From Village Girl To .........

[impulse]

Of course the fact that you in effect forced her out into the explicit sex trade reduced the odds of such a happy ending,

I did not force anyone into the sex trade and fail to see how you can come to that conclusion.

Gotta agree with the OP.

By BigJohhnyBKK's reasoning, I am responsible for the life trajectory of every women I've ever dated and not decided to marry.

Hogwash.

And there are lots of them- not because I'm popular, good looking or rich- but because I'm old and still single (again) and I've been around a loooong time.

Not a single one of them has ended up a prostitute, and even if any had, it certainly wasn't me that drove them to it.

Edited June 17, 2012 by impulse

[edwinclapham]

There are many relationships in and outside of TV that are based on mutual respect, love and non monetary gains.

The very idea of paying along with numerous other contestants to keep my woman in the fashion that she envisages is right for her would be abhorent to me.

Further down the track, with this mindset, I can envisage her selling me our own child to gain custody!

You are encouraging the tricks of the trade like sick Buffs, ICU scams, motor bike accidents etc.

Most of all you are insulting your own intelligence by giving in to them.

Now if a young lady seriously wanted to better herself and required further education, I would seriously consider helping out financially, for her own self respect. Hopefully this would ensure we had a relationship of an equal standard which is is what having a healthy relationship is all about.

I

[pattayadingo]

She's working in Pattaya, she could have chosen a lot of other places to work in a laundromat. She went there for a reason, even if she was too shy to work in a bar at first she was hoping for a sponsor the whole time. She also knows you are in Pattaya, so assumes you are sleeping with prostitutes and are ok with paying for a girlfriend. She's there because she wants money, she expects that all foreigners in Pattaya will pay money for a girlfriend, so is upset when you don't pay out. You're looking in the wrong place if you don't want a girlfriend you have to pay a salary to, not likely to find it there.

I agree with 90% of what you say.

I do not expect to find a g/f in Pattaya and am not really looking for one here to be honest. And after chatting to a lot of the women here in Pattaya most do have stories. A few honest ones say they like what they do.

The flip side of the coin is that a whole lot of women will also not entertain a man who lives in Pattaya because they believe we are only here for sex.

I came to Pattaya for a change of scene. Yes, I like village life or small town life but I also love to party, have good English conversation and less difficulties with the language, that is why I am here.

In many ways I do like Pattaya and do defend it against many of the one line bashers of Pattaya, but now I'm once again looking for a quieter life elsewhere away from the 'madness' that can be Pattaya, though I will be back again at some point.

[pattayadingo]

@BJB

1. Are you postulating that giving a regular allowance to a dependent is equivalent to explicit prostitution?

2. And do you think sex work is "wrong" in a moral sense, you just wouldn't want to associate with sex workers?

3. Or do you think that having such a relationship makes it impossible (rather than simply less likely) to have a "real" relationship?

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Exactly. What did happen to love, excitement and butterflies in the making of a relationship. The wonderful desire of wanting to see someone every day, to hold their hand, to wake up on a morning with the urgent need to see them, to kiss and cuddle them.

If you are living together, to wake on a morning and gaze at their face as they sleep and for that to make you happy and buzz inside. Is that a romantic notion? Maybe it is but I'd rather stay a romantic at heart and wait, have the excitement of the chase and maybe find another woman like that, as I have had before in Thailand.

With regards to dependency I'd rather it be a mutual thing and have her go out to work - as i have said before - and then work out what is needed financially. Not simply to pay up and have a 'paid g/f'. It will never be a 50/50 relationship with regards to money but it should not be foreigners 100% paying.

[pattayadingo]

Of course the fact that you in effect forced her out into the explicit sex trade reduced the odds of such a happy ending,

I did not force anyone into the sex trade and fail to see how you can come to that conclusion.

Gotta agree with the OP.

By BigJohhnyBKK's reasoning, I am responsible for the life trajectory of every women I've ever dated and not decided to marry.

Hogwash.

And there are lots of them- not because I'm popular, good looking or rich- but because I'm old and still single (again) and I've been around a loooong time.

