Thailand's Yellow Shirts Regroup, Seek Comeback

[Yunla]

No body woke up. Yingluck's party got elected and your talking points didn't.

I assume by 'talking points' you mean my knowledge of and belief in progressive democracy? Since you will not be more specific I can not respond to you on that one.

Yingluck's party did indeed get elected, which you and your little friends are so keen to remind us in every post you make. What you are more reluctant to discuss is what Yingluck's party has done SINCE becoming elected. Human-rights abuse re; dissenters' home addresses given to a street-mob, parliamentary blanking of debate, flood mismanagement, Yingluck's gross parliamentary absenteeism, Yingluck's refusal to debate or interview unscripted or even at all, failure to address the massive infrastructure problems in Thailand, failure to help the poorest in Thailand, lying about rising cost of living, failure to fulfill 90+% of their own weak election promises, assaulting the judiciary and the constitution and the authority of the supreme court, and putting the absolution of her own criminal brother over the stability and prosperity of Thailand.

These are the actions of Yingluck since she won the election as you so cheerfully remind everyone. How about talking a bit about the post-election Yingluck or is that all just filed under "talking points" in your world.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Yunla

[scorecard]

if you wanted a mobile phone, you bought it from AIS and paid their premium. If you wanted to use it, you paid AIS rates. AIS was allowed to overcharge with no oversight, both phones and rates well above other countries. Are claiming that is normal business practice?

Are you serious? In Thailand? Yes, sounds like quite a normal Thai business practice to me!

I have lost count of the times here, where I've hit a brick wall and been held to ransom as that person/ company holds the monopoly on the product/ decision that I require...

Is it correct and ethical business practice? Well as far the individuals/ businesses that hold the monopolies are concerned, I'm sure it's great business! Ethical? No, but that leads to the real question...

Why are certain cases of unethical monopolization exposed and prosecuted while others protected and concealed?

Having a monopoly was just ONE of the malfeasance. You forgot about writing laws to benefit his company and inside information. For example, if the government had to build roads somewhere and the first person to know would be Thaksin, guess what's going to happen. Instead of having contractors to bid for the project, he goes out of his way to 'appoint' a contractor which can triple the actual price of the project, lining his own pocket. Another example would be the Suvarnabhumi project. There are so many others cases.

My understanding is that thaksin got Suvarnabhumi built on budget and on time. Furthermore despite the scurrilous false articles published in the not the nation claiming severe faults with the airport ( they had to publicly apologize a year later after the coup) only 1% failure rate was found at the airport and British airways described the airport as built to a very high standard.

The second terminal was due to have been built by now but then we had the coup, then the abhisit regime and hey guess what?

Nothing happened.

Oh and the yellow shirts?

I think this is their last hurrah.

The loyalists last stand.

Suggest you do your research again about the building of swampy airport. It was not opend on time, in fact the delays prompted the paymaster at one stage to sleep overnigh (one night) at the airport as some gesture to prompt the construction people to speed up. There were Major problems with runways (major cracks which meant runways could not be used) and major problems with the earth compaction and stability of the places where aircraft park on arrival at the airbridges,etc., major problems with most of the toilets....

"1%" problems - just not true.

What should also be said is that the airport was built to a design which was some 35 years old which was not updated before construction started. In other words the numerous highly valuable lessons learned about airport design and operation etc., within that 35 year period (HK Airport, the ongoing lessons and improvments made at Changi and many more across the world) were ignored. Why? No need to explain..

[thaicbr]

The Yellowshirts are a small minority of.the Thai people. The Redshirts are a slightly larger small minority of the Thai people.

People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds.

I would presume that as the stupid yellow leadership had a no vote campaign last election. Few yellows voted Democrats.

I wonder what the results would have been otherwise.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Ferangled]

if you wanted a mobile phone, you bought it from AIS and paid their premium. If you wanted to use it, you paid AIS rates. AIS was allowed to overcharge with no oversight, both phones and rates well above other countries. Are claiming that is normal business practice?

Are you serious? In Thailand? Yes, sounds like quite a normal Thai business practice to me!

I have lost count of the times here, where I've hit a brick wall and been held to ransom as that person/ company holds the monopoly on the product/ decision that I require...

Is it correct and ethical business practice? Well as far the individuals/ businesses that hold the monopolies are concerned, I'm sure it's great business! Ethical? No, but that leads to the real question...

Why are certain cases of unethical monopolization exposed and prosecuted while others protected and concealed?

Having a monopoly was just ONE of the malfeasance. You forgot about writing laws to benefit his company and inside information. For example, if the government had to build roads somewhere and the first person to know would be Thaksin, guess what's going to happen. Instead of having contractors to bid for the project, he goes out of his way to 'appoint' a contractor which can triple the actual price of the project, lining his own pocket. Another example would be the Suvarnabhumi project. There are so many others cases.

