'Politics Is The Ruin Of Our School System': Thai Academic

[Baerboxer]

The Irony is that the incompetent officials he talks about are all products of the Education system.

I thought they went to school at Oxford.

If you are referring to Abhisit he went to school at Eton and went to University in Oxford. Nothing wrong with his education.

Indeed, Abhisit was very fortunate to attend these two wonderful places of education. Reminds me of all those left-wing UK politicians who delighted in destroying the British grammar school sytems which worked on merit, something they detested. Oh, of course they continued to send their children to private schools! Looks like politicians have a lot in common - we'll screw things up for you, but make sure we're ok.

[123thaibourbon]

[Skywalker69]

The Irony is that the incompetent officials he talks about are all products of the Education system.

I thought they went to school at Oxford.

If you are referring to Abhisit he went to school at Eton and went to University in Oxford. Nothing wrong with his education.

Nothing wrong with his English either.

[Skywalker69]

'Politics is the ruin of our school system'

A World Class Standard Message.......

Could also be read 'Politics is the ruin of our Country"

[garrya]

The Irony is that the incompetent officials he talks about are all products of the Education system.

I thought they went to school at Oxford.

If you are referring to Abhisit he went to school at Eton and went to University in Oxford. Nothing wrong with his education.

Nothing wrong with his English either.

He was born in Newcastle and spent half of his life in England. Why wouldn't his English be good?

[JohnAllan]

"Ministers work superficially and do things nonsensically. They just want to be in the media spotlight and make the headlines," said Sirichai.

The current education minister is a fine example, with his unjustified, and unjustifiable, and cretinous support of a corrupt - and illegal - subsidiary school admissions system.

But he is simply a symptom of a much more deep rooted problem which has little chance of resolution unless, and until, the electorate - the electorate, not little tin pot dictators wearing shirts of many colours - realise that they need to insist on better representation, with MPs that are capable of initiating sweeping and innovative changes into parliament and into Thailand's political system.

Edited June 11, 2012 by JohnAllan

[JohnAllan]

The Irony is that the incompetent officials he talks about are all products of the Education system.

I thought they went to school at Oxford.

If you are referring to Abhisit he went to school at Eton and went to University in Oxford. Nothing wrong with his education.

Indeed, Abhisit was very fortunate to attend these two wonderful places of education. Reminds me of all those left-wing UK politicians who delighted in destroying the British grammar school sytems which worked on merit, something they detested. Oh, of course they continued to send their children to private schools! Looks like politicians have a lot in common - we'll screw things up for you, but make sure we're ok.

A number of whom - most notably the education secretary responsible for the introduction of the 'comprehensive' education system, Shirley Williams - went on to form the Liberal Democrats.

[Pseudolus]

The real head line should be;

"Lack of education about real world politics, historical events, their impact on the world; lessons to be learnt is the ruin of our country"

As the kids base their belief system and moral compass on a load of made up rubbish without even a cursory glance to what is happening and has happened in the real world away from the Neon lights of Pattaya which supports their tourist capital of the world idea, they have no chance. The whole country is little more than a whining 3 year old screaming for an ice cream.

[graeme64]

Oh boy - I am not sure any thread has ever had more poor responses. Why have SOOOOO many of you replied and talked about English education. No where in the article does it mention teaching Engllish. (mass emplyment of Philipinoes is NOt the answer to that problem BTW). Then almost every one else has talked about universities.

Maybe this is what the article was about (and if so I oppologise) and I missed something but it is not mentioned - the guy is saying the education system is the problem. This means primary, secondary AND university education.

and it is terrible and needs fixing. But just basic education Maths, etc. Yes English can help but they need a basic education as well.

Government schools here are closed ALL the time for no reason. Phuket Games, closes the schools so we can house some of the athletes, a goverment minister is coming to Phuket, stop teaching for 2 weeks, have the students CLEAN the school and practice the welcome ceremony for a week. These children just don't get any kind of education at all. And sadly, as suggested here, it has been suggested to me many times that those at the top have no benefit from educating the masses. Whether this is why, I of course dont know, but the Free Goverment Education in this country is a TOTAL mess,

G

[kerryk]

Spain today and then there was Ireland and Greece a while back. And what brain trusts lent them the money? Hmmm.

