webfact Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 BURNING ISSUE Govt realises it needs top court on side Avudh Panananda The Nation The government appears to be moving in the right direction to defuse the tension over charter change. BANGKOK: -- Despite the battle cry of the red shirts, coalition whips are working to pacify the opposition rather than flex their majority might to inflame the situation. Chief coalition whip Udomdej Ratanasatien has confirmed Parliament will not vote today on final passage of the charter change bill. In a related development, House Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont earlier shelved debate on the reconciliation bill due to the strong opposition to granting amnesty for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. This means the opposing camps will have time to cool down before the next parliamentary session. The conflict is, however, far from over. The upcoming House recess is a welcome respite from fractious politics. Unless the anti- and pro-government camps can work out a compromise, political volatility will not dissipate. Between the two contentious issues, changing the charter is more of a risk for triggering political strife than amnesty for Thaksin. The reconciliation bill, sponsored by Matubhum Party leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin, is one of several options designed to rescue Thaksin. Serious debate on the fate of the ousted prime minister is expected to take place in conjunction with the charter drafting process. Many see the Sonthi-sponsored bill as a decoy to test the political wind before the actual legislation to absolve Thaksin of his conviction and punishment is unveiled. To prevent a repeat of political strife, the government is obliged to carefully plot its next move to ensure the drafting of a new charter is acceptable to all sides. The push to weed out influence from the 2006 coup over the political system is admirable if the advancement of democracy is the actual goal. But doubts remain about an ulterior motive to manipulate the political system to get revenge on individuals and agencies seen as opposed to Thaksin. The coalition whips are spot-on with their assessment that smooth passage of charter change will hinge on the judicial inquiry by the Constitution Court. The government, legislature and judiciary must work together instead of against one another if the country is to thrive in a democracy. Change to the Constitution is meant to enshrine a sustainable political system. The key word is "sustainable", which will not happen if the three powers vested by the people are out of sync with one another before the drafting process commences. A rush to vote on the bill is futile because the charter rewrite cannot start until the constitutionality issue is settled by the high court. Government legal strategists have to map out an elaborate plan to defeat the complaints against charter change. First, the government will have to decide whether to take the lead role in the judicial inquiry or delegate the responsibility to the legislature, particularly the coalition whips. Second, the rebuttals have to overcome an unresolved issue - why the Parliament president is designated to review the constitutionality of the charter draft in lieu of the high court. Although the coalition agreed, during the vetting process, to instruct the Constitution Drafting Assembly not to change the provisions on the monarchy, it insisted on bypassing the high court should a dispute on constitutionality arise before the referendum vote. This has fuelled suspicion about a hidden agenda. The judicial inquiry is tentatively scheduled to commence early next month and be completed within a month. If the opposing sides rely on reason, an amicable settlement on charter change should emerge soon. -- The Nation 2012-06-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 A lot to digest in that article, what it boils down to is even the Red Shirts are starting to realize the cost of pardoning TS will be too high. If a motion is ever brought to Parliament to that effect there will be serious violence within the chamber, never mind on the streets. In my opinion, there will be a few guns pointed at heads and some currently fervent supporters of the pardon will shrink away. I can't see TS ever coming back, he has too many mortal enemies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gand Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Civil war averted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Absolving Thaksin and giving him his money back isn't the endgame it is only stage one of the plan, in my humble opinion. If this 'breathing space' means only that or if PTP will back down and relent is another thing altogether. What other policies have they got to fall back on? This absolution process is the only toy in their cupboard. If they do back down it will be interesting to see what other use they can put their government to. Maybe even helping the poor? Only joking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 oh goodie "the Nation speaks! load of twaddle Yingluck has had no choice but they will win in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunterHunter Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me I dont remember seeing any reports of violence at the last protest, obviously there must have been a little scuffle as they stop the police from moving them, but no reports of death or injury that i remember reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) oh goodie "the Nation speaks! load of twaddle Yingluck has had no choice but they will win in the end The Shinawatras and friends might win, nobody else is going to win especially not the farmers and factory-workers. Edited June 12, 2012 by Yunla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me "... this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest'...." What violence? Oh I see, put it in inverted commas and you can smear without having to prove it. I don't normally ask this, but was it in the UK? