Proposed Uk Settlement Visa Changes

[Basil B]

so are these changes fully confirmed and all set to be applied from july 9th? as in, there's zero chance of them being voted against/thrown out at all? Has it all been okayed by parliament? I hope to god theres some fuss been kicked up about this

As I understand it she has made a statement about her intentions, as a minister she is in charge of her department and can change the rules as she sees fit, the only time Parliament will have a say is if there is a need for new legislation or current legislation needs amending.

What is likely to happen is different groups including the opposition will look closely at the rule changes and if they see anything which may be contrary to current legislation the there may be legal challenges.

[demus20]

kind of heartbreaking news,for me anyway

[PeeJay1959]

I've just submitted an e-petition against these measures, I'll post a link if it gets approved then we can ALL sign it. I for one will be affected by the money side of things and I think my wife, who is still living in Thailand, will find it hard to get the higher level of English required.

[MAJIC]

An interesting slant to the frozen pension debate comes into play here.

The scenario could be that a British person of a certain age decide to live in their home country with their non Brit spouse, the Brit may be of pensionable age. The Brit may have a home in the UK, maybe savings but only income is the retirement pension, so would seem to fall foul of the new rules.

The Brit would seem to have a stark choice, do they remain overseas with their spouse, have their pension frozen and maybe have to sell their home, or do they abandon their spouse and return to the UK.

As previous posters have indicated I'm all for families not being a drain on the State, but this as ill thought out proposal and will open a can of worms when is applied.

Some good points Oldgit,and likely to fail in the European Courts Challenges,which are surely to follow,it's very obviously,ill conceived blatant Discrimination.

[hotwinter]

well ive decided to apply for another tourist visa for my gf. gonna wait and see if the rules get changed. if not i still need to be employed/working for 6 months before being able to apply. atleast i can be with her during some of that period im working.

still sucks tho! i wanted a settlement as she has been offered a job to start in september and now she wont be able to! once again the people who actually want to put something back into the system have been pushed out lol

[hotwinter]

also what makes no sense is that once your partner has settlement they want you to still have the 18600 per year to get FLR... BUT if your partner is working in england that then goes towards the proposed amount.

when you apply for the initail visa and she has a job offer, that cannot be put towards the amount. makes no sense! we will have that amount so surely it should be counted?

[Basil B]

This is very hasty contrived and little thought out, I would imagine most people who have been abroad for some time and returning to the UK have only one option, go self employed, it could take years to show you are earning 20K or so, particularly as you are 18 months behind compared to someone who is on PAYE even more so if they want to see audited accounts.

Suppose by the time you can prove you are earning enough they will challenge on the validity of the relationship because you have spent so much time apart.

[theblether]

Au contraire, you'll find that this new policy has been well thought out and costed. The government is heartily sick of perverse legal rulings and the courts are beginning to fall into line.

The Justiciary were getting to the point recently of going beyond their remit and challenging the authority of Parliament.

There have been new guidelines issued to the Justiciary and many immigration appeals are being dismissed out of hand.

There was a 'near miss' appeal dismissed the other week. Briefly, an immigrant was ordered out of the country after 4 years 10 months. His lawyer appealed on the basis that he was only a few weeks short of the 5 year settlement. It went all the way up the appeal process and it was held that there was no provision for appeal on the basis of near miss.

There's no discrimination, just qualification. The government is entitled to put down qualification levels, could you imagine the carnage if there were none??

I'm worried about the new English language test, I think my lady would struggle to pass the current test never mind a stricter one. So please don't get the impression that I don't care, I most certainly do.

However we have to face the reality that the 13 years of Labour rule brought a disgraceful and deliberate abuse of immigration control. Now we are all paying the price, and as per usual, the burden and penalty is falling on genuine UK citizens that have committed no greater crime than falling in love overseas.

Thanks for that Tony Blair.

Edited June 13, 2012 by theblether

[MB1]

Just my two bobs worth.

If the requirements were to be 10000 pounds people would still complain, I'm suprised no ones mentioned that the UK tax payer should pay for the flight as well for wife and kids to come and live in the UK.

