From Village Girl To .........

[pattayadingo]

Why does a girl move to Pattaya to work in a laundry?

Think about that!

Many ladies come to Pattaya to earn big money. They can earn a lot more here in Pattaya than they can back up in Issan. Where do you think the waitresses, shop girls, laundry ladies come from? Not all come to get involved in the P2P industry. My wife was ill and at her wits end when she came to Pattaya at the invitation her cousins. She worked with them in a very respectable bar/restaurant, rooming house and with tips was earning over 10K per month. She was able to send home more to her father who cared for her two children than she earned in Buriram.

At the moment my wife's daughter, husband and small child are staying with us. Their crops have been planted in the fields in Petchabun and most days they would have sat around watching them grow as there was no alternative work that they could find. Now she works as a waitress and is pulling 10K plus per month and her husband is delivering 50kg bags of rice and earning 9k with the occasional tip. Eventually they will have enough banked to complete the building of their little dream house and return home. Meanwhile the family will help out at harvest time so that the couple can continue to gather in their golden harvest.

Look around and I think that you will find that there are more ladies making their way through life without selling themselves than scraggy tarts working in bars and gogos.

Great post. A lot of truth and reality in that too, especially the extra money they can earn here, even in restaurants. Money that helps parents and helps their children through school.

[pattayadingo]

I think its a chronic shame that this young lady could not even work out the situation for herself.

Follows like sheep, subjected to peer pressure... yep thats life.

One thing for sure is that she has lost out on a very good man!

You will meet your Mrs Pattayadingo, never accept second best.

As long as I do not have to marry her!!

[GuestHouse]

Her Aunt does not know what she is now doing. At one point on the phone, I mentioned her Aunt because I thought she might be staying there again and as it is close by I would have popped round. J was not happy that I might see and talk to her Aunt and give the Aunt an idea of what J is doing.

My SIL is a BG in Pattaya, everyone knows what she is doing, nobody mentions it.

Usually the villagers assume any girl going to work in BK or Pattaya is whoring, even if they aren't.

And a walk around many an Isaarn Village reveals the rewards of the trades, large modern houses paid for by foreign husbands..... You might think nobody mentions it, but rest assured it is talked about. As the OP mentions, the woman's parents "can't work" and there is the child of the drunken brother to look after.

The rewards of this business are spread through the village - why would anyone complain?!

[jamescollister]

No different then the west really, your average darker brethren see the drug dealer driving the big car, wearing a load of gold. Then sees another guy working in some crap job, what does he aspire to be. Girl s hit the street to buy dope, work is poor paid long and hard. Issan girl goes south works hard and gets little, see friends rolling in the baht for 10 minutes on their back and the chance at a farang husband who will put and end to it all and she can live happy ever after.

Always thought when I worked I was no different then a hooker, I was just getting screwed for 8 hours a day. Jim

[pattayadingo]

I think its a chronic shame that this young lady could not even work out the situation for herself.

Follows like sheep, subjected to peer pressure... yep thats life.

This woman worked out her situation very well. Don't fall into the trap "they are all vicitims". Western thinking.

There are dozens of Thai cities where you can work in a laundry for 10K or slightly less. But she chose Pattaya, because she knows very well about her options of extra income, which may not be that good in other Thai cities.

But many like to go where they have family and her Aunt having a salon here and a job offer was, I think, and incentive to change jobs. Less hours, more money and family.

[pattayadingo]

The OP does not tell us how old the woman was - Let me make a guess at 25 and then make the observation that 25 years of being raised and living life as a good woman does not go down the pan in two months.

I say the OP has had a narrow escape.

Did I not mention mid 30's? 36 as I recall. Her friend in the same bar and from the same village is 42 and she does look 'rough'.

[Geekfreaklover]

Most bargirls are migrant workers the tuk-tuk drivers on the islands. Economic migrants, scam artists. My thoughts are that the OP's J being in her thirties had prior bar pedagree. Maybe she just worked in the laundry during the day. She was obviously prepared to take the OP to the cleaners.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Geekfreaklover

[pattayadingo]

Sad? I guess so.

Did the bar work change her? maybe.

Can you do anything? Probably not.

Was this post from me helpful? Hard to say.

I suppose he could have looked after her when he had the chance. And then, once she had screwed up the courage and reached the point of desperation to ask him outright, he could still have looked after her. But 10,000 baht a month was more important to him.

