Thailand's Yellow Shirts Regroup, Seek Comeback

[Mosha]

The really sad thing is. The Issan poor actually believe Thaksin cares about them.

[kerryk]

Quite correct and they are taking over the news thread because of sheer volume of posts. No one is willing to challenge them consistently enough to remove the large amount of off topic posts for example this thread which is about Yellow shirts now relegated to Thaksin bashing. There are simply too many posts that are filled with nothing but anti Thaksin rhetoric for any one or even a few objective people to take on the hoard.

You might take a moment to read the thread title, "Thailand's Yellow Shirts Regroup, Seek Comeback". Why are yellow shirt protests making a comeback? Its because Thaksin's sister is putting a bill through parliament to get Thaksin 46bn cashback and absolution for his crimes.

Notice how it is Thaksin, and Thaksin's sister, and their current undemocratic actions that are causing the yellowshirts to regroup in protest, notice that it is not TV posters going off-topic to talk about Thaksin in this thread. Notice it is Thaksin and his family keeping his name and his crimes at the very centre of government policy and in most news headlines including this one.

You must have been assigned different talking points then in the article. It discusses regrouping and not regrouping in protest. The full article title refers to seeking comeback not regroup in protest as you wrote. The whole title is, "Thailand's yellow shirts regroup, seek comeback." The article also mentions, The Asian Human Rights Commission accused the group in 2008 of "fascist qualities" and said it posed "grave dangers" to Thai democracy. But you didn't mention that; why?http://uk.reuters.co...E85G07L20120617

Edited June 18, 2012 by kerryk

[JurgenG]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

If the reds are the best defense against mob power, the whole country is in BIG trouble

Agree with you

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

[kerryk]

The really sad thing is. The Issan poor actually believe Thaksin cares about them.

Do you know what he did for them?

[Yunla]

You must have been assigned different talking points then in the article. It discusses regrouping and not regrouping in protest. The full article title refers to seeking comeback not regroup in protest as you wrote. The whole title is, "Thailand's yellow shirts regroup, seek comeback." The article also mentions, The Asian Human Rights Commission accused the group in 2008 of "fascist qualities" and said it posed "grave dangers" to Thai democracy. But you didn't mention that; why?http://uk.reuters.co...E85G07L20120617

I was addressing your erroneous assertion that threads like this one that are not to do with Thaksin are derailed by some posters' Thaksin bashing (paraphrased).

I just pointed out that infact this thread is all about Thaksin. If he hadn't returned to the scene, and bribed his sister into PM office, and she hadn't used her PM office to try and hamstring the legal-system to get her brother's custodial sentence overturned, then the "yellowshirts"(derogatory) AKA Democracy Movement would not be rallying, marching or protesting. Its not about Thaksin bashing.

He doesn't deserve bashing, he deserves two to three decades in a prison cell because he is a convicted fleeing criminal, guilty of massive larceny and murder. He should be in prison, and his sister should be in prison too for abuse of authority and treason.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Yunla

[philw]

I think perhaps a general reply makes more sense to points raised because I have no wish to get into slanging matches.

1.Its very evident that some have virtually no understanding of Thailand business history nor how Thaksin became so wealthy.That could be remedied by reading one of several excellent books on the subject - but no that's too much like hard work for some.Easier to rant about Thaksin as the source of all evil.

2.Yes I do believe that there are those who wittingly or unwittingly are prepared to risk Thailand's prosperous and democratic future if their place at the feeding trough is jeapordised.

3.Business practices in Thailand have not been of a high standard.Thaksin was no exception.However he cannot be singled out as worse than many others.And yes I can think of others who have benefited equally from influence and quasi monoplistic practices.That doesn't mean I approve or condone this kind of behaviour.

I'm not going to disagree with that. Who among those other monopolists and trough feeders are actively fomenting mob violence, has autocratic leanings and is forming personal business alliances with bordering dictators?

Sorry but that kind of question leads in the wrong directions and cannot be discussed.

Suggest you buy, and read, a few books next time you are in Singapore.

Read them with a critical mind of course.