Theblether made a point in the thread about someone wanting to bring a BG after rattling her for 3 nights and it's IMO a valid point because many have brought BG's back to the UK with no real means of supporting them but once in the UK expect the UK tax payer to support them.

And guess what, some of these people who bring the girls back to the UK are some of the same ones who complain about Immigrants, migrants and asylum seekers in the UK.

The government try to do something about the complaints of many and attempt to address it but are then attacked by some of those who complain.

This action being taken by the goverment is not just aimed at Thailand but many other Asian countrys, I suspect Pakistan being on the main hit list with India being another one.

Whether the UK can pass the reqirements as law remains to be seen and whilst I feel for some who want to bring their wife/family to the UK I still believe they have the responsibilty of supporting them and not expecting hand outs because they have no way of supporting a family in the UK.

Just my thoughts.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[simple1]

Just my two bobs worth.

If the requirements were to be 10000 pounds people would still complain, I'm suprised no ones mentioned that the UK tax payer should pay for the flight as well for wife and kids to come and live in the UK.

Theblether made a point in the thread about someone wanting to bring a BG after rattling her for 3 nights and it's IMO a valid point because many have brought BG's back to the UK with no real means of supporting them but once in the UK expect the UK tax payer to support them.

And guess what, some of these people who bring the girls back to the UK are some of the same ones who complain about Immigrants, migrants and asylum seekers in the UK.

The government try to do something about the complaints of many and attempt to address it but are then attacked by some of those who complain.

This action being taken by the goverment is not just aimed at Thailand but many other Asian countrys, I suspect Pakistan being on the main hit list with India being another one.

Whether the UK can pass the reqirements as law remains to be seen and whilst I feel for some who want to bring their wife/family to the UK I still believe they have the responsibilty of supporting them and not expecting hand outs because they have no way of supporting a family in the UK.

Just my thoughts.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

Some valid points. I used to live in Australia and some men who I personally knew with a Thai wife used to complain about Asian immigrants, including Thais, coming into the country - just bizarre

[demus20]

no one is moaning about those who are bringing prostitutes back as wives to the uk, who are unemployed (?) or anything like that. Thats fair enough and should be rejected of course.

but people like myself who earn a reasonable wage but havent had the opportunities yet to earn more, i cant meet this requirement. I pay my taxes and have done for years.

If my partner was british, id still be earning the same money i do now, and i'd still be easily able to support her without begging from the government.

its not rocket science. Also arent those arriving on settlement visas unable to claim benefits? how is my partner going to be burden on the tax payer? she is a hardworking woman with very good english having worked in a travel tourist office for many years. she is not some uneducated hooker!

i just feel these new rules are going to hurt a lot of genuine families who dont need to go begging for handouts.

Edited June 14, 2012 by demus20

[VisasPlus]

I have attached a very simple calculator for the new income/savings requirement. You only need to use this if your salary is below 18,600 per year.

To use : 1. In the "18600 minus annual salary " line, put your salary ( after deducting it from 18,600 ) in cell number E5. e.g if your salary is 15,000, then you put 3,600 in cell E5. This is the only variable number in the calculation.

2. Click on cell E12. Whatever appears is the amount of savings you need in addition to your annual salary.

EDIT: Sorry. It won't let me upload an Excel file ! 7x7 - you can delete the post.

Edited June 14, 2012 by VisasPlus

[7by7]

A reminder that these measures, if introduced, will apply to family migrants from all nonEEA countries, not just Thailand and other Asian countries.

Also that how a couple met and the previous occupation of one or both of them is irrelevant as far as the current rules are concerned, and as far as these new measures are concerned, too. What is important under the rules is that they are in a genuine relationship and can meet the maintenance and accommodation requirements, old or new.

That is what should be important to us here as well!

[Kevin1908]

Earing £18600 pa you can get a visa, earn £18500 you don't. How is that not discrimination? You can marry a British or EU person who will be a burden on the tax payer but not a non EU person who will not be a burden because they are skilled and can work. How is that not discrimination.

A pensioner on less than £18600 who is not going to claim unemployment benefit who has his own house fuuly paid for and therefore has an income to suit his or her needs will be discrimiated against.

