Atm Card Cloning - Bangkok Bank, Nongkhai

[Guemlum]

We have recently been victims of fraud where the card details have been copied using a skimming device attached to an ATM at Bangkok Bank, Tesco Lotus, Nongkhai.

Cash withdrawls have been made in Vietnam, Malaysia and Chicago, U.S. Unfortunately the money cannot be claimed back by my bank as the card is supposed to remain with me, but thats another story.

Be on your guard guys and check the ATMS for attached devices and cameras directly above the keypad, where there shouldnt be one.

Guemlum

[sirineou]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Hope they did't hit you for too much.

Thanks for the "Heads Up"

Always on the look out for such scams, that's why I use a dedicated debit card, for ATM and internet credit card transactions,and keep a small amount in it,

I transfer money to that account for no cost from an other account with in the same bank, when ever I need additional funds.

Edited June 24, 2012 by sirineou

[ripstanley]

Alway cover the ATM pin pad with your other hand when entering pin.

[edwinclapham]

Thanks for the heads up.. we are always at these very same ATM's and my father banks with the Bangkok Bank NK so have sent your warning over to him.

Cheers for the heads up

[Guemlum]

Unfortunately I've been hit for the princely sum of £341...The card is held by my sister-in-law who makes monthly withdrawals for my son. This is the first time this has happened to us in 7 years of using this card and ATM machine.

Cash withdrawals were made in Vietnam, Malaysia and Chicago U.S all within the space of 5 days. Must be an organised gang selling on the cloned card details for transactions to occur in different continents within a very short space of time. Myself, when I'm in the UK or Thailand, I always cover my hand when entering my PIN number, but unfortunately my sister-in-law didnt.

I also use a dedicated debit card, for ATM transactions in Thailand and transfer money to that account for no cost from another account. On this occassion they kept on withdrawing untill it reached the agreed overdraft limit...good job it wasn't thousands!!

Guemlum

[edwinclapham]

Unfortunately I've been hit for the princely sum of £341...The card is held by my sister-in-law who makes monthly withdrawals for my son. This is the first time this has happened to us in 7 years of using this card and ATM machine.

Cash withdrawals were made in Vietnam, Malaysia and Chicago U.S all within the space of 5 days. Must be an organised gang selling on the cloned card details for transactions to occur in different continents within a very short space of time. Myself, when I'm in the UK or Thailand, I always cover my hand when entering my PIN number, but unfortunately my sister-in-law didnt.

I also use a dedicated debit card, for ATM transactions in Thailand and transfer money to that account for no cost from another account. On this occassion they kept on withdrawing untill it reached the agreed overdraft limit...good job it wasn't thousands!!

Guemlum

That sucks.. I am surprised that the Bank are not taking the loss for this! But I suppose seeing your sister in law had the card, this is their get out clause. I really am sorry that you have been through this, that is still a princely sum to find.

I tend to go to the Banks with an internal ATM more for piece of mind. You dont expect to find this in NK but thats very naive of me.

As you say a good job it isnt in the thousands.

[happyaussie]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't the bank be liable as it was them who accepted a fraudulent transaction. It's easy enough to show that you weren't in the locations and if only one card exists it's obviously a fraud.

[beano2274]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't the bank be liable as it was them who accepted a fraudulent transaction. It's easy enough to show that you weren't in the locations and if only one card exists it's obviously a fraud.

What is fraudulent about it, the card was used with the correct PIN number, and the bank will use that to get out of any case against them.

My friend recently lost her Credit Card, all of a sudden things were being bought with it, but as the signatures did not match she did not have to pay and the shop lost out, lucky for her, also she reported it about 1 hour after finding out she had lost it.

[edwinclapham]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't the bank be liable as it was them who accepted a fraudulent transaction. It's easy enough to show that you weren't in the locations and if only one card exists it's obviously a fraud.

If you read the OP's post, he has given his sister in law his ATM card, which in turn deems the bank's liability as nil one would imagine.

[ubonjoe]

If it was a Thai bank they would have to cover the loss because it is there machine that was compromised. There has been a legal precedent made where a person sued and won the case for a similar cloning operation.

If your bank offers it a transaction alert sent to you by SMS would let you know quickly something was going on.

[edwinclapham]

If it was a Thai bank they would have to cover the loss because it is there machine that was compromised. There has been a legal precedent made where a person sued and won the case for a similar cloning operation.

If your bank offers it a transaction alert sent to you by SMS would let you know quickly something was going on.