I do not say they are right, but their unavailability speaks volumes............( as it were )

Edited June 18, 2012 by philw

[kerryk]

You must have been assigned different talking points then in the article. It discusses regrouping and not regrouping in protest. The full article title refers to seeking comeback not regroup in protest as you wrote. The whole title is, "Thailand's yellow shirts regroup, seek comeback." The article also mentions, The Asian Human Rights Commission accused the group in 2008 of "fascist qualities" and said it posed "grave dangers" to Thai democracy. But you didn't mention that; why?http://uk.reuters.co...E85G07L20120617

I was addressing your erroneous assertion that threads like this one that are not to do with Thaksin are derailed by some posters' Thaksin bashing (paraphrased).

I just pointed out that infact this thread is all about Thaksin. If he hadn't returned to the scene, and bribed his sister into PM office, and she hadn't used her PM office to try and hamstring the legal-system to get her brother's custodial sentence overturned, then the "yellowshirts"(derogatory) AKA Democracy Movement would not be rallying, marching or protesting. Its not about Thaksin bashing.

He doesn't deserve bashing, he deserves two to three decades in a prison cell because he is a convicted fleeing criminal, guilty of massive larceny and murder. He should be in prison, and his sister should be in prison too for abuse of authority and treason.

I can see your point. I also watch Thai TV.Did you watch the Sydney thing on Thai anti govwernment TV? It was really nasty. Impolite and nasty. It was in stark contrast with what you now see in Egypt where they just cut a TV feed and pulled the signal for the news reporters phones. When I read the adults posting on TV from supposedly civilized Western countries I am frankly amazed. I have never seen so much discourtesy to a head of State outside of wartime.I have no problem with discussion but why do you have to be so vile? Is there some reason I am missing? The courts said Thaksin should go to jail for a couple of years you suggest three decades and his sister the serving head of state in jail too. This is a thread about the Yellow Shirts making a political comeback! Is this the place? You said this thread is not about Thaksin bashing but you said in this thread,"There is no doubt that records of the 30% Thai state funds which went 'walkies' during the Thaksin years, all those paper records went into shredders most likely when the ink was still wet.I believe this to be true and that is why Thaksin is a true tyrant, because 30% of Thai state funds is money for schools, flood management, road safety, chemical regulations, water safety, etc.etc. It is a huge amount of money that Thaksin stole from the Thai state and that money was taken from Thai people, of which the poorest got hit hardest. " So is that Thaksin bashing? What, did you forget you said it?

[h90]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

If the reds are the best defense against mob power, the whole country is in BIG trouble

Agree with you

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

When Thaksin was kicked in 2006 he was NOT an elected government.

[MEL1]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

JurgenG. The reds and the yellows are BOTH mobs. They both have supporters and detractors, they both use the same tactics of blockage and intimidation (under the guise of demonstration) to achieve their goals, they both have big hitting political and financial backers, they both claim to represent large sections of society, neither will rest until their opponents are eliminated, they both seek either directly or indirectly a non pluralist political system with their leaders at the top. They have a lot in common, most startling of all is that both of them care little about the damage they inflict on their country or the livelihoods of people they claim to represent.

So your final statement 'Forget democracy, welcome to mob power.' is a very apt and correct slogan for both the reds and yellows. Self serving moronic buffoons the lot of em!!

Only when both mobs are politically and socially sidelined will the country move forward. Until then Thailand will be stuck in the 20th Century.

Which century again?

-mel

[lannarebirth]

I think perhaps a general reply makes more sense to points raised because I have no wish to get into slanging matches.

1.Its very evident that some have virtually no understanding of Thailand business history nor how Thaksin became so wealthy.That could be remedied by reading one of several excellent books on the subject - but no that's too much like hard work for some.Easier to rant about Thaksin as the source of all evil.

2.Yes I do believe that there are those who wittingly or unwittingly are prepared to risk Thailand's prosperous and democratic future if their place at the feeding trough is jeapordised.

3.Business practices in Thailand have not been of a high standard.Thaksin was no exception.However he cannot be singled out as worse than many others.And yes I can think of others who have benefited equally from influence and quasi monoplistic practices.That doesn't mean I approve or condone this kind of behaviour.

I'm not going to disagree with that. Who among those other monopolists and trough feeders are actively fomenting mob violence, has autocratic leanings and is forming personal business alliances with bordering dictators?

Sorry but that kind of question leads in the wrong directions and cannot be discussed.

Suggest you buy, and read, a few books next time you are in Singapore.

Read them with a critical mind of course.