And that's somehow an answer to my question?

Clearly not so why quote and post as a reply? Your reply is totally out of context to my post, kindly start your own post or answer my question.

[Ferangled]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

hey but that's OK 'round here, they're yellow shirts.

Trust me, I know.

But there is a numbers of people who visit this forum without any preconceived opinion, just looking for information. It's important they understand the views expressed here by the yellow shirts supporters are from a minority and don't reflect the views of the majority, you just have to check the results of the elections for the past 10 years to understand that.

Why trust you just look at the results of the last election you are full of b s.

The last election showed that 52% of the population favored the yellow shirts.

Why do you feel the need to say things that are false. Is it just your feeble attempt to justify the clowns in power.

I love this, when all else fails just make things up! Then accuse others of making false statements...

[scorecard]

The Yellowshirts are a small minority of.the Thai people. The Redshirts are a slightly larger small minority of the Thai people.

People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds.

I would presume that as the stupid yellow leadership had a no vote campaign last election. Few yellows voted Democrats.

I wonder what the results would have been otherwise.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

From above:

"People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds."

Well there is some truth in that. Here's one example: The neighbors of my adult Thai son (they live in a pretty nice, fairly new, gated moo baan, but not top luxury) are both doctors of medicine, both work in the govt hospital / regional health offices system, both middle aged, one has a quite senior position, the other an upper middle management level position.

Before the election my son asked them how they would decide who to vote for. Their immediate answer: "the party that promises to keep pork and egg prices down".

My son asked 'what about long term development policies, especially about education reform (which they know my son is passionate about)',

Their answer - their is no point in talking about long-term policies and in any case it's impossible, for a country, to have long-term policies.

The ultimate point - the continuing naivety of very large sections of the Thai electorate, even those with education and access to higher levels of discussion and expected to contribute to those higher levels of discussion.

Edited June 19, 2012 by scorecard

[kerryk]

No body woke up. Yingluck's party got elected and your talking points didn't.

I assume by 'talking points' you mean my knowledge of and belief in progressive democracy? Since you will not be more specific I can not respond to you on that one.

Yingluck's party did indeed get elected, which you and your little friends are so keen to remind us in every post you make. What you are more reluctant to discuss is what Yingluck's party has done SINCE becoming elected. Human-rights abuse re; dissenters' home addresses given to a street-mob, parliamentary blanking of debate, flood mismanagement, Yingluck's gross parliamentary absenteeism, Yingluck's refusal to debate or interview unscripted or even at all, failure to address the massive infrastructure problems in Thailand, failure to help the poorest in Thailand, lying about rising cost of living, failure to fulfill 90+% of their own weak election promises, assaulting the judiciary and the constitution and the authority of the supreme court, and putting the absolution of her own criminal brother over the stability and prosperity of Thailand.

These are the actions of Yingluck since she won the election as you so cheerfully remind everyone. How about talking a bit about the post-election Yingluck or is that all just filed under "talking points" in your world.

Talking points? I think you all meet on line daily and decide what you will try and push that day. I can't for the life of me figure out any other reason you all post so much. I don't like Thaksin because he was not friendly to expats. Normally I would post negative opinions of anything his proxy government promulgated. The only reason I don't is the nonsensical and impolite way he and his government are attacked on Thai Visa. I agree with you on most things but it boggles my mind the way you are allowed to abuse figures in the current government. I can understand it on Thai TV. I watch that every night. But gosh you are supposed to be Englishmen! Gentlemen. Even if some of you have been transported.

[scorecard]

if you wanted a mobile phone, you bought it from AIS and paid their premium. If you wanted to use it, you paid AIS rates. AIS was allowed to overcharge with no oversight, both phones and rates well above other countries. Are claiming that is normal business practice?

Are you serious? In Thailand? Yes, sounds like quite a normal Thai business practice to me!

I have lost count of the times here, where I've hit a brick wall and been held to ransom as that person/ company holds the monopoly on the product/ decision that I require...

Is it correct and ethical business practice? Well as far the individuals/ businesses that hold the monopolies are concerned, I'm sure it's great business! Ethical? No, but that leads to the real question...

Why are certain cases of unethical monopolization exposed and prosecuted while others protected and concealed?

Having a monopoly was just ONE of the malfeasance. You forgot about writing laws to benefit his company and inside information. For example, if the government had to build roads somewhere and the first person to know would be Thaksin, guess what's going to happen. Instead of having contractors to bid for the project, he goes out of his way to 'appoint' a contractor which can triple the actual price of the project, lining his own pocket. Another example would be the Suvarnabhumi project. There are so many others cases.

