How Can We Foreigners Mobilize To Help Protect Our Own?

[MrRealDeal]

It's simply not true that you have no rights in Thailand , You have the same right to go to court and stand up for yourself as everyone else ...... it's just that most people don't bother. I also don't feel like I am being taken advantage of trampled on whatever , I am just a non citizen who is a guest and I get the things that go along with that. What rights am I missing ? You can't vote anyplace your not a citizen ..... I have the right to file a lawsiut in a Thai court , I have the right to challenge the police in court , I have pretty much ALL the rights of a thai person , such as free speech , right to travel , right to a lawyer , ect ...... I would even get my cup of broth just like a Thai person in Jail.

I know people will say that the right to go to court is useless since you will lose , but that's not guest specific , a thai person fighting the crooked cop would lose as well. It's not really that we have no rights it's that in Thailand everyone seems to have less rights.

I would be happy to join a group if I thought their was anything worth joining over but I really don't see it.

I also often wonder who some hang around with because in my 11 years I get treated better then a Thai person 99 pct of the time not worse , people like me and treat me accordingly.

Exactly what rights do I not have that Thai people have or that I would have in the west but am not allowed here ? Because I really don't know. And I refuse to accept the nonsense argument that , you might have rights but they wont do you any good ........ because the topic is about the rights not about excersising them , and also the real problem is people VOLENTEER to be steped on by not using their rights not that they don't have them.

Btw ....... Any country that stamps your passport is agreeing to the part in the passport that says you are entitled to all "lawfull aid and protection" rendering your point moot

[jamescollister]

My former country(usa) never cared about me. I had voting right too! So much for that..

Same same Australia, went back for a few months and was told, you are a non resident and get nothing. If you have no money etc you can learn to be a urban outdoorsman [ homeless ] Jim

[transam]

OP, how many third world countries would you feel safe in. Anyone who thinks LOS is not a third world country is daft. Take a look around outside the big cities. Look at the road side food stalls EVERYWHERE with no refrigeration. Thai ''body'' constitution can deal with it, many farang constitution cannot. There is nooooooo regulation, you take your chances, BUT, the west MUST warn.

Me, been here a while, never eat from a stall. Went to Phuket once and had a huge Lobster on a beach cafe, next day in the pharmacy to deal with food poisoning, BUT, the lady laughed, lots have, she said.

Compared to the west LOS is a dangerous place in many ways, long stayers learn but the tourist knows nothing.

[RabC]

Well Paullyw, youve been given a great intro to your first posting on this forum, dont let it deter you. Your topic is a very relevant one, ive lived here for 7 years now, not an old fart yet as i was in my forties when i decided to move here. I have vested interests here as im in business in Pattaya and one of the islands south where i live. Other posters have stated we have no rights and just get on with it. Well i agree with you, example what about the 3 mil plus thais who live abroad they integrate into communities and have the rights they are entitled to, that of a citizen. Many have returned educated with wealth and fit into the so called thai elite, do they ever respect the farang such as us living here, not to my knowledge.

If you want to make changes you have to attend expat meetings, talk to others at these and see what support you can muster.

In Pattaya for wxample the mayor is on fb and because of posteres, over a two year period hae is tackling the jet ski scam, its a start, also most Embassies have discussion boards try that.

Today i sent an email to the Can Em, stating that many people would be monitoring the outcome of the tradgety of those two young girls

Best of luck to you, if you give me your email ill get back to you.

The Pattaya Mayors Facebook page is a total joke, full of platitudes to keep people like you happy or have I missed it and the Jet Ski scammers been closed down? We chose to move here and live under the Thai System, either grow up and accept it or head to Swampy. I do feel that maybe, just maybe our Embassies could do a bit more to look after their subjects interests but thats it.

[jamescollister]

OP, how many third world countries would you feel safe in. Anyone who thinks LOS is not a third world country is daft. Take a look around outside the big cities. Look at the road side food stalls EVERYWHERE with no refrigeration. Thai ''body'' constitution can deal with it, many farang constitution cannot. There is nooooooo regulation, you take your chances, BUT, the west MUST warn.