I reckon if I stopped sending my wife money every month, she'd be in pretty dire straits, but I don't begrudge it. I see it as my role in life to go out and wrestle mammoths or fill in pointless forms or whatever it is that I do for a living, to feed the clanspeople back home

SC

EDIT: I suppose there's

I refuse to be held to ransom.

There is a difference between a relationship with any woman and helping out than demands being made.

I've been in the village with family ( not her and hers ) on a couple of occasions and helping out. That seems a natural course to take when living with someone, not being told I have to pay.

[ttthailand]

Knew this sweet girl once who I supported. She was very quite for a week and when asked what was wrong she told me that her friend (BG) was getting 50k baht spending a month a 25 K apartment and 1million baht from a man who she just met a few months ago. The man was 40 year older and looked it ....To make a long story short my little sweet girl is now working bar selling her goods and looking for a sucker....they can be lead into this trap but the greed is already inside them... I pity her as she will now be known her entire life as a prostitute ...Village people and farang will always look down on her ....

[theblether]

There are plenty of women working in regular jobs in Pattaya that would never dream of lying on their back for money.

There is no price on self respect.....and a high price for losing it.

[h90]

I think its a chronic shame that this young lady could not even work out the situation for herself.

Follows like sheep, subjected to peer pressure... yep thats life.

This woman worked out her situation very well. Don't fall into the trap "they are all vicitims". Western thinking.

There are dozens of Thai cities where you can work in a laundry for 10K or slightly less. But she chose Pattaya, because she knows very well about her options of extra income, which may not be that good in other Thai cities.

home maids are almost impossible to find at almost any money......

[BigJohnnyBKK]

home maids are almost impossible to find at almost any money......

Do you mean in Pattaya specifically?

As long as you're happy to pay B5,000 a week I'm sure it's not a problem, will get you a very nice young hottie dressed in a traditional French maid's costume in commando mode.

She might get confused if you don't take her up on the included extras though.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

There are plenty of women working in regular jobs in Pattaya that would never dream of lying on their back for money.

There is no price on self respect.....and a high price for losing it.

And there are plenty of sex workers with very high self-respect as well, not all are ashamed of the completely valid choices they've made.

Some are even smart enough to benefit from them long-term. . .

[cdnvic]

Sounds like you got off lucky.

[brewsterbudgen]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone with experience of Pattaya is surprised (or bothered) by any girl that decides to try and improve her income by working in a bar. And it's rather naive to assume that because she's turned to bar work it automatically makes her a "bad" girl.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone with experience of Pattaya is surprised (or bothered) by any girl that decides to try and improve her income by working in a bar. And it's rather naive to assume that because she's turned to bar work it automatically makes her a "bad" girl.

Some people use the euphemisms "bar girl" or "bad girl" for sex workers, and "nice girl" or "normal girl" for those that aren't.

Much more useful IMO to use more specific terms for what you mean, and also to remove the implication of immorality from such choices.

If you think someone is "bad" in a moral sense (perhaps similar to "evil" but just less strong) for engaging in sex work, then state so explicitly rather than using namby-pamby and potentially confusing terminology.

So, with all that out of the way, what do you think is the percentage of attractive young girls employed by businesses that sell alcohol that are not available for sex on an explicit p4p basis?

I think it's rather small, especially in Pattaya, the price is usually just a bit higher for those that are just waitresses or cashiers. Perhaps a lot higher if you happen to be the first to succeed in persuading them.

Outside of Pattaya and outside of the bar business, the same applies, just lower percentages and higher prices.

And the same again once you get home and try the same kind of approach, you just need to be careful to only explore the issue with people and in ways that don't get you slapped or even arrested.

Edited June 17, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[BigJohnnyBKK]

To the OP.

While working in the laundry she was still waiting for her prince. She obviously thought you were it, and as far as she was concerned she was making a sincere proposition and was rightfully angry to be spurned.

If you'd been willing to promise her a spending allowance of USD $300 per month, rather than letting your cultural programming and ego-pride get in the way, she may have made a wonderful SO for you, and true love may well have been the result.

Of course the fact that you in effect forced her out into the explicit sex trade reduced the odds of such a happy ending, if you'd made the offer beforehand she may well have been spared the attitude that led her to proposition you in such blatantly transactional terms. However that doesn't mean she didn't truly love you, and if you both put in the necessary emotional/spiritual/psychological work over time, you may perhaps have lived happily ever after.