What is unemployment in France? 10%. How about the USA? How long has it been since Ford opened up a new factory in Detroit? They just opened one in Thailand, didn't they? Unemployment in Thailand?

When was the last time you read an atricle about smelly, fat, Thais in football shirts offending anyone?

Talk about screaming three year olds, try watching a football match in Poland. Now that is a screwed up education system. Or a country that could produce ........

[ralphlsasser]

You can't ruin something that's already broken.

[oops]

The problems are all pointed out correctly and we all know them. However, "throw the bums out" is not a realistic solution. A do-able--though highly unlikely--solution is for us farangs and for the Thai government to forget our pride and admit that the solution is on the ASEAN doorstep: Hire qualified, certified, well-trained Filipinos, who have all studied and used English in their educational system (and beyond, and please keep the bar girl cracks out of this) since they were in kindergarten. BUT: You must be willing to pay them the same as the "native speakers" get, a general starting salary of 30,000 Bhat per month. Right now they are hired on a 2nd tier-2nd class citizen system that just simply isn't enough for them to support their families and live here simultaneously. The Filipinos certainly know more than the majority of the native Thai "English" teachers who monitor the classrooms. I have lived and worked in both the Philippines and Thailand for many years, and though the Filipinos don't have the "queen's English," as so many farang administrators want, the only solution is to get rid of the backpacker crowd, whose only qualifications are their nationality, and bring in the professionals for the same money. You know what this requires? Nothing more than the cessation of pride and vanity on the part of both the entrenched farangs and the Thais.

I have also taught in the Middle East for many years, where professional Filipino teachers, of both genders, are subject to constant sexual and professional harassment. They do their jobs well, they work hard, and they don't complain about the treatment. Why? Because they are given airfare and the equivalent of about 30,000 Bhat per month to work there. And let me tell you from much personal experience--they would much, much rather be in Southeast Asia than in the Middle East.

So: Flame away. But if you do, leave the vanity of your skin color behind.

I think you missunderstand the point he is trying to make. It isn't about English teachers, and Filipinos English teachers can't teach Thai. This is about the schools having an ability to teach students to read and write in their native language. To be creative thinkers instead of repeating after a teacher that has be hired becaue her husband is an admiral in the military. To hire teachers that can create a positive learning enviroment and let me tell you the Phillipino teachers won't do any more that the Thai staff allow them to do nor are they the sulotion to a very deep problem. Thai teachers only like to hit the children when they don't understand thinking they can beat the knowledge into them "most of us know that doesn't work". I also am awhere of a shool where the Librarian parks her car on the covered path when rains so the children have to walk out in the rain in their socks only because she didn't want to park out where the rest of the teachers park, her husband out ranks everyone in the school. This same librarian came into the class and changed the lessons plans so that the children would be graded on colouring pictures only. I know for a fact that M-1 to M-6 were being taught nursery ryhmes all year long by the Thai Teachers and colouring pictures . The Thai teachers also came up with the idea if the students didn't pass test that Thai teachers as well as English teachers were to test them again but give them the answers So this isn't about English. i will never understand why all the English teachers start talking about saving the children through English programs or what would be best, because this has nothing to do with speaking English. Which means its not about the Brits,Americans,Filipinos

The world around Thailand is growing. Thailand won't have anyone competent enough to compete with other coutries, let alone anyone qualified to run the country, because the wealthy children who are allowed to go to good schools usually don't use their education in manner that is conducive to this country. Thai businessmen already complain about the lack of skilled labor that is doesn't really exist. Thailand will pay the price in the near future as the world moves to Hi-tech. I think we will see the countries around Thailand prosper before these people get it and Malaysia is a perfect example.

