Confined To A Thai Fishing Boat For Three Years

[BigJohnnyBKK]

For all those that have gotten suckered into getting their knickers into a twist about Thailand's "human trafficking" wrt sexy underage media hype, this is the major and actually true trafficking issue here and it's great to see it finally getting some serious attention by people that have the clout to actually make things happen in this beloved little banana republic of ours.

BTW I've been a huge fan of NPR for nearly 50 years and urge everyone (especially fellow Yanks) to donate and support continued (now tiny) government funding.

I also strongly advise listening to the story rather than just reading the summary. Link

[theblether]

Seriously, it makes you wonder at the worth of a country that allows endemic slavery.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

As usual a lot can be laid at the door of government so-called "education". Such "oversights" are made much easier when the population has been brainwashed into thinking of certain ethnic/national groups as subhuman. Similar to the attitude that many farang here have adopted from the dominant central Thai (+ Thai-Chinese) wrt the people of the Isaan.

I hope we'll see increasing awareness of this issue in the west; perhaps consumer/PR pressure can be brought to bear on the right pressure points of the seafood export business, I believe nearly as large here as tourism, and certainly concentrated in fewer hands. A couple more links.

[aneliane]

As usual I don't understand what you write

And there is a lot

But I will have a look at your link and get back 2 u

cheers

[aneliane]

Slavery is not over

[BigJohnnyBKK]

As usual I don't understand what you write. And there is a lot

Glad to help with improving your reading comprehension skills; feel free to PM me with questions of meaning not answered by your usual resources.

[brit1984]

That is a very sad story indeed. Good on you for raising awareness.

It puts many "problems" people complain about into perspective.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[canuckamuck]

Apologists will have a tough time glossing this over.

[HLover]

The Deadliest Catch television show; played over and over-every day.

[DP25]

I hope we'll see increasing awareness of this issue in the west; perhaps consumer/PR pressure can be brought to bear on the right pressure points of the seafood export business

These stories first came out from the American seafood industry lobby trying to get tariffs applied to Thai seafood that was undercutting them, a goal they are still trying to achieve. While I'm sure there are cases of mistreatment and there is great improvement to be made, there is a lot of sensationalism and unverified stories as well. For the most part they are simply poorly paid but willing illegal immigrant workers, similar to the millions of illegal Mexicans and Central Americans who harvest our crops and slaughter our meat in the US. In the US it is called illegal immigration and it is considered something impossible to stop due to poverty in Latin America, in a country with lower wages than the US it is called trafficking and the media spins it a different way. The US is by far the largest human trafficking destination in the world with huge numbers of people paying coyotes to enter the US each year where many work in below standard conditions and even as slaves.

[simon43]

This problem has been going on for years, and easily ignored (out of sight, out of mind), when the victims are away at sea with their captors. I work for many years(voluntarily) to identify and combat human trafficking, with my current focus in the Ranong region, which is a major trafficking point for both labour and sex trafficking (mostly labour trafficking).

The % of trafficked men who are actually captive on these boats is not known, but what is clear from a recent Japanese survey in Ranong:

http://ir.ide.go.jp/dspace/bitstream/2344/919/1/ARRIDE_Discussion_No.257_fujita.pdf

is that many of the Burmese who work on the Thai fishing boats and in the shrimp/fish factories have been coerced into that work. Coercion and deception is especially prevalent where Burmese women are the victims of sex trafficking. Coercion ==> human trafficking (according to the legal definition of human trafficking).

Many of these workers have no other choice, due to the lack of employment opportunities within Myanmar/Burma. With the encouraging progress in the 'democratisation' of that country, we will hopefully see many Burmese leave these slave jobs and return to help their own country

Simon

Sure

[kerryk]

Good luck keeping the thread on the topic as the last two posts try to take it off into sex and the bad old USA. There are lots of other threads about sex trafficking and illegal immigration to the USA.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I hope we'll see increasing awareness of this issue in the west; perhaps consumer/PR pressure can be brought to bear on the right pressure points of the seafood export business

These stories first came out from the American seafood industry lobby trying to get tariffs applied to Thai seafood that was undercutting them, a goal they are still trying to achieve. While I'm sure there are cases of mistreatment and there is great improvement to be made, there is a lot of sensationalism and unverified stories as well. For the most part they are simply poorly paid but willing illegal immigrant workers, similar to the millions of illegal Mexicans and Central Americans who harvest our crops and slaughter our meat in the US. In the US it is called illegal immigration and it is considered something impossible to stop due to poverty in Latin America, in a country with lower wages than the US it is called trafficking and the media spins it a different way. The US is by far the largest human trafficking destination in the world with huge numbers of people paying coyotes to enter the US each year where many work in below standard conditions and even as slaves.

I'm sure this sort of thing happens in the US as well.

And it may be the case that the media is being manipulated by economic interests behind the scenes. You have to admit that the fact that the Thai industry uses these methods to keep their labor costs low isn't cricket is it. . .

However IMO neither of these factors are relevant as to whether or not these reports are actually true, and if so, whether or not efforts should be put into changing the situation.

In the US illegal immigrants come in on their own, not generally trafficked under false pretenses. They are usually free to change jobs if they like, and despite being illegal are still protected to some extent by a reasonable legal system.

If an employer were buying workers brought in by traffickers and forcibly preventing them from leaving their employment I reckon in most states the penalties would be quite harsh.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This problem has been going on for years, and easily ignored (out of sight, out of mind), when the victims are away at sea with their captors. I work for many years(voluntarily) to identify and combat human trafficking, with my current focus in the Ranong region, which is a major trafficking point for both labour and sex trafficking (mostly labour trafficking).