I do not say they are right, but their unavailability speaks volumes............( as it were )

I've read dozens of books on the histories and current affairs of the countries in SE Asia. On the elected and non elected leaders too. I've read those books you refer to also but I think I'd rather see Thailand overcome the devil it knows than be saddled with the new devil it only thinks it knows.

[ratcatcher]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

JurgenG. The reds and the yellows are BOTH mobs. They both have supporters and detractors, they both use the same tactics of blockage and intimidation (under the guise of demonstration) to achieve their goals, they both have big hitting political and financial backers, they both claim to represent large sections of society, neither will rest until their opponents are eliminated, they both seek either directly or indirectly a non pluralist political system with their leaders at the top. They have a lot in common, most startling of all is that both of them care little about the damage they inflict on their country or the livelihoods of people they claim to represent.

So your final statement 'Forget democracy, welcome to mob power.' is a very apt and correct slogan for both the reds and yellows. Self serving moronic buffoons the lot of em!!

Only when both mobs are politically and socially sidelined will the country move forward. Until then Thailand will be stuck in the 20th Century.

Which century again?

-mel

I think it might have been more apt if he had said "the 19th century" ?

[kerryk]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

If the reds are the best defense against mob power, the whole country is in BIG trouble

Agree with you

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

When Thaksin was kicked in 2006 he was NOT an elected government.

Lets see, the UK US and UN thought he was elected and a guy named H90 on Thai Visa does not think so, hmmmmmm

[birdpooguava]

The TVTBB (Thai Visa Thaksin Bashing Brigade) seem to be blissfully unaware of the deliberate vilification of Thaksin Shinawatra. They seem to honestly believe everything that comes out of the PAD/ Dems' mouths about the man. Let's be realistic guys, he is no angel, but he is not half as bad as they make him out to be. He also did a lot of positive things in his time in office and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice. It is also blatantly obvious that the reason for their propaganda is their realisation of their lack of popularity at the polls. But instead of changing policies they embarked on an selfish, systematic and largely fictitious attack on one man, all to the detriment of the country they say they want to represent.

[Yunla]

I am frankly amazed. I have never seen so much discourtesy to a head of State outside of wartime.I have no problem with discussion but why do you have to be so vile? Is there some reason I am missing? The courts said Thaksin should go to jail for a couple of years you suggest three decades and his sister the serving head of state in jail too.

Its not really discourtesy to criticise political leaders for being inept or corrupt. I don't really try to be vile either. RE: why he should face 20-30 years, Thaksin was only convicted on one charge which carried a light sentence which has has run away from.

He is also accused of several other major crimes including said overspending which as I said before is hard to prove or salvage paperwork afterwards especially in a nepotistic regime like Thaksin's was. From wikipedia-thaksin page : "Supannee Chai-amporn and Sirinthip Arun-rue of the National Institute of Development Administration claimed that policy corruption caused the state to spend nearly 30 per cent more than it otherwise should have spent, costing the state an additional 400 billion baht."

In 2010 Thaksin funded and was leader of an armed uprising against the capital city of Thailand, an armed seige which resulted in 90+ deaths, massive financial damage and lost business-productivity and tourism losses. Thaksin as financier and ringleader of this armed uprising must face charges relating to all 90+ deaths by complicity, and financial damage caused. His sister has allowed her PTP party to hand out home phone numbers and addresses of dissenters to a street-mob, and she has not brought the guilty person to justice nor even reprimanded them. This is abuse of power. It is also treasonous to threaten the stability of the judiciary and give out home addresses of such prominent persons. I think Yingluck should face justice for that crime.

Those are the reasons the "yellowshirts" are up in arms again, as this thread says, they are reacting to a perceived threat to the constitution and to defend the framework of the law from attack by a family crime-syndicate.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Yunla

[lannarebirth]

If the reds are the best defense against mob power, the whole country is in BIG trouble

Agree with you

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

When Thaksin was kicked in 2006 he was NOT an elected government.

Lets see, the UK US and UN thought he was elected and a guy named H90 on Thai Visa does not think so, hmmmmmm

Actually there was no government in place at the time of the Coup. The US, UK and UN likely thout TIT "That Is Thailand".

