What Was Thailand Like Years Ago

[camerata]

Camerata if you remember the original Cowboy's you must also have been to Mitch and Nam's Soul Food, no? It didn't last much beyond 77 as I recall.

I remember it well but I never actually ate there. There were several really good lan khao-tom along Sukhumvit Road that I frequented, but they're all gone now.

'Buddha sticks' were available on Patpong for 25B each back then, and No 4 was sold along Sukhumvit.

Not to mention ya ma openly available at the Grace Coffee Shop for 10 baht a pop.

Khao San Rd was just another Chinese-dominated market district. Backpackers weren't really a visible presence there till the mid 80s.

Anyone remember the infamous Thai Song Greet hotel at Hualumpong, The Atlanta (Soi 2), the Malaysia Hotel and the Blue Fox Coffee Shop in Soi Ngarm Du Phlee? All early hangouts of backpackers.

I'm not that nostalgic for those days, as what I most remember is being confused by everything. Thailand was even more full of contradictions then than it is now, in most ways.

Right. Not many contradictions now - consumerism rules!

[Florin]

Since Popeye's only started business here about 1997 we are not exactly wandering down memory lane.

I think I ate in the one on Phahonyothin, in that little shopping center which also had Villa Market in 1995...I could be wrong, though.

And yeah, compared to all these 60s/70s stories, it's definitely not a walk down memory lane...I was just reminded of some things that were and now aren't

[Gary A]

I moved over the first time in May 1991. I lived on Pattanakahn Road and some week ends would try to go downtown. On some occasions it took three hours to make the 5 or 6 kilometers. With the Sky Train and subway things are MUCH better. Since the baht was 25 to a dollar then I don't really see a lot of difference in prices. The Thai engineers I worked with wouldn't be caught dead in the Sukhumvit farang ghetto so we went to upscale Thai places. A beer in those places was 150 baht or $6 then. A bar fine was 1,500 baht. That was the prices for the Thais as well as this farang.

By November of 1991 I felt confident enough to drive up country. There were still buffaloes working in the fields and you would see VERY few TV antennas on the houses. I bought my girlfriend's mother her very first refrigerator. It was for selfish reasons. How else could I keep my beer cold? Issan people had no idea they were poor until they discovered TV. I was always impressed by how happy they were when they had so little. Highways are MUCH better now and the entire country is vastly improved. I think I'll stay.

[Thaipwriter]

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier? Or has the land always been covered with rubbish, building waste and half built houses?

Thailand has some stunning countryside but the Thai seem happy to turn it into a shithole

[Gazza]

Anyone remember the infamous Thai Song Greet hotel at Hualumpong, The Atlanta (Soi 2), the Malaysia Hotel and the Blue Fox Coffee Shop in Soi Ngarm Du Phlee? All early hangouts of backpackers.

I'm in my 16th year here and now feel like a newbie after reading some of the great posts here.

The Blue Fox Coffee Shop opp the Malaysia Hotel was a bit of a dive but offered something different from carpeted and neon-lit places elsewhere. Sadly, the Blue Fox where Charles Sobhraj got some of his victims from, is now a 7-11.

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier? Or has the land always been covered with rubbish, building waste and half built houses?

Thailand has some stunning countryside but the Thai seem happy to turn it into a shithole

Up until around '92 or '93 streets were very littered with plastic food bags. I think a BKK governor started a an anti-litter campaign which proved successful.

The crash of '97 saw a lot of building projects suddenly halt and as for building waste on fields and roadsides........have you ever seen a builder's 'skip' in Thailand?

[camerata]

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier? Or has the land always been covered with rubbish, building waste and half built houses?

Thailand has some stunning countryside but the Thai seem happy to turn it into a shithole

Let's not turn this into another Thai-bashing topic. Thais generally keep their own homes extremely clean, but they aren't socialized into the idea of civic responsibilty like we are. There have been a couple of serious efforts to tackle litter in Bangkok: former governor Chamlong Srimuang and his streetsweepers, and the Magic Eyes (Taa Wiset) campaign, which was run by some kunying or other.

Like the half-built high-rises and the Hopewell elevated road pylons, the half-built houses are probably part of the aftermath of the 1997 economic crisis.

[Nignoy]

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier? Or has the land always been covered with rubbish, building waste and half built houses?