Not a single one of them has ended up a prostitute, and even if any had, it certainly wasn't me that drove them to it.

Good post. I like and agree with your sentiments.

[pattayadingo]

Should have bought her a laundry shop.

Sorry, I have to laugh at that and hope I took it in the jest it was written with

[robblok]

There are many relationships in and outside of TV that are based on mutual respect, love and non monetary gains.

The very idea of paying along with numerous other contestants to keep my woman in the fashion that she envisages is right for her would be abhorent to me.

Further down the track, with this mindset, I can envisage her selling me our own child to gain custody!

You are encouraging the tricks of the trade like sick Buffs, ICU scams, motor bike accidents etc.

Most of all you are insulting your own intelligence by giving in to them.

Now if a young lady seriously wanted to better herself and required further education, I would seriously consider helping out financially, for her own self respect. Hopefully this would ensure we had a relationship of an equal standard which is is what having a healthy relationship is all about.

I

Good point.. this is how i see a good relation. Many guys rather pay and keep power over the girl. Its the only way to keep them.

[pattayadingo]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone with experience of Pattaya is surprised (or bothered) by any girl that decides to try and improve her income by working in a bar. And it's rather naive to assume that because she's turned to bar work it automatically makes her a "bad" girl.

I'm not surprised. Saddened is a better word.

Yes, I know it happens all the time in Pattaya and other similar places to other women. To me, to have known her before and to hear her now, is sad because it is more personal. I do not like to see someone who could have been a good friend - or maybe more - be sucked into this sort of life.

Yes PD, I also feel saddened for you.

You were the one to see her in the flesh, and witness the change. Other posters, not all, seem to tar all the girls with one brush including your J.

Admittedly you could pigeon-hole many of the girls, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

Good luck in your future quests for a meaningful relationship.

Have Fun on the way! Cheers.

Cheers for that

And I do hope to have more fun along the way and hope others do too.

Part of the reason for posting is the change in her that I have seen. I certainly did not expect such a quick change. Also if this topic gives others some insight into part of the life here and what can happen I feel that cannot be a bad thing. Too often we go to a bar and see the women working there and automatically label them without considering WHY they are there and I feel that is a sad indictment on society as we see it in places like Pattaya and similar places.

Roll on the future

[TommoPhysicist]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Tradition in Thailand is that you effectively buy your wife (no matter what her social background or educational level).

As my wife said to me (after about 6 months) "No woman in Thailand marries a man because she loves him, she marries a man she (or her parents) think can provide for her and her children, if later she learns to love him, that's a bonus (but not important)."

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[robblok]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Tradition in Thailand is that you effectively buy your wife (no matter what her social background or educational level).

As my wife said to me (after about 6 months) "No woman in Thailand marries a man because she loves him, she marries a man she (or her parents) thinks can provide for her and her children, if later she learns to love him, that's a bonus (but not important)."

Do you need more rope ?

[edwinclapham]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Tradition in Thailand is that you effectively buy your wife (no matter what her social background or educational level).

As my wife said to me (after about 6 months) "No woman in Thailand marries a man because she loves him, she marries a man she (or her parents) thinks can provide for her and her children, if later she learns to love him, that's a bonus (but not important)."

Rubbish! I was practically brought up in Thailand and been privy to many an equal relationship!

Its time you changed hymn sheets Tommo because this is exactly the type of "chinese whispers" that go around to snare the unsuspecting foreigner time over time.

[TommoPhysicist]

Do you need more rope ?

Marriage for love is a pile of steaming manure that Hollywood forces down everyones throat.

Some young guys are actually daft enough to swallow it, but as they grow older they will learn to vomit it back up.

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[robblok]

Do you need more rope ?

Marriage for love is a pile of steaming manure that Hollywood forces down everyones throat.

Some young guys are actually daft enough to swallow it, but as they grow older they will learn to vomit it back up.

You mean that once you get older you learn that if you pay you can get things you want, then you try to rationalize buying companionship and attack everyone who burst your bubble.