And that's somehow an answer to my question?

Clearly not so why quote and post as a reply? Your reply is totally out of context to my post, kindly start your own post or answer my question.

From above:

"Why are certain cases of unethical monopolization exposed and prosecuted while others protected and concealed?"

Is there a specific and clear answer to this question. Unfortunately no, but:

Part of the answer lies within the credibility, honesty, and morality of the office holders in the various agencies (in place by the will of the people) who should be monitoring these things. And unfortunately there are many of these 'office holders' who are not focused on their duties (paid for out of the common wealth of all Thais or all citizens in any country), and in fact 90% of their focus and activity is focused on opportunities to increase their personal wealth etc., totally regardless of laws and morals.

Part of the answer lies within the level of 'scaliness' of elected politicians, and those in powerful places (usually NOT because of their capability or past picture of credibility or positive contribution), and the level of their immoral interference in the check and balance mechanisms etc.

And the reality is that whilst the above is true many will continue to not be fingered or identified or prosecuted.

Part of the answer lies within the whole circumstances of acts of corruption. All people who get involved in corruption know full well that they are doing things which are dishonest, illegal (often highly illegal, and often very large amounts of money), and highly imorral, they all know that there could be the day / the moment when the axe falls and it could be on them!

Edited June 19, 2012 by scorecard

[Ferangled]

The Yellowshirts are a small minority of.the Thai people. The Redshirts are a slightly larger small minority of the Thai people.

People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds.

I would presume that as the stupid yellow leadership had a no vote campaign last election. Few yellows voted Democrats.

I wonder what the results would have been otherwise.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

From above:

"People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds."

Well there is some truth in that. Here's one example: The neighbors of my adult Thai son (they live in a pretty nice, fairly new, gated moo baan, but not top luxury) are both doctors of medicine, both work in the govt hospital / regional health offices system, both middle aged, one has a quite senior position, the other an upper middle management level position.

Before the election my son asked them how they would decide who to vote for. Their immediate answer: "the party that promises to keep pork and egg prices down".

My son asked 'what about long term development policies, especially about education reform (which they know my son is passionate about)',

Their answer - their is no point in talking about long-term policies and in any case it's impossible, for a country, to have long-term policies.

The ultimate point - the continuing naivety of very large sections of the Thai electorate, even those with education and access to higher levels of discussion and expected to contribute to those higher levels of discussion.

Sadly the doctors are probably correct in respect to their comments about long term policies being impossible in Thailand.

This would require some sort of functioning Government where the political parties have some common ground and work for the good of the people. Unfortunately we have political parties at polar opposites, focused purely on wrestling power and control to achieve their own agendas.

A properly functioning Government require functional and intelligent discourse between politicians and an opposition party to act as such, rather than simply seeking to remove each successive Government by whatever means necessary...

[scorecard]

The Yellowshirts are a small minority of.the Thai people. The Redshirts are a slightly larger small minority of the Thai people.

People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds.

I would presume that as the stupid yellow leadership had a no vote campaign last election. Few yellows voted Democrats.

I wonder what the results would have been otherwise.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

From above:

"People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds."

Well there is some truth in that. Here's one example: The neighbors of my adult Thai son (they live in a pretty nice, fairly new, gated moo baan, but not top luxury) are both doctors of medicine, both work in the govt hospital / regional health offices system, both middle aged, one has a quite senior position, the other an upper middle management level position.

Before the election my son asked them how they would decide who to vote for. Their immediate answer: "the party that promises to keep pork and egg prices down".

My son asked 'what about long term development policies, especially about education reform (which they know my son is passionate about)',

Their answer - their is no point in talking about long-term policies and in any case it's impossible, for a country, to have long-term policies.

The ultimate point - the continuing naivety of very large sections of the Thai electorate, even those with education and access to higher levels of discussion and expected to contribute to those higher levels of discussion.

Sadly the doctors are probably correct in respect to their comments about long term policies being impossible in Thailand.

This would require some sort of functioning Government where the political parties have some common ground and work for the good of the people. Unfortunately we have political parties at polar opposites, focused purely on wrestling power and control to achieve their own agendas.

A properly functioning Government require functional and intelligent discourse between politicians and an opposition party to act as such, rather than simply seeking to remove each successive Government by whatever means necessary...

Agree! And unfortunately, the electorate at large is unaware / naive about what the whole picture (as you well describe it) should look like.