Thailand has some stunning countryside but the Thai seem happy to turn it into a shithole

The untidiness is only a by product of modern culture reaching thailand, of course there was dirt and disease in thailand in the 60,s but then it really was a 3rd world country, then came the american occupation, when I left thailand in 1966 there were over , 150,000 US troops stationed there, turning bkk and pattaya into the new sexcentres of the world and so the physical and moral decay of thailand was initiated, over the last 40 years I have seen the same thing happen to thailand what i experienced happening to Kenya in the mid 50,s Nignoy

[buadhai]

Anyone remember the infamous Thai Song Greet hotel at Hualumpong, The Atlanta (Soi 2), the Malaysia Hotel and the Blue Fox Coffee Shop in Soi Ngarm Du Phlee? All early hangouts of backpackers.

Here's an interesting thread on rec.travel.asia which includes a long post of mine about the Thai Song Greet:

rec.travel.asia thread

[Gazza]

Something that is pretty vague to me from the early '90s is that I'm almost sure I remember taxi drivers offering me a free trip to wherever I wanted to go in Bkk......providing that they could stop at the TAT Duty Free place on Ploenchit to fill up with cheaper fuel. Does anyone remember that?

I remember a lot more smiling faces at that time too, as Mattnich said. There also seemed to be more touts as well but that was probably because I looked like a newbie to Thailand, as indeed I was.

Seeing Thai girls with anything more than a handful was rare compared to now (or maybe now I'm starting to look for that in girls, I donno ).

I used to have a lot of young Thai men walk alongside of me on tippy-toes to emulate my tallness (I'm a whopping 5' 10") for the amusement of their friends. That doesn't seem to happen anymore and sometimes now, I feel dwarfed by the tallness of some Thai men. Are Thai men becoming taller from eating too much farang food?

- Malaysia was the only country open for visa runs. So living in a village across the river from Laos was very disheartening.

- There were only 350 7-11s in the mid nineties in all of Thailand, most were in bkk, and a few only in other major cities.

- Ciggies were 12b. Rices meals were 10-12b a dish.

- I remember when M-150 used to be a nipper and called M-100. Both have always been 10b though.

[lopburi3]

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier? Or has the land always been covered with rubbish, building waste and half built houses?

Thailand has some stunning countryside but the Thai seem happy to turn it into a shithole

The untidiness is only a by product of modern culture reaching thailand, of course there was dirt and disease in thailand in the 60,s but then it really was a 3rd world country, then came the american occupation, when I left thailand in 1966 there were over , 150,000 US troops stationed there, turning bkk and pattaya into the new sexcentres of the world and so the physical and moral decay of thailand was initiated, over the last 40 years I have seen the same thing happen to thailand what i experienced happening to Kenya in the mid 50,s Nignoy

There were never more than about 50,000 US troops in Thailand (that was with all six air bases at full strength) and Pattaya was used for family R&R and was not a place for sex, even into the early 70"s. And Bangkok sure did not need anyones help. What they did provide was a highway infrastructure, money outside of Bangkok and to people other than few families that controlled all wealth previously and the first employment opportunities for women in the area. You can hate them all you want but don't try to change history to suit your personal views. Nothing is Black & White.

[gburns57au]

Also, wondering if anyone caught an article in a local magazine about the early days of Patters. I hate to be so sketchy since I can't remember the magazine or the particular guy's name who was featured in the article (Jim ??, I believe) since I was browsing it in Sunbelt Asia's lobby while waiting for my appointment back in June /July of '05/'48. I'm sure, though, that once I relate the main details of the story it'll ring someone's bell rather loudly.

This was a story about Bill Jones, a Texan born Vietnam veteran, who arrived in Pattaya in 1971.

He married Lek, a local girl, and in 1974 set up one of the first bars on Walking Street. BJ Discotheque and Coffee House. (Later known only as 'BJ Bar.')

There was not much competition in those days, only six other similar bars. Today more than 1,000.

BJ Bar was a landmark and remained at the same location till only a few years ago when he closed it down. The adjoining Soi was named after him..'Soi BJ.'

Bill was a genius at attracting customers. He could talk the talk and walk the walk. He was always known to have a folded hand towel hanging over his shoulder and a toothpick that never left the corner of his mouth. American military personal on R and R flocked to his bar at every available opportunity, and he built up a large clientel of regular drinkers from all nationalities. He was always on hand to have a conversation with each and every customer. He was generous with free drinks too.

His sister-in-laws opened other bars along Walking Street and although fairly successful, they lacked the magic of the BJ Bar.

The early BJ Bar had only an ice box. Electricity in the early days konked out most nights and the whole of the strip (Walking Street) was lit up by lanterns and candles only. Electric refrigerators had not come into being at that time and would have been wasted anyway without electricity.