[TommoPhysicist]

Do you need more rope ?

Marriage for love is a pile of steaming manure that Hollywood forces down everyones throat.

Some young guys are actually daft enough to swallow it, but as they grow older they will learn to vomit it back up.

You mean that once you get older you learn that if you pay you can get things you want, then you try to rationalize buying companionship and attack everyone who burst your bubble.

The one I didn't pay for (in the UK) was the biggest financial and personal mistake in my life.

The one I did pay for (in Thailand), was my best move ever, great company, and has provided me with very nice children and a good home.

Edited June 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[robblok]

Do you need more rope ?

Marriage for love is a pile of steaming manure that Hollywood forces down everyones throat.

Some young guys are actually daft enough to swallow it, but as they grow older they will learn to vomit it back up.

You mean that once you get older you learn that if you pay you can get things you want, then you try to rationalize buying companionship and attack everyone who burst your bubble.

The one I didn't pay for (in the UK) was the biggest financial and personal mistake in my life.

The one I did pay for (in Thailand), was my best move ever, great company, and has provided me with very nice children and a good home.

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

[TommoPhysicist]

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

Funny how Thailand accumulates so many losers whose money can run out.

Thailand isn't the sort of country where those foreigners who aren't fully financed should be living.

[robblok]

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

Funny how Thailand accumulates so many losers whose money can run out.

Thailand isn't the sort of country where those foreigners who aren't fully financed should be living.

Ok so its clear to you she stays with you for the money. No problem there, you know it your ok with it. You rented her you know your only redeeming asset is your money. I have no problem with that its your choice.

Money always can run out and people always can get sick. Has nothing to do with being a looser. Its a fact of life.

[edwinclapham]

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

Funny how Thailand accumulates so many losers whose money can run out.

Thailand isn't the sort of country where those foreigners who aren't fully financed should be living.

Meaning that you are so seriously wedged up that you have covered your big arse for any eventuality! Come on Tommo you are talkiing a load of crap!

[edwinclapham]

Money always can run out and people always can get sick. Has nothing to do with being a looser. Its a fact of life.

How can annuities, final salary pensions and trust funds run out?

(I have some of each)

Its strange at what lengths some people go to to establish their wealth to their forum!

[brit1984]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Tradition in Thailand is that you effectively buy your wife (no matter what her social background or educational level).

As my wife said to me (after about 6 months) "No woman in Thailand marries a man because she loves him, she marries a man she (or her parents) think can provide for her and her children, if later she learns to love him, that's a bonus (but not important)."

Sorry if this news upsets anyone but most Thai girls marry for love, not money.

[TommoPhysicist]

Its strange at what lengths some people go to to establish their wealth to their forum!

It's funny that youngsters don't realise the funding that most 'boomers' have in place.

If I were wealthy I would be in Mauritius, I talking stable income streams guaranteed for life.

[cdnvic]

Ok, lets get back on topic please, and drop these personal arguments.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship. I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Yes of course purely your choice. I was of course talking about his willingness to allow the financial transactional aspect, IMO just a "cover story" she desired to save face, to become the basis for starting on what might develop into a real relationship.

WRT that word, note that I have a very intimate relationship with my infant son, the lady who cares for him and even with his mother, they just don't involve sex of course, and only the second one involves money.

I also have a relationship with my landlords, the guy that takes my rubbish to the curbside pickup down the road, with my co-workers at my jobs and customers, the owner of the local 7-11, these are mostly transactional relationships, with more or less minor social elements as well, but no intimacy.

With the friends I go out to eat and play pool with, those I trade meet to discuss and trade books, those I work on my sobriety with in AA meetings, those with whom I discuss issues with in various fora online, with my extended families and ex's scattered all over the world, some of all the above who come visit me here, all different levels of intimacy, but no money.

All of these are relationships.

Then I have sexual relationships, mostly not involving explicit cash exchange but usually transactional nonetheless - that's my preference to start off at that level just as with the second group above.