[Yunla]

Talking points? I think you all meet on line daily and decide what you will try and push that day. I can't for the life of me figure out any other reason you all post so much. I don't like Thaksin because he was not friendly to expats. Normally I would post negative opinions of anything his proxy government promulgated. The only reason I don't is the nonsensical and impolite way he and his government are attacked on Thai Visa. I agree with you on most things but it boggles my mind the way you are allowed to abuse figures in the current government. I can understand it on Thai TV. I watch that every night. But gosh you are supposed to be Englishmen! Gentlemen. Even if some of you have been transported.

I'm a Swedishwoman for a start, and secondly the reason I post about PTP is that they are committing state-level crimes in the country where I own a home and where most of my friends are citizens.

I feel that crimes committed against the nation of Thailand, are crimes committed against the citizens of Thailand including the many hardworking Thais who I have had the great honour of knowing for decades and whose children I have seen grow from birth to their twenties. I am a foreigner and here on short term tourist / health / ed visas, but my friends are Thai and I don't like their government being run by convicted criminals, I don't like it when my best friend is crying because she can't afford school uniforms for example. This country has huge amount of tourist revenue and the potential to be an extremely successful nation, but people like Thaksin and sister and their repulsive PTP cronies are basically sucking all the money and lifeforce out of this nation and it is not the elite who suffer it is blue collar working Thais like my friends here in Bangkok.

In the mornings I read international news on other forums and comment if I feel I can make a valid points, I read the posts on the sociology bulletin-board I have attended since 1989, and later in the morning I read Thai news on this forum.

I try to keep interested in the world around me, and I believe it is the duty of all people to express their opinions and to exercise their right to speak, lest that right be taken from us all.

I feel that Abhisit is a good man, an intelligent politician and that he has integrity and restraint, and he was working hard to implement new infrastructure and anti-corruption projects during his short time in office.

I fail to see PTP or Yingluck display any such integrity or restraint, or see them implement long-term infrastructure projects. Their main project is the absolution of Thaksin. What Thailand needs is for Thaksin to either go to jail or to disappear from the radar altogether. What PTP needs to do is make some real infrastructure-improvement and poverty-eradication policies and work TIRELESSLY to achieve those honourable goals. When they do so I will cry for joy and congratulate them.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Yunla

[lannarebirth]

You don't feel any debt owed to mention the person who started the system in the first place?

Chuan Leekpai?

(Did I cut anything out of your post this time?)

Chuan's governmentdevised the program and while vetting it decided there were not yet the tax resources (coming off Asian Crisis) to implement it. Thaksin implemented it despite no funding and led everyone to believe it was his creation. It was massively underfunded and poorly coordinated with healthcare providers who scrambled out of the system by the droves, simply because he rushed it.

Have you got a source for this? That Chuan devised the 30baht scheme seems to be common knowledge on this board, yet last time I questioned people on it, no one could back up their assertion with a reliable link - nor indeed any sort of link at all. How the scheme came about is detailed within this piece: http://www.humanrigh...utree_Paper.pdf (and nowhere is Chuan mentioned).

I didn't say Chuan himself devised it, I said it was devised under his government, which is true and clearly stated in your article starting on page 12. What a wonderful thing it was to have government ministers back then that actually knew something about the departments they were administering. Dr. Sanguan Nitayarumphong his Chuan's Deputy Public Health Minister is largely credited with the policy development. He's a remarkable man you should read up on his history.

[kerryk]

Talking points? I think you all meet on line daily and decide what you will try and push that day. I can't for the life of me figure out any other reason you all post so much. I don't like Thaksin because he was not friendly to expats. Normally I would post negative opinions of anything his proxy government promulgated. The only reason I don't is the nonsensical and impolite way he and his government are attacked on Thai Visa. I agree with you on most things but it boggles my mind the way you are allowed to abuse figures in the current government. I can understand it on Thai TV. I watch that every night. But gosh you are supposed to be Englishmen! Gentlemen. Even if some of you have been transported.

I'm a Swedishwoman for a start, and secondly the reason I post about PTP is that they are committing state-level crimes in the country where I own a home and where most of my friends are citizens.

I feel that crimes committed against the nation of Thailand, are crimes committed against the citizens of Thailand including the many hardworking Thais who I have had the great honour of knowing for decades and whose children I have seen grow from birth to their twenties. I am a foreigner and here on short term tourist / health / ed visas, but my friends are Thai and I don't like their government being run by convicted criminals, I don't like it when my best friend is crying because she can't afford school uniforms for example. This country has huge amount of tourist revenue and the potential to be an extremely successful nation, but people like Thaksin and sister and their repulsive PTP cronies are basically sucking all the money and lifeforce out of this nation and it is not the elite who suffer it is blue collar working Thais like my friends here in Bangkok.

In the mornings I read international news on other forums and comment if I feel I can make a valid points, I read the posts on the sociology bulletin-board I have attended since 1989, and later in the morning I read Thai news on this forum.