[lannarebirth]

The TVTBB (Thai Visa Thaksin Bashing Brigade) seem to be blissfully unaware of the deliberate vilification of Thaksin Shinawatra. They seem to honestly believe everything that comes out of the PAD/ Dems' mouths about the man. Let's be realistic guys, he is no angel, but he is not half as bad as they make him out to be. He also did a lot of positive things in his time in office and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice. It is also blatantly obvious that the reason for their propaganda is their realisation of their lack of popularity at the polls. But instead of changing policies they embarked on an selfish, systematic and largely fictitious attack on one man, all to the detriment of the country they say they want to represent.

Nobody's buying ths "PAD/Dems" crapola. The reactionary PAD supported the more moderate Dems when they thought it furthered their interests. They later split away finding the Dems too moderate and reformist. It IS accurate to characterize the incumbents as the "PTP/UDD" however, as they are aligned. It will be interesting to see what happens when the more revolutionary minded UDD splits with the criminally minded PTP. It's going to look like a house of cards in a hurricane.

[animatic]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

JurgenG. The reds and the yellows are BOTH mobs. They both have supporters and detractors, they both use the same tactics of blockage and intimidation (under the guise of demonstration) to achieve their goals, they both have big hitting political and financial backers, they both claim to represent large sections of society, neither will rest until their opponents are eliminated, they both seek either directly or indirectly a non pluralist political system with their leaders at the top. They have a lot in common, most startling of all is that both of them care little about the damage they inflict on their country or the livelihoods of people they claim to represent.

So your final statement 'Forget democracy, welcome to mob power.' is a very apt and correct slogan for both the reds and yellows. Self serving moronic buffoons the lot of em!!

Only when both mobs are politically and socially sidelined will the country move forward. Until then Thailand will be stuck in the 20th Century.

Which century again?

-mel

Oh he is right, they are not in the 21st century except in certain corners and on calendars.

Affectively 18th, or even 16th centuries, fits several aspects of the society.

Technology aside (3G HA!), this place is quite the anthropological and sociological study.

Edited June 18, 2012 by animatic

[geriatrickid]

There is a significant difference between the PAD and UDD protests.In terms of direct damage to the national economy, the PAD are the champions, because PAD has targeted the facilities that most impact the Thai economy. It is why the business community turned on PAD. This doesn't justify anything the UDD has done or will do, but the UDD protests do not target the Thai national economy, nor do they inflict longterm damage. Oh sure, someone will say the Bangkok arson inflicted economic hardship on a sector. Yes it did, but the fact of the matter is that there was a quick recovery. The legacy of PAD protests was a lingering systemic financial loss. For the most part, UDD protests have been characterized by boring speeches and people disrupting traffic. PAD's protests have gone right for the economic jugular.

Ideally, neither group would be out on the streets protesting and we can certainly do without agitated UDD supporters on the loose. However, PAD now has one goal and that is to demonstrate its power and influence. Under the circumstances, PAD is the group most likely to again damage the national economy as it lashes out at everyone and everything. The business community knows that PAD is looking to again make a point and it is target number 1. The UDD is not targeting the business community at this time and if it is smart will keep it that way and give PAD enough rope to hang itself.

[scorecard]

The TVTBB (Thai Visa Thaksin Bashing Brigade) seem to be blissfully unaware of the deliberate vilification of Thaksin Shinawatra. They seem to honestly believe everything that comes out of the PAD/ Dems' mouths about the man. Let's be realistic guys, he is no angel, but he is not half as bad as they make him out to be. He also did a lot of positive things in his time in office and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice. It is also blatantly obvious that the reason for their propaganda is their realisation of their lack of popularity at the polls. But instead of changing policies they embarked on an selfish, systematic and largely fictitious attack on one man, all to the detriment of the country they say they want to represent.

Nobody's buying ths "PAD/Dems" crapola. The reactionary PAD supported the more moderate Dems when they thought it furthered their interests. They later split away finding the Dems too moderate and reformist. It IS accurate to characterize the incumbents as the "PTP/UDD" however, as they are aligned. It will be interesting to see what happens when the more revolutionary minded UDD splits with the criminally minded PTP. It's going to look like a house of cards in a hurricane.

From birdpooguava: ".....He also did a lot of positive things in his time in office and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice. It is also blatantly obvious that the reason for their propaganda is their realisation of their lack of popularity at the polls. But instead of changing policies they embarked on an selfish, systematic and largely fictitious attack on one man, all to the detriment of the country they say they want to represent."

