Syria Shoots Down Turkish Fighter Jet Off Coast

[News_Editor]

Syria shoots down Turkish fighter jet off coast < br />

2012-06-23 13:02:10 GMT+7 (ICT)

DAMASCUS, SYRIA (BNO NEWS) -- Syrian air defenses shot down a Turkish fighter jet off its western coast on late Friday morning, a military spokesman admitted on early Saturday. A search-and-rescue operation is continuing for the two missing pilots.

The Turkish F-4 aircraft went missing at 11:58 a.m. local time on Friday when the Turkish military lost radar and radio contact with the plane as it was flying over the Mediterranean Sea, southwest of Hatay province which borders Syria. The plane had left Erhaç airbase in Malatya province at 10:30 a.m. local time.

Search-and-rescue efforts began shortly after the aircraft went missing, but it took hours before Syria acknowledged it had shot down the aircraft. "An unidentified aerial target violated Syrian airspace, coming from the west at a very low altitude and at high speed over territorial waters, so the Syrian air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery," a Syrian military spokesman said.

The spokesman said the aircraft was hit as it was about 1 kilometer (0.6 mile) from land, causing it to crash into Syrian territorial waters about 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) from land. He said the crash site is located west of Om al-Tuyour, a village in the northern province of Lattakia.

A Turkish government source told the Hurriyet newspaper on Friday that the Syrian government expressed sorrow after the incident, and the comments from Syria suggest that it did not know it was a Turkish aircraft. "Turkey will take all necessary steps and will take its final position after the full details of the incident are known," a Turkish government statement said.

It remains unclear whether the two pilots survived the crash. Both Syrian and Turkish naval ships are involved in the search-and-rescue operation, which continued on early Saturday morning. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan rejected media reports that the crew members were captured by Syrian forces, saying there is no evidence of that.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2012-06-23

[midas]

Syria's official news agency confirmed that Damascus had downed the jet in a report earlier Saturday.

"An unidentified aerial target violated Syrian airspace, coming from the west at a very low altitude and at high speed over territorial waters" in the eastern Mediterranean, a military spokesman told SANA.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Jun-23/177881-syrian-military-admits-shooting-down-turkish-warplane-sana.ashx#axzz1ybHEtDdd

[coma]

Good straight shooting. Stay out of other peoples country's.

[canuckamuck]

Itchy trigger finger, more to come IMO.

[dingdang]

still all within the (games) rules... nothing to worry...

[metisdead]

Some nonsense posts have been removed.

[phl]

Interesting to see Turkish response. They have rather been downplaying it, where i would have thought Turkey would issue yet another threat or a warning.

[Steely Dan]

According to this Syria used newly supplied Russian missiles to down the plane. Will this be the Archduke Ferdinand moment?

http://www.debka.com/article/22112/Newly-supplied-Russian-Buk-M2-anti-air-missile-used-to-down-Turkish-warplane

To ambush the Turkish Air Force F-4 Super Phantom Friday June 22, over Latakia, Syria used Russian-made self-propelled medium range anti-air Buk-M2 missiles (NATO codenamed SA-11) recently supplied by Moscow. The SA-11 can down aircraft flying at altitudes up to 14 kilometers and Mach 3 speed.

Since the sophisticated weapons were delivered to the Assad regime in recent weeks, it must be assumed that local missile crews had not finished training in their use and would have had to rely on help from their Russian instructors to fire one.

[Scott]

Interesting that there is so little information available, but they know the type of missle, where it was manufactured and how much training the Syrians have and that the Russians had to help them. Perhaps you could supply the serial number on the missle as well?

[dingdang]

"russia downs nato alley planes"

Edited June 23, 2012 by dingdang

[phl]

Interesting that there is so little information available, but they know the type of missle, where it was manufactured and how much training the Syrians have and that the Russians had to help them. Perhaps you could supply the serial number on the missle as well?

that would be classified

[dingdang]

Interesting that there is so little information available, but they know the type of missle, where it was manufactured and how much training the Syrians have and that the Russians had to help them. Perhaps you could supply the serial number on the missle as well?

perhaps because its uninteresting?

except...if... israelis now rescue the turkish pilots from syria and relations improve...