I try to keep interested in the world around me, and I believe it is the duty of all people to express their opinions and to exercise their right to speak, lest that right be taken from us all.

I feel that Abhisit is a good man, an intelligent politician and that he has integrity and restraint, and he was working hard to implement new infrastructure and anti-corruption projects during his short time in office.

I fail to see PTP or Yingluck display any such integrity or restraint, or see them implement long-term infrastructure projects. Their main project is the absolution of Thaksin. What Thailand needs is for Thaksin to either go to jail or to disappear from the radar altogether. What PTP needs to do is make some real infrastructure-improvement and poverty-eradication policies and work TIRELESSLY to achieve those honourable goals. When they do so I will cry for joy and congratulate them.

I'm not much for tears. I teach at a school for children from broken homes and work with HIV positive orphans. If I saw a child with no school clothes I would give the child some clothes. The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand. If you knew many poor people you would know this. Sorry but your words don't ring true. Rich people like Abhisit because he offers them new ways to get richer. Poor people realize this and want Thaksin back even though he is a crook because they feel he will steal less than Abhisit's friends. Me? I like Abhisit too. I think he would be easier to bribe. But then I stay out of politics as that is a Thai issue better left to Thai people. Your written English is great BTW.

[whybother]

I'm not much for tears. I teach at a school for children from broken homes and work with HIV positive orphans. If I saw a child with no school clothes I would give the child some clothes. The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand. If you knew many poor people you would know this. Sorry but your words don't ring true. Rich people like Abhisit because he offers them new ways to get richer. Poor people realize this and want Thaksin back even though he is a crook because they feel he will steal less than Abhisit's friends. Me? I like Abhisit too. I think he would be easier to bribe. But then I stay out of politics as that is a Thai issue better left to Thai people. Your written English is great BTW.

"The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand."

No they don't.

[kerryk]

Talking points? I think you all meet on line daily and decide what you will try and push that day. I can't for the life of me figure out any other reason you all post so much. I don't like Thaksin because he was not friendly to expats. Normally I would post negative opinions of anything his proxy government promulgated. The only reason I don't is the nonsensical and impolite way he and his government are attacked on Thai Visa. I agree with you on most things but it boggles my mind the way you are allowed to abuse figures in the current government. I can understand it on Thai TV. I watch that every night. But gosh you are supposed to be Englishmen! Gentlemen. Even if some of you have been transported.

I'm a Swedishwoman for a start, and secondly the reason I post about PTP is that they are committing state-level crimes in the country where I own a home and where most of my friends are citizens.

I feel that crimes committed against the nation of Thailand, are crimes committed against the citizens of Thailand including the many hardworking Thais who I have had the great honour of knowing for decades and whose children I have seen grow from birth to their twenties. I am a foreigner and here on short term tourist / health / ed visas, but my friends are Thai and I don't like their government being run by convicted criminals, I don't like it when my best friend is crying because she can't afford school uniforms for example. This country has huge amount of tourist revenue and the potential to be an extremely successful nation, but people like Thaksin and sister and their repulsive PTP cronies are basically sucking all the money and lifeforce out of this nation and it is not the elite who suffer it is blue collar working Thais like my friends here in Bangkok.

In the mornings I read international news on other forums and comment if I feel I can make a valid points, I read the posts on the sociology bulletin-board I have attended since 1989, and later in the morning I read Thai news on this forum.

I try to keep interested in the world around me, and I believe it is the duty of all people to express their opinions and to exercise their right to speak, lest that right be taken from us all.

I feel that Abhisit is a good man, an intelligent politician and that he has integrity and restraint, and he was working hard to implement new infrastructure and anti-corruption projects during his short time in office.

I fail to see PTP or Yingluck display any such integrity or restraint, or see them implement long-term infrastructure projects. Their main project is the absolution of Thaksin. What Thailand needs is for Thaksin to either go to jail or to disappear from the radar altogether. What PTP needs to do is make some real infrastructure-improvement and poverty-eradication policies and work TIRELESSLY to achieve those honourable goals. When they do so I will cry for joy and congratulate them.

I'm not much for tears. I teach at a school for children from broken homes and work with HIV positive orphans. If I saw a child with no school clothes I would give the child some clothes. The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand. If you knew many poor people you would know this. Sorry but your words don't ring true. (I guess I don't mean not true but odd.) Schools pay for the uniforms, in case you didn't know. Rich people like Abhisit because he offers them new ways to get richer. Poor people realize this and want Thaksin back even though he is a crook because they feel he will steal less than Abhisit's friends. Me? I like Abhisit too. I think he would be easier to bribe. But then I stay out of politics as that is a Thai issue better left to Thai people. Your written English is great BTW.

