How To Avoid Questionable Characters

[Ijustwannateach]

I haven't done one of these types of lists for the gay subforum yet, so why not. As my thread about my ex- shows, I'm not exactly immune to the questionable characters myself, despite my best efforts and experience. However, though I sometimes fail to follow my own advice and listen to my own suspicions, I have some modest pride in being able to *give* fairly good advice along these lines, so here it is. A lot of it is fairly basic, but may help those who are new in town.

How To Avoid Questionable Characters While Dating Gay Guys In Thailand

A Mostly Common Sense Approach

Meeting People

1. Stay out of the gogo bars.

This one should be pretty obvious. It's not impossible that you might meet a "real" boyfriend in a gogo bar, but it might as well be.

2. Stay out of Soi 4; oh heck, stay away from Silom/Suriwong/Patpong entirely.

Once again, why screw up your odds? Yes, there are some nice/real people going to Silom and so forth, including of course you, my gentle reader- but really....

3. Stay out of gay bars in general.

Excluding present company, I'm afraid that simply being in a gay bar in Thailand is unusual and rare for many real gay guys- they don't have the time or the money, or they want to avoid stigma.

4. Do not use Internet chat rooms or personals sites.

There are far too many butterflies, MBs, "students," "kept" types, and crazies on these sites to make them good places for finding a "real" candidate.

5. Do not consider people you meet in saunas or parks serious candidates.

Another obvious one. People don't go to saunas and parks looking for serious connections with others.

6. Do not consider students serious candidates.

Even though they're cute, even though they're young, even though they're horny and they love you- they're just not worth the trouble. No money, uncertain future, and difficult to track.

7. Do not consider the unemployed serious candidates.

Another obvious one. Anyone who is unemployed in Thailand needs a good explanation of how they manage to stay alive (or at least how they did before you started taking care of them). Why add to the list of troubles for yourself?

8. DO keep your eyes open in public for those who looking at you with interest.

There are many very friendly and lovely gay guys all around who will readily indicate interest in you. Yes, even you, with your pot belly and grandfatherly look- that's what some of them like. Learn to notice and respond to these signals- look around when you're on the train, on the street (except Silom), in malls, at grocery stores.

9. DO chat and be friendly with attractive people who are obviously already working.

Some Thais are quite shy. If they are cute and seem gay, why not try to take the initiative? And if they're working somewhere that you're shopping or have business, you have a perfect excuse for the interaction- and you know they have a job.

10. DO ask your Thai friends to introduce you to nice people.

You *do* have Thai friends, right? Get them to help you out- but in this case, beware of your responsibility. You don't want your friend to lose face if you turn out to be a jerk.

11. DO make Thai friends.

This is sort of a prerequisite to number 10. Not all gays that you contact will be interested in you that way- and you can only have one boyfriend, anyway. Keep some of the rest as friends.

12. DO go to gay-attractive events such as film events, art exhibitions, and the performing arts.

Another place to find like-minded people with enough money and leisure for taste.

13. DO try to meet Thai university teachers/workers (not students).

This solves the education/job/intelligence side of the equation from the start.

14. DO consider Thai-Chinese partners if you can.

While not to everyone's taste, and bringing along with them certain stereotypical weaknesses, all signs point to their being among the best choice for stable relationships between foreigners and Thai nationals.

"Steven"

Edited January 10, 2006 by Ijustwannateach

[Scott]

Oh, your list is interesting, but what a boring existence!! I see nothing wrong with Silom (Soi 4 in particular--although I seldom go down there). A lot of the regulars may not be a good choice, but they will be dragging their friends down there and some of the newcomers. Gay people like to go to gay venues (at some point in time) and most will end up on Soi 4 or other venues at some point in time.

Another suggestion is have some ideas of what you realistically want in a relationship. Be honest with yourself and REALISTIC. Don't expect things from your partner that you can't do yourself.

Circulate, circulate, circulate. The more your out and about the more you meet people. Also, date, date, date--even if the "date" is only for coffee, lunch etc. Get to know people. They may not be right for you, but somewhere out there one of them has a friend who might be perfect.!

[flightcrew1]

Interesting!

Regarding your list. It's very obvious but let me comment on it.

1. Go - go bars. Sure - I only go there if I have out of town friends from US. It's a must cultural show as you know for overseas visitors.

2. Silom? Difficult to stay out of. It like living in SF and staying out of the Castro. Go to Soi 4 by yourself your asking for trouble - go with friends will that a different cup of tea as you won't be harrased.

3. Hmmm I don't agree but don't disagree entirely. Pharohs Karoke - though not my cup of tea has some nice boys who go to sing and have fun. My bf goes there and he quite educated and he goes with other cute single friends who also working good jobs.

4. I agree!! But when you first move here they are fun to chat on! Boring now!!

5. I agree as it very obvious!

6. I would agree except I have met other students and they decent and working hard for an education. Can I say boys from Chula, Thamsat, Kasetsart and Silapakorn are ok? Ask to see student id!

