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Posted
The Viet Cong were very active in NE Thailand. They killed monks, teachers and puyaibans (sound familiar?), blew up bridges and destroyed villages who would not submit to them.

I don't think there were any VC in NE Thailand then (or ever). A few Vietnamese cadres (also Lao and Chinese) perhaps, but she's probably referring to Thai communists, specifically the People's Liberation Army of Thailand, whose ranks grew to around 10,000 armed insurgents during their late 70s peak.

There were no vietcong in ne thailand in the early 60,s but there were lots of Viet minh indoctrinated pathet laos and their sympathisers operating all along the little muddy from Chaiburi down to south of ubon, the mukdaharn area was a favourite place for them to cross , hence the US sneaky pete outfit at Phu Mhu which later became a radar and radio listening post, this is all documented in Britains Small wars, Nignoy

Interesting. You guys might have information more specific than I do. I'm not an expert in this area. I'll ask my wife again about this, and how the locals referred to them. She describes them as outsiders. They came into villages and and took over, using terrorism. Are VC specifically Vietnamese reporting to Ho Chi Mihn, as opposed to other types of communists?

Bryan

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Posted
The Viet Cong were very active in NE Thailand. They killed monks, teachers and puyaibans (sound familiar?), blew up bridges and destroyed villages who would not submit to them.

I don't think there were any VC in NE Thailand then (or ever). A few Vietnamese cadres (also Lao and Chinese) perhaps, but she's probably referring to Thai communists, specifically the People's Liberation Army of Thailand, whose ranks grew to around 10,000 armed insurgents during their late 70s peak.

She would definitely be referring to the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) who were mainly armed and financed by the Chinese.The CPT was not defeated by the Thai armed forces and police but made irrelevant by the Thai/Chinese accord under Kukrit Pramoj.If anything the CPT had the upper hand over the admittedly ineffective though often brutal Thai (particularly ISOC) authorities.The CPT were no angels either but it is a complete distortion of history to deny they didn't have very significant support among villagers.The central Bangkok authorities made a difficult situation a great deal worse through their highhandeness, racism and incompetence.The Chinese volteface saved the bacon for the Thai elite.But the same racism and incompetence can still be seen today in the traetment of the South.I am not by any means saying that most Thais would have been better off if the CPT had prevailed.They wouldn't.

Posted

There was no hint as far as I could ever hear or see of organized political resistance to the Sarit government in or around the mountains to the south of Korat where I lived 1963-65. I understood that this area had been settled by new Thai/Lao people in the early mid 20th century. Nor did I hear that there was significant communist activity in Isan in general during that time, though subsequent information suggests otherwise.

Posted (edited)

Good info, and thanks everyone for the clarifications. I think there was a lot of activity along the Mekong, especially in Mukdahan province, as was mentioned in an earlier post. We are in Kalasin, where there were a few attacks, but not as many as in Mukdahan. It's been said that the Thai government was neglectful of the Isaan people and therefore the Isaan was easily infiltrated by groups like the CPT. As a result, money from the Thai gov't, as well as the American gov't came pouring in to build good highways and other improvements; for defense and to try and "win back" the Isaan people. There are some parallels between the situations in Isaan in the 60'/70's and the present situation in the south. Lets hope there will be some resolution to the problems in the south, as there was in the Isaan.

Bryan

Edited by Bryan in Isaan
Posted
Good info, and thanks everyone for the clarifications. I think there was a lot of activity along the Mekong, especially in Mukdahan province, as was mentioned in an earlier post. We are in Kalasin, where there were a few attacks, but not as many as in Mukdahan. It's been said that the Thai government was neglectful of the Isaan people and therefore the Isaan was easily infiltrated by groups like the CPT. As a result, money from the Thai gov't, as well as the American gov't came pouring in to build good highways and other improvements; for defense and to try and "win back" the Isaan people. There are some parallels between the situations in Isaan in the 60'/70's and the present situation in the south. Lets hope there will be some resolution to the problems in the south, as there was in the Isaan.

Bryan

59 squadron Royal engineers built roads and bridges in the Ubon , Mukdaharn area between 1962 and 1968, brought the first power and new wells to many villages in the area,only americans in the Muk area at that time was the sneaky pete outfit up on Phu mhu, were plenty of USAAF and RAAF in Ubon, there were the odd groups of special forces in the area were also boys from bradbury lines enjoying the wildlife too :o nignoy
Posted
Being a relative newcomer to Thailand (2001) I was curious as to what life was like here back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and how it has changed. I'm sure there are aspects which have improved and others which haven't.