[geriatrickid]

Turkey's response has certainly been restrained, and Erdogan risks losing support from a large segment of those that voted for him, and more importantly from the military. In the past one has seen his harsh rhetoric directed at Greece over the Cyprus dispute. He's gone off the deep end at times over Israel. And now, when confronted with an actual assault on Turkish personnel, he's as quiet as a church mouse. This is a complete slap in the face, and the Turkish populace is in shock by Syria's actions.

Some will say, but the Turks violated Syrian airspace. It may have very well been an error from the Turkish pilot and there are established procedures to deal with such events. When Russian military aircraft violate Canadian airspace, they are dealt with peacefully and are not shot down, they are warned off. Syria and Turkey are not in conflict, and Turkey presented no military threat to Syria.

Erdogan's government has been unrelenting in his marginalizing of the Turkish military, not that it is bad thing to do so, as Erdogan was fairly elected. However, with the past arrests and investigations of senior military officers, there is no love lost between Erdogan and the "old guard". If the the loss of the jet is not countered, it will be seen as another indirect blow to the military, of which most Turk's still harbour some pride.

I can understand Erdogan's restraint, because it is the responsible thing to do, but he's slowly backing himself into a corner and will need to find some way in which to repair the national ego. Perhaps a crackdown on the Kurds, more tough talk on Greece or maybe some sort of indirect finger waving at Israel, something to show the world, Turkey's tough. Or maybe, just maybe, he will see that the Syrian situation is out of control, and that despite all his kissing up to Russia, the Russians don't care about Turkey. Oh yes, the heat is up for Erdogan, and it couldn't happen to a more deserving man.

[chuckd]

The F-4 Phantom was phased out of the USAF as obsolete in 1996. In Syria we have a 1970s aircraft against a modern SAM.

The outcome isn't surprising.

[dingdang]

i believe, syria has said already some months ago, that they wont sit idly by when anyone tries to attack them or when anyone sends military...

even if it was the arab league - syria would take on the fight...

[phl]

IT would seem Turkey is unsure on what to do. Other's are staying out of it for whatever reasons, so Turkey is left alone to make the decision and it seems they are either to scared of the consequences or ................i do not know

ANKARA - Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Saturday it was not possible to ignore the fact that Syria had shot down a Turkish fighter jet and said everything that needed to be done following the incident would be done,

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=274903

[GentlemanJim]

The only thing that is important here is the safety and well being of the crew. I fear that as so much time has passed already, their chances of survival are limited. Under the current circumstances the Syrians can not be blamed at all for shooting this aircraft down, it could have been anyone, and they displayed real balls by following their sop's. It is correct that Turkey are taking a low key stance on this. It was nothing short of bloody stupid having an aircraft so close that human error was able to put the crew over the border and into airspace where the sovereign country is at civil war. It is unfortunate for the crews, tough luck for Turkey and a great indicator to the rest of the military in the area that Syria are still at an effective state of readiness and willing to protect its airspace.

[phl]

The only thing that is important here is the safety and well being of the crew. I fear that as so much time has passed already, their chances of survival are limited. Under the current circumstances the Syrians can not be blamed at all for shooting this aircraft down, it could have been anyone, and they displayed real balls by following their sop's. It is correct that Turkey are taking a low key stance on this. It was nothing short of bloody stupid having an aircraft so close that human error was able to put the crew over the border and into airspace where the sovereign country is at civil war. It is unfortunate for the crews, tough luck for Turkey and a great indicator to the rest of the military in the area that Syria are still at an effective state of readiness and willing to protect its airspace.

very true, but NOT being able to take out a 20 year old obsolete aircraft would be a bigger embarrassment.

[GentlemanJim]

The only thing that is important here is the safety and well being of the crew. I fear that as so much time has passed already, their chances of survival are limited. Under the current circumstances the Syrians can not be blamed at all for shooting this aircraft down, it could have been anyone, and they displayed real balls by following their sop's. It is correct that Turkey are taking a low key stance on this. It was nothing short of bloody stupid having an aircraft so close that human error was able to put the crew over the border and into airspace where the sovereign country is at civil war. It is unfortunate for the crews, tough luck for Turkey and a great indicator to the rest of the military in the area that Syria are still at an effective state of readiness and willing to protect its airspace.

very true, but NOT being able to take out a 20 year old obsolete aircraft would be a bigger embarrassment.