Bill had trained his bar staff to dig to the bottom of the ice blocks and serve only the coldest bottles of beer.

He brought in VCR tapes of various bands from around the world that he would play on a TV positioned over his bar. He compiled many other tapes himself and these were great entertainment for his customers.

These were the days when the only shows on TV were Thai. There was no cable TV in those days.

He played the latest music over his PA system and it wasn't long before other bars started copying Bill's entertainment ideas.

He also served a mean pizza, and this was long before Pizza hut came to town.

As well as the bar, he also had a guesthouse in north Pattaya. (BJ Guesthouse) He and Lek can be found there today where they continue to run a successful business. Their good service and interesting conversation is a vibrant as ever.

We do have something in common then MM....I have known BJ for many years, My mate married a girl from his bar and brought her here, mate passed away but she is still here in Kalgoorlie. This pic was taken around 97 at the old bar, I havent seen him for a few years now.....mainly since he closed the bar as I dont usually get down to Soi 2 area at nights. You know who BJ is....I am the ugly one with the beer...

Edited January 10, 2006 by gburns57au

[Tippaporn]

Khao San Rd was just another Chinese-dominated market district. Backpackers weren't really a visible presence there till the mid 80s.

I had read somewhere sometime that what occasioned Khao San Road to evolve into a backpacker's haven was the year 2525 celebration. The Kingdom promoted an extraordinary celebration to commemorate a date that held a certain special significance among Thais. Lodging demand exceeded accommodations and the residents of Khao San, being in such close proximity to the festivities, opened up their doors to travelers to take advantage of creating short term rental income.

They ended up quartering the low budget segment of the excess tourists flooding into Bangkok. A precedent was established and it developed from there into what it has popularily become.

So the story was told.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Tippaporn

[Tywais]

I had read somewhere sometime that what occasioned Khao San Road to evolve into a backpacker's haven was the year 2525 celebration.

Is that where Zager and Evans song started?

[Tippaporn]

I had read somewhere sometime that what occasioned Khao San Road to evolve into a backpacker's haven was the year 2525 celebration.

Is that where Zager and Evans song started?

Maybe the song is what produced the significance?

[camerata]

Here's an interesting thread on rec.travel.asia which includes a long post of mine about the Thai Song Greet:

rec.travel.asia thread

Nice one. Just as I remember it (also in 1977), except that I got a knock on the door in the middle of the night. People knocking on the door seemed to be pretty normal in that area. I remember soon after checking in at the nearby Station Hotel a guy knocked on my door and the conversation went something like this:

HIM: You want girl?

ME: No.

HIM: You want boy?

ME: No.

HIM: You want heroin?

ME: NO!

Seeing Thai girls with anything more than a handful was rare compared to now (or maybe now I'm starting to look for that in girls, I donno ).

I think you're right. Maybe Western food is a factor but also in the past 3-4 years Thai females seem to have dropped their inhibitions about showing cleavage and wearing skin-tights tops or push-up bras. In the old days, respectable office girls wore flouncy white blouses that concealed everything - now they let it all hang out, or at least stand out.

Edited January 10, 2006 by camerata

[Nordlys]

The only place I knew of to get a decent pizza was Mario's in Gaysorn. Run by a family who lived in the back. We were often the only customers.

I think I know this pizzeria. It was located behind what is now a Holiday Inn Bangkok (formerly President Hotel) and they served genuine Italian pizza rather than thick NY style pizza if I remember correctly.

From the Golden Temple you could only see about 4 buildings higher than 4-5 storeys: Dusit, the just-built BKK Bank, Chokchai Bldg, and one I forget.

That's right. Chokchai Building was the tallest building in Thailand then and Dusit Thani Hotel was the 2nd. Does anybody know what happened to Chokchai Bldg? I don't recall seeing it there on sukhumvit anymore since I came back from studying/working in US and Japan, although I forgot the exact location. Has it been demolished?

No mobiles phones, Internet, etc. When I had to make the rare long distance call I would go down to the Central Post Office.

Right. Central Post Office on New Road was the only place in Bangkok you could make an international call then.

As someone noted earlier, there was a lot of YOU YOU, HEY YOU wherever you went. Fortunately the novelty is over and I rarely hear that. That was very annoying.