[kerryk]

Talking points? I think you all meet on line daily and decide what you will try and push that day. I can't for the life of me figure out any other reason you all post so much. I don't like Thaksin because he was not friendly to expats. Normally I would post negative opinions of anything his proxy government promulgated. The only reason I don't is the nonsensical and impolite way he and his government are attacked on Thai Visa. I agree with you on most things but it boggles my mind the way you are allowed to abuse figures in the current government. I can understand it on Thai TV. I watch that every night. But gosh you are supposed to be Englishmen! Gentlemen. Even if some of you have been transported.

I'm a Swedishwoman for a start, and secondly the reason I post about PTP is that they are committing state-level crimes in the country where I own a home and where most of my friends are citizens.

I feel that crimes committed against the nation of Thailand, are crimes committed against the citizens of Thailand including the many hardworking Thais who I have had the great honour of knowing for decades and whose children I have seen grow from birth to their twenties. I am a foreigner and here on short term tourist / health / ed visas, but my friends are Thai and I don't like their government being run by convicted criminals, I don't like it when my best friend is crying because she can't afford school uniforms for example. This country has huge amount of tourist revenue and the potential to be an extremely successful nation, but people like Thaksin and sister and their repulsive PTP cronies are basically sucking all the money and lifeforce out of this nation and it is not the elite who suffer it is blue collar working Thais like my friends here in Bangkok.

In the mornings I read international news on other forums and comment if I feel I can make a valid points, I read the posts on the sociology bulletin-board I have attended since 1989, and later in the morning I read Thai news on this forum.

I try to keep interested in the world around me, and I believe it is the duty of all people to express their opinions and to exercise their right to speak, lest that right be taken from us all.

I feel that Abhisit is a good man, an intelligent politician and that he has integrity and restraint, and he was working hard to implement new infrastructure and anti-corruption projects during his short time in office.

I fail to see PTP or Yingluck display any such integrity or restraint, or see them implement long-term infrastructure projects. Their main project is the absolution of Thaksin. What Thailand needs is for Thaksin to either go to jail or to disappear from the radar altogether. What PTP needs to do is make some real infrastructure-improvement and poverty-eradication policies and work TIRELESSLY to achieve those honourable goals. When they do so I will cry for joy and congratulate them.

I'm not much for tears. I teach at a school for children from broken homes and work with HIV positive orphans. If I saw a child with no school clothes I would give the child some clothes. The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand. If you knew many poor people you would know this. Sorry but your words don't ring true. (I guess I don't mean not true but odd.) Schools pay for the uniforms, in case you didn't know. Rich people like Abhisit because he offers them new ways to get richer. Poor people realize this and want Thaksin back even though he is a crook because they feel he will steal less than Abhisit's friends. Me? I like Abhisit too. I think he would be easier to bribe. But then I stay out of politics as that is a Thai issue better left to Thai people. Your written English is great BTW.

[Nickymaster]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

If the reds are the best defense against mob power, the whole country is in BIG trouble

Agree with you

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

Again, you keep claiming that the PAD and Dems want power un-democraticaly. It is not true. Remember, if PT and the Reds stop working for Thaksin, the PAD and Dems are quiet.

Look back at what has happened the last 12 months. ONLY when PT tried to sneak-in amnesty bills and laws for

Thaksin, the Dems and PAD make noice. Be fair.

BTW, why dont you say:

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election (AND THE LAW).

Edited June 19, 2012 by Nickymaster

[Yunla]

I'm not much for tears. I teach at a school for children from broken homes and work with HIV positive orphans. If I saw a child with no school clothes I would give the child some clothes. The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand. If you knew many poor people you would know this. Sorry but your words don't ring true. Rich people like Abhisit because he offers them new ways to get richer. Poor people realize this and want Thaksin back even though he is a crook because they feel he will steal less than Abhisit's friends. Me? I like Abhisit too. I think he would be easier to bribe. But then I stay out of politics as that is a Thai issue better left to Thai people. Your written English is great BTW.

I commend your dutiful charity work. I don't have HIV but I was in a care-home in the north England for twelve years in my childhood back in the 1970s. I know about that whole picture.

RE: "if you knew many poor people you would know this" is without a doubt the most ignorant and offensive comment I have heard on this forum to date. Especially as you fire that comment off with no context whatsoever. Many poor urban people hate Thaksin. Many poor rural people who liked Thaksin in 2010 don't like him now.

Not sure what you mean about give the child some clothes. School uniforms are very expensive now under PTP. Its not like giving them some old jeans to wear. Its a cash scam imo.