Also very true, BUT, providing the crew are OK, the trade of the aircraft for the value of intel received would be well worth it. Syria declared a valuable card in its hand with this incident, more so than doing nothing. Again I hope the crew made it.

[phl]

The only thing that is important here is the safety and well being of the crew. I fear that as so much time has passed already, their chances of survival are limited. Under the current circumstances the Syrians can not be blamed at all for shooting this aircraft down, it could have been anyone, and they displayed real balls by following their sop's. It is correct that Turkey are taking a low key stance on this. It was nothing short of bloody stupid having an aircraft so close that human error was able to put the crew over the border and into airspace where the sovereign country is at civil war. It is unfortunate for the crews, tough luck for Turkey and a great indicator to the rest of the military in the area that Syria are still at an effective state of readiness and willing to protect its airspace.

very true, but NOT being able to take out a 20 year old obsolete aircraft would be a bigger embarrassment.

Also very true, BUT, providing the crew are OK, the trade of the aircraft for the value of intel received would be well worth it. Syria declared a valuable card in its hand with this incident, more so than doing nothing. Again I hope the crew made it.

i do not think crew will make it alive out of this one.

if they get captured by Syrian army, they would be tortured and killed for being spies and if captured by the resistance, i believe they will also be killed.

one strange thing is that no one is reporting anything of the crew, so were they captured? did they eject prior to being shut down? or what happened with them?

if nothing found in the wreckage, they must be somewhere, but no word from any news source

[midas]

Is it possible that the wider Eurasian anti-American coalition led by the Russians and the Chinese are confident that NATO will not intervene out of fear of triggering a wider war? After all the Russian naval base has been a great obstacle to NATO intervention. Libya didn’t have any Russian bases, and it took far less internal violence for NATO to intervene there.

Is it even possible that the Eurasians are trying to provoke NATO into another costly and damaging war? After all, the American Empire is much more indebted and militarily overstretched than it was before 9/11. Osama bin Laden’s goal of dragging the United States into the middle eastern quagmire, and thereby bankrupting America has been an unmitigated success. Could the Eurasians be trying to provoke a regional war in order to weaken NATO and draw attention away from their own weakened economic picture?

http://azizonomics.com/2012/06/23/does-syria-want-a-war/

[JemJem]

The heavy majority of people in Turkey want Turkey to stay away from Syria's troubles as much as possible. The only group of people that wants Turkey to militarily interfere in Syria (either by itself or as part of a NATO force) are the pro-Sunni, neo-Ottomanist types among the AKP voters.

I think there is a 90 percent chance (at least, for now) Erdogan won't risk a war move because he knows that it is likely to be the beginning of the end for him and his AKP (ie. due to the war's affecting the Turkish economy badly)

[canuckamuck]

The only thing that is important here is the safety and well being of the crew. I fear that as so much time has passed already, their chances of survival are limited. Under the current circumstances the Syrians can not be blamed at all for shooting this aircraft down, it could have been anyone, and they displayed real balls by following their sop's. It is correct that Turkey are taking a low key stance on this. It was nothing short of bloody stupid having an aircraft so close that human error was able to put the crew over the border and into airspace where the sovereign country is at civil war. It is unfortunate for the crews, tough luck for Turkey and a great indicator to the rest of the military in the area that Syria are still at an effective state of readiness and willing to protect its airspace.

very true, but NOT being able to take out a 20 year old obsolete aircraft would be a bigger embarrassment.

Also very true, BUT, providing the crew are OK, the trade of the aircraft for the value of intel received would be well worth it. Syria declared a valuable card in its hand with this incident, more so than doing nothing. Again I hope the crew made it.

i do not think crew will make it alive out of this one.

if they get captured by Syrian army, they would be tortured and killed for being spies and if captured by the resistance, i believe they will also be killed.

one strange thing is that no one is reporting anything of the crew, so were they captured? did they eject prior to being shut down? or what happened with them?

if nothing found in the wreckage, they must be somewhere, but no word from any news source

It crashed in the sea, if no mention of the crew by this point I would say the outcome is obvious.