Or maybe she was going to just try to scam you for every penny and then leave you for dead. And even the worst possible outcome may have been an enjoyable experience if you played it smart and kept your wits about you.

You'll never know now will you?

I think the key takeaway from this is - strike while the iron is hot, when you see one that rings your bell grab for the brass ring as quickly as possible, if you wait things only go downhill from there.

But be just as ready to cut your losses if you see things aren't going your way and you aren't getting good results from the relationship v/v what you're putting into it.

[edwinclapham]

"If you'd been willing to promise her a spending allowance of USD $300 per month, rather than letting your cultural programming and ego-pride get in the way, she may have made a wonderful SO for you, and true love may well have been the result."

Seriously BJ.. all these monetary allowances etc is seriously indicative of a ..

Edited June 17, 2012 by edwinclapham

[geriatrickid]

Nothing has changed the 'good woman'. She was always like that, you just didn't realize.

I do not think it was the 2 months working in a bar that changed the woman, it just brought out what was contolled/hidden or unseen by you.

I doubt that she was like this before hand. Having met some of her family they seemed decent hard working people. I feel I got to know her quite well. She had manners. I feel that her situation changed her and her beliefs have been altered by contact with others.

It is a gut feeling she really wanted out of the bar and when I refused what she was told she could financially get from a farang, she was shocked and surprised when I said no.

But, each to their own train of thought.

I agree with you. Some descend quicker into the abysss of he11 that the "entertainment" business is. I am not much of a drinker, but have visited the same places over the years and watched the transformation of the new hires. I think the biggest shock I ever had was a couple months ago when I saw a guy I had known for a year go for a quickie with a customer. This was someone who never ever would go with a customer, which is why I was so shocked. I didn't even think he did that. My long tine aquaintance at the bar said, don't be so surprised, his family was poor and they needed money. It was all about the money and if the price was right she'd do it too. (This woman is supposedly in an LTR, although her boyfriend works offshore.) My magical balloon of hope that used to keep me aloft with the notion that not everyone that worked in a bar was a whore was popped. I haven't been able to talk to this guy since, although he spotted me in Jungceylon and held out his hand and the best I could do was give a fake smile and say, ahh nice to see you, sorry I have to get to Big C. I haven't been back to the bar because I can't sit in front of someone that would say she'd cheat on her b/f if the money was right. (I suppose I should mention that she did say if she was married and had kids it would be different. Yea, right.) Maybe it's an open relationship, I don't know. Fact is, Thailand has such screwed up morals, one doesn't know if there is a sense of right and wrong to be found anywhere.

People talk about integrating and fitting in. Well sorry, in Patong that means adopting gutter morals. Maybe it's different up country or in Cha Am, I don't know. I only know Sodom and Gomorrah.

[DP25]

She's working in Pattaya, she could have chosen a lot of other places to work in a laundromat. She went there for a reason, even if she was too shy to work in a bar at first she was hoping for a sponsor the whole time. She also knows you are in Pattaya, so assumes you are sleeping with prostitutes and are ok with paying for a girlfriend. She's there because she wants money, she expects that all foreigners in Pattaya will pay money for a girlfriend, so is upset when you don't pay out. You're looking in the wrong place if you don't want a girlfriend you have to pay a salary to, not likely to find it there.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

"If you'd been willing to promise her a spending allowance of USD $300 per month, rather than letting your cultural programming and ego-pride get in the way, she may have made a wonderful SO for you, and true love may well have been the result."

Seriously BJ.. all this monetary allowances is seriously indicative of a <picture of a meat processing plant>

No idea what you mean other than guesses implied by the below. I find words to be more precise than visuals for accurate and meaningful discussion of issues on their merits.

1. Are you postulating that giving a regular allowance to a dependent is equivalent to explicit prostitution?

2. And do you think sex work is "wrong" in a moral sense, you just wouldn't want to associate with sex workers?

3. Or do you think that having such a relationship makes it impossible (rather than simply less likely) to have a "real" relationship?

------------

Statement #1 I'm not really going to bother arguing, since for me #2 and #3 are false, and therefore #1 becomes an argument over insignificant (to me) semantics.