What was the redlight district on Sukhumvit like? Have processes such as visas, WPs and starting a business improved? Has the Thai attitude towards farang changed at all? How was it different before computers and mobile phones? Was it easier or more difficult to find work or stay in country? What was it like in the sticks? Were there as many farang here? What were prices for Chang, massage, general living? Did western money still stretch as far?

Were the women more beautiful?

Since quite a few TV members stretch back a few years, or eons, I thought there would be some very interesting stories to be told and heard.

The pre-thaksin period was a lot better.

It was the time where restaurants didn’t have to close at 2.00

The Thais where smiling more and enjoying life…having sanook!

Street vendors and street restaurants where open on Mondays

Thai songs that contained messages other than RAK TUR was still allowed

The word HUB was not in use other than in airports

Taxi drivers didn’t have to wear a shirt

…or am I confusing this with Iraq

Posted

....

As a result, money from the Thai gov't, as well as the American gov't came pouring in to build good highways and other improvements; for defense and to try and "win back" the Isaan people....

59 squadron Royal engineers built roads and bridges in the Ubon , Mukdaharn area between 1962 and 1968, brought the first power and new wells to many villages in the area,only americans in the Muk area at that time was the sneaky pete outfit up on Phu mhu, were plenty of USAAF and RAAF in Ubon, there were the odd groups of special forces in the area were also boys from bradbury lines enjoying the wildlife too :o nignoy

The inlaws tell us the highway between Kalasin and SakonNakon was built with the help of American engineers. That's the one that goes up the hill with all the switchbacks. I'm not sure about the roads around Muk.

Bryan

Posted
<snip> there were the odd groups of special forces in the area <snip>

Nignoy, I'd be curious to know what role the special forces were playing in Thailand in the mid-60's. I've tried to get some info on the Internet but came up dry. If you happen to know, that is.

Posted

Back when I was a youngman growing up in a small village in the northern part of Thailand, I remember being extremely "respectful" to all the elderly people. No matter where we go, what we did or who we met, respecting others regardless of their society status was the mos important thing my Gradmother taught us.

Today, Respect for elderly or anyone else for that matter is hard to find. In the US, Europe or anywhere else I've been, repect seems to be a strange word in the vacabularies which noone recognized anymore, including Thailand.

I guess the biggest change for me in Thailand is the word "Respect". Make sense?

Posted

<snip> there were the odd groups of special forces in the area <snip>

Nignoy, I'd be curious to know what role the special forces were playing in Thailand in the mid-60's. I've tried to get some info on the Internet but came up dry. If you happen to know, that is.

They were doing lots of hearts and minds, in the villages both sides of the border, gathering information, there was a permanent officer from 22 attached to Operation Crown
Posted (edited)

In regard to respect, I have the feeling from living in a small moo bahn for a year or so starting in 63 that the local culture was more stable and structured. From recent time in comparable villages I think that there are now more loutish (heavy drinking among the men) and mafia-like activities, with connection to regional and perhaps national political power. And of course not nearly as much flow of pretty girls out of the village and into changwats and BKK. So there may be more reason to fear rather than respect many local men. The pooyai bahn, for example, seems now to be effectively replaced by a slicker type of official who derives respect from his expensive pickup rather than his wisdom or good deeds. I think I mentioned it before but the book "The Far Country" gives a good albeit sentimental portrait of the Kalasin area in the late 50s.

Edited by Swelters
Posted

Hi,

I think the topic was about something differnet but okay.... :o

I´m quite young and my first visit in thailand was in 1990. In this year 1 USD was worth 27,5 Thai Baht and I got scared when the bus drove along the sukhumvit Road. I saw all the slums outside and I was really not sure that this was a good idea. But after only 1 night in pattaya, well... I enjoyed my stay and until now I always came back. Not to pattaya, but general to thailand.

Its a beautiful country even when we, the tourists destroy every small place slowly. First there is something like a hidden paradise, then after the first one saw it he tell all his friends, and after a view years there is a meridien hotel there..... :D Yeah, life is like that.

So what can I tell you about thailand befor....

The girls in the bar take care the costumer better befor.. little bit more innocent, sweeter and less professionel. But to be ownest,.. now I like it professionel. I dont like this stupid sweet thing any more, because I know its not the truth.

The hotels,... well now its much easyer to get a good affordable 4 or 5 star hotel since there where so many around everywhere.

And about traditional things... its still thailand even if we have 2006/2549 now :D

Posted
....

I think I mentioned it before but the book "The Far Country" gives a good albeit sentimental portrait of the Kalasin area in the late 50s.

I am curious about that book, "The Far Country". Do you have an authors name, ID number or anything? I might want to track down a copy. Another decent one is "Child of the Northeast" (I don't have the rest of the info at the moment). It is a story about a family in a village back in the 30's or 40's. It is centered around the Roi Et area. Part of it takes place around the Chi river.