Me, been here a while, never eat from a stall. Went to Phuket once and had a huge Lobster on a beach cafe, next day in the pharmacy to deal with food poisoning, BUT, the lady laughed, lots have, she said.

Compared to the west LOS is a dangerous place in many ways, long stayers learn but the tourist knows nothing.

Transam I eat street food all the time [issan ] never been really sick. 3 times been put down and out by bad food, 7/11 twice and a supposed good restaurant, oysters, but dodgy any where. Probably have the stomach of a Soi dog, but if you live at the end of nowhere it pays. Jim

[PaullyW]

Thanks, all. I suppose I did approach this incorrectly as SC pointed out. However, I have the suspicion that no approach would have garnered significantly more positive feedback which totally makes sense.

Thailand really generally attracts certain kind of Westerners. Among a select few others, Thailand is full of all manner of ill adapted, poorly educated westerners. In the 15 years that I've been living and visiting here, I've met a very small percentage of westerners who were worth knowing. And, I travel in all kinds of circles including those involved with government finance.

I no longer plan to follow this topic as it's not helpful to anyone.

I'll take up my cause elsewhere. There are actually other Thailand-related forums where the majority of people are actually much more polite and which seem to have a higher degree of education about Thai topics. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but the nasty posts that I've gotten given the overall positive nature of the effort is just sad.

Thank you to everyone who actually contributed something useful, and sorry I did not approach this with more tact.

Paully

Edited June 17, 2012 by PaullyW

[transam]

Thanks, all. I suppose I did approach this incorrectly as SC pointed out. However, I have the suspicion that no approach would have garnered significantly more positive feedback which totally makes sense.

Thailand really generally attracts certain kind of Westerners. I'll just leave it at that.

I no longer plan to follow this topic as it's not helpful to anyone.

I'll take up my cause elsewhere. There are actually other Thailand-related forums where the majority of people are actually much more polite and which seem to have a higher degree of education about Thai topics. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but the nasty posts that I've gotten given the overall positive nature of the effort is just sad.

Thank you to everyone who actually contributed something useful, and sorry I did not approach this with more tact.

Paully

We all belong to the other forums. Sorry.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The Chinese didn't just give up. They were persecuted here for hundreds of years (some of the readers may know this). Instead of running away (ie - "if I/you don't like it here..", they effectively infiltrated the entire political and cultural system here to 'fight' for their place in the society. Nobody is going to give us anything. People have always had to fight.

You really think if a bunch of foreigners launched what essentially would be a PR campaign against Thai tourism, they would kick us all out!? I haven't been here THAT long, but I hope you are joking.

The Chinese didn't "fight", they figured out what the Thai elite wanted, too many many decades of working their way very hard and smart into the good graces of TPTB, including intermarrying (or just donating) their daughters with the nobility until they were part of the ruling elite.

They certainly didn't do it by whinging and openly organizing. Foreigners taking that approach would soon be persona non grata and one way or another would be gotten rid of.

And I honestly don't see your point about "injustice", many native Thais and certainly other "outsider" minorities are much much much more poorly treated by the ruling elite than farang, any organizing efforts should be directed to helping them, not us honkies IMO.

[PaullyW]

noob

I wonder how you know that.

Why don't you send me a PM, and I'll tell you some interesting facts about me. Don't assume things you don't know. Just ask, buddy.

[PaullyW]

The Chinese didn't just give up. They were persecuted here for hundreds of years (some of the readers may know this). Instead of running away (ie - "if I/you don't like it here..", they effectively infiltrated the entire political and cultural system here to 'fight' for their place in the society. Nobody is going to give us anything. People have always had to fight.

You really think if a bunch of foreigners launched what essentially would be a PR campaign against Thai tourism, they would kick us all out!? I haven't been here THAT long, but I hope you are joking.

The Chinese didn't "fight", they figured out what the Thai elite wanted, too many many decades of working their way very hard and smart into the good graces of TPTB, including intermarrying (or just donating) their daughters with the nobility until they were part of the ruling elite.