Some of these evolve into more intimate relationships on an emotional level, and some very occasionally involve what I call true love, where we put in time and energy, sometimes real hard work to help each other evolve as full human beings, not necessarily what the other wants but what we see they need, sometimes even put the others' needs above our own.

This other commonly-referred-to-as-love is IMO mostly a subliminal biological-evolution-driven phenomenon triggered by hormones, pheromones, dopamine brain chemicals etc. As pleasant a drug as it might be, I have found in my experience using this phenomenon of "romance" a very poor basis for selecting mates for long-term significant "real" relationships (as you use the term) as propagandized by western media-inspired culture.

When I am wealthy again, perhaps I will be able to afford to trust it as a part of such decision-making, IMO it's a luxury only the rich can afford.

But I do admit I enjoy it's fleeting pleasures when it graces me with its presence, as in fact happened yesterday with a young Korean lass. We chatted for a couple of hours and agreed to meet again soon, but I doubt if much will come of it other than some pleasant fantasies on my part, and perhaps some business leads, but to allow the sexual attraction component of such an experience to develop further would most likely not be in my interests.

[2unique]

As far as I understood it, there was no relationship ( they may have had the makings of one), therefore why would money have to be discussed even? This young lady is not a dependent at all! that is entirely another matter!

What on earth has happened to "love" "excitement" "Butterflies" all the wonders of a making of a relationship.

I just dont buy into this third world poverty angle at all.

Of course sex workers have a place in this world, but I wouldnt recommend having a relationship with a SW. Purely my choice.

Tradition in Thailand is that you effectively buy your wife (no matter what her social background or educational level).

As my wife said to me (after about 6 months) "No woman in Thailand marries a man because she loves him, she marries a man she (or her parents) think can provide for her and her children, if later she learns to love him, that's a bonus (but not important)."

Sorry if this news upsets anyone but most Thai girls marry for love, not money.

bit simplistic - start a new topic, would like to drill down into what love in this instance constitutes. Love of money? Of him? of the security he provides or just plain old fashioned love...

as regards Laundry bird, it is conceivable that she changed in a short while but its more likely that this is who she always was and just learnt how to express it better if not correctly.

in my limited experience no "good" girl becomes a foul mouthed tramp with a sense of entitlement overnight. She was taught what was hers, she already believed it was hers and she decided the short "con" rather than the long game was the way to get it.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Sorry if this news upsets anyone but most Thai girls marry for love, not money.

I was going to 100% agree with this last, but on reflection I realize the truth isn't that straightforward. And of course for most Thai girls who marry older farang that isn't true at all, with the difference in age probably having a high negative correlation with the probability of your proposition.

The other qualifying factor is that since most Thai girls are dirt poor, the ones that allow themselves to marry for only love, without regard to any considerations of their future financial security would be pretty stupid wouldn't they. And I don't think most Thai girls are stupid, do you?

The degree to which a Thai girl already has some financial security in her life, IMO is generally the degree to which she'll permit the former to have more influence in her choice of mate above the latter.

However once you get up into the truly higher socio-economic circles, I suspect most girls there would not be willing to lose face and marry a totally skint guy, and if he's a farang even more so.

So perhaps the safest generalization (again IMO) is:

Most Thai girls will wait until they find the best of both worlds.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

would like to drill down into what love in this instance constitutes. Love of money? Of him? of the security he provides or just plain old fashioned love...

The word "love", in addition to the two meanings I expounded on above, is also (very confusingly, but that's typical for English) is also used in a third sense of "very much liking" things and experiences rather than the context of human relationships.

I love to go to the beach. I love my cat. I love ice cream. I love money.

Of course these have nothing to do with the meanings previously discussed wrt human relationships.

People who base their choice of mate on purely financial considerations are in effect coming on board as employees, offering their services in exchange for wages. It should be obvious by now that IMO there is nothing wrong with this.