Bryan

Posted

....

I think I mentioned it before but the book "The Far Country" gives a good albeit sentimental portrait of the Kalasin area in the late 50s.

I am curious about that book, "The Far Country". Do you have an authors name, ID number or anything? I might want to track down a copy. Another decent one is "Child of the Northeast" (I don't have the rest of the info at the moment). It is a story about a family in a village back in the 30's or 40's. It is centered around the Roi Et area. Part of it takes place around the Chi river.

Bryan

It is called "The Far Province" by Francis Cripps and from memory was published about 1964.I am afraid it has been out of print for some time.I imagine the Neilson Hays library in Bangkok has a copy you could have a look at on your next visit.Actually its not a particularly sentimental book but certainly it is a heartfelt account from a intelligent and sensitive young Englishman (who had just graduated from Cambridge) who grew to love the North east and the Isarn people.Though I have never met him Cripps is still around, based in the UK though visiting Thailand often, and is a well respected academic.

Posted (edited)

....

I think I mentioned it before but the book "The Far Country" gives a good albeit sentimental portrait of the Kalasin area in the late 50s.

I am curious about that book, "The Far Country". Do you have an authors name, ID number or anything? I might want to track down a copy. Another decent one is "Child of the Northeast" (I don't have the rest of the info at the moment). It is a story about a family in a village back in the 30's or 40's. It is centered around the Roi Et area. Part of it takes place around the Chi river.

Bryan

It is called "The Far Province" by Francis Cripps and from memory was published about 1964.I am afraid it has been out of print for some time.I imagine the Neilson Hays library in Bangkok has a copy you could have a look at on your next visit.Actually its not a particularly sentimental book but certainly it is a heartfelt account from a intelligent and sensitive young Englishman (who had just graduated from Cambridge) who grew to love the North east and the Isarn people.Though I have never met him Cripps is still around, based in the UK though visiting Thailand often, and is a well respected academic.

I've searched the web and it seems there may be multiple sources if you have a purchase in mind, Bryan. Here's a link to a second hand on-line book store in the UK.

http://www.booklovers.co.uk/dealerbrowse.a...=Books-on.co.uk

The book is listed at 6 quid.

Sharston Books lists it at 5 quid.

http://www.sharstonbooks.com/onlinebooksho...mrk=1&rcrdcnt=1

Edited by Tippaporn
Posted
Hi,

I think the topic was about something differnet but okay.... :o

I´m quite young and my first visit in thailand was in 1990. In this year 1 USD was worth 27,5 Thai Baht and I got scared when the bus drove along the sukhumvit Road. I saw all the slums outside and I was really not sure that this was a good idea. But after only 1 night in pattaya, well... I enjoyed my stay and until now I always came back. Not to pattaya, but general to thailand.

Its a beautiful country even when we, the tourists destroy every small place slowly. First there is something like a hidden paradise, then after the first one saw it he tell all his friends, and after a view years there is a meridien hotel there..... :D Yeah, life is like that.

So what can I tell you about thailand befor....

The girls in the bar take care the costumer better befor.. little bit more innocent, sweeter and less professionel. But to be ownest,.. now I like it professionel. I dont like this stupid sweet thing any more, because I know its not the truth.

The hotels,... well now its much easyer to get a good affordable 4 or 5 star hotel since there where so many around everywhere.

And about traditional things... its still thailand even if we have 2006/2549 now :D

Thanks for you're contribution, Wolfgang. And welcome to Thai Visa.

Not sure who you were referring to in your first statement. I don't see it.

Posted

<snip> there were the odd groups of special forces in the area <snip>

Nignoy, I'd be curious to know what role the special forces were playing in Thailand in the mid-60's. I've tried to get some info on the Internet but came up dry. If you happen to know, that is.

Try finding a copy of Roger Warner's book Back Fire, which focuses on legendary spook Bill Lair who ran a fairly successful resistance movement in Laos until the US generals in Saigon interfered. Lair was a spook who had gone native in that he spoke fluent Thai and had a Thai wife. He was also a close friend of His Majesty. All in all a very interesting book about a not-so-ugly American.