If a gay man can marry an unemployed East European but a British man can't marry (in the UK) or get a visa for a partner married in Thailand and earning less than £18600 pa is to my mind blatent discrimination.

Quote from the BBC "

Between January and December 2009, 59,000 people from outside the EU were granted a visa to live with their partner in the UK.

According to the latest figures provided by the Office for National Statistics, 503,000 people moved to the UK between September 2008 and September 2009"

At best we are talking a drop in the ocean but given there are hundreds of thousands affected by introducing gay marriage and all voters verses a few thousand caught by the non EU visa rule then I guess that the Goverment can get away with it.

And this does nothing for community relations in the UK. Imagine how a British man will feel having been denied the right to bringing in his Thai wife to the UK but finds himself leaving next to immigrants on minimum wage. I know how I would feel.

[VisasPlus]

I have attached a very simple calculator for the new income/savings requirement. You only need to use this if your salary is below 18,600 per year.

To use : 1. In the "18600 minus annual salary " line, put your salary ( after deducting it from 18,600 ) in cell number E5. e.g if your salary is 15,000, then you put 3,600 in cell E5. This is the only variable number in the calculation.

2. Click on cell E12. Whatever appears is the amount of savings you need in addition to your annual salary.

EDIT: Sorry. It won't let me upload an Excel file ! 7x7 - you can delete the post.

If anyone is unable to do the calculation for salary/savings ( the formula is in the Statement of Intent), and wants to try the Excel file that I couldn't post, then send me a PM with your email address and I will send the Excel spreadsheet to you.

Unless there is a way of posting Excel attachments here ?????

[Basil B]

What is clear the Government is setting a earnings level which IMHO is way to high particularly for those outside of the M25, I do not argue that one should demonstrate ones ability to support one family if moving to the UK, but £18,600 for a Scottish Crofter is stupid, proving that this is ill thought out.

I think the logic behind this may be the immigration of certain ethnic groups who form their own communities and trade between themselves, “Cash in Hand” and do not declare all their incomes.

I does seem discriminatory to say that someone can not marry and live as man and wife in a country where the “bread winner lives and works” and pays their taxes with someone of none EU nationality on the basis of they may be a burden on the system when we have so many of our own indigenous population who come from generations of benefit scroungers who probably will never ever contribute to the system, but nobody says you can not form a relation with them, yet many see the only need for a “relationship” is temporary for the purpose of getting pregnant in order to get more benefits.

[theblether]

Earing £18600 pa you can get a visa, earn £18500 you don't. How is that not discrimination? You can marry a British or EU person who will be a burden on the tax payer but not a non EU person who will not be a burden because they are skilled and can work. How is that not discrimination.

A pensioner on less than £18600 who is not going to claim unemployment benefit who has his own house fuuly paid for and therefore has an income to suit his or her needs will be discrimiated against.

If a gay man can marry an unemployed East European but a British man can't marry (in the UK) or get a visa for a partner married in Thailand and earning less than £18600 pa is to my mind blatent discrimination.

Quote from the BBC "

Between January and December 2009, 59,000 people from outside the EU were granted a visa to live with their partner in the UK.

According to the latest figures provided by the Office for National Statistics, 503,000 people moved to the UK between September 2008 and September 2009"

At best we are talking a drop in the ocean but given there are hundreds of thousands affected by introducing gay marriage and all voters verses a few thousand caught by the non EU visa rule then I guess that the Goverment can get away with it.

And this does nothing for community relations in the UK. Imagine how a British man will feel having been denied the right to bringing in his Thai wife to the UK but finds himself leaving next to immigrants on minimum wage. I know how I would feel.

It's not discrimination, it's qualification.

Let's undo your argument in one fell swoop. Please explain to me why the qualification to live in the UK is set at approx 70% of the average wage, but the qualification income level to retire to Thailand is about 700% more than the Thai average wage?

Compare like with like please, there are Treaties in place that give UK citizens automatic rights of residence and other benefits in EU countries.

There is no such Treaty in place with Thailand, and I would suggest to you that Thailand makes it far more difficult, in fact well nigh impossible for many, to get permanent residence.

So it's not discrimination, it's qualification.

Now we all may have various difficulties with the new rules, including myself.