Yes he did a few good things, but the list is certainly not long and is very outweighed by the negative points, many of which are very are serious matters, including blatant serious abuse of power and more. And not fiction as you would suggest.

The part of your post I have cut and paste includes numerous erroneous points: example: '....and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice'.

- Empowerment: please share a couple of examples of these folks (who do receive a raw deal, same as most poor and lower income Thais) personally displaying / using empowerment.

- Justice: Please share a couple of specific examples of these folks gaining justice, which has some connection to the paymaster gaining justice for Thai people,

The truth is, in regard to justice, that the man has total disrespect for the law and the the processses of justice.

Edited June 18, 2012 by scorecard

[whybother]

...

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

Actually, it started in 2005 / early 2006 when someone decided that he didn't like the law and changed it to benefit himself.

If he hadn't done that, there wouldn't have been protests, he wouldn't have called an election, and there wouldn't have been a coup.

[birdpooguava]

The TVTBB (Thai Visa Thaksin Bashing Brigade) seem to be blissfully unaware of the deliberate vilification of Thaksin Shinawatra. They seem to honestly believe everything that comes out of the PAD/ Dems' mouths about the man. Let's be realistic guys, he is no angel, but he is not half as bad as they make him out to be. He also did a lot of positive things in his time in office and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice. It is also blatantly obvious that the reason for their propaganda is their realisation of their lack of popularity at the polls. But instead of changing policies they embarked on an selfish, systematic and largely fictitious attack on one man, all to the detriment of the country they say they want to represent.

Nobody's buying ths "PAD/Dems" crapola. The reactionary PAD supported the more moderate Dems when they thought it furthered their interests. They later split away finding the Dems too moderate and reformist. It IS accurate to characterize the incumbents as the "PTP/UDD" however, as they are aligned. It will be interesting to see what happens when the more revolutionary minded UDD splits with the criminally minded PTP. It's going to look like a house of cards in a hurricane.

But the Dems & PAD are equally guilty of trying to indoctrinate the Thai public about Thaksin's alleged evilness which is why I grouped them. Also if they are not in the same boat/ gravy train together, why were Suthep & his BlueSky buddies down at the yellow rabble's ruckus outside of parliament recently?

[kerryk]

I am frankly amazed. I have never seen so much discourtesy to a head of State outside of wartime.I have no problem with discussion but why do you have to be so vile? Is there some reason I am missing? The courts said Thaksin should go to jail for a couple of years you suggest three decades and his sister the serving head of state in jail too.

Its not really discourtesy to criticise political leaders for being inept or corrupt. I don't really try to be vile either. RE: why he should face 20-30 years, Thaksin was only convicted on one charge which carried a light sentence which has has run away from.

He is also accused of several other major crimes including said overspending which as I said before is hard to prove or salvage paperwork afterwards especially in a nepotistic regime like Thaksin's was. From wikipedia-thaksin page : "Supannee Chai-amporn and Sirinthip Arun-rue of the National Institute of Development Administration claimed that policy corruption caused the state to spend nearly 30 per cent more than it otherwise should have spent, costing the state an additional 400 billion baht."

In 2010 Thaksin funded and was leader of an armed uprising against the capital city of Thailand, an armed seige which resulted in 90+ deaths, massive financial damage and lost business-productivity and tourism losses. Thaksin as financier and ringleader of this armed uprising must face charges relating to all 90+ deaths by complicity, and financial damage caused. His sister has allowed her PTP party to hand out home phone numbers and addresses of dissenters to a street-mob, and she has not brought the guilty person to justice nor even reprimanded them. This is abuse of power. It is also treasonous to threaten the stability of the judiciary and give out home addresses of such prominent persons. I think Yingluck should face justice for that crime.

Those are the reasons the "yellowshirts" are up in arms again, as this thread says, they are reacting to a perceived threat to the constitution and to defend the framework of the law from attack by a family crime-syndicate.

Those are your reasons. The reasons you mentioned are not mentioned in the article. Your list of crimes is not written anywhere in the article. They are off topic. The Yellow shirts only want to make a political comeback!

[Yunla]

Those are your reasons. The reasons you mentioned are not mentioned in the article. Your list of crimes is not written anywhere in the article. They are off topic. The Yellow shirts only want to make a political comeback!