These cards are not transferable, therefore if the OP was in the UK and his sister in law was withdrawing monies out on the OP's card then surely they are not liable!

[ubonjoe]

If he wanted to try and get his money back he could probably fight to get it back from Bangkok bank not his home country bank because it was their machine and they are responsible for it being secure.

I can understand his banks position.

[happyaussie]

You entrust your money for safekeeping to a bank. It is THEIR responsibility to ensure your funds are secured. If their ATM machines can be tampered with to extract YOUR confidential information it is their responsibility to ensure this can't happen under all circumstances.

Sorry, but I simply hate banks and insurance companies. They take everything and give little in return. And they accept no responsibility for their actions.

Remember it was banks and insurance companies greed which put the world into the current financial situation.

[Guemlum]

My banks excuse at present is that the card should have been with me and not my sister-in-law. However, I did explain to them when opening this account with them that the card would be used by her in Thailand on a regular basis. Had they not been happy with this at the time of opening the account, they should have said otherwise and I would have gone elsewhere, but it was a case of "yes sir, we can do that" etc etc.

I have referred my case to the "Financial Ombudsman Service" in the UK who will decide whether I have a case or not. I have also been in touch with Bangkok Bank but am seriously not expecting a reply. Yes, I believe it should be the responsibilty of the bank to maintain and monitor their ATM machines and re-imburse any loses to customers that have been victims of ATM fraud...but guys, T.I.T, and I really cant see them assisting me in this matter.

Guemlum

[happyaussie]

In my mind it's not who has the card which is the issue. It's the fact that the bank allowed someone to extract your pin number without your permission.

If you were issued one ATM card it should be pretty easy to prove that neither you, nor your in law was in the US etc.

Your money was fraudulently removed whilst in their care.

Yell loud enough and frequently enough and I'd imagine they'll relent.

[riepan963]

Have I missed it in any of the posts? Was a device actually found on/in the ATM and if so, by whom?

If it was inside Tesco then surely hundreds of more people must have lost money and the store should be responsible for the security on their premises.?

[happyaussie]

Have I missed it in any of the posts? Was a device actually found on/in the ATM and if so, by whom?

If it was inside Tesco then surely hundreds of more people must have lost money and the store should be responsible for the security on their premises.?

Very good point. There's also the factor, which I didn't want to mention about the credibility of the lady who had the card. Sorry no offence meant. But I've heard of several stories of GF's and wifes who say they were robbed, ATM fraud etc when in fact they spent the money or had a gambling problem.

[ice1318]

Not wishing to put a damper on things but the Financial Ombudsman Service

only regulates UK banks,building societies etc... and won't have any jurisdiction.

I'm suprised they've agreed to look into the matter. Perhaps the best they could

do is let you know how you stood if the same scenario occured in the UK. If this

was helpful to your cause you could then pass that on to the powers that be

within Bangkok Bank. They certainly wouldn't be bound by it.But discretion may

be exercised in your favour if only to avoid bad PR.

Good luck.

[Guemlum]

Have I missed it in any of the posts? Was a device actually found on/in the ATM and if so, by whom?

If it was inside Tesco then surely hundreds of more people must have lost money and the store should be responsible for the security on their premises.?

Very good point. There's also the factor, which I didn't want to mention about the credibility of the lady who had the card. Sorry no offence meant. But I've heard of several stories of GF's and wifes who say they were robbed, ATM fraud etc when in fact they spent the money or had a gambling problem.

Not wishing to put a damper on things but the Financial Ombudsman Service

only regulates UK banks,building societies etc... and won't have any jurisdiction.

I'm suprised they've agreed to look into the matter. Perhaps the best they could

do is let you know how you stood if the same scenario occured in the UK. If this

was helpful to your cause you could then pass that on to the powers that be

within Bangkok Bank. They certainly wouldn't be bound by it.But discretion may

be exercised in your favour if only to avoid bad PR.

Good luck.

No offence taken happyaussie...my sister-in-law is probably the most devout, honest buddhist I have ever met...3 years, 36 transactions and not 1 baht more taken than agreed.

ice1318...as I may have mentioned, I didnt expect to get any assistance from Bankgok bank and that has been confirmed by their email to me and there unhelpfulness when my sister-in-law visited her local branch. I only got the financial ombudsman involved as my "beef" was with Nationwide and their lack of co-operation in investigating the matter.

To this end, I put in a further complaint to Nationwide and within 2 days was credited the amount taken from my account with an apology on behalf of the fraud team.

Happy ending.

Guemlum