The Value Of Your Child'S Education.

[StreetCowboy]

Thank MrRealDeal, I agree with you, but I think you missed my point.

We are talking about my son.

He will go to university and get a degree. Unless, he turns out to be thick and there is nothing I can do about it.

Even if I make some bad decisions and end up poor and he goes to the worst school in Thailand, he will not be uneducated. My duty as a father will ensure that.

Of course, giving the 5m would have strings attached.

I think we could agree that a doctor (I'll use this as I have earlier) will learn his trade at medical school, not at secondary and certainly not at primary.

Now, if two students meet at medical school, one with 5m (and the strings) having been to a school lower than an international school (not the worst schools) and the other with no money but an international school education. How much would the international one be at an advantage?

I reckon good connections and a broad education will get you further in your career than 5M baht will.

Personally, if I had 5m baht in my hand when I was 22 I'd have squandered it on drink and loose women, or fast cars, or a house, or a pension or something, same as I would now, and get no real benefit from it at all.

SC

[TommoPhysicist]

I reckon good connections and a broad education will get you further in your career than 5M baht will.

Personally, if I had 5m baht in my hand when I was 22 I'd have squandered it on drink and loose women, or fast cars, or a house, or a pension or something, same as I would now, and get no real benefit from it at all.

SC

IN CM 5M would buy you 4-5 two bedroom houses in the SanSai area.

LIve in one and rent the others out to foreigners at 5k a month ............ income 15-20k a month.

So that already would give you the wage of a Thai with a degree and a good job, plus a nice place to live.

I'll have the 5M!

[MrRealDeal]

Thats a good question , the first thing I would say is that if you score high enough I think you can go to a better school in Thailand just like everwhere else, I am not sure but am pretty sure if you score well enough the school is actually free here , so assuming they would qualify for the same school is unrealistic in my opinion. ..... we have to assume you are not just throwing away the money but are actually spending it wisely which means one would score better than the other and also have a better foundation for learning at whatever school they went to. But for argument sake lets say they ended up in the same school anyhow, however for a realistic argument sake I would say only the best educated one would get into the free one ..... if I am right about that rendering the 5 million moot right there or close enough over the long run to it. but thats really a side issue for my main points but keep it in mind and look into it.

One would have an easier time of doing well than the other at the most critical time ..... the beginning , most people don't fail or quit closer to the end, and that advantage of likelyhood of sucsess is important but also deteriorates after the second year pretty fast assuming the other one is still there. Not a point I would want you to take lightly because it is important to think about. Obviously if he fails or quits we are back to the other post to some degree. However part of the money could be used for tutors also important to consider.

Now lets flip this around a little and ask how much of a benefit is having a solid foundation to start medical school over not having a very good one and risking failure or dropping out because your trying to catch up and it's to hard, but you have 5 million baht ? The obvious answer is you are a lot better off at that point with the best education you can have than 5 million baht which while it can pay for tutors it will still be more difficult to graduate , at this point the education is still the winner , once agian I am painting the best possible outcome because you are tetering on the borderline possibly of not even being accepted let alone being able to complete the work in a timely fashion and with stellar grades. But lets keep going ....

The first year grade point average will be better for one than the other , his grasp of the next year will be better making that year easier for him as well and likely also a better GPA , Now assuming they are both around in the 3rd year things will begin to even out a little as the advantage at the third year from the earlier education will have waned to almost nothing , assuming the origional school wasn't horrible like you stated it wouldn't be .... at this point they are pretty much on even ground ASSUMING they are both their ..... thats the problem and the risk you are taking. I know I am repeating that but im doing it to make sure you heard me ..... ok

Now we will assume that all things are equal for the next 2 years , one will have a better GPA and by a noticable margin most likely, and defenitly noticable to the Graduate school and employers .... I know the joke that comes to mind ..... what do you call the person who graduated at the bottom of the class in Medical school ? ...... Doctor ...... However once again we are tetering on the risk of being accepted at all to the very best School and also the Schools within the Schools , perhaps accepted into general practice but not Neuro Surgury for example ..... So once again the education is holding it's advantage even though it seemed like it was lost forever 2 years ago.