7. I agree fully on that one!

8. Yes for sure. The oddest places you can meet people. Food loft at Central Chidlom, the skytrain everyday. The gym for sure!

9. Yes do make the first move. Nice Thai boys are shy!

10. Thai friends for sure...living here you need them.

11. Hmmm I not sure about this one. The losing face is hard. If you break up well you will lose the friend and the bf. I have seen this happen many times.

12. Yes this is important and a great place to meet nice decent guys. Just pickup any of the free rags to see what's happening or especially important to pickup the Friday Bangkok Post weekend section as everything from seminars to gallery openings are listed.

13. This is easy. Again look in the free rags for plays, seminars and art openings at said universities and you sure to meet some!! Teachers that is....and of course students as well!

14. OH and I 100% agree with this one. They always working. They good with money. They have the right connections and they generally truthful!!!! My bf is Thai Chinese and so are most of my Thai friends. They always have money to travel and go out. They not stingy and they educated which is the most important for me.

That said most farang gay guys I think are here for the Issan guys which I also think are handsome but just not my cup of tea. I have seen too many of my friends "burned" by them. Again I don't want to generalize and I know this will stir the proverbial s##t but how many Thai Chinese money boys have you ever seen in Thailand? None by my count.

[Ijustwannateach]

Heh heh- you're right that keeping things perfectly "safe" can be boring, Scott- that's probably why so many of us fail at it so often! And yes, since *we* go to Silom, at least a few of the other guys there must be ok, too....

FC, thanks for the feedback- and I agree that Soi 4 is more fun with friends than as a singles arena!

I also should comment that I know exceptions to every single one of the rules on my list- I know guys who met great long-term partners at Babylon, in a park, online, students, unemployed, non-Thai-Chinese, etc., etc., etc. And I have also known Thai-Chinese guys who, while not moneyboys, were certainly very dodgy and weaselly types. So I don't claim my rules are any guarantee- they just give you the best odds. Mileage may vary!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Just re-read some of your message, flightcrew- you're right to make a bit of a distinction between the run-of-the-mill unis and the top four or five, but in my view it's still extra trouble dating uni students for all kinds of reasons and you're more likely to have problems than not- so I keep that on my list.

You're also right to point out that the *Thai* gay places have a better/more real clientele than the farang/tourist-oriented ones- but they're still dodgy and so I keep that on my list, too.

Here's something more to add to the list:

15. DO learn to speak Thai

I've found that in just about any country, the most sterling, salt-of-the-Earth types are often those who've never even considered dating a foreigner and have no particular English ability. To meet this group, you're going to have to go the extra mile and learn some Thai, but it will be worth it.

It's worth commenting further on this one. In more middle-class countries, like Japan, someone who speaks English well might do so simply because they were academically good at it in school, or needed it for business or travel. In Thailand, such a talent is unlikely to be coincidental, and usually indicates the speaker has had extensive contact with foreigners. This usually comes as a result either of being very rich, or not rich at all- and English-speaking skills in a poorer person should be viewed with some concern until they are explained. There *are* quite innocent and normal explanations- work in the tourist industry, open admission of past relationships with foreigners, etc., etc.- but any shyness about explaining English skills is suspect.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Vetting People

In some cases, the situation will provide certain necessary information about a person for you- for example, if you meet them when they are working, you will already know they are employed. This section is a basic list of what I consider it necessary to know about a person before you consider them as a good candidate for any serious relationship. Once again, this is mostly common sense, but there are a few twists and turns that might not be completely obvious to someone new on the Thai scene.

1. Nickname, Name, Age, Nationality, Ethnicity

Basic stuff, you'd think, but remember that most of the time you will be dealing with someone's nickname. It's both respectful and decent for you to inquire (and practice pronouncing, and remembering!) a potential partner's real full name. Age is also important, and in proper Thai social circles it is an significant element of one's social identity. Nationality and ethnicity are separate and important issues. If someone you've met is actually a semi-legal Burmese person with a purchased Thai name and passport, it might be important to know that. If someone is ethnically in a persecuted minority or otherwise not considered "real" Thai, it might also be important to know for a variety of reasons. I'm not suggesting that these are reasons *not* to date someone, but they should be open about such information by the time it has become clear they are dating you.

2. Job and Marital Status

We've already discussed the importance of dating the employed. Depending on how much money you yourself have and how you feel about being a primary earner or otherwise in a relationship, it may be more or less important how much money your partner is making- but it would be a mistake most of the time, in my opinion, for him to have no job at all.

You may wonder why I mention marital status- well, you'd be surprised how often Thai gay guys who are looking for foreign boyfriends suddenly turn up married with children after the relationship has begun to develop. Once again, for some people this might not be a reason NOT to date them- but certainly they should be honest and up front about this kind of detail before you are emotionally committed.

3. Family Information

You should find out the extent of the immediate family and what all of them do for a living, as well as most of the more important uncles and aunts. IMHO, it is not a good idea to date someone who is very closeted with their family, but this is a matter of personal opinion and there are many very nice guys who are closeted, especially in the slightly older generations.