@Basil B, the average wage in Scotland is £20862, so yes it will be tighter for some Scots to qualify by percentage.

Your other points about benefit scroungers are out of order and offensive. Please remember these are our fellow British citizens and it most certainly not for you or I to judge who may or may not have relationships and procreate in our country.

We had to go to war against the last mob that held those views, so cool your jets and have a good think about what your saying.

Edited June 14, 2012 by theblether

[tribalfusion001]

Easy solution to the new guidelines is, don't bother applying for a settlement visa to the UK. My wife got her settlement visa on 25th May, we arrived in the UK on 31st May and have spent the last 2 weeks job hunting for me and her, so far she has baked 1 cake and received £30 for payment and done 6 hours work as a kitchen assistant, they haven't contacted her since Tuesday when she did 2 hours work, she did 4 hours work for them last Friday as trial/test and now I got to chase her monies owed as it's looks like they won't be needing her again.

Unless you wife has English skills as good as an native speaker, there will not be many jobs for her. We have applied for about 20+ cooking jobs so far, just one which was interested and they have cooled their interest. Even the cleaning jobs are hard too find and once you factor in travel costs, two hours cleaning a day with bus and train tickets makes the job not worth while. Her job in Bangkok was a cook, bakery, Thai, English, Italian, so has enough experience, Thai restaurants generally don't pay the minimum wage and we have contacted all of the local one's already.

If money is not object and you just want you wife to be with in the UK you will be fine, if you want her work and contribute the household you will find it hard, once you factor in the costs of the visa and further extensions, life in the UK and B1 English tests, it maybe better to relocate to Thailand!

[MB1]

Easy solution to the new guidelines is, don't bother applying for a settlement visa to the UK. My wife got her settlement visa on 25th May, we arrived in the UK on 31st May and have spent the last 2 weeks job hunting for me and her, so far she has baked 1 cake and received £30 for payment and done 6 hours work as a kitchen assistant, they haven't contacted her since Tuesday when she did 2 hours work, she did 4 hours work for them last Friday as trial/test and now I got to chase her monies owed as it's looks like they won't be needing her again.

Unless you wife has English skills as good as an native speaker, there will not be many jobs for her. We have applied for about 20+ cooking jobs so far, just one which was interested and they have cooled their interest. Even the cleaning jobs are hard too find and once you factor in travel costs, two hours cleaning a day with bus and train tickets makes the job not worth while. Her job in Bangkok was a cook, bakery, Thai, English, Italian, so has enough experience, Thai restaurants generally don't pay the minimum wage and we have contacted all of the local one's already.

If money is not object and you just want you wife to be with in the UK you will be fine, if you want her work and contribute the household you will find it hard, once you factor in the costs of the visa and further extensions, life in the UK and B1 English tests, it maybe better to relocate to Thailand!

You arrived on May the 31st and you sound like your giving up already, it don't happen in a day, keep trying like 1000s of others do in the UK and something good may turn up, but lets not forget the UK is a very competitive jobs market at the moment.

[tribalfusion001]

I know it's competitive and too many places that take advantage or are full of BS. I've always thought about why immigrants want to come here and always come to the same conclusion, they are mad!

[Stabbo-Lad]

My wife and stepson came to the UK last August on a 27 month Spouse Visa and we will be applying for ILR as soon as we're elible (August 2013. She's already passed the KOL exam btw). Will these new laws affect us or just just new applications to enter the UK?

SL.

[Stabbo-Lad]

23. A partner, child or adult dependent relative who has been granted, or who has applied for, leave to enter or remain in the UK on the family route (or a partner of a migrant with leave under the Points Based System) before 9 July 2012 will remain subject to the rules in force prior to that date. They will be able to reach settlement in the UK (including those granted or who have applied for leave as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner) if they qualify for it under the rules in force prior to 9 July 2012, subject to the requirement from October 2013 to pass the Life in the UK test and to present an English language speaking and listening qualification at B1 level or above to qualify for settlement.

I think I've just answered my own question.

[demus20]

im wondering;

if, say, you were to be granted a settlement visa, based on your employment income, which is below 18600, and also savings (16k + the 2.5 x short comings of your salary)

Once you are all fine and dandy in the UK, are you still able to claim working tax credit and child tax benefit for yourself? i cant see anything in the new guidelines saying you will or wont be able to claim.