To the best of my knowledge there were never any "VC" units or even Pathet Lao units active in Thailand. There were "Chinese communists" down south and up in the hills in the north. The Thai government once ran a very good anti-communist program, aided by events in the People Republic, to take the steam out of this particular insurgency. Up north the government simply began to take an interest up in the hills where the "commies" were active and made efforts to establish a sense of Thai identity amongst the minority hill people by building roads and schools. (My wife was a pre-school teacher in a minority village in the hills under a program run by the Thai Social Welfare Department, orignially funded by the CIA, and based upon the American Head Start program.) The communists down south were isolated in the deep jungles, neither welcomed by the Thais or the Malays, and eventually handed in their weapons to Thai officials in a public ceremony back in the 1980s. Of course while the government was dealing effectively with the small true communist insurgency, they were at the same time labeling every critic of the government, from Thai labor leaders to conservative monarchists like Sulak Srivaraksa, as communists. The nadir of this madness was the monk Khittbutto declaring that killing a communist was not a sin (mai baap).

Posted

<snip> there were the odd groups of special forces in the area <snip>

Nignoy, I'd be curious to know what role the special forces were playing in Thailand in the mid-60's. I've tried to get some info on the Internet but came up dry. If you happen to know, that is.

Try finding a copy of Roger Warner's book Back Fire, which focuses on legendary spook Bill Lair who ran a fairly successful resistance movement in Laos until the US generals in Saigon interfered. Lair was a spook who had gone native in that he spoke fluent Thai and had a Thai wife. He was also a close friend of His Majesty. All in all a very interesting book about a not-so-ugly American.

To the best of my knowledge there were never any "VC" units or even Pathet Lao units active in Thailand. There were "Chinese communists" down south and up in the hills in the north. The Thai government once ran a very good anti-communist program, aided by events in the People Republic, to take the steam out of this particular insurgency. Up north the government simply began to take an interest up in the hills where the "commies" were active and made efforts to establish a sense of Thai identity amongst the minority hill people by building roads and schools. (My wife was a pre-school teacher in a minority village in the hills under a program run by the Thai Social Welfare Department, orignially funded by the CIA, and based upon the American Head Start program.) The communists down south were isolated in the deep jungles, neither welcomed by the Thais or the Malays, and eventually handed in their weapons to Thai officials in a public ceremony back in the 1980s. Of course while the government was dealing effectively with the small true communist insurgency, they were at the same time labeling every critic of the government, from Thai labor leaders to conservative monarchists like Sulak Srivaraksa, as communists. The nadir of this madness was the monk Khittbutto declaring that killing a communist was not a sin (mai baap).

Pathet laos and some form of khmer insurgents frequently crossed the little muddy between Muk and Ubon , we were doing a bit of hearts and minds in a village near Muang Kao, after we left the Puyai ban and his family were killed by the pathet laos, a young british soldier was killed in the area a few weeks later,maybe the ambush I ran in into on 29/11/1965 in which my oppo got killed was just a dream, as I mentioned earlier in the thread have a look in britains small wars. Nignoy
Posted

I have just read through all 12 pages of reples! I must say most were pretty accurate. I first came to Thailand with Philco-Ford Corp. in 1967 and was working in Korat and stayed in SEA working until 1976 when I went on to work in the ME and Europe but always managed to get back to Thailand. I've retired here in 1998 and live in Bangkok. Several posters mentioned BJ. Bill and I worked together in Nha Trang in 1969. He bought his bar from Bill Snitzler,I guess in 1971, whn it was an enclosed place. Then the "open air" type places started up and BJ cnged his place. He may have been the first but Rick Lopez and his wife Honey got the open air places kindof started when they had "Honeys Hot Dogs" stand across from BJ's.

Nignoy mentioned 150,000 US troops here in 1966. I dont know where he got those figures but they are certainly wrong. I dont think there were ever more then 50,000 GIs here. In 1972 When I worked for FEC we had a commsite in Lop Buri that we maintained for the US Special forces. Many SF guys were stationed thereat that time but dont know what they were up to.

They were certainly the "good old days" but I'm sure new people just arriving here now will look back on 2006 as the good old days too.

Posted

There is a copy of the Cripps book in the Siam Society library.

Roger Warner's book "Back Fire " is wonderful indeed but you should get the updated edition which is retitled "Shooting at the Moon." Still in print, I think.

Spaniel, do you remember a bar in Korat called "Little Thai Home"?

Let me add that the term "ugly American" comes from a semifictional book of that title that was a best seller in the US in about 1960, it was about Thailand and attempted to introduce a visionary portrait of a new kind of American diplomacy in which Americans abroad smiled at children and chatted with little old ladies in their native tongue. The great irony is that the hero who did these wonderful things was "the ugly American" because he didn't fit the mold of the traditional diplomat, so the original ugly american was actually the good guy.

I think it was partly based on a CIA guy named Langdon(?) who might have spent time with the BRits in Malaya before coming to SE Asia.

Posted (edited)

The HQ of the CPT was located in Phitsanulok province and til this day there is still a museum there and remnants of the offices, bunkers etc....