[dingdang]

pilots have very sophisticated survival stuff with them, when they exit... there is clear procedure how to behave and they have really much more than any "average" soldier with them...

i think they have to hide and wait until they get rescued or so...

two more "ron arad"-cases?

[Yunla]

Turkish jet may have strayed into Syrian airspace:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-18562210

The 'coalition of the willing' are never going to be as willing to go into Syria, because Assad is a true patriot who believes fervently that even his most serious crimes are acts of devotion and patriotism. He also has a recent report 55% of the population want him to stay in power, while another 30% approve of his hardline actions against the 'criminals'.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Yunla

[Steely Dan]

Interesting that there is so little information available, but they know the type of missle, where it was manufactured and how much training the Syrians have and that the Russians had to help them. Perhaps you could supply the serial number on the missle as well?

that would be classified

I think the weight of evidence suggests a modern weapon shooting down an old plane, which was essentially my point.

[coma]

IT would seem Turkey is unsure on what to do. Other's are staying out of it for whatever reasons, so Turkey is left alone to make the decision and it seems they are either to scared of the consequences or ................i do not know

ANKARA - Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Saturday it was not possible to ignore the fact that Syria had shot down a Turkish fighter jet and said everything that needed to be done following the incident would be done,

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=274903

What can Turkey do ? They are in the wrong by flying into Syrian air space. Especially at a time when they are experiencing conflict. What did the Turks think would happen ? The Syrain government would turn on the runway lights in Damascus and give the Turks a State welcome ?

[phl]

IT would seem Turkey is unsure on what to do. Other's are staying out of it for whatever reasons, so Turkey is left alone to make the decision and it seems they are either to scared of the consequences or ................i do not know

ANKARA - Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Saturday it was not possible to ignore the fact that Syria had shot down a Turkish fighter jet and said everything that needed to be done following the incident would be done,

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=274903

What can Turkey do ? They are in the wrong by flying into Syrian air space. Especially at a time when they are experiencing conflict. What did the Turks think would happen ? The Syrain government would turn on the runway lights in Damascus and give the Turks a State welcome ?

considering that Turkey and Syria are not at war, perhaps a friendly warning would have been appropriate rather than shooting down the plane

[IMA_FARANG]

Saw this story on the BBC World Service.

If the actual path of this aircraft was as the Syrians claim, this was clearly a photo-recon mission.

A F-4 flying at low altitude entering from the sea, passing over an area, and then turing around and going back like that just screams "photo-recon" to those in the know.

A F-4 flying low-and-fast, a two man crew, and the GIB (Guy In Back) takes the "pictures"....actually it's called an EO (Electro-Optica)l package.

One pass may work....but don't try doing it again....because the first pass wakes up the even sleepiest air defense crews.

THe Isreali Air Force is generally considered to be about the best in the world at that kind of thing. They often use the same F-4 Phantom aircraft for recon missions.

Possibly the Syrians thought this was an Isreali plane?

[coma]

IT would seem Turkey is unsure on what to do. Other's are staying out of it for whatever reasons, so Turkey is left alone to make the decision and it seems they are either to scared of the consequences or ................i do not know

ANKARA - Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Saturday it was not possible to ignore the fact that Syria had shot down a Turkish fighter jet and said everything that needed to be done following the incident would be done,

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=274903

What can Turkey do ? They are in the wrong by flying into Syrian air space. Especially at a time when they are experiencing conflict. What did the Turks think would happen ? The Syrain government would turn on the runway lights in Damascus and give the Turks a State welcome ?

considering that Turkey and Syria are not at war, perhaps a friendly warning would have been appropriate rather than shooting down the plane

You are right. No they are not at war. But try and look at it from Syria's perspective. They ARE in the middle of a war from within. Faced with numerous threats of military intervention from the international community,which could come from anyone at anytime without warning. That coupled with the fact they didn't know it was a Turkish aircraft, I dare say they had no choice but to treat it as a hostile aircraft [ and rightly so IMO ] and therefore had to shoot it down. These things happen fast and failure to act could end with 500lb 'ers landing in the middle of Damascus.

And the Turks should have and probably new darn well before they launched that they would get lite up or shot down if they were detected. As,after all, they were flying inside a combat zone.