Whenever a passerby spotted me on the street and knew I was Japanese, they would yell at me "ajinomoto!". Somehow that was the most recognized Japanese company/brand name at the time in Thailand, not Toyota, Honda or Sony.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Nordlys

[Tippaporn]

Swelters, take a look at the picture entitled: "The daily tram - August 31, 2004

Bangkok tram route #4, circa 1964-65" at the tram site: http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/dailytram.shtml

You'll have to scroll maybe 3/4's of the way down. There's a jeep in the photo that looks identical to the one you posted. Was that you by chance?? Time frame is about a year to two later than your pic. Wouldn't that be coincidental??

I'd post the pic here but believe it's against board rules if copyrighted.

[qualtrough]

Camerata if you remember the original Cowboy's you must also have been to Mitch and Nam's Soul Food, no? It didn't last much beyond 77 as I recall.

I am pretty certain Mitch and Nam's was open until at least 1981. I know I ate there several times up to that year. I remember they served corn bread and served 'soul food.'

[qualtrough]

Anyone remember the infamous Thai Song Greet hotel at Hualumpong, The Atlanta (Soi 2), the Malaysia Hotel and the Blue Fox Coffee Shop in Soi Ngarm Du Phlee? All early hangouts of backpackers.

1980-I checked into the Thai Song Greet once but it was so grungy I ended up not staying there. I think it was a former opium den-at least that is what I heard. Stayed at the Atlanta for a few days with a shared bathroom arrangement. Was dumpy then and had a reputation for stitching up foreigners with planted drugs but I hear that it has now been fixed up. Has an interesting history-German owner, etc. Malaysia and Ngamduplee was THE backpacker area in the late 70s-early 80s. Malaysia had a bulletin board for travellers to leave messages on. Blue Fox and another restaurant nearby had some passable Western food and served the backpacker/Malaysia hotel community.

Anybody remember the coup in, was it 1981? Three big events occurred in one day I believe. Reagan was shot, there was a highjacking at Don Muang, and the coup. The city was surrounded by rebel troops and for a while the situation was pretty hairy. I remember seeing a spotter plane circling the city for hours, and troop carriers coming in around the Makkasan area. The different forces wore some different colored bands or some such so they could be distinguished. When it happened most businesses shut up and people went home early. The Bangkok Post printed at least one special extra edition. I didn't understand much Thai then so it was hard to know what was going on. Spent most of the time playing cards and drinking with some friends.

[Boon Mee]

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier?

Nope...

Edited January 11, 2006 by Boon Mee

[camerata]

Whenever a passerby spotted me on the street and knew I was Japanese, they would yell at me "ajinomoto!".

[sabaijai]

Anyone remember the infamous Thai Song Greet hotel at Hualumpong, The Atlanta (Soi 2), the Malaysia Hotel and the Blue Fox Coffee Shop in Soi Ngarm Du Phlee? All early hangouts of backpackers.

I'm in my 16th year here and now feel like a newbie after reading some of the great posts here.

The Blue Fox Coffee Shop opp the Malaysia Hotel was a bit of a dive but offered something different from carpeted and neon-lit places elsewhere. Sadly, the Blue Fox where Charles Sobhraj got some of his victims from, is now a 7-11.

Question for the guys and girls who have been here a long time:

Was Thailand ever tidier? Or has the land always been covered with rubbish, building waste and half built houses?

Thailand has some stunning countryside but the Thai seem happy to turn it into a shithole

Up until around '92 or '93 streets were very littered with plastic food bags. I think a BKK governor started a an anti-litter campaign which proved successful.

The crash of '97 saw a lot of building projects suddenly halt and as for building waste on fields and roadsides........have you ever seen a builder's 'skip' in Thailand?

Yes after Ta Wiset (Magic Eyes) started up their anti-litter campaign, general city tidiness improved a lot. I see much less litter in most large cities in Thailand than 25 years ago.

For comparison's sake, Mexico and most of Latin America (Argentina & Chile are exceptions) are far worse than Thailand when it comes to litter and rubbish disposal.

[sabaijai]

More random hotel memories.

The hotel I stayed at my first couple nights in Bangkok in March 77 was the Sakol Hotel. It was more or less behind the National Stadium. Years later I went back to look for it, but it was gone. I've asked many Thais about it, no one remembers it. Can't find any mention of it in old guidebooks either (LP wasn't around then; I used the Student Guide to Asia published by the Australian Students Union). Anyone here remember the Sakol?

The Erawan Hotel was classic, sorry to see it demolished and replaced by the Grand Hyatt. The old Erawan tea shop was a favourite meeting place for hi-so Thais. In its memory, the GH recently opened a new Erawan Tea Shop furnished with faux antiques.