I won't say it's not possible for both to end up in the same place at the end but I will say that statisticly it's highly unlikely , when people say anyone can grow up to be presedent or a doctor for example they are speaking from the heart not from the facts of life , in reality babys with proper edcational baby toys and even colors in the crib have a lifelong advantage over those that don't and those with a better grasp of things sooner almost always maintain that advantage through Graduate School and the reality is one will be the Head of the department and the other will be his staff eventually but have 5 million baht to pay his bills and the other one will either not have any or have to pay them.

So at this point the question becomes do you want to be the Department Head or the staff with 5 million bht ? You can see where I am going I'm sure in that once again the 5 million bht over time become a lot less valuable than it seemed in the beginning. Once again, odds are, based on many years of data and factual history that one will not only end up more wealthy inspite of not having the money but also have a better quality of life in that it;s better to be the boss than the staff even if your a Doctor ! ...... And bringing it to this level or the level of a Physist or Lawyer or other well respected high paying field renders the money less and less of an issue rather than more of an issue for a lower paying field.

Not to be Mr repetative but all this assumes they were both accepted and graduated from the beginning ...... What I am trying to point out is that bringing it up to this level actually makes the 5 mill less relevant rather than more , the Masters Degree person would miss not having the 5 mill more than the Head of Pediatrics would ..... In fact what I am really trying to show you is that neither Doctor would really care about the money at 35 but one would have had a much harder time getting there and have a slightly lower paying job and the risk of never getting there is substantial enough to not make it the better choice for your child .......

I am sorry to have to tell you this because I know it's not what you want to hear, but I am not making any of this up or pulling it out of my opinion butt cheeks , it's just they way education works the overwhelming amount of the time all things being equal based on historical facts.

As far as the financial aspect goes now we have an educated person with strings attached investing his money and one with a better job eventually ..... once again sorry to tell you but the rate of return of 5 mill inflation protected will not end up the winner, however the difference between pay is obviously a lot larger in the first post so while it would take longer for the winner to emerge, at the same time the amount is less important because of the higher wage, once again making the plan from start to finish against the person who had all the money ! ...... Just another example of how fact is stranger than fiction !

Once again it's really true and I wouldn't have wrote all this if it wasn't statisticly and factually correct because it's a serious issue.

Edited June 28, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[MrRealDeal]

I reckon good connections and a broad education will get you further in your career than 5M baht will.

Personally, if I had 5m baht in my hand when I was 22 I'd have squandered it on drink and loose women, or fast cars, or a house, or a pension or something, same as I would now, and get no real benefit from it at all.

SC

IN CM 5M would buy you 4-5 two bedroom houses in the SanSai area.

LIve in one and rent the others out to foreigners at 5k a month ............ income 15-20k a month.

So that already would give you the wage of a Thai with a degree and a good job, plus a nice place to live.

I'll have the 5M!

Thats horribly inaccurate ...... my wife and most all her friends with masters degrees make 120,000 per month not 20,000 ....... since 35 years old ........ Yeah it's geat until 35 and then you got 4-5 houses and 20K and the other person has a house and 120K each month ...... just like I pointed out ...... Your 20K now goes to upkeep on the 4-5 houses, your math assumes they are rented 365 days a year evey year , and your point is such nonsense I am not even going to waste my time adressing it.

And as an edit I will point out that your post proves that you are not a Physicist because one would have a better grasp of mathamatics than that , and also use you post to point out why an education is so important aside from just getting a job , if he actualy was one he would have considered how often the houses needed painting and plumbing and the risk of flooding or robbery renters not paying and vacancies, ect ..... This is the perfect example of what an education does for people ...... it allows them to reason things out as opposed to not being able to envision the things an educated person would see right off the bat.

Yes I am sure you would take the money, and I'm also sure you don't know the difference between the Planck era and the Inflationary period or why a real Physicist knows that Hawking Radation is fraud perpetuated on the Indian Scientist Cahndrakressar. Although most are to polite to mention it because of his disability.

Edited June 28, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[TommoPhysicist]

@mrDeal

I retired at 45 with enough money to live out my life in any country in the world, I wouldn't get out of bed for a job paying 120k a month ( in the 80/90s I was paid 250k a month plus bonus. . . Bonus usually more than wage). I choose to live the way I do, money doesn't buy happiness. My children do well in any school as they have drive and ability. Something you can't buy your kids.

Because I have the ability to think, I can see further than those that suppose throwing money at their children's education, will guarantee them a high paying job and a good life.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[MrRealDeal]

@mrDeal

I retired at 45 with enough money to live out my life in any country in the world, I wouldn't get out of bed for a job paying 120k a month ( in the 80/90s I was paid 250k a month plus bonus. . . Bonus usually more than wage). I choose to live the way I do, money doesn't buy happiness. My children do well in any school as they have drive and ability. Something you can't buy your kids.

