Going Home

[notmyself]

it takes guts to do it and as they say 'it is better to love and lost than to never have loved at all'

It is better to have loved and lost than to have paid for it and not liked it.

[brit1984]

Sorry to hear this extremely sad story; it must be a very upsetting situation.

As have others, I would like to wish you the best of luck for the future.

My only advice would be to try not to get to too settled in the UK.

Try to concentrate on jobs that could potentially be done remotely from Thailand.

It sounds like you only need a little extra regular money to be able to return.

Check sites like odesk, which was mentioned on another thread recently.

I think it would be easy to make an extra 20k baht/month through various odd-jobs.

Apologies if I am grossly underestimating the magnitude of the shortfall.

Edited June 21, 2012 by brit1984

[Beetlejuice]

Hi Murgatroyd

You have my sympathy and sorry that Thailand all went pear shaped for you.

What I would like to ask you is; when you decided to live in Thailand, was this with the intentions of staying here forever and if not, what plans did you have for your wife and stepchild?

Also, how did you manage to support yourself and family while you were here, are you on a pension, working or living off savings?

The reason I am asking is, although you have mentioned several reasons why you can no longer financially support yourself here, do you have any regular income or was you living in hope that the economic situation would not change, or no one would suffer from any serious health problems and so on? Because I think this is a good lesson for anyone else who considers moving to Thailand for the long term on a hope and a pray, especially if they take on any committments, such as family or investments.

[Murgatroyd]

Hi Beetlejuice,

I should explain that my wife is Thai, and had a daughter by a previous relationship when I met her about five years ago. At that time I had an income of about 75,000 - 80,000 baht per month, (or at least that was the conversion at that time). This was in August 2007. I had, (and still have), further prospects of more capital to come later in life. I figured that that would be enough to retire on in Thailand. I also figured that I had enough capital to cover any medical emergencies. This was before the exchange rate collapsed and the interest rates dropped from about 5% to about 1/2% in the late summer of 2008 about four months after I arrived to live here and get married. When my income was effectively halved by the financial crisis I propped it up by spending some of my capital in the hope that things would improve... a poor decision in hindsight, as instead of improving things look to get worse. My income has continued to decline. I had intended to permanently retire to Thailand. My wife has been wonderful and I have never regretted my decision to come out here and marry her. The unfortunate situation has really been caused by my lack of foresight, and I bitterly regret causing my wife the pain of the separation that must now happen. I still have some capital but it's tied up in bonds that won't mature for at least another two years and the income from those bonds forms about half of my total income. The rest of my income is from bonds in a family trust, which I can't touch for now.

I thought that my calculations were realistic, and as of Spring 2008 everyone I spoke to about my move here agreed. More fool me!

Yes, I hope that this will form an object lesson to anyone who intends to move to Thailand with insufficient resources.

And yes. I do intend to return to Thailand as soon as I can put my finances on a stronger footing, always assuming that my wife will want me back. I for one couldn't really blame her if she didn't.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Murgatroyd

[Beetlejuice]

Hi Beetlejuice,

I should explain that my wife is Thai, and had a daughter by a previous relationship when I met her about five years ago. At that time I had an income of about 75,000 - 80,000 baht per month, (or at least that was the conversion at that time). This was in August 2007. I had, (and still have), further prospects of more capital to come later in life. I figured that that would be enough to retire on in Thailand. I also figured that I had enough capital to cover any medical emergencies. This was before the exchange rate collapsed and the interest rates dropped from about 5% to about 1/2% in the late summer of 2008 about four months after I arrived to live here and get married. When my income was effectively halved by the financial crisis I propped it up by spending some of my capital in the hope that things would improve... a poor decision in hindsight, as instead of improving things look to get worse. My income has continued to decline. I had intended to permanently retire to Thailand. My wife has been wonderful and I have never regretted my decision to come out here and marry her. The unfortunate situation has really been caused by my lack of foresight, and I bitterly regret causing my wife the pain of the separation that must now happen. I still have some capital but it's tied up in bonds that won't mature for at least another two years and the income from those bonds forms about half of my total income. The rest of my income is from bonds in a family trust, which I can't touch for now.

I thought that my calculations were realistic, and as of Spring 2008 everyone I spoke to about my move here agreed. More fool me!

Yes, I hope that this will form an object lesson to anyone who intends to move to Thailand with insufficient resources.

And yes. I do intend to return to Thailand as soon as I can put my finances on a stronger footing, always assuming that my wife will want me back. I for one couldn't really blame her if she didn't.