I fail to see how you can support Yingluck the billionaire, and Thaksin the billionaire, then say "rich people like Abhisit". Your style of discussion is somewhat evasive, you change your position routinely and when I answer your points and questions you avoid responding to my answers and instead you make contrasting statements out of the blue.

I have already stated that Abhisit government made new policies and enacted them, policies to eradicate corruption long-term, and policies to improve the lives or the rural poor long term, and work on infrastructure long term. Those are facts which you can go and read about, the sooner the better IMO. I said PTP have not done this important infrastructure or anti-corruption work. Instead of addressing those two main important points, you respond with your opinion he is easy to bribe and he is rich. I hope you will understand that this is only your opinion, and is not relating to his in-office policies, nor the hollow policy-vacuum that is PTP regime.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Yunla

[whybother]

I'm not much for tears. I teach at a school for children from broken homes and work with HIV positive orphans. If I saw a child with no school clothes I would give the child some clothes. The majority of Thai people want Thaksin to come back to Thailand. If you knew many poor people you would know this. Sorry but your words don't ring true. (I guess I don't mean not true but odd.) Schools pay for the uniforms, in case you didn't know. Rich people like Abhisit because he offers them new ways to get richer. Poor people realize this and want Thaksin back even though he is a crook because they feel he will steal less than Abhisit's friends. Me? I like Abhisit too. I think he would be easier to bribe. But then I stay out of politics as that is a Thai issue better left to Thai people. Your written English is great BTW.

I can't see how you can think a majority of Thai people what Thaksin to come back to Thailand. People would have voted for PTP for reasons other that bringing back Thaksin, and even then they couldn't get the majority of voters voting for them.

[kerryk]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

[kerryk]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

The reds are like nuclear weapons, we don't really like their excess but the alternative of having our enemies alone with a nuclear arsenal is even more uncomfortable. And knowing the apathy of the army and the police in front of the PAD excesses, the "reds" remain our best defense against mob power.

If the reds are the best defense against mob power, the whole country is in BIG trouble

Agree with you

It all started in 2005, early 2006, when some people thought because they have the "moral high ground" (translated in plain english "the law doesn't apply to us") they could hire a gang of thugs and kick out a democratically elected government. Since then we had a military coup, a group of hooligans who occupied the government house and blocked an international airport, followed by an other group of hooligans who occupied a major retail building and later set it up on fire.

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election. Unfortunately, as long as the PAD, a group that never presented any candidate for any election, believe they can, with their mob power, influence the policy of an elected government, it won't be possible.

Then the democrats should focus on winning democratically the next election instead of banking on an outside group to hand them the power.

Again, you keep claiming that the PAD and Dems want power un-democraticaly. It is not true. Remember, if PT and the Reds stop working for Thaksin, the PAD and Dems are quiet.

Look back at what has happened the last 12 months. ONLY when PT tried to sneak-in amnesty bills and laws for

Thaksin, the Dems and PAD make noice. Be fair.

BTW, why dont you say:

The first step for a return to a functioning democracy is for all party involved to respect the result of the election (AND THE LAW).

Return is not the correct word. Thailand has never had a functioning democracy or rule of law. Check the number of coups and constitutions.

[Yunla]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

Its a shame you aren't writing that stuff as satire Its really funny.

I suppose you wouldn't be interested to know that many pink-shirts, yellow-shirts, multi-shirts in the Democracy Party voting group, are blue-collar workers who are infact poor. And they support Abhisit because he is offering policies to stop corruption and fix the infrastructure and help the poor.

For the same reason many poor normal working Thais oppose PTP, because PTP is headed by billionaires who have stolen billions from the Thai state. Its a bit offensive of you to insinuate that in Thailand all or even most poor people are too stupid to know the difference between a modern democratic reformist like Abhisit and a gang of convicted self-interested billionaire larcenists like PTP. Most poor people know the difference, and many vote with their conscience as opposed to local mob pressure and cash incentives.

As Yingluck has proved so successfully this last year, as the old saying goes, 'you can't put a silk coat on a pig'.

Thanks for the laughs anyway

Edited June 19, 2012 by Yunla

[kerryk]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

Its a shame you aren't writing that stuff as satire Its really funny.

I suppose you wouldn't be interested to know that many pink-shirts, yellow-shirts, multi-shirts in the Democracy Party voting group, are blue-collar workers who are infact poor. And they support Abhisit because he is offering policies to stop corruption and fix the infrastructure and help the poor.

For the same reason many poor normal working Thais oppose PTP, because PTP is headed by billionaires who have stolen billions from the Thai state. Its a bit offensive of you to insinuate that in Thailand all or even most poor people are too stupid to know the difference between a modern democratic reformist like Abhisit and a gang of convicted self-interested billionaire larcenists like PTP. Most poor people know the difference, and many vote with their conscience as opposed to local mob pressure and cash incentives.