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) We didn't hear about the DP protestors using violence because the DP control the media. They had pedestal-howitzers and everything it was horrible. Edited June 12, 2012 by Yunla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 oh goodie "the Nation speaks! load of twaddle Yingluck has had no choice but they will win in the end The Red Flag "The people's flag is deepest red, It shrouded oft our martyred dead, And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold, Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold. Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here. etc etc, ad nauseum. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker69 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me violent protest? this time police and yellows were complete peaceful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I am confused. Isn't there a separation of powers? Why is the Court decided on legislative matters before they become a law? The country can be very confusing at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini81 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me How is life overseas from Thailand? There was no violence. An opposition party opposing cronyism, exceptions and looking for fair checks and balances is violence, or are M-79's, vandalism, and burning a capital what you call violence? Some people's lack of knowledge and being naive at the same time amazes me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me I don't support any violent protest and have as much time for the idiot yellows as I do for the idiot reds. However, remind me, how many people did the Yellows kill? How many grenades did they fire? How many armed personnel hid in their ranks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gand Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me How is life overseas from Thailand? There was no violence. An opposition party opposing cronyism, exceptions and looking for fair checks and balances is violence, or are M-79's, vandalism, and burning a capital what you call violence? Some people's lack of knowledge and being naive at the same time amazes me. Me thinks he has been drinking too much evian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini81 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 oh goodie "the Nation speaks! load of twaddle Yingluck has had no choice but they will win in the end The Shinawatras and friends might win, nobody else is going to win especially not the farmers and factory-workers. No, they can't as long as they support corruption that directly oppresses them. Seeing it on their micro level, and not bothering to look at the effects on a macro level, encouraging pheua thai to get richer on one's back certainly doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me I don't support any violent protest and have as much time for the idiot yellows as I do for the idiot reds. However, remind me, how many people did the Yellows kill? How many grenades did they fire? How many armed personnel hid in their ranks? you know full well they took over the airports and nothing was done - nothing at all, no police, no army nothing so yes it was fairly peaceful from that point of view although many would argue the yellow supporters killed many in Bangkok including inside a Temple but I don't think it's helpful to go over this yet again and it is OFF TOPIC. my point was aimed at the disgraceful acts inside Parliament where the yellow MP's fought and disrupted the Speaker and barricaded outside so MP's could not work - you support this? against the elected government? you think it helps? you think the reds will go 'oh well let the yellows win'? BOTH side have to stop fighting and reconciliation is the only answer going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregb Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I am confused. Isn't there a separation of powers? Why is the Court decided on legislative matters before they become a law? The country can be very confusing at times. And only the king is supposed to have the power to pardon convicted criminals. But this is Thailand where the legislature tries to retroactively change the laws and pardon fugitives, and the court tries to stop them from doing so. Not only confusing but dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I am confused. Isn't there a separation of powers? Why is the Court decided on legislative matters before they become a law? The country can be very confusing at times. And only the king is supposed to have the power to pardon convicted criminals. But this is Thailand where the legislature tries to retroactively change the laws and pardon fugitives, and the court tries to stop them from doing so. Not only confusing but dangerous. outrageous! elected officials trying to change laws? unbelievable! bring in the appointed elite immediately and stop this democratic nonsense!