For me....I think they should just leave it...."MAI BIN RAI" China and America are ramping it up and if China has their way this country along with the others in the Asian Pacific will be ruled by China and China will impliment their curiculim

Edited June 11, 2012 by oops

[oops]

[media=]

[/media]

I didn't know Mr. Rogers could Rap

[Narratio]

Must agree with comments on the bad state of the Thai government run education system. I pay for 10 year old daughter to attend a private school following UK curricula. Her cousin, just 4 days younger, attends a regular Thai school (I'm not made of money, can't pay for both). The difference in quantity, quality and areas of knowledge is gigantic. Her cousin is still doing stuff by rote copying, mass class repetitions of times tables, the compulsory day wearing girl scout uniform for some reason or other and painting by numbers (or so it seems)

I see my daughter helping her cousin with the three Thai R's reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic as her cousin, a not stupid young girl, is woefully ignorant. My daughter gets 1-2 hours of homework each night, stuff designed to make her think about what she learned that day. Her cousin gets maybe a page. And that's usually copying a printed text.

I have no idea what higher education is like, but do not hold any hopes of it being much better.

[billd766]

The saddest thing of all is that the children going through school now are the future of Thailand.

Unless the Education Ministry is taken by the scruff of its neck and shaken hard enough for all the dead wood and timeservers to fall out, then given a severe kicking and pointed towards the future then Thailand will always be a poor country.

Granted a small percentage will rise up on their abilities though a larger percentage will rise on somebodys coattails or through the "patronage" system but it won't be enough to make a big difference.

It seems that Education has the biggest budget in the country with perhaps the smallest of returns.

[Thaddeus]

For the quality of education in Thailand to improve, politics and politicians need to be kept as far away from it as possible, first and foremost.

I have visited many schools here, some very recently. They have some very good teachers, both capable and willing, but they also have some who just punch-in, punch-out, do little in-between and collect the salary, knowing that it is a job for life with a pension at the end of it. That needs to change, as those teachers are just barnacles on a boat, and the more of them there are, the faster the boat sinks.

A handful of teachers who know how to teach and are willing to put some effort in to it are worth more than any number of teachers by name only who just show up for work, some don't even show up.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

There are excellent Thai teachers - I know many dedicated professionals who work very hard yet are paid very poorly when compared to expat teachers.

No matter how great a teacher one is, if your level of English is very low you have no business teaching it.

The kids are better off getting no English than learning it wrong and then having to try to unlearn later on.

[cooked]

The shame of it is that when you do manage to get a Thai through his education without passing through the school system, they can be very bright indeed. My wife got only two years of school and self educated herself. Her English is better than that of the village school teacher, and she didn't learn it in bars. She had never had a map in her hands before I met her, one day after explaining the principle of map reading, she was directing me cross country. I imagine that she is not an exception, however without a piece of paper she will never get a 'good' job.

[Baerboxer]

There are excellent Thai teachers - I know many dedicated professionals who work very hard yet are paid very poorly when compared to expat teachers.

No matter how great a teacher one is, if your level of English is very low you have no business teaching it.

The kids are better off getting no English than learning it wrong and then having to try to unlearn later on.

Correct - that's why I said " professional qualified capable teachers" - they should be academically qualified to teach the subject, as well as being trained to teach and supervised whilst gaining experience. Finland, which currently tops some polls in education, uses this method. But, Finland also recognises teachers as professionals and remunerates them accordingly.

[Baerboxer]

The problems are all pointed out correctly and we all know them. However, "throw the bums out" is not a realistic solution. A do-able--though highly unlikely--solution is for us farangs and for the Thai government to forget our pride and admit that the solution is on the ASEAN doorstep: Hire qualified, certified, well-trained Filipinos, who have all studied and used English in their educational system (and beyond, and please keep the bar girl cracks out of this) since they were in kindergarten. BUT: You must be willing to pay them the same as the "native speakers" get, a general starting salary of 30,000 Bhat per month. Right now they are hired on a 2nd tier-2nd class citizen system that just simply isn't enough for them to support their families and live here simultaneously. The Filipinos certainly know more than the majority of the native Thai "English" teachers who monitor the classrooms. I have lived and worked in both the Philippines and Thailand for many years, and though the Filipinos don't have the "queen's English," as so many farang administrators want, the only solution is to get rid of the backpacker crowd, whose only qualifications are their nationality, and bring in the professionals for the same money. You know what this requires? Nothing more than the cessation of pride and vanity on the part of both the entrenched farangs and the Thais.