The Opera Hotel was famous for its poolside cheeseburgers and 100B rooms. I remember the Indra Regent was around in 1977. I used to stay at a friend's house on Soi Hasadin, almost opp the Indra back then. Don't remember how many stories it stood though it was pretty big, maybe third after Chokchai and Dusit? It was considered an upscale place in those days. There were several excellent night markets in Pratunam back then, all of them gone.

I first stayed at the Nit Charoensuk Hotel on Khao San Rd in 1981, great spot to be then. There were two Thai-Chinese hotels on the street at the time. I forget the name of the other one, which renovated and changed names to Khao San Palace around 1990 - anyone remember the original name? The next year, 1982, I noticed two guesthouses on a soi off Khao San, Bonny and Tum. I stayed at Bonny. Those places might have opened before 1982 (2525) but that was the first time I saw them, so perhaps Tippaporn was right. The celebration that year was the Bangkok bicentennial by the way. I still have a car sticker from then.

I never stayed at the Thai Song Greet, however spent a few nights at the Hualamphong Hotel nearby. Stayed a few times at the Atlanta (70s) and Malaysia (80s).

Another random memory: Watching TV at the house of a Thai family in Chainat in April 77, when suddenly the screen went black for a couple of minutes. When the broadcast was restored, there were a couple of army generals on TV explaining that there had been a coup d'etat and the military was now in control. That particular coup didn't last the day, so has gone down in history as an 'attempted coup'. I remember feeling a little panicked, and looking at my Thai hosts, who merely shrugged their shoulders and said 'mai pen rai'.

[Tippaporn]

Has anyone looked at the trolley photos at this link?

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/dailytram.shtml

I don't see litter anywhere, and along with the absence of street vendors it looks very odd.

Edit: Since those photos were from the mid-sixties perhaps it's because it was an era before plastic bags were so prevalent and prior to disposable consumerism.

Edited January 11, 2006 by Tippaporn

[camerata]

I remember the Indra Regent was around in 1977. I used to stay at a friend's house on Soi Hasadin, almost opp the Indra back then. Don't remember how many stories it stood though it was pretty big, maybe third after Chokchai and Dusit? It was considered an upscale place in those days. There were several excellent night markets in Pratunam back then, all of them gone.

The Indra Regent was my first hotel in Thailand, travelling with a tour (it was cheaper that way) on the way to other places in Asia. I'll never forget the sign in the lobby that said, "No solicitors allowed!"

But generally I stayed at the Crown Hotel, still going strong on Sukhumvit Soi 29, for short trips and 300-baht-per-month bungalows in Soi 22 for longer stays.

Another random memory: Watching TV at the house of a Thai family in Chainat in April 77, when suddenly the screen went black for a couple of minutes. When the broadcast was restored, there were a couple of army generals on TV explaining that there had been a coup d'etat and the military was now in control. That particular coup didn't last the day, so has gone down in history as an 'attempted coup'. I remember feeling a little panicked, and looking at my Thai hosts, who merely shrugged their shoulders and said 'mai pen rai'.

This was the general attitude. My very first memory of Thailand is getting off the plane around 11.30pm and waiting a long time in the tour bus. Eventually, a beautiful woman got onboard, introduced herself as our tour guide and with a big smile said, "We had a revolution in Thailand today, but everything is all right now."

The streets were completely deserted and I remember thinking, "<deleted>? This is the legendary Bangkok?"

[Neeranam]

Did anyone see 'The Clash' playing in Bangkok in 1977?

Was it good?

They stayed on Petburi road and took a photo for Combat Rock behind it.

[lopburi3]

Believe Sakol hotel, if on the North side of Rama 1 across from National Stadium was the only hotel in that area and had an upstairs after hours watering hole in the early 70's. Recall a police raid one night that required me to escort several ladies or they would have been arrested. I never stayed in hotel (Golden Palace Soi 1 was my haunt). The Erawan was really a government guest house rather than a commercial hotel and just became too expensive to maintain I suspect. The old Railway Hotel in Hua Hin was more fortunate.

For coups martial music was usually the first clue.

[camerata]

For coups martial music was usually the first clue.

Or the sound of helicopters overhead.

Did anyone see 'The Clash' playing in Bangkok in 1977?

No, but I did see John Paul Young at Thammasat Uni and a great concert by UB40 at Huamark Stadium in the 80s.

[Tywais]

Came across these pictures of Pattaya, one in 1968 and the other now. See if you can count the differences.

[Tippaporn]

OMG! From pristine to a megatropolis. It's almost scary.