Because I have the ability to think, I can see further than those that suppose throwing money at their children's education, will guarantee them a high paying job and a good life.

That still makes you a wanna be Physicist ..... and unfortunatly you have already proven your lack of ability to reason correctly making your comment absurd, however I am glad you made a lot of money and your kids are doing well.

[TommoPhysicist]

@mrDeal

I retired at 45 with enough money to live out my life in any country in the world, I wouldn't get out of bed for a job paying 120k a month ( in the 80/90s I was paid 250k a month plus bonus. . . Bonus usually more than wage). I choose to live the way I do, money doesn't buy happiness. My children do well in any school as they have drive and ability. Something you can't buy your kids.

Because I have the ability to think, I can see further than those that suppose throwing money at their children's education, will guarantee them a high paying job and a good life.

That still makes you a wanna be Physicist ..... and unfortunatly you have already proven your lack of ability to reason correctly making your comment absurd, however I am glad you made a lot of money and your kids are doing well.

You're a slave to the system, working jobs that you hate .

For that shit you don't need, It's too bad the world is based on greed.

PS

I noticed you joined when Bendix was banned.

And the same posting style.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[StreetCowboy]

@mrDeal

I retired at 45 with enough money to live out my life in any country in the world, I wouldn't get out of bed for a job paying 120k a month ( in the 80/90s I was paid 250k a month plus bonus. . . Bonus usually more than wage). I choose to live the way I do, money doesn't buy happiness. My children do well in any school as they have drive and ability. Something you can't buy your kids.

Because I have the ability to think, I can see further than those that suppose throwing money at their children's education, will guarantee them a high paying job and a good life.

That still makes you a wanna be Physicist ..... and unfortunatly you have already proven your lack of ability to reason correctly making your comment absurd, however I am glad you made a lot of money and your kids are doing well.

You're a slave to the system, working jobs that you hate .

For that shit you don't need, It's too bad the world is based on greed.

PS

I noticed you joined when Bendix was banned.

And the same posting style.

I really enjoy my job; I can't think of a better one, though that could be lack of imagination... to be fair, my previous job was slightly more entertaining, but much more stressful, less stable, and didn't pay as well -

I'm fortunate that it pays well so I actually have a choice of whether I pay a million baht a year in school fees or not

And the best of it is that I don't have to deal with members of the public.

I suppose that's the benefit of a good education

SC

[sonicdragon]

<snip>Now, if two students meet at medical school, one with 5m (and the strings) having been to a school lower than an international school (not the worst schools) and the other with no money but an international school education. How much would the international one be at an advantage?

I feel that I'm in somewhat of a qualified position to comment on this, as I work part-time at one of the largest medical schools in the UK. I sit on several committees within the school, two of which deal with "student education" matters. Having reflected on this today, I have the following thoughts:

1. The majority of medical students come from fairly well-off families, as compared to the general student population. Someone who is broke may find it hard to fit it in (dependent on the individual's personality of course).

2. Medical students who don't have a pot to pi$$ in will have a very difficult time because their expenses (in addition to tuition fees) are higher than the average students - for example in their clinical placements they will often have to travel far or pay for temporary accomodation on top of their normal term-time accomodation.

3. The majority of those with an international school education from overseas will come from wealthy families - either chldren of working expatriate Brits in high-flying jobs, or children from extremely wealthy overseas families. Someone with an international school education, yet quite poor, is unusual. They might find it hard to fit in, though this would, in the end, be determined by their personality more than anything else, I would think.

4. There is a small minority of foreign students (not just medics) that come from families with moderate means and who didn't go to an international school, but instead went to a middle-of-the-road private school that gave them the qualifications they needed to get into UK medical school. These students tend to be very very bright and do very very well, as they are aware of the value of education, and they don't spend what money they have on frivolous things.

Bottom line: I don't think there is a clear advantage in having money and a non-international school education, compared to having an international school education and very little money. However the one with very little money would be at a disadvantage if it were so little that they couldn't engage in a moderate amount of social activity and pay for the necessary normal living expenses.

[TommoPhysicist]

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

[brit1984]

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Training the doctors and nurses of the future is not a joke.