Obviously these are matters of personal choice. However for those who haven't given more tolerant attitudes a chance, I find it sad that they have allowed chances for happiness to pass them by.

For some people don't get many, she might just have been a truly wonderful person and his perfect life mate. And if not he may well have had a lot of fun and learning experiences in the process of finding out.

I think some like geriatrickid above may not be able to break out of the culturally programmed vision of "right and wrong".

Up to y'all of course, just trying to do my bit for those with a more open mind.

Edited June 17, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[edwinclapham]

@BJB

1. Are you postulating that giving a regular allowance to a dependent is equivalent to explicit prostitution?

2. And do you think sex work is "wrong" in a moral sense, you just wouldn't want to associate with sex workers?

3. Or do you think that having such a relationship makes it impossible (rather than simply less likely) to have a "real" relationship?

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Edited June 17, 2012 by edwinclapham

[pattayadingo]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone with experience of Pattaya is surprised (or bothered) by any girl that decides to try and improve her income by working in a bar. And it's rather naive to assume that because she's turned to bar work it automatically makes her a "bad" girl.

I'm not surprised. Saddened is a better word.

Yes, I know it happens all the time in Pattaya and other similar places to other women. To me, to have known her before and to hear her now, is sad because it is more personal. I do not like to see someone who could have been a good friend - or maybe more - be sucked into this sort of life.

[Radar501]

Her Aunt does not know what she is now doing. At one point on the phone, I mentioned her Aunt because I thought she might be staying there again and as it is close by I would have popped round. J was not happy that I might see and talk to her Aunt and give the Aunt an idea of what J is doing.

My SIL is a BG in Pattaya, everyone knows what she is doing, nobody mentions it.

Usually the villagers assume any girl going to work in BK or Pattaya is whoring, even if they aren't.

Last year in Phuket, I bumped into two sisters who I had met 2 years earlier at a bar. They were both still working at the same bar.

In conversation, I asked them what their family thought about them working as bar girls, and they replied that they had lied to the family that they had been working at factory in BKK all that time. I asked them if the family actually believed their story, and they said they didn't know.

I am sure the family and the whole village knew the truth, but it was like a taboo subject. Speak No Evil, Hear No Evil.

[ebmzlm]

Should have bought her a laundry shop.

[Pseudolus]

Nothing has changed the 'good woman'. She was always like that, you just didn't realize.

Nail on the head.

OP I assume you did not meet her in the laundry? Where? Online? Ever see her working in the Laundry?

"I met a girl in Pattaya" gave this away from the start lol.

[Rsquared]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone with experience of Pattaya is surprised (or bothered) by any girl that decides to try and improve her income by working in a bar. And it's rather naive to assume that because she's turned to bar work it automatically makes her a "bad" girl.

I'm not surprised. Saddened is a better word.

Yes, I know it happens all the time in Pattaya and other similar places to other women. To me, to have known her before and to hear her now, is sad because it is more personal. I do not like to see someone who could have been a good friend - or maybe more - be sucked into this sort of life.

Yes PD, I also feel saddened for you.

You were the one to see her in the flesh, and witness the change. Other posters, not all, seem to tar all the girls with one brush including your J.

Admittedly you could pigeon-hole many of the girls, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

Good luck in your future quests for a meaningful relationship.

Have Fun on the way! Cheers.

[h90]

home maids are almost impossible to find at almost any money......

Do you mean in Pattaya specifically?

As long as you're happy to pay B5,000 a week I'm sure it's not a problem, will get you a very nice young hottie dressed in a traditional French maid's costume in commando mode.

She might get confused if you don't take her up on the included extras though.

No I meant Bangkok....OK you are right for 20 K a month you get them....But would that hottie clean 8 hours a day, window, dishes, toilette?

[pattayadingo]

To the OP.

While working in the laundry she was still waiting for her prince. She obviously thought you were it, and as far as she was concerned she was making a sincere proposition and was rightfully angry to be spurned.

If you'd been willing to promise her a spending allowance of USD $300 per month, rather than letting your cultural programming and ego-pride get in the way, she may have made a wonderful SO for you, and true love may well have been the result.

Of course the fact that you in effect forced her out into the explicit sex trade reduced the odds of such a happy ending, if you'd made the offer beforehand she may well have been spared the attitude that led her to proposition you in such blatantly transactional terms. However that doesn't mean she didn't truly love you, and if you both put in the necessary emotional/spiritual/psychological work over time, you may perhaps have lived happily ever after.