Thank you for your honesty and being upfront about it all.

I have read the post by our pipo1000 and he quotes that, for normal people living a good life and eating western food about 60000 baht per month would be ample.

My wife and I live fairly well and in all we can get by quite comfortably on 30000 sometimes less baht per month. OK, we are not having Champaign dinners every day and I am not regularly out wine, women and songing every night, but we are getting by and are certainly not on the poverty line.

I am also feeling the crunch due to the ever declining bank interest rates, the drop in bank exchange rates and high inflation. And I do admit that I’ve had to really tighten my belt over the last few years and hate it, especially on the social side that I really enjoy and now finding myself having to stop at home a lot more often and it gets boring.

But as they say; needs must and all one can do is hold tight in the hope that things will improve. But I do feel that they are many who are living with over extravagance and are unable to make cut backs on their lifestyle to ensure their financial survival in Thailand. They really are the <deleted> or bust boys, it`s all or nothing.

I think it`s a case of using common sense and being able to hold back on things for a while and budget yourselves if need be.

In your case Murgatroyd, I don`t know if you still have any income of sorts or how much or for how long, but I can assure you that people can live extremely cheaply in Thailand if they can budget themselves. Also it may be possible that your wife can be eligable for the 30 baht health scheme.

But even if some people are on some kind of low income, there are ways and means. But as I said, I don`t know your situation.

[Murgatroyd]

Yes, I still have an income, but it's dropped below the 40,000 baht per month required to get next years extension of stay based on marriage. I don't have enough spare cash to find a lump sum of 400,000 baht to put in a Thai bank account. If it were still possible to do it on a half and half basis I'd be OK, (Skint but OK). It's not so for now I'm stuffed. The sad truth is that we've been spending a good deal more than my income, and that's how the situation has arisen.

[farang000999]

did ur wife not consider public hospital 30baht options?

what is ur line of employment? why did you decide against teaching english?

[farang000999]

i dont know where you are living in thailand but you would be amazed how pleasant it is in isaan and how cheap the living is.

[farang000999]

i feel for him as well as i have been fortunate enough to make a bit of money, well quite a lot really, at a young age, however there is lingering feeling in the back of my mind that the bankers and crooks in power will take it from me in the form of inflation and policy. the stock market never seems to go up long term, they keep interest rates near zero and prices also seem to be headed up, except for your real estate back home which keeps falling.

[Murgatroyd]

Hello farang 000999.

My wife could indeed have been treated at the local hospital under the government insurance scheme... She was afraid to be treated there... I went and looked at the hospital and I was profoundly unimpressed... cockroaches, clouds of mosquitos, and dirty floors. (I'm not going to identify this hospital as I don't want to get into any sort of deformation situation). I decided that it would be best to go to the national cancer hospital in Bangkok on the basis that they were the specialists. I wanted to get the best treatment for my wife that was available.

I'm afraid that I'm not qualified to teach English in Thailand, as I don't have a teaching degree.

My wife comes from a village in Isaan, but has worked hard for many years to buy her house not far outside Bangkok. Both her sisters live locally. I for one wouldn't try and dictate to her on the matter of where she wants to live.

And yes, I totally agree that the financial game seems to be well stacked against ordinary people and in favor of bankers and politicians.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Murgatroyd

[meatboy]

i realy feel for you murgatroyd but your story is all to familier that what happens when things start to go pear shaped,i used to do accounts for independant retailers and i always used to tell them put every thing down on paper before you start,never take things for granted,what you earn one year doesnt mean you earn the same next year,rent you pay now wont be the same next year,costs change all the time,unless you have a well where you can lower the bucket into you will always struggle and it it be uphill for you.this happens all the time in thailand it is not cheap to live here anymore,farang/thai business go to the wall all the time,so let this be a lesson to all you who think you got a few bob in your pocket doesnt mean it will last without a backup plan.good luck murgatroyd

[guzzi850m2]

Murgatroyd thanks a lot for sharing you situation with us, it certainly gives me something to think about regarding lifestyle and amount of money to save before retirement (I am 50 and still work in the oil offshore industrie). Expats living here can roughly be divided into 2 groups: stay single or having a family. The family man having the right Thai lady is a happy man but it also gives you responsibilities which you clearly have taken seriously, my hat off to you on that my man.

Not taking your family back to cold/rainy UK I can understand as well, it much better to send her a monthly allotment and you can live cheap and move around in the UK as you see necessary. I have a German friend that have his Thai family with him there (wife + infant son) and his wife hate it there, every-time my wife talk to her, she is not happy but miss everything in Thailand: weather - food - family & friends.