[TommoPhysicist]

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Training the doctors and nurses of the future is not a joke.

Most doctors and nurses that work for the NHS in the UK seem to be imported from overseas.

Easier and cheaper to train as a doctor in India then return to the UK to work.

[brit1984]

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Training the doctors and nurses of the future is not a joke.

Most doctors and nurses that work for the NHS in the UK seem to be imported from overseas.

Easier and cheaper to train as a doctor in India then return to the UK to work.

The fact that some NHS doctors trained abroad does not take away from the fact that UK medical schools are among the most rigorous, effective and well-respected trainers of future medical professionals in the world.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[mjj]

Whilst I don't doubt the expertise of the British medical schools, the last couple of visits to NHS hospitals was truly awful.

[samsiam]

But Tommo....were you not recently mentioning you had 80b to your name until your ex came around to sponge off ??

If that was not you....then beat me with a paddle with my consent......but never enjoyment.

[TommoPhysicist]

But Tommo....were you not recently mentioning you had 80b to your name until your ex came around to sponge off ??

If that was not you....then beat me with a paddle with my consent......but never enjoyment.

That was BJBKK .......... your paddle or mine?

Edited June 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[samsiam]

But Tommo....were you not recently mentioning you had 80b to your name until your ex came around to sponge off ??

If that was not you....then beat me with a paddle with my consent......but never enjoyment.

That was BJBKK .......... your paddle or mine?

I am so sorry...that could be quite an insult being accused of saying something that he said.

How bigs your paddle ??

[MrRealDeal]

@mrDeal

I retired at 45 with enough money to live out my life in any country in the world, I wouldn't get out of bed for a job paying 120k a month ( in the 80/90s I was paid 250k a month plus bonus. . . Bonus usually more than wage). I choose to live the way I do, money doesn't buy happiness. My children do well in any school as they have drive and ability. Something you can't buy your kids.

Because I have the ability to think, I can see further than those that suppose throwing money at their children's education, will guarantee them a high paying job and a good life.

That still makes you a wanna be Physicist ..... and unfortunatly you have already proven your lack of ability to reason correctly making your comment absurd, however I am glad you made a lot of money and your kids are doing well.

You're a slave to the system, working jobs that you hate .

For that shit you don't need, It's too bad the world is based on greed.

PS

I noticed you joined when Bendix was banned.

And the same posting style.

well i'm not him ..... I haven't had an employer since before their was a such thing as a "windows" operating system , not all that long before but before. And I really am not all that materialistic and while I have designed and had people build me some stupid expensive cars I never really have been. We might have more middle ground or things we agree on than we think.

[StreetCowboy]

But Tommo....were you not recently mentioning you had 80b to your name until your ex came around to sponge off ??

If that was not you....then beat me with a paddle with my consent......but never enjoyment.

That was BJBKK .......... your paddle or mine?

I am so sorry...that could be quite an insult being accused of saying something that he said.

How bigs your paddle ??

Steady, boys, this is a public forum....

SC

By the way, you might want to swap one of those question marks for an apostrophe.

[sonicdragon]

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Elitist ? Yes, as a result of the UK government's policies on UK university funding over the last 15 years or so.

A Joke ? That's absurd - UK medical training is among the best in the world.

[sonicdragon]

Whilst I don't doubt the expertise of the British medical schools, the last couple of visits to NHS hospitals was truly awful.

Unfortunately the quality of care in the NHS has gone down in most people's eyes. This is a result of

1. Cuts in the NHS budget.

2. An increasing population.

3. A dramatic increase in the "compensation culture".

[sonicdragon]

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Training the doctors and nurses of the future is not a joke.

Most doctors and nurses that work for the NHS in the UK seem to be imported from overseas.

Easier and cheaper to train as a doctor in India then return to the UK to work.

The fact that some NHS doctors trained abroad does not take away from the fact that UK medical schools are among the most rigorous, effective and well-respected trainers of future medical professionals in the world.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

The main reason for the NHS employing foreign-trained doctors is supply and demand - graduates from UK medical schools still have close to 100% employment. However, many doctors who complete their foundation years in UK hospitals (F1 and F2) then go abroad for better employment opportunities or back to their home countries. This gap is then filled with doctors trained overseas. Currently there is pressure on the government to do something about this, as there are problems with both the standard of training and spoken English with some of these doctors. Having said that, it is quite rare for a doctor above the grade of "senior house officer" (which is still a junior doctor) to be trained overseas - those positions (registrars and consultants) are usually UK-trained and when you are treated in hospital your case is overseen by them.