They certainly didn't do it by whinging and openly organizing. Foreigners taking that approach would soon be persona non grata and one way or another would be gotten rid of.

And I honestly don't see your point about "injustice", many native Thais and certainly other "outsider" minorities are much much much more poorly treated by the ruling elite than farang, any organizing efforts should be directed to helping them, not us honkies IMO.

BJBKK,

I've noticed over the years that you post ALOT. I rarely notice you conceding points to anyone else, and I rarely, if ever, notice you defer to anyone else no matter how educated other posters have appeared to be on various subjects. So, I already know that there is no arguing with you. You are quite intelligent, but you cannot always be correct my good man.

Thank you for the comment, but I totally disagree with you, and I can point you at NUMEROUS scholarly texts written about Chinese assimilation in Thailand. I've taught such matters at Thammasat U in Bangkok to business execs and students alike here.

Again, thank you. I do enjoy reading many of your posts. And, good luck with your book. Keep an open mind.

[Rooo]

Several posts of trollish nature, name calling etc & justified response to them removed.

If you can't be civil or have nothing constructive to contribute move on , concerned members have been advised.

[Rsquared]

Ok if you aren't going to follow this anymore then we can have some fun.

The OP is obviously tightly wound up. I came to this amazing country to retire with my beautiful Thai wife and relax. I am achieving both at the moment very nicely thankyou.

I fully understand that I am a welcomed guest and am happy with that. I keep my nose clean and conform to the Thai ways, even if I do not agree with them.

What the OP is suggesting would take at least a few hundred years....as mentioned before this is a third world country, it will not change that status in my lifetime, I can be assured of that.

Cheers!

[Darrel]

As someone with a retirement extension I understand that Thailand graciously allows me to remain here solely because I have money in my pocket. One day they may decide that my money is not enough to warrant me remaining here, in which case they will cease to extend my visa and will require me to leave. At which point I will return to one of the many countries in which I have right of abode, or perhaps go somewhere else where I have no such right but where my money may be worth more to the local government.

Given that there is no way around this, I am entirely prepared for it. It does surprise me that others apparently are not so prepared.

[ripstanley]

Ok if you aren't going to follow this anymore then we can have some fun.

The OP is obviously tightly wound up. I came to this amazing country to retire with my beautiful Thai wife and relax. I am achieving both at the moment very nicely thankyou.

I fully understand that I am a welcomed guest and am happy with that. I keep my nose clean and conform to the Thai ways, even if I do not agree with them.

What the OP is suggesting would take at least a few hundred years....as mentioned before this is a third world country, it will not change that status in my lifetime, I can be assured of that.

Cheers!

I agree with your comment. Since the OP has made the comment he has posted other comments.

We are visitors to this country and have to accept this fact.

[NanLaew]

Although the OP has thrown the (white?) towel in, he did admit to being emotionally upset at the demise of the two Canadian lasses. In the face of a lack of popular agreement with his shaky premise, the latter posts alluded to loads of years here, moving in better educated circles and other such bravado.

But what did he really want? A website filled with travel, legal and cultural advisories written by those with hands-on, personal experiences here? Isn't that sort of an extension of the nanny state admonitions, warnings and prohibitions that most of us chose to ignore since we are already grown up, capable of making our own decisions and fully aware that LOS will never, ever be a true home? Why does one feel charged to prevent the less savvy or diligent who haven't done their homework from making adult errors of judgement? For someone who claims to have 'lectured' at some of Thailand's more respected halls of education and moved nebulously in 'government circles', the basic premise that somehow collectively we can force economic sanctions on Thailand is indicative of someone who should work on their own basic safety net and quit worrying about others. That is in adddition to addressing the more obvious personal attribute of appearing to be stunningly clueless.

This forum, as already pointed out, does serve as the leading source of Thai- related advice and most of the pinned topics are all that needs scanning by the potential tourist, worker, retiree, criminal or sexpat. Once they have moved here, lost their job, pension, wife, started drinking heavily and lost the farm, they are free to post about their experiences for other members to have a laugh or for newbies to ignore.