It can be argued that the CPT never really were a threat to the country. Since the fall of the CPT in 1981 at the hands of PM Gen Prem Titsunalonda (who it could be said is Thailand's best ever PM) the stories which have emerged have shown a much tamer side to the CPT than was originally thought.

Quite obviously, most of the CPT members who run off to to the jungles and joined the party after the disillusionment of, firstly Oct 73 and then 1976 - did so because there was no other political alternative.

As has been mentioned, this period of Thai history saw a witch-hunt similar to that of MacCarthy's. The student activists of the era therefore, who after being brandished Communists - just became that exact thing. A lot of these CPT leaders who include Ajarn Thirayuth of Thammasart University a (harsh critic of Thaksin's) are, til this day respected teachers/politicians etc... They too, argue this 'tamer' side to the CPT.

During the MacCarthy style Witch Hunt even one of Thailand's most respected monks The Late Venerable Buddhadasa Bhikku of 'Wat Suan Mokkhe' did not escape the threat of imprisonment for his teachings.

I was first back in Thailand way back in 91 and not before long i was one of those Farang running away from the turmoil on Ratchadamnoern and Black May.

Politically, Thailand hasn't really gotten any better.

Ever since the revolution of 32, it can be quite simply said that the nation has never truly seen a democracy. The power has quite simply changed hands from one form to another ie.. The Navy, The Police, The Army and now we see it in the hands of businessmen.

Generally though, i have been pleased with how Thailand has changed. The country also attracts a lot more foreigners which a true passionate interest in the country and not just it's sex-industry than it used to.

When i first came here Thailand was famed for one thing and that was its 'bar-girls' now i am delighted to see that the country has become famous for other its 'boxing', 'food', 'culture', 'temples' blah blah.... this is a very positive thing.

Edited by stevesuphan
Posted
The HQ of the CPT was located in Phitsanulok province and til this day there is still a museum there and remnants of the offices, bunkers etc....

It can be argued that the CPT never really were a threat to the country. Since the fall of the CPT in 1981 at the hands of PM Gen Prem Titsunalonda (who it could be said is Thailand's best ever PM) the stories which have emerged have shown a much tamer side to the CPT than was originally thought.

Quite obviously, most of the CPT members who run off to to the jungles and joined the party after the disillusionment of, firstly Oct 73 and then 1976 - did so because there was no other political alternative.

As has been mentioned, this period of Thai history saw a witch-hunt similar to that of MacCarthy's. The student activists of the era therefore, who after being brandished Communists - just became that exact thing. A lot of these CPT leaders who include Ajarn Thirayuth of Thammasart University a (harsh critic of Thaksin's) are, til this day respected teachers/politicians etc... They too, argue this 'tamer' side to the CPT.

During the MacCarthy style Witch Hunt even one of Thailand's most respected monks The Late Venerable Buddhadasa Bhikku of 'Wat Suan Mokkhe' did not escape the threat of imprisonment for his teachings.

I was first back in Thailand way back in 91 and not before long i was one of those Farang running away from the turmoil on Ratchadamnoern and Black May.

Politically, Thailand hasn't really gotten any better.

Ever since the revolution of 32, it can be quite simply said that the nation has never truly seen a democracy. The power has quite simply changed hands from one form to another ie.. The Navy, The Police, The Army and now we see it in the hands of businessmen.

Generally though, i have been pleased with how Thailand has changed. The country also attracts a lot more foreigners which a true passionate interest in the country and not just it's sex-industry than it used to.

When i first came here Thailand was famed for one thing and that was its 'bar-girls' now i am delighted to see that the country has become famous for other its 'boxing', 'food', 'culture', 'temples' blah blah.... this is a very positive thing.

Your posting is in my view profoundly muddled.I will respond on only one point.General Prem is an honourable and decent man and I am sure he would be the first to repudiate your claim that the CPT fell at his hands.The CPT fell because the rug was pulled from underneath it by Beijing.For heavens sake do some reading before spouting off this kind of nonsense.

Posted (edited)
Pathet laos and some form of khmer insurgents frequently crossed the little muddy between Muk and Ubon , we were doing a bit of hearts and minds in a village near Muang Kao, after we left the Puyai ban and his family were killed by the pathet laos, a young british soldier was killed in the area a few weeks later,maybe the ambush I ran in into on 29/11/1965 in which my oppo got killed was just a dream, as I mentioned earlier in the thread have a look in britains small wars. Nignoy
Please excuse my ignorance. What does "doing a bit of hearts and minds" mean, and how come the Brits were involved in "operations" in Thailand? :o Edited by blabbel
Posted (edited)

The HQ of the CPT was located in Phitsanulok province and til this day there is still a museum there and remnants of the offices, bunkers etc....

