Just admit it, you don't like me and you are often proven wrong by me - just in this topic alone you were wrong when you said one has to apply for the visa before one can go to the courts!

What I actually said was

As far as I am aware, bobrussell is correct.

You, or rather your spouse, applies and is refused. She then goes through all the UK appeals procedure being refused at every stage. Only then can she take her case to the European court.

However, I am not a lawyer and could very well be wrong.

Do you understand the parts I have emphasised?

People whose opinion I respect, people who have far more knowledge and experience than I, have said that it may not be necessary to make an application and have it refused; paully's suggestion of seeking a judicial review, for example. I have already acknowledged this earlier in the topic.

If I am shown to be wrong, I always acknowledge and accept it.

Whether you have proven me wrong in the past is a matter of opinion; but I wonder how many would agree with you.

That you ignore facts which contradict your argument and cherry pick those that support it is a matter of record; there to see in your past topics, notably your Thai citizenship one and your EEA one, for all to see who care to look.

As is your habit of starting topics to ask questions when you think you already know the answer purely so you can demonstrate that you are much more erudite and intelligent than us mere mortals. You're actually demonstrating the exact opposite.

Whether or not I like you is moot. I have never met you and have no idea about your real personality so cannot form an opinion. As for the persona you use here; you're right.

I'm done with you now. You can continue to live in your fantasy land where you can bring a case against the UK government all the way through the UK judicial system up to the ECHR without the aid of expensive lawyers.

I am, though, leaving this topic open as there have been some interesting and useful posts, from VisaPlus, Eff1n2ret, paully and others and they may have more thoughts to add; or genuine enquirers may have some questions for them.

I am, though, leaving this topic open as there have been some interesting and useful posts, from VisaPlus, Eff1n2ret, paully and others.

Thank you - that is what you should ALWAYS have done in the past and hopefully in the future. That way, freedom of speech is allowed (within fair limits - but unbaised) and there is time left for those who have very helpful posts to post. And it saves hundreds of cirucular posts where you disagree with me and I with you.

Have a good evening.