The % of trafficked men who are actually captive on these boats is not known, but what is clear from a recent Japanese survey in Ranong:

http://ir.ide.go.jp/....257_fujita.pdf

is that many of the Burmese who work on the Thai fishing boats and in the shrimp/fish factories have been coerced into that work. Coercion and deception is especially prevalent where Burmese women are the victims of sex trafficking. Coercion ==> human trafficking (according to the legal definition of human trafficking).

Many of these workers have no other choice, due to the lack of employment opportunities within Myanmar/Burma. With the encouraging progress in the 'democratisation' of that country, we will hopefully see many Burmese leave these slave jobs and return to help their own country

I'd like to hope that the situation on the Thai side could be changed so that even if/when Burma improves, the industries involved in these practices won't just switch over to other sources on the supply side.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The US is by far the largest human trafficking destination in the world with huge numbers of people paying coyotes to enter the US each year where many work in below standard conditions and even as slaves.

And note that illegal people smuggling is not trafficking. The latter is specifically when coercion and/or deception is used, with the transporters profiting directly from the receiver at the destination, not just migrants paying passage.

There's enough confusion with grey areas around these topics without conflating those terms that already have a reasonably precise definition.

[DP25]

The % of trafficked men who are actually captive on these boats is not known, but what is clear from a recent Japanese survey in Ranong:

http://ir.ide.go.jp/....257_fujita.pdf

is that many of the Burmese who work on the Thai fishing boats and in the shrimp/fish factories have been coerced into that work. Coercion and deception is especially prevalent where Burmese women are the victims of sex trafficking. Coercion ==> human trafficking (according to the legal definition of human trafficking).

I read some of that PDF. The men surveyed on fishing boats and in processing plants were being paid 3,000-6,000 baht per month. They were given food worth another 1,500 per month. Average time at sea on fishing boats was 30-40 days followed by 3-5 on shore. Many had changed boats and factories they had worked at or returned home to Burma and come back for more work. 3,000 per month is below minimum wage and should be prevented, but it doesn't sound like coercion for most. It is unfortunate that people in Burma make about $20 a month, if they're lucky enough to have a job at all, and 4,000 a month on a fishing boat plus free food seems like a great idea to thousands.

This is unlikely to change in the coming years. The fact is that Burma, Laos, and Cambodia are decades behind. Burma opening up isn't suddenly going to produce wages higher than Thailand, they are going to remain much lower for the foreseeable future and as such huge numbers will continue to work in Thailand. The best way to help them is to get as many Burmese legal as possible. There are over a million legal Burmese workers in Thailand, which in addition to protecting them from deportation or bribes when caught by police, grants them access to the Thai universal health care system

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I read some of that PDF. The men surveyed on fishing boats and in processing plants were being paid 3,000-6,000 baht per month. They were given food worth another 1,500 per month. Average time at sea on fishing boats was 30-40 days followed by 3-5 on shore. Many had changed boats and factories they had worked at or returned home to Burma and come back for more work. 3,000 per month is below minimum wage and should be prevented, but it doesn't sound like coercion for most. It is unfortunate that people in Burma make about $20 a month, if they're lucky enough to have a job at all, and 4,000 a month on a fishing boat plus free food seems like a great idea to thousands.

This is unlikely to change in the coming years. The fact is that Burma, Laos, and Cambodia are decades behind. Burma opening up isn't suddenly going to produce wages higher than Thailand, they are going to remain much lower for the foreseeable future and as such huge numbers will continue to work in Thailand. The best way to help them is to get as many Burmese legal as possible. There are over a million legal Burmese workers in Thailand, which in addition to protecting them from deportation or bribes when caught by police, grants them access to the Thai universal health care system

I'm strictly concerned about the willingness of the Thai authorities to protect victims of true trafficking, particularly those that are forcibly held against their will.

I recognize that may be a small fraction of even the purely illegal workers in the industry.

Being paid low wages, hard conditions etc are not the issue AFAIC as long as they're free to leave and seek better conditions elsewhere, legally or not.

And of course it's not just a Burmese problem, Cambodians as well, Bangladeshis may be next.

The fundamental problem to me seems the lack of effective regulation/enforcement by the Thai authorities of their own laws.

If their industry isn't competitive paying the (far from generous) legally required wages, then either change the law or accept the decline of the industry.

Unrealistic I know, but see if we can keep focus on how to improve the situation and to the extent it's true, even if it's only a few hundred people, IMO more likely thousands.

[canuckamuck]

These situations won't change until Thailand develops a desire for the rule of law, and freedom of press.

Two things they don't know they don't have.

[Berkshire]

I hope we'll see increasing awareness of this issue in the west; perhaps consumer/PR pressure can be brought to bear on the right pressure points of the seafood export business

These stories first came out from the American seafood industry lobby trying to get tariffs applied to Thai seafood that was undercutting them, a goal they are still trying to achieve. While I'm sure there are cases of mistreatment and there is great improvement to be made, there is a lot of sensationalism and unverified stories as well. For the most part they are simply poorly paid but willing illegal immigrant workers, similar to the millions of illegal Mexicans and Central Americans who harvest our crops and slaughter our meat in the US. In the US it is called illegal immigration and it is considered something impossible to stop due to poverty in Latin America, in a country with lower wages than the US it is called trafficking and the media spins it a different way. The US is by far the largest human trafficking destination in the world with huge numbers of people paying coyotes to enter the US each year where many work in below standard conditions and even as slaves.

Valid points.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

These situations won't change until Thailand develops a desire for the rule of law, and freedom of press.

Two things they don't know they don't have.

I believe outside pressure by powerful foreign governments, especially if concurrently by consumers and those in the private sector important to the fish export market could be effective in at least improving the situation.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Relevant link