Edited June 17, 2012 by NanLaew

[h90]

That is exactly the problem we have in Europe.

Immigrants come and don't want to bend to our rules, mix together and force us to something we don't want, which on the other hand leads to racism.

In Europe the aborigines are white and long nosed and disturbed by some brown intruders.

Here the aborigines are brown and some white long noses want to mess around.

I don't want that some Turkish, Africans or Arabs become equal rights in Europe. And I don't need equal rights in Thailand.

If I don't like it here I go back. If I want to be the same I get the nationality. If I don't want both of it, I close my mouth.

I don't understand why everything with so many posters here is either black or white. Wow, i find it so incredible that so many Westerners (I'm guessing most of the responses are from Westerners, though I could be completely wrong, of course) don't have interest in trying to better our lives and protect ourselves and fellow countrymen and women. It's crazy. I know there are more people out there who do care; perhaps it's just a numbers game.

Completely respect your opinion, but I do not feel the same way. I can still fully respect Thai law and culture and whatever else and still find nothing wrong with warning or making other foreigners aware of what's going on here and what kinds of things they would never know by reading hotel reviews on any travel sites for instance.

Warn about what? Thailand is not different than any other country. I think foreigner have it here much better than in many other countries. No need to go into any argument with my hosts. I was treated well the last 10 years and government left me alone, that is all I want.

[MrRealDeal]

I'm still waiting to hear about all the rights I don't have but would have if I were a non citizen someplace else ................ One's Thia people have but I don't

Edited June 17, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[Rsquared]

Although the OP has thrown the (white?) towel in, he did admit to being emotionally upset at the demise of the two Canadian lasses. In the face of a lack of popular agreement with his shaky premise, the latter posts alluded to loads of years here, moving in better educated circles and other such bravado.

But what did he really want? A website filled with travel, legal and cultural advisories written by those with hands-on, personal experiences here? Isn't that sort of an extension of the nanny state admonitions, warnings and prohibitions that most of us chose to ignore since we are already grown up, capable of making our own decisions and fully aware that LOS will never, ever be a true home? Why does one feel charged to prevent the less savvy or diligent who haven't done their homework from making adult errors of judgement? For someone who claims to have 'lectured' at some of Thailand's more respected halls of education and moved nebulously in 'government circles', the basic premise that somehow collectively we can force economic sanctions on Thailand is indicative of someone who should work on their own basic safety net and quit worrying about others. That is in adddition to addressing the more obvious personal attribute of appearing to be stunningly clueless.

This forum, as already pointed out, does serve as the leading source of Thai- related advice and most of the pinned topics are all that needs scanning by the potential tourist, worker, retiree, criminal or sexpat. Once they have moved here, lost their job, pension, wife, started drinking heavily and lost the farm, they are free to post about their experiences for other members to have a laugh or for newbies to ignore.

Wow!

Thankyou NanLaew, You have put into words what my tiny well adjusted, sometimes confused, cranium protected grey matter was thinking all along.......only it would've taken me a week of sundays to put it into print.

Agree 100%

[simple1]

Thanks, all. I suppose I did approach this incorrectly as SC pointed out. However, I have the suspicion that no approach would have garnered significantly more positive feedback which totally makes sense.

Thailand really generally attracts certain kind of Westerners. Among a select few others, Thailand is full of all manner of ill adapted, poorly educated westerners. In the 15 years that I've been living and visiting here, I've met a very small percentage of westerners who were worth knowing. And, I travel in all kinds of circles including those involved with government finance.

I no longer plan to follow this topic as it's not helpful to anyone.

I'll take up my cause elsewhere. There are actually other Thailand-related forums where the majority of people are actually much more polite and which seem to have a higher degree of education about Thai topics. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but the nasty posts that I've gotten given the overall positive nature of the effort is just sad.

Thank you to everyone who actually contributed something useful, and sorry I did not approach this with more tact.

Paully

You've completely blown it now with your childish dummy spit. What hope will you have of garnering any support elsewhere.