As Yingluck has proved so successfully this last year, as the old saying goes, 'you can't put a silk coat on a pig'.

Thanks for the laughs anyway

The expression is, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear." Try talking to some farmers about loans for rice farming for a while. And a bunch of other stuff I can't write about here. Thais are not that stupid. Especially the ones who everyone thinks are stupid. I know, I know, I listen to the Thai people mock Yingluck's bad Thai language ability every night on TV. I know who are on both sides of the issue. I do live here full time.

[Yunla]

The expression is, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear." Try talking to some farmers about loans for rice farming for a while. And a bunch of other stuff I can't write about here. Thais are not that stupid. Especially the ones who everyone thinks are stupid. I know, I know, I listen to the Thai people mock Yingluck's bad Thai language ability every night on TV. I know who are on both sides of the issue. I do live here full time.

Thats a different expression to the one I heard in Europe, but I see your comparison. I don't live here full time because I work in Europe, but I have been visiting Thailand since 1974.

I think you like to simplify a lot,

This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people.

That stuff is stating the obvious, while your lines about 'the poor vote red and the rich vote yellow' (paraphrased) is factually totally wrong. Many poor people vote for the Democrat Party including as said my blue-collar friends in Bangkok who are poor and work hard on the breadline and vote DP and go on peaceful yellow and pink marches. If only rich people voted for Democrat Party they would have less than 1% votes in the election.

Re; poor rice farmers and why they love the PTP govt so much. According to experts quoted in the bangkokpost : "Experts are sounding warnings again about the government's rice mortgage policy, saying the scheme is ruining the local and overseas markets". Either way if you are going to hinge your argument about why PTP is so great for poor people, you should probably look in other places than rice farmers.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Yunla

[saltandpepper]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

And Taksin and sister are not rich???

[Moruya]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

They didn't elect his party.

They voted for money in one form or another.

[h90]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

They didn't elect his party.

They voted for money in one form or another.

Mostly:

They voted for money in one form AND another.

[Moruya]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

They didn't elect his party.

They voted for money in one form or another.

Mostly:

They voted for money in one form AND another.

and are rapidly getting bu@@er all

[inquisitive]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. ...

You can't possibly be that simple-minded or naive. Let me make it easy for you: If you change from an all-Western diet to an all-Asian one, and your weight goes down, could anyone with a brain say it was due to the rice? There is absolutely no way to tell from that little information. Maybe it WAS from the rice. Maybe from the cucumbers. Maybe it was because you ate less. Maybe any one of a dozen other things.

If I voted for the XYZ party, can anyone tell from that fact alone whether I chose XYZ because I liked the candidate's nose or whether it was his shoes that swayed me? Or maybe his promises, or his cash payment? You just can't tell.

So how in the heck can you come to the conclusion that ONE factor (albeit a big one at that) was the driving force for ticking a certain box on the ballot in this last election? Maybe people voted for PTP in spite of their concern that it might bring Thaksin back. There's just no way to know, and normally only the feeble minded would make such statements to other feeble brained people as you just did and expect them to accept it.

The next thing that comes to mind is that you clearly have no idea at all of what ges on during elections upcountry. I personally have followed the elections of several of my relatives upcountry. Understand that I'm not saying here that I heard something from somebody that heard something that thought he may have seen something. The people I am talking about were my relatives, spoke directly to me and my other relatives, bitched and bragged and explained the facts of life to me directly. I got to SEE with my own eyes much of this stuff. I saw the real electoral process in action and do not have to rely on reports from folks that are visitors at best. Some of my relatives were successful, and others were not - heck, in one case both opposing candidates were my relatives - but either way I got to see how the elections REALLY work. I can assure you without reservation that the only thing upcountry elections have in common with democracy is the fact that they use a ballot box.

The country has elections. That is beyond debate. What the country has never yet had is true democracy. I know that all of us at TV hope that changes. Right now Thailand has an electoral system, but it does not have democracy. Many of us have differing ideas as to how to best have true democracy come about, but NEVER try to fool yourself into thinking that the number of votes for a candidate shows support for either the candidate or their ideas. If you forget this one simple fact, you'll never truly understand what is happening here politically.

[Nickymaster]

If they didn't want Thaksin to come back they would not have elected his party. Poor people like Thaksin and rich people and Thai Visa posters like Abhisit. This situation has been allowed to get out of hand because the rich people have too much money in proportion to the poor people. You all will figure it out eventually. Ask the guy with the mass murderer for an avatar he'll fill you in.

You are a funny comedian. Is kerryk your stage name?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Nickymaster