I wish you all the best and are sure you will find a solution as you are clearly a man that can look reality in the eyes and take it from there.

[medicinebox]

Murgatroyd mate, nobody saw the Depression (which it now is) coming. My Brother put everything on the line to finance a business deal in 2008 here in the UK. Things were looking good at the time. now the bank are stripping his assets and auctioning everything off, its brutal!. He has two children and a wife to take care of too. You've got your head screwed on, that I can tell. You will figure it out fella, and hey never mind "if she still wants me", you're the prize mate...you have to be, because if she's the prize....wheres her prize??

You'll be just fine mate..

[Ulysses G.]

got a few bob in your pocket doesnt mean it will last

That is life really - especially nowadays.

[plopmeister]

Yes, I still have an income, but it's dropped below the 40,000 baht per month required to get next years extension of stay based on marriage. I don't have enough spare cash to find a lump sum of 400,000 baht to put in a Thai bank account. If it were still possible to do it on a half and half basis I'd be OK, (Skint but OK). It's not so for now I'm stuffed. The sad truth is that we've been spending a good deal more than my income, and that's how the situation has arisen.

As promised I have PMed you but please keep the content private..

[tinfoilhat]

[As for general expenses, Thailand is no longer cheap (if you actually want to 'live' and not exist that is) I cannot get by on less than 120k a month.

Oh no....here we go again...do you realise what you have done my son ?.....20 hail marys and wash your mouth out with soap right now

One has to wonder your requirements for living at 120K. OK only 2 of us, but my wife and I do fine on 30K. Bills/food/drink/truck and her fags.

he said he has 2 daughters which means school fees and other family expenses. Im also guessing you live in the middle of **** nowhere, while he lives in an urban centre, likely Bangkok.

Why can the retired brigade accept that people raising a family have greater expenses?

Edited June 23, 2012 by tombkk
: Vocabulary

[seasia]

Brave post and decision.

I can only add to the wishes of Good Luck and hope that the future works out for you.

I have a feeling it will, you`ve seen a potential future and taken action before it`s too late.

Best of Luck.

[Ulysses G.]

Why can the retired brigade accept that people raising a family have greater expenses?

I think that they are usually addressing the claim that Thailand is not affordable anymore when international schools and imported food have always been expensive.

[geriatrickid]

Why can the retired brigade accept that people raising a family have greater expenses?

I think that they are usually addressing the claim that Thailand is not affordable anymore when international schools and imported food have always been expensive.

With all due respect, in the past 3 years, my Thai related costs have increased overall by 15% and that's being conservative. My investment income has fallen significantly, while my salary and benefits have remained constant. 3 years ago, I was still getting 4-5% on my investments. Now I am getting close to 1%. Most people are in the same boat as me. If I want to maintain some consistency in my standard of living it's going to cost me much more now. I don't eat out at expensive restaurants like I used to and I have shaved much of my discretionary spending. I'm one of the fortunate members of society that comes out at the upper end of the income scale and I feel the increased costs of Thailand. It is much worse for those with a fraction of my income and investments. People that were comfortably above the danger line 3 years ago, are now at the danger line.

Edited June 22, 2012 by geriatrickid

[jackinbkk]

I know how you feel op. I had to come back to England 2 years ago for work. I had hoped to find a good job in Thailand but after 2 years of trying it never happened. I'm in a nice job now. I wish I had this income in Thailand. You still have hope that you can return soon which is good. Chin up mate. It might feel bad now but soon things will get better. Good luck

[Ulysses G.]

Why can the retired brigade accept that people raising a family have greater expenses?

I think that they are usually addressing the claim that Thailand is not affordable anymore when international schools and imported food have always been expensive.

With all due respect, in the past 3 years, my Thai related costs have increased overall by 15% and that's being conservative.

I believe you, but my point is that one can also live on very little quite comfortably if you need to. There is no way that I could eat out 3 times a day and live in a clean, comfortable room in a good part of town in America for less than $500, but I can do it here when I need to and not suffer much.

My income has gone up and down over several decades in Thailand, but I have never had a problems if I was willing to change my habits and I have always lived comfortably.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I believe all of this has been endlessly hashed out over and over, and quite recently.

Most people understand that living on a given amount of money is usually cheaper in Thailand, but some people's preferences, and spending patterns (based on family or not etc) prevent that.

I think everyone would agree that it's very difficult to earn that given amount of money here compared to back home.