[edwinclapham]

Thanks, all. I suppose I did approach this incorrectly as SC pointed out. However, I have the suspicion that no approach would have garnered significantly more positive feedback which totally makes sense.

Thailand really generally attracts certain kind of Westerners. Among a select few others, Thailand is full of all manner of ill adapted, poorly educated westerners. In the 15 years that I've been living and visiting here, I've met a very small percentage of westerners who were worth knowing. And, I travel in all kinds of circles including those involved with government finance.

I no longer plan to follow this topic as it's not helpful to anyone.

I'll take up my cause elsewhere. There are actually other Thailand-related forums where the majority of people are actually much more polite and which seem to have a higher degree of education about Thai topics. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but the nasty posts that I've gotten given the overall positive nature of the effort is just sad.

Thank you to everyone who actually contributed something useful, and sorry I did not approach this with more tact.

Paully

You've completely blown it now with your childish dummy spit. What hope will you have of garnering any support elsewhere.

Give the man a break Simple. He posted on No 36 and apologised.

[MrRealDeal]

Calling people rude and uneducated is hardly an apology ....... even if you say "I don't mean to be rude"

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The Chinese didn't "fight", they figured out what the Thai elite wanted, too many many decades of working their way very hard and smart into the good graces of TPTB, including intermarrying (or just donating) their daughters with the nobility until they were part of the ruling elite.

They certainly didn't do it by whinging and openly organizing. Foreigners taking that approach would soon be persona non grata and one way or another would be gotten rid of.

And I honestly don't see your point about "injustice", many native Thais and certainly other "outsider" minorities are much much much more poorly treated by the ruling elite than farang, any organizing efforts should be directed to helping them, not us honkies IMO.

BJBKK,

I've noticed over the years that you post ALOT. I rarely notice you conceding points to anyone else, and I rarely, if ever, notice you defer to anyone else no matter how educated other posters have appeared to be on various subjects. So, I already know that there is no arguing with you. You are quite intelligent, but you cannot always be correct my good man.

Thank you for the comment, but I totally disagree with you, and I can point you at NUMEROUS scholarly texts written about Chinese assimilation in Thailand. I've taught such matters at Thammasat U in Bangkok to business execs and students alike here.

Again, thank you. I do enjoy reading many of your posts. And, good luck with your book. Keep an open mind.

Perhaps it would be useful to move the conversation forward if you stated specifically which of my points you disagree with.

And as a visiting farang, you've taught at Thammasat specifically on the topic of the history of Chinese assimilation into Thailand??

Really?

I've taught there as a mere TEFLer, and don't recall any foreigners being invited to teach Thais about Thai history, would be pretty easy to land in jail doing that if you tried to be accurate and weren't careful. . .

[MiG16]

There are various avenues for lobbying purposes, but ThaiVisa.com is not it

Forum rules specifically states that members cannot use ThaiVisa for any lobbying or soliciting purpose. Regardless how worthy the cause

All the best

[GuestHouse]

The OP's objectives are laudable, but he misses two important factors which will scupper any idea of a Falang Revolt.

Before I say what those are, we need to remember that illegal immigrants, people without rights or indeed freedom have throughout history won their liberty and rights - There is nothing that says people without rights can't win them.

The problem is not the lack of rights, rather the Falangs themselves and there in lies the two problems:

Problem 1. - A significant proportion of the Falang in Thailand are here because they ran away from responsibilities of life - They are not about to become socially or politically active to help anyone.

Problem 2. - An even bigger proportion of the Falang in Thailand are here for cold beer and luke warm women - something they know they cannot find elsewhere.

The most anyone can expect of these people is they get a local lass up the duff and then apply for visas to support a family with the bonus of a reduced income rate.

[GuestHouse]

^^ QED

Edited June 17, 2012 by GuestHouse

[MrRealDeal]

What evedence do you have to back up those assumptions ? Because none of the people I associate with are like that . You are saying that some large enough percentage of Ex pats to mattter are either sexpats or irisponsible people who ran away ..... What studies can you refer me to to back this claim up ?