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waza Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I am confused. Isn't there a separation of powers? Why is the Court decided on legislative matters before they become a law? The country can be very confusing at times. And only the king is supposed to have the power to pardon convicted criminals. But this is Thailand where the legislature tries to retroactively change the laws and pardon fugitives, and the court tries to stop them from doing so. Not only confusing but dangerous. outrageous! elected officials trying to change laws? unbelievable! bring in the appointed elite immediately and stop this democratic nonsense!!! Yes elected official trying to subvert the law for the advantage of a convicted fugitive criminal, true democracy in action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me I don't support any violent protest and have as much time for the idiot yellows as I do for the idiot reds. However, remind me, how many people did the Yellows kill? How many grenades did they fire? How many armed personnel hid in their ranks? you know full well they took over the airports and nothing was done - nothing at all, no police, no army nothing so yes it was fairly peaceful from that point of view although many would argue the yellow supporters killed many in Bangkok including inside a Temple but I don't think it's helpful to go over this yet again and it is OFF TOPIC. my point was aimed at the disgraceful acts inside Parliament where the yellow MP's fought and disrupted the Speaker and barricaded outside so MP's could not work - you support this? against the elected government? you think it helps? you think the reds will go 'oh well let the yellows win'? BOTH side have to stop fighting and reconciliation is the only answer going forward. You seem to have a problem discerning what is a yellow and what is a democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I am confused. Isn't there a separation of powers? Why is the Court decided on legislative matters before they become a law? The country can be very confusing at times. And only the king is supposed to have the power to pardon convicted criminals. But this is Thailand where the legislature tries to retroactively change the laws and pardon fugitives, and the court tries to stop them from doing so. Not only confusing but dangerous. outrageous! elected officials trying to change laws? unbelievable! bring in the appointed elite immediately and stop this democratic nonsense!!! There is nothing democratic about trying to whitewash Thaksin, he's facing serious corruption charges involving his family, for example the Krisada Mahanakorn company's loans from Krung Thai Bank when Thaksin was PM. He needs all these investigations to be declared null and void. Pheua Thai are attempting to absolve Thaksin with the amnesty bill and install charter changes with no input from the Thai public. With Pheua Thai MPs behaving like this, it's no use to stand up politely and gently ask the House speaker if the Opposition can make a point, it's an emergency and outrage is the appropiate response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The government "needs the Top Court on it's side"? do I hear the sound of pastry boxes being packed? Normally when PTP and the Red factor want something they use different tactics. Violent protest, arson, assault, threats etc. Maybe the presence of a woman is calming and they can go back to peacefully telephoning the top judges and threatening them. but this time it was Yellows (again) using 'violent protest' etc.? so that's ok? some people's naive view amazes me I don't support any violent protest and have as much time for the idiot yellows as I do for the idiot reds. However, remind me, how many people did the Yellows kill? How many grenades did they fire? How many armed personnel hid in their ranks? you know full well they took over the airports and nothing was done - nothing at all, no police, no army nothing so yes it was fairly peaceful from that point of view although many would argue the yellow supporters killed many in Bangkok including inside a Temple but I don't think it's helpful to go over this yet again and it is OFF TOPIC. my point was aimed at the disgraceful acts inside Parliament where the yellow MP's fought and disrupted the Speaker and barricaded outside so MP's could not work - you support this? against the elected government? you think it helps? you think the reds will go 'oh well let the yellows win'? BOTH side have to stop fighting and reconciliation is the only answer going forward. I guess you also forgot the Somchai (Thaksin's brother in law) government calling in the police and seeing protester killed and maimed by have tear gas cannisters fired directly at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 There's too much pointless arguing on this thread, the bottom line is that TiT, there is always a soldier one step away from the political process. So argue pure law and semantics till your hearts content, ultimately, the Generals will decide if TS is coming back or not. I think not, and I think he knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 http://notthenation.com/2012/05/criminal-court-unable-to-choose-between-cowardly-options-in-lese-majeste-case/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 There's too much pointless arguing on this thread, the bottom line is that TiT, there is always a soldier one step away from the political process. So argue pure law and semantics till your hearts content, ultimately, the Generals will decide if TS is coming back or not. I think not, and I think he knows it. Well known that Thaksin could also buy some Generals.....he just need to invest more into this....removing the defense minister and putting someone who influence the reshuffle is also a step in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 There's too much pointless arguing on this thread How much pointless arguing is enough? For that matter, how much is too little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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