Unless there is also deception involved, which of course is not always the case. Often the sponsor will goes along and allows him/her self to be deceived, because s/he's lazy or of low intelligence, but this doesn't reduce the moral culpability of the person perpetrating the fraud, in fact most criminal consider those con artists who prey on the weak and stupid to be nearly the lowest of the low in prison pecking order, only above the pedo's.

in my limited experience no "good" girl becomes a foul mouthed tramp with a sense of entitlement overnight. She was taught what was hers, she already believed it was hers and she decided the short "con" rather than the long game was the way to get it.

It is very very rare to find a girl in Pattaya or other farang-oriented environs, whether explicit sex workers or not, who will stay with a man without some expectation of financial reward.

Those working the long con as you put it are generally the more intelligent ones, and certainly not "good" in both our terms.

However IMO those who require a guaranteed minimum stipend per month are usually the more honest ones, and aren't working any kind of con at all.

[edwinclapham]

There are many relationships in and outside of TV that are based on mutual respect, love and non monetary gains.

The very idea of paying along with numerous other contestants to keep my woman in the fashion that she envisages is right for her would be abhorent to me.

Further down the track, with this mindset, I can envisage her selling me our own child to gain custody!

You are encouraging the tricks of the trade like sick Buffs, ICU scams, motor bike accidents etc.

Most of all you are insulting your own intelligence by giving in to them.

Now if a young lady seriously wanted to better herself and required further education, I would seriously consider helping out financially, for her own self respect. Hopefully this would ensure we had a relationship of an equal standard which is is what having a healthy relationship is all about.

I

Good point.. this is how i see a good relation. Many guys rather pay and keep power over the girl. Its the only way to keep them.

Thanks Rob! apologies I have yet again run out of "likes" .

And "power" is the way I see it in so many ways..

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Just think about it like this, once you are no longer able to pay or get sick... what happens to the ones you pay to keep you company.

Very often, but not always they'll go away as expected.

Those that don't simply show that real love can arise even in the most unlikely circumstances, and that's why I recommend intentionally arranging such a crisis if a comfortably-off farang with a beautiful Thai partner wants to test how genuine their relationship is. Of course such a test needs to be truly convincing with no hope of recovery in the short term if s/he's intelligent, which is why I also advocate (among other reasons) that the SO never be given access to your true financial details beyond what you want her to know for your own purposes.

IMO it's much better to live as if you know for a fact that in the end we are all alone and you can only rely on yourself, than to go through life thinking you can depend on other people to remain supportive for better or for worse.

Sometimes we are pleasantly surprised in a crisis - much better than having your whole emotional world collapse around you at the same time.

Edited June 17, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Good point.. this is how i see a good relation. Many guys rather pay and keep power over the girl. Its the only way to keep them.

And "power" is the way I see it in so many ways..

You're both absolutely right, my POV is very much driven by the fact that I have no desire to allow a SO to have much say in my life, it's my way or the highway and I admit in theory that may not be the healthiest stance.

Perhaps when I'm wealthy again one day I'll have a go on working on that character flaw, but for now as a fat old bald half-blind single father of young babes I don't feel I can take the risks involved, since my other major flaw in this regard is my desire for young athletic stunners.

[brit1984]

Sorry if this news upsets anyone but most Thai girls marry for love, not money.

I was going to 100% agree with this last, but on reflection I realize the truth isn't that straightforward. And of course for most Thai girls who marry older farang that isn't true at all, with the difference in age probably having a high negative correlation with the probability of your proposition.

The other qualifying factor is that since most Thai girls are dirt poor, the ones that allow themselves to marry for only love, without regard to any considerations of their future financial security would be pretty stupid wouldn't they. And I don't think most Thai girls are stupid, do you?

The degree to which a Thai girl already has some financial security in her life, IMO is generally the degree to which she'll permit the former to have more influence in her choice of mate above the latter.

However once you get up into the truly higher socio-economic circles, I suspect most girls there would not be willing to lose face and marry a totally skint guy, and if he's a farang even more so.

So perhaps the safest generalization (again IMO) is:

Most Thai girls will wait until they find the best of both worlds.

I agree, although most Thai girls do not marry (or even consider marrying) old farangs