was a disgrace!!

Defensively they played ok, but in my mind they were just playing for penalties!!.

What other options were there? Can you think of an ENGLISH midfielder who could run the show like Pirlo??

Its certainly boring watching Roys teams, but he wasnt out there 'passing' the ball, or not passing as was the case!! They couldnt string 2 passes together.

Agreed.

Some of the players are i think better than they showed, but the way they played, was in general very poor last night, and i don't think changing tactics would have made much difference. Of course the manager has to take responsibility for the loss, as he takes credit for a win, but i'm just not sure any other manager would have got a different result from players playing to that sort of standard. Does anyone here think we would have faired better under Capello?

[nev]

Can you think of an ENGLISH midfielder who could run the show like Pirlo??

The answer to you question, yes Paul Scholes can even at his age now and with Carrick and a holding midfielder we would have done a lot better than the Gerrard ad Parker, Gerrard both who just ran out of puff, Scholes evben at his age knows how to pace himself not run around like a headless chicken chasing the ball.

Woeful performance it is time for out with the old guard in with the new, but will Roy do this hahaha don't think so, but it is plain to see bring in the young guns and be patient with them they will gell and deliver in the long run.

[StevieH]

You really think the England players are better than that?

Not by much.

Gerard is now too old, and Parker wasnt fully fit. certainly not to allow both players to play 90 minutes every few days.

Gerard was great first couple of games, but was shown up last night.

Rooney???? Played like he did in South Africa!!! Maybe it was what they call the Bounce Theory for a race horse ( 2nd outing after a lay off) but he was crap.

Young was a disgrace!!

Defensively they played ok, but in my mind they were just playing for penalties!!.

What other options were there? Can you think of an ENGLISH midfielder who could run the show like Pirlo??

Its certainly boring watching Roys teams, but he wasnt out there 'passing' the ball, or not passing as was the case!! They couldnt string 2 passes together.

yeah, sure they are. 8 premier league winners and 4 champions league winners in there. the tactics were a joke - 4-4-2 in the modern game is just idiocy and concedes the midfield to your opponent. you then, if you don't change it, spend the rest of the match getting tired chasing and trying ti get possession back. it's moronic.

be interested to know who allowed rooney to go on holiday to vegas before the tournament. he looked incredibly off the pace and was blowing out of his arse after half an hour.

[rijit]

]

Maybe it was what they call the Bounce Theory for a race horse ( 2nd outing after a lay off) but he was crap.

Young was a disgrace!!

That's interesting ive been watching player come bac for years and noticed they either come bac and have a good game or 2 and then they fade or have a few or more poor games and then slowly get into stride, but after a lay off nearly always there are repercussions in players form.