[theblether]

Easy solution to the new guidelines is, don't bother applying for a settlement visa to the UK. My wife got her settlement visa on 25th May, we arrived in the UK on 31st May and have spent the last 2 weeks job hunting for me and her, so far she has baked 1 cake and received £30 for payment and done 6 hours work as a kitchen assistant, they haven't contacted her since Tuesday when she did 2 hours work, she did 4 hours work for them last Friday as trial/test and now I got to chase her monies owed as it's looks like they won't be needing her again.

Unless you wife has English skills as good as an native speaker, there will not be many jobs for her. We have applied for about 20+ cooking jobs so far, just one which was interested and they have cooled their interest. Even the cleaning jobs are hard too find and once you factor in travel costs, two hours cleaning a day with bus and train tickets makes the job not worth while. Her job in Bangkok was a cook, bakery, Thai, English, Italian, so has enough experience, Thai restaurants generally don't pay the minimum wage and we have contacted all of the local one's already.

If money is not object and you just want you wife to be with in the UK you will be fine, if you want her work and contribute the household you will find it hard, once you factor in the costs of the visa and further extensions, life in the UK and B1 English tests, it maybe better to relocate to Thailand!

In effect you are proving the governments point that it is essential that you are able to support your wife.

That being said, keep going, something will turn up and it will all work out in the end.

All the best.

Ps, go have a look at your local gumtree.com, there will be jobs on that. You can also advertise in the jobs wanted column free of charge. If your ambitious, put an advert on the spotlight page, it will cost £20 or so but the amount of people that will see it is amazing.

Edited June 15, 2012 by theblether

[theoldgit]

This proposal was discussed on last nights Question Time, interesting debate broadly split amongst party lines.

General feeling that the issue needs debating but also a general feeling that the bar was set too high and that setting a specific figure was wrong, there should be guidelines but the person deciding the application should be allowed to use their discretion and assess each application on merit.

[VisasPlus]

This proposal was discussed on last nights Question Time, interesting debate broadly split amongst party lines.

General feeling that the issue needs debating but also a general feeling that the bar was set too high and that setting a specific figure was wrong, there should be guidelines but the person deciding the application should be allowed to use their discretion and assess each application on merit.

I broadly agree. I think the government has made a big mistake by setting an absolute, the income level. Apart from the fact that it will get challenged in the courts, it doesn't address the matter of, for instance, expenditure against income. At least the current system makes the sponsor "prove" that he can support the applicant financially.

[theblether]

To be fair to the government, it's normal practise to set a proposal then watch the reaction. That's the whole point of the Parliamentary system. Propose, consult, modify, vote, implement.

Then spend the next hundred years in court arguing with twisted faced lawyers and judges about the minutae and spirit of the law.

[7by7]

This proposal was discussed on last nights Question Time, interesting debate broadly split amongst party lines.

According to an ECO I spoke to in 2000, the reason why a settlement visa was so much more expensive than a visit visa was because the settlement visa fee included the cost of processing the subsequent FLR, if needed, and ILR applications.

Remember how Blair started this whole ball rolling by introducing massive fees for FLR and ILR applications without reducing the settlement visa fee; indeed he increased it?

Remember how both the Conservatives and the LibDems vociferously complained about this at the time?

Ditto when Labour increased student visa fees?

My MP at the time was Shadow Immigration Minister and I wrote to him at that time. He replied that these new fees were totally unfair and that his party would certainly do something about them when they were next in power.

Have they? Yes; they've increased them even more!

Politicians say one thing when in opposition and another when in power. If the sitting government said the sky was blue the opposition would swear it wasn't.

Guy Fawkes; the only person to enter Parliament with honest intentions.

[MaprangHolmes]

are these proposed UK settlement visa changes or are they definite settlement visa changes?

as the title of the thread sounds like they are only proposing to change the rules but reading the threads it sound like they are going to change the rules.

[VisasPlus]

They are changes that are before Parliament for approval - not proposals any more. This is the Command Paper for approval :

New Rules HC 194.pdf