And that prices have been rising quite quickly here, perhaps more so than back home. I know that's certainly true for basic food costs, and most likely also at the high end due to currency exchange trends.

And it is definitely the case that those with significant financial investments are receiving much lower returns, and often greatly reduced asset values over the past few years compared to pre-2008.

Depending on your exposure to the above factors. . .

Edited June 23, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[richardjm65]

I know how you must feel. In one week in 1997, I lost my company and from personal funds paid off all creditors and staff (except my UK suppliers and Yellow Pages here in Thailand). That was a mistake, but I felt morally obliged. Had it not been for my wife (who was then both an employee and my GF), I should have required an Embassy assisted ride back to the UK and the prospect of unemployment.

She owned some land and had enough saved to build us a small house. Having been in S.E.Asia since 1972 I felt that I belonged here and we started again, up country. I guess my point is that with your own effort, plus the support of your wife, you may find the relationship stronger because of the troubles you've been through.

I hope so, and wish you and your family the very best of luck. I also hope that you're able to find a way of getting back to Thailand. Perhaps you'll stay on the forum and keep us informed?

[TheFishman1]

Sorry to hear Best of Luck

[rotary]

[As for general expenses, Thailand is no longer cheap (if you actually want to 'live' and not exist that is) I cannot get by on less than 120k a month.

Oh no....here we go again...do you realise what you have done my son ?.....20 hail marys and wash your mouth out with soap right now

One has to wonder your requirements for living at 120K. OK only 2 of us, but my wife and I do fine on 30K. Bills/food/drink/truck and her fags.

Rent - 30k

Bills - 10k

School fees - 10k

Wifes debts - 15k

Housekeeping money/Food/ toiletries/clothes/gasoline etc...30k

General stuff - Going out..beers/restaurants etc...30k..

Plus mosy months something obscure will come that needs paying for - Car insurance/Healt insurance...weekend away....something gets broken...etc etc..

I can live in the western world cheaper than that and I ain't part of the noodle and bus brigade.

[Bramdaddy]

Best of luck to you and your family. I've also decided to leave for greener earning pastures to keep my Thai family in the best of care possible. I know it's a tough call. Go home and earn? or Stay and get burned. I hope we see you back here soon.

[impulse]

Best of luck Murgatroyd. You're not the first one to be kicked in the teeth by an illness in the family. I came to Thailand for a job after over a decade self employed in another foreign country- the very day my significant other got out of a 45 day hospital stay. I'd have gone back to the USA, but a great opportunity opened up for me here.

I miss her and I miss my dogs and my life back there, but this was the only way I could pay for past healthcare and set aside a buttload of money for the transplant that will be the next step. Maybe I could have turned things around and maybe not- but the expenses were a 100% sure thing and "maybe" doesn't cut it when a loved one's health is at stake..

You're making the wise decision and I salute you for it. I hope you can get back soon.

[Dr. Zorg]

Good luck.

[crazykopite]

Thanks Rsquared... Yes, my advice would be to shoulder the expense of comprehensive medical insurance for yourself and your family. I didn't and regretted it. Apart from that it's important to remember that if a person intends to live like a westerner in Thailand, drinking a familiar beer, using the air con in the evening and at night and eating western style food your living expenses won't be nearly as low as you think, and even if you don't play around with the girls a night out for a beer or several once a week or so will also add considerably to your living costs. Family and parenting adds greatly to these expenses with school fees, uniforms, school buses, extra lessons and even musical instruments to factor in!

Also don't forget things like dental care, vet's costs if you get a pet, Taxis everywhere if you don't drive and vehicle expenses if you do... finally don't forget the cost of home and contents insurance if you don't want to get home to a ransacked home.

Yes, over the last 3 years I have started taking out comprehensive medical care for myself and my 2 daughters, it aint cheap at around 2.5k USD per year but it gives me a hell of a lot less to worry about. There are a lot of people here are one serious accident/illness away from a world of nightmares, I do NOT want to end up there.

As for general expenses, Thailand is no longer cheap (if you actually want to 'live' and not exist that is) I cannot get by on less than 120k a month.

Best of luck in the UK, you never know you may even end up enjoying it! I woild like to be back now to watch the football properly.

120,000 per month wow are you feeding the entire village I did not even earn that per month in the UK and had a good life style !!!!!

[DavidMavec]

"As for general expenses, Thailand is no longer cheap (if you actually want to 'live' and not exist that is) I cannot get by on less than 120k a month."

Sorry but that is absurd. I live pretty darn well on a lot less than half that.