It can be argued that the CPT never really were a threat to the country. Since the fall of the CPT in 1981 at the hands of PM Gen Prem Titsunalonda (who it could be said is Thailand's best ever PM) the stories which have emerged have shown a much tamer side to the CPT than was originally thought.

Quite obviously, most of the CPT members who run off to to the jungles and joined the party after the disillusionment of, firstly Oct 73 and then 1976 - did so because there was no other political alternative.

As has been mentioned, this period of Thai history saw a witch-hunt similar to that of MacCarthy's. The student activists of the era therefore, who after being brandished Communists - just became that exact thing. A lot of these CPT leaders who include Ajarn Thirayuth of Thammasart University a (harsh critic of Thaksin's) are, til this day respected teachers/politicians etc... They too, argue this 'tamer' side to the CPT.

During the MacCarthy style Witch Hunt even one of Thailand's most respected monks The Late Venerable Buddhadasa Bhikku of 'Wat Suan Mokkhe' did not escape the threat of imprisonment for his teachings.

I was first back in Thailand way back in 91 and not before long i was one of those Farang running away from the turmoil on Ratchadamnoern and Black May.

Politically, Thailand hasn't really gotten any better.

Ever since the revolution of 32, it can be quite simply said that the nation has never truly seen a democracy. The power has quite simply changed hands from one form to another ie.. The Navy, The Police, The Army and now we see it in the hands of businessmen.

Generally though, i have been pleased with how Thailand has changed. The country also attracts a lot more foreigners which a true passionate interest in the country and not just it's sex-industry than it used to.

When i first came here Thailand was famed for one thing and that was its 'bar-girls' now i am delighted to see that the country has become famous for other its 'boxing', 'food', 'culture', 'temples' blah blah.... this is a very positive thing.

Your posting is in my view profoundly muddled.I will respond on only one point.General Prem is an honourable and decent man and I am sure he would be the first to repudiate your claim that the CPT fell at his hands.The CPT fell because the rug was pulled from underneath it by Beijing.For heavens sake do some reading before spouting off this kind of nonsense.

Cassandra,

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. And, IMHO, this has been a high quality thread all around, maybe one of the best on TV, again IMHO. I'd like to keep it this way.

It must be recognized that everyone has their own personal interpretations of events in Thailand in years past. These will always be a mixture of personal experience, personal knowledge, and personal perspective. Whether or not anyone's viewpoint is wholly accurate in terms of historical context is really besides the point. The important thing is that all posters have been sharing their unique and quite fascinating experiences and thoughts on this thread. Allow them that with honor.

If you or others have information that enlightens or even corrects misinterpretations on anyone else's part then be assured that it will be welcomed. Please offer it up. But also, please do it in a manner that befits the quality of this thread and accords respect to all posters. They deserve it as well as you.

I'll put my thoughts on this thread in another way - this thread is not an attempt to prove anything. It's purpose is for pure enjoyment which allows people an opportunity to relate their unique private thoughts, experiences, perspectives, and personal history of Thailand. That sharing, IMHO, is a gift to those such as myself who were not in Thailand at the time as it enriches my own experience of this beautiful country.

To all, please keep it coming.

BTW, I've enjoyed reading your great posts as well.

Thanks,

Tippaporn

Edited by Tippaporn
Posted

Pathet laos and some form of khmer insurgents frequently crossed the little muddy between Muk and Ubon , we were doing a bit of hearts and minds in a village near Muang Kao, after we left the Puyai ban and his family were killed by the pathet laos, a young british soldier was killed in the area a few weeks later,maybe the ambush I ran in into on 29/11/1965 in which my oppo got killed was just a dream, as I mentioned earlier in the thread have a look in britains small wars. Nignoy

Please excuse my ignorance. What does "doing a bit of hearts and minds" mean, and how come the Brits were involved in "operations" in Thailand? :o

I'm not sure what role the Brits played in Thailand back in the 60's and I'll allow someone else to comment on that. And, it would be great if anyone can direct us to references on the web regarding their role.

I'm not of a military background either so I'm sure someone else could provide a more accurate definition of "hearts and minds." But I believe it amounts to an effort to align the hearts and minds of an indeginous population to that of a particular cause. Kind of a self-explanatory term.

Posted

The HQ of the CPT was located in Phitsanulok province and til this day there is still a museum there and remnants of the offices, bunkers etc....

It can be argued that the CPT never really were a threat to the country. Since the fall of the CPT in 1981 at the hands of PM Gen Prem Titsunalonda (who it could be said is Thailand's best ever PM) the stories which have emerged have shown a much tamer side to the CPT than was originally thought.