Or maybe she was going to just try to scam you for every penny and then leave you for dead. And even the worst possible outcome may have been an enjoyable experience if you played it smart and kept your wits about you.

You'll never know now will you?

I think the key takeaway from this is - strike while the iron is hot, when you see one that rings your bell grab for the brass ring as quickly as possible, if you wait things only go downhill from there.

But be just as ready to cut your losses if you see things aren't going your way and you aren't getting good results from the relationship v/v what you're putting into it.

While working in the laundry she may well have been looking for or hoping to meet someone. I got the initial impression that she was wanting to take care of her parents and her family and happily working in the laundry to do so.

Peace rates at the factories made it very hard and tiring work.

i do not see how I spurned her when she went home to look after her mother who is in her late 60's and then I returned to the UK to get a new visa. More a turn of events that happened.

I did not force anyone into the sex trade and fail to see how you can come to that conclusion. She went to work in the bar because the laundry had closed while she was at home taking care of her mother. Secondly it was at the behest of her friend that J went to work in the bar.

Finances.

It was only after she'd been working in the bar that these 'demands' for money each month started.

As I have said previously in this topic and in other topics too, i have always been willing to contribute financially, but i also believe that people should also help themselves - i.e. go out to work, not sit there all day and be a leech.

Currently I am in two minds as to her reasons for the requests. Yes I have turned them down and no, I will maybe never know if I have missed out on a potentially good woman. Only the future can decide on that

[pattayadingo]

Nothing has changed the 'good woman'. She was always like that, you just didn't realize.

I do not think it was the 2 months working in a bar that changed the woman, it just brought out what was contolled/hidden or unseen by you.

I doubt that she was like this before hand. Having met some of her family they seemed decent hard working people. I feel I got to know her quite well. She had manners. I feel that her situation changed her and her beliefs have been altered by contact with others.

It is a gut feeling she really wanted out of the bar and when I refused what she was told she could financially get from a farang, she was shocked and surprised when I said no.

But, each to their own train of thought.

I agree with you. Some descend quicker into the abysss of he11 that the "entertainment" business is. I am not much of a drinker, but have visited the same places over the years and watched the transformation of the new hires. I think the biggest shock I ever had was a couple months ago when I saw a guy I had known for a year go for a quickie with a customer. This was someone who never ever would go with a customer, which is why I was so shocked. I didn't even think he did that. My long tine aquaintance at the bar said, don't be so surprised, his family was poor and they needed money. It was all about the money and if the price was right she'd do it too. (This woman is supposedly in an LTR, although her boyfriend works offshore.) My magical balloon of hope that used to keep me aloft with the notion that not everyone that worked in a bar was a whore was popped. I haven't been able to talk to this guy since, although he spotted me in Jungceylon and held out his hand and the best I could do was give a fake smile and say, ahh nice to see you, sorry I have to get to Big C. I haven't been back to the bar because I can't sit in front of someone that would say she'd cheat on her b/f if the money was right. (I suppose I should mention that she did say if she was married and had kids it would be different. Yea, right.) Maybe it's an open relationship, I don't know. Fact is, Thailand has such screwed up morals, one doesn't know if there is a sense of right and wrong to be found anywhere.

People talk about integrating and fitting in. Well sorry, in Patong that means adopting gutter morals. Maybe it's different up country or in Cha Am, I don't know. I only know Sodom and Gomorrah.

I have seen similar things too. Yet only the other night in one of my local bars is a lady who is in her 40's and she works serving drinks. She earns 3000 a month + tips and food ( the boss told me that is what she pays the women in her bar).

I asked if she has a boyfriend and she says she has, He is from Sweden. She is happy to be friendly with the customers and to have a laugh and a joke with us regulars too. The one thing she refuses to do is go with any of them for sex and I've seen her turn many offers down. She has drawn a line of how far she will go with the customers and refuses to go beyond it.

That tells me there are some women with good morals and what we might call a good old fashioned sense of duty.

On the other hand there was the woman who was happy to be in my bed several times before she flew off to Germany to be with her LTR.

So many different aspects of life here and I still prefer the attitude of the men and women in village life that I had before coming to Pattaya. Yet even some of those are obviously tainted.

Life here can be 'entertaining'.