The Democracy Movement are trying to stop Yingluck and family "government" in order to protect the citizen rights and legal systems of this young democracy. It is a breach of human rights to give out home addresses of family homes where people who disagree with your policies live, to give out those addresses to angry mobs. That is called 'state fascism'.

I also think that you would be singing a very different song if it was your home-address being given out in public to a gang of angry thugs. Its always easy to be philosophical when its somebody else getting brutalised by PTP stormtroopers.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Yunla

[birdpooguava]

From birdpooguava: ".....He also did a lot of positive things in his time in office and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice. It is also blatantly obvious that the reason for their propaganda is their realisation of their lack of popularity at the polls. But instead of changing policies they embarked on an selfish, systematic and largely fictitious attack on one man, all to the detriment of the country they say they want to represent."

Yes he did a few good things, but he list is certainly not long is is very outweighed by the negative points, many of which are very negative and serious matters, includingblatant serious abuse of power and more. And not fiction and you would suggest.

The part of your post I have cut and paste includes numerous erroneous points: '....and gave the people of the North & North-east a feeling of empowerment & justice'.

- Empowerment: please share a couple of examples of these folks (who do receive a raw deal, same as most poor and lower income Thais) persoanally displaying / using empowerment.

- Justice: Please share a couple of specific examples of these folks gaining justice, he paymasters actions.

The truth is, in regard to justice, that the man has total disrespect for the law and the the processses of justice.

My post does say 'a feeling' of empowerment & justice. But anyway you asked for it;

• Poverty reduction remains high on the national agenda. Under the recently revised poverty line, incidence of poverty in terms of headcount has fallen from 21.3 percent in 2000 (14.2 percent in 2000 based on the old poverty line) to 11.3 percent in 2004. This decline was mainly contributed by the reduction in the number of poor in the Northeast. The Northeast, which is the most populous region and houses more than half of Thailand’s poor, has seen a reduction in headcount from 35 percent of population in 2000 to 17.2 percent in 2004. http://siteresources...full-report.pdf
  
• the introduction of universal healthcare
  
• village-managed micro-credit development funds
  
• low-interest agricultural loans
  
• direct injections of cash into village development funds (the SML scheme)
  
• (OTOP) rural small and medium enterprise development program
  
• GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006
  
• Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006
  
• Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000)
  
• The SET outperformed other markets in the region
  
• Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007
  
• Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006
  
• Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006
  
• 70 billion THB (2 billion USD) were used for social projects, including the "One District, One Scholarship" program.
  
• Thaksin subsidized low-cost universal access to anti-retroviral HIV medication (ARVs)....................................
  

Edited June 18, 2012 by birdpooguava

[whybother]

Those are your reasons. The reasons you mentioned are not mentioned in the article. Your list of crimes is not written anywhere in the article. They are off topic. The Yellow shirts only want to make a political comeback!

But why do they want to make a comeback (not a "political comeback")?

That halted debate on a reconciliation bill which the yellow shirts believe will bring home their arch-enemy, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

[Mosha]

The really sad thing is. The Issan poor actually believe Thaksin cares about them.

Do you know what he did for them?

Same as he did for the poor outside Issan.

[kerryk]

Those are your reasons. The reasons you mentioned are not mentioned in the article. Your list of crimes is not written anywhere in the article. They are off topic. The Yellow shirts only want to make a political comeback!

But why do they want to make a comeback (not a "political comeback")?

That halted debate on a reconciliation bill which the yellow shirts believe will bring home their arch-enemy, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

You're a cheat. You cut up my first post without mentioning the crimes that were the point of my post. Write your own posts don't use mine if you want to cherry pick words and change the meaning. Besides it is against the rules.

[kerryk]

The really sad thing is. The Issan poor actually believe Thaksin cares about them.

Do you know what he did for them?

Same as he did for the poor outside Issan.

So you don't know. OK. Not everyone lived here then.

[Mosha]

The really sad thing is. The Issan poor actually believe Thaksin cares about them.

Do you know what he did for them?

Same as he did for the poor outside Issan.

So you don't know. OK. Not everyone lived here then.

My wife was one of those poor. She says he did absolutely nothing

[kerryk]

We now have examples of one farm wife evaluating the performance of a PM for how many years? Isn't that a bit much even for you guys?