I have also taught in the Middle East for many years, where professional Filipino teachers, of both genders, are subject to constant sexual and professional harassment. They do their jobs well, they work hard, and they don't complain about the treatment. Why? Because they are given airfare and the equivalent of about 30,000 Bhat per month to work there. And let me tell you from much personal experience--they would much, much rather be in Southeast Asia than in the Middle East.

So: Flame away. But if you do, leave the vanity of your skin color behind.

I think you missunderstand the point he is trying to make. It isn't about English teachers, and Filipinos English teachers can't teach Thai. This is about the schools having an ability to teach students to read and write in their native language. To be creative thinkers instead of repeating after a teacher that has be hired becaue her husband is an admiral in the military. To hire teachers that can create a positive learning enviroment and let me tell you the Phillipino teachers won't do any more that the Thai staff allow them to do nor are they the sulotion to a very deep problem. Thai teachers only like to hit the children when they don't understand thinking they can beat the knowledge into them "most of us know that doesn't work". I also am awhere of a shool where the Librarian parks her car on the covered path when rains so the children have to walk out in the rain in their socks only because she didn't want to park out where the rest of the teachers park, her husband out ranks everyone in the school. This same librarian came into the class and changed the lessons plans so that the children would be graded on colouring pictures only. I know for a fact that M-1 to M-6 were being taught nursery ryhmes all year long by the Thai Teachers and colouring pictures . The Thai teachers also came up with the idea if the students didn't pass test that Thai teachers as well as English teachers were to test them again but give them the answers So this isn't about English. i will never understand why all the English teachers start talking about saving the children through English programs or what would be best, because this has nothing to do with speaking English. Which means its not about the Brits,Americans,Filipinos

The world around Thailand is growing. Thailand won't have anyone competent enough to compete with other coutries, let alone anyone qualified to run the country, because the wealthy children who are allowed to go to good schools usually don't use their education in manner that is conducive to this country. Thai businessmen already complain about the lack of skilled labor that is doesn't really exist. Thailand will pay the price in the near future as the world moves to Hi-tech. I think we will see the countries around Thailand prosper before these people get it and Malaysia is a perfect example.

For me....I think they should just leave it...."MAI BIN RAI" China and America are ramping it up and if China has their way this country along with the others in the Asian Pacific will be ruled by China and China will impliment their curiculim

Of course the whole system needs overhauling - regardless of particular subject. (This is true of many other countries too). But anyone who wants to obtain a university degree or study abroad at somepoint will need English. The language of business is English, the language of medicine is English, the language of science is English. There are more people in China learning English than the population of the UK. Lack of English skills is a major limiting factor in so many ways. That's perhaps why people focus on English teaching, perhaps more than they should as the other subjects are also very important. But, many of the comments applied to English teaching apply to the other subjects, and many expat teachers are also used in maths and science.

[humbug]

_{isnt is alsothe problem of the nationalis propaganda being thrown down the throats of school children instead of actually education children in the way of learning to think}

[davehowden]

More to the point I think "religion" and it's trappings are the ruin of Thailand.

Time to "grow up" and stop making everything "Bhudda's problem". Take responsibility for yourselves.

[123thaibourbon]

not so much about religion or 'China'. internal affliction, old idea about English being the demise of cultural id. rather, young people who are multi-lingual may appreciate their Thai heritage even more? isolationalism is never an option..

[kotsak]

Let them eat tablets from the Economist - http://www.economist.com/node/21556940 Edited June 14, 2012 by kotsak