Quite obviously, most of the CPT members who run off to to the jungles and joined the party after the disillusionment of, firstly Oct 73 and then 1976 - did so because there was no other political alternative.

As has been mentioned, this period of Thai history saw a witch-hunt similar to that of MacCarthy's. The student activists of the era therefore, who after being brandished Communists - just became that exact thing. A lot of these CPT leaders who include Ajarn Thirayuth of Thammasart University a (harsh critic of Thaksin's) are, til this day respected teachers/politicians etc... They too, argue this 'tamer' side to the CPT.

During the MacCarthy style Witch Hunt even one of Thailand's most respected monks The Late Venerable Buddhadasa Bhikku of 'Wat Suan Mokkhe' did not escape the threat of imprisonment for his teachings.

I was first back in Thailand way back in 91 and not before long i was one of those Farang running away from the turmoil on Ratchadamnoern and Black May.

Politically, Thailand hasn't really gotten any better.

Ever since the revolution of 32, it can be quite simply said that the nation has never truly seen a democracy. The power has quite simply changed hands from one form to another ie.. The Navy, The Police, The Army and now we see it in the hands of businessmen.

Generally though, i have been pleased with how Thailand has changed. The country also attracts a lot more foreigners which a true passionate interest in the country and not just it's sex-industry than it used to.

When i first came here Thailand was famed for one thing and that was its 'bar-girls' now i am delighted to see that the country has become famous for other its 'boxing', 'food', 'culture', 'temples' blah blah.... this is a very positive thing.

Your posting is in my view profoundly muddled.I will respond on only one point.General Prem is an honourable and decent man and I am sure he would be the first to repudiate your claim that the CPT fell at his hands.The CPT fell because the rug was pulled from underneath it by Beijing.For heavens sake do some reading before spouting off this kind of nonsense.

Cassandra,

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. And, IMHO, this has been a high quality thread all around, maybe one of the best on TV, again IMHO. I'd like to keep it this way.

It must be recognized that everyone has their own personal interpretations of events in Thailand in years past. These will always be a mixture of personal experience, personal knowledge, and personal perspective. Whether or not anyone's viewpoint is wholly accurate in terms of historical context is really besides the point. The important thing is that all posters have been sharing their unique and quite fascinating experiences and thoughts on this thread. Allow them that with honor.

If you or others have information that enlightens or even corrects misinterpretations on anyone else's part then be assured that it will be welcomed. Please offer it up. But also, please do it in a manner that befits the quality of this thread and accords respect to all posters. They deserve it as well as you.

I'll put my thoughts on this thread in another way - this thread is not an attempt to prove anything. It's purpose is for pure enjoyment which allows people an opportunity to relate their unique private thoughts, experiences, perspectives, and personal history of Thailand. That sharing, IMHO, is a gift to those such as myself who were not in Thailand at the time as it enriches my own experience of this beautiful country.

To all, please keep it coming.

BTW, I've enjoyed reading your great posts as well.

Thanks,

Tippaporn

Cassandra - argue if you may but the fact is

It was Gen Prem following in the footsteps of MR Kukrit who offered the CPT an amnesty to put down their weapons for the final time. It was Gen Prem who helped save a lot more bloodshed.

It was through his passive non-violent approach towards the CPT that the party so quickly disbanded. If you are muddled, then pls pick up a book on the recent history of Thailand.

Posted

Pathet laos and some form of khmer insurgents frequently crossed the little muddy between Muk and Ubon , we were doing a bit of hearts and minds in a village near Muang Kao, after we left the Puyai ban and his family were killed by the pathet laos, a young british soldier was killed in the area a few weeks later,maybe the ambush I ran in into on 29/11/1965 in which my oppo got killed was just a dream, as I mentioned earlier in the thread have a look in britains small wars. Nignoy

Please excuse my ignorance. What does "doing a bit of hearts and minds" mean, and how come the Brits were involved in "operations" in Thailand? :o

Hearts and minds meant to win over the population of the areas concerned by helping them,for example, building roads and bridges, new wells . and helping with medical and health problems,one of the main british operations was to build an airfield at Leong Nok Tha, but there was quite a bit of british influenced activity going on at the time,detatchments from 16 and 18 commonwealth brigades from Melaka or Terandak were popping in and out of thailand all the time in the ealy and mid 60,s, as for the reasons we were there, to introduce the british army to the joys of Sanook, Som Tam and Lao Khao :D not forgetting of course bringing the Chips and Mushy Peas experience to Isaan :D nignoy
Posted

The HQ of the CPT was located in Phitsanulok province and til this day there is still a museum there and remnants of the offices, bunkers etc....