[evadgib]

Of interest to anyone considering home schooling...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/9731580.stm

[CWMcMurray]

Well read through the posts and pretty much played out like I thought....

[tutsiwarrior]

here in Thailand I've made the childrens' education the number one priority but unfortunately I've found that 'you can lead a horse to water but...etc'...value systems have to change and I find that to be extremely difficult in a rural, rice farmer environment...and I scream and yell: 'you have the opportunity to study!! why don't you use it??!!' but it falls on deaf ears...a westerner's ignorance, I suppose...

so, I've pretty much given up the battle...so long as the kids are happy otherwise with their lives as adults then OK...

and my feeling is that if you remove children from their natural environment to force 'quality education' then it is counter productive...ye have to make do with the available resources...

Edited June 29, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[TravelerEastWest]

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

Exactly - end of story.

Good parenting is important but that should be a given and not part of this discussion.

Are the top international schools in Thailand expensive - yes; are they worth it - maybe yes, maybe no.

But they are the best education in Thailand (for children that will likely live abroad later in life) after the age of 4 or so. The value part of the equation is not important if you can afford it.

Sure travel is important and the chidren are living in Thailand which is a big part of traveling.

[StreetCowboy]

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

Exactly - end of story.

Good parenting is important but that should be a given and not part of this discussion.

Are the top international schools in Thailand expensive - yes; are they worth it - maybe yes, maybe no.

But they are the best education in Thailand (for children that will likely live abroad later in life) after the age of 4 or so. The value part of the equation is not important if you can afford it.

Sure travel is important and the chidren are living in Thailand which is a big part of traveling.

Whether they are worth it or not depends on what you have to sacrifice to send your children there. I am lucky I can afford a new tarpaulin for the lean-to, and still send the kids to school. But I'd not have them sleeping in the gutter to pay the school fees. Not in the rainy season

SC

[TravelerEastWest]

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

Exactly - end of story.

Good parenting is important but that should be a given and not part of this discussion.

Are the top international schools in Thailand expensive - yes; are they worth it - maybe yes, maybe no.

But they are the best education in Thailand (for children that will likely live abroad later in life) after the age of 4 or so. The value part of the equation is not important if you can afford it.

Sure travel is important and the chidren are living in Thailand which is a big part of traveling.

Whether they are worth it or not depends on what you have to sacrifice to send your children there. I am lucky I can afford a new tarpaulin for the lean-to, and still send the kids to school. But I'd not have them sleeping in the gutter to pay the school fees. Not in the rainy season

SC

I agree with you - and I hear you saying that personal values are involved in terms of sacrifice...

I used to live in Hawaii and there was a saying which translated to "For the sake of the children" Working long hours without vacations is something many feel is a great plan for the sake of their children.

In America one of the most importanta spects of buying a house is - what school district is it in?

Of course good schools being free is a bit of a myth in America - i went to a high school in California that had nice tennis courts, swimming pools, etc plus the usual advance placement classes and was very similar to the best international schools in Bangkok - but property taxes were quite high and large part of teh taxes went to the schools.

[McMagus]

Ok, my background. A teacher and principal in Oz for over 35 years. Taught in three different international schools here (2 of them top tier), taught in a supposedly fantastic Thai /British Bi-lingual school here. Now I am retired. I personally think the ENC could be better as it tends to be 'tick a box and move on', skimming across the curriculum. Most but not all international schools here are set up for one reason only... a money making business. The other problem with international schools is that Thai children come out not necessarily speaking brilliant English but also their mother tongue is sometimes poor because of lack of available time given. From my experience of the Thai education system it is an abomination and needs a major overhaul, starting with teacher training. As said previously, you are your child's first teacher never underestimate that. Give or try and provide your child with a deep and enriching experience; most of all the ability to think independently and the security of self esteem, confidence and a love for learning. My advice is shop around, shop around, shop around. I have seen tiny tots arriving at school at 6:00 in the morning, pulling a huge bag on wheels full of homework...and still at school 'learning' at 4:30 - 5:00 in the afternoon, with the Thai parents doing the homework and thinking that this is good education. Think carefully.... often the smaller schools are better... I know of one but not appropriate to name.... good luck, you are clearly a caring parent.