It can be argued that the CPT never really were a threat to the country. Since the fall of the CPT in 1981 at the hands of PM Gen Prem Titsunalonda (who it could be said is Thailand's best ever PM) the stories which have emerged have shown a much tamer side to the CPT than was originally thought.

Quite obviously, most of the CPT members who run off to to the jungles and joined the party after the disillusionment of, firstly Oct 73 and then 1976 - did so because there was no other political alternative.

As has been mentioned, this period of Thai history saw a witch-hunt similar to that of MacCarthy's. The student activists of the era therefore, who after being brandished Communists - just became that exact thing. A lot of these CPT leaders who include Ajarn Thirayuth of Thammasart University a (harsh critic of Thaksin's) are, til this day respected teachers/politicians etc... They too, argue this 'tamer' side to the CPT.

During the MacCarthy style Witch Hunt even one of Thailand's most respected monks The Late Venerable Buddhadasa Bhikku of 'Wat Suan Mokkhe' did not escape the threat of imprisonment for his teachings.

I was first back in Thailand way back in 91 and not before long i was one of those Farang running away from the turmoil on Ratchadamnoern and Black May.

Politically, Thailand hasn't really gotten any better.

Ever since the revolution of 32, it can be quite simply said that the nation has never truly seen a democracy. The power has quite simply changed hands from one form to another ie.. The Navy, The Police, The Army and now we see it in the hands of businessmen.

Generally though, i have been pleased with how Thailand has changed. The country also attracts a lot more foreigners which a true passionate interest in the country and not just it's sex-industry than it used to.

When i first came here Thailand was famed for one thing and that was its 'bar-girls' now i am delighted to see that the country has become famous for other its 'boxing', 'food', 'culture', 'temples' blah blah.... this is a very positive thing.

Your posting is in my view profoundly muddled.I will respond on only one point.General Prem is an honourable and decent man and I am sure he would be the first to repudiate your claim that the CPT fell at his hands.The CPT fell because the rug was pulled from underneath it by Beijing.For heavens sake do some reading before spouting off this kind of nonsense.

Cassandra,

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. And, IMHO, this has been a high quality thread all around, maybe one of the best on TV, again IMHO. I'd like to keep it this way.

It must be recognized that everyone has their own personal interpretations of events in Thailand in years past. These will always be a mixture of personal experience, personal knowledge, and personal perspective. Whether or not anyone's viewpoint is wholly accurate in terms of historical context is really besides the point. The important thing is that all posters have been sharing their unique and quite fascinating experiences and thoughts on this thread. Allow them that with honor.

If you or others have information that enlightens or even corrects misinterpretations on anyone else's part then be assured that it will be welcomed. Please offer it up. But also, please do it in a manner that befits the quality of this thread and accords respect to all posters. They deserve it as well as you.

I'll put my thoughts on this thread in another way - this thread is not an attempt to prove anything. It's purpose is for pure enjoyment which allows people an opportunity to relate their unique private thoughts, experiences, perspectives, and personal history of Thailand. That sharing, IMHO, is a gift to those such as myself who were not in Thailand at the time as it enriches my own experience of this beautiful country.

To all, please keep it coming.

BTW, I've enjoyed reading your great posts as well.

Thanks,

Tippaporn

Cassandra - argue if you may but the fact is

It was Gen Prem following in the footsteps of MR Kukrit who offered the CPT an amnesty to put down their weapons for the final time. It was Gen Prem who helped save a lot more bloodshed.

It was through his passive non-violent approach towards the CPT that the party so quickly disbanded. If you are muddled, then pls pick up a book on the recent history of Thailand.

Still hopelessly off target I'm afraid.Prem certainly played an important role though you completely misinterpret his position by describing it as passive and non violent.Certainly he offered an amnesty to CPT defectors but those who resisted were bashed very hard and bloodily.But in any case neither he, Kriengsak or any Thai for that matter was the catalyst for the CPT defeat.As Chris Baker and Khun Pasuk point out, "Orphaned by their former international patrons, most CPT armed units emerged from the jungles and surrendered their arms over 1982-3." The Thais under Prem's leadership handled this final phase reasonably well as opposed to the incompetent and violent way they handled the CPT revolt itself itself.I should also say that the dynamics of the dictatorship vs communism relationship was becoming increasingly irrelevant by the 1980's as the economy began its meteoric rise.

Tippaporn,

Point taken but don't fall for the mistake of assuming all contributions are equally valid and worthwhile.They're not.

Posted
snip> as for the reasons we were there, to introduce the british army to the joys of Sanook, Som Tam and Lao Khao :D not forgetting of course bringing the Chips and Mushy Peas experience to Isaan :D nignoy

:o

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