4. Friends

It is just as important who the best friends of your partner are as who their family are- and it's important that they can accept you and that you can also accept them.

It should raise a major red flag with you if your partner claims to be completely in the closet with respect to his friends, and/or has no other gay friends. While this might very well be true, this is an old dodge by many to have excuses to hide their somewhat suspect private lives from you- and with no way for you to check or verify their stories or have social pressure on them to be faithful to you (very convenient for them, in other words).

5. Schedule

While not representative of the character of your prospective partner, it's important to get a clear picture of their regular work and social commitments. Since we're talking about "real" people here, it's not unlikely that they commute and/or work for up to 10-12 hours a day, and possibly only have one day off a week (or even 3 days a month)! You need to take a realistic view of how much time you can actually spend with this person, and whether or not this will be enough for you- remember to consider also how far they live from you and by what modes of transport. It may be necessary for you to do most of the commuting to visit THEM, if they are much busier than you.

6. Past History and Relationships

It's always useful to find out what kinds of relationships your prospective partner has had, and why they ended. Has he always dated foreigners, or only one or two? Is he interested in you only because you are a foreigner, or because of other factors individual to you? What does he consider important in a relationship, and how will both of you know when you graduated to a couple rather than just dating (the concepts can be very different for Thais and foreigners)? What kinds of rules are important to both of you in relationships? There aren't any hard and fast recommendations from me in this area, as it's so individual- but you SHOULD go through the process of discussing it before you realise that you've broken rules you didn't even know were operative.

7. Sexual Interests

If you have very specific or unusual sexual needs/interests, you may need to discuss them. Thais are quite shy about this; you are unlikely to be told by a partner directly something on the order of "I'm a bottom." Sometimes the best way to answer these questions is simply to get into bed and see how things go; most Thai guys are fairly willing to get to the physical side of things quickly, so it will probably be possible to get enough information about this before you've become committed in any serious way. If you're not compatible, then at least the two of you will be on the road to friendship- at least, if you make it clear that's the case. Many Thais, especially if young and inexperienced, may not realise that incompatibility in this area is a relationship-stopper for many people.

8. Red Flags

If any of the following issues come up, you should consider them red flags which should warn you off a serious relationship with a Thai until they are either properly explained or turn out to be harmless:

a. No job

b. No gay friends, especially no Thai gay friends

c. Good English but poor/uneducated background

d. Job at bar, karaoke, disco, or other gay or tourist-oriented business

e. Living beyond his means- for example, 4000B/month office job, but has a 20K baht mobile phone, designer clothes and wallet, and an expensive condo/apartment

f. Displays experience of foreign countries but not funds to match

g. Inconsistencies in information about his life or day-to-day activities

h. Student status but no money and no job and family not paying for it

i. Mysterious unexplained disappearances/gaps in schedule

j. Any part of the above information either doesn't check out or doesn't dovetail with real activities

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Actually, it's a line from that song, from that movie about Thailand that you can't see in Thailand:

GETTING TO KNOW YOU; GETTING TO KNOW ALL ABOUT YOU

Know your partner. The closer your relationship becomes - if you're becoming partners - the more you should each know details about one another. For years, back in Texas, I dated a Vietnamese disguised moneyboy. I never met his family, never went to his place of work, and only discovered his citizenship was Canadian after I peeled off several layers of lies.

Real boyfriend in Thailand: invited me to his place of work, where he really was asst. general manager, the first time we met. I met his mother, sisters, nephew, etc. He never told me a lie.

Even those who are gainfully employed in the moneyboy business can be startingly honest, like telling you their native village and inviting you to take them there.

Don't rely only on oral testimony. Look for an ID card, including student ID card. Have him write his real names in English letters. Get a history. Of course, be open about your own background, too. Trust must be built first of all on information.

If my remarks sound cynical, it's from being an IRS auditor and having to tell taxpayers during the audit of their tax return, "Well, sir, that's an interesting story, but do you have any documentation at all to verify your completely self-serving, unbelievable, incredible fantasy tale?"

[Ijustwannateach]

Heh heh heh... I always love the way you tell that one, PB...

I should also mention that my advice in this thread is NOT aimed at tourists or those who just want to have fun. For that group, a little illusion is just what the doctor ordered- you won't have time to step off Cloud 9 to see what's holding it up, and why should you bother?

I'm writing here for those who will be able to live long enough in Thailand (esp. Bangkok) to want the best chance of some sort of real, possibly lasting, relationship with a good guy.

Checking Up On People

As PB indicates, you can't/shouldn't take people just at their word on important matters. You should double- and triple-check their stories (with subtlety and flair, please) until you are satisfied that they pass these checks routinely. Here are some ideas for accomplishing this:

1. Talk To His Friends

It's hard enough for one man to keep a web of lies under control; you can hardly expect his gossipy friends to know what you're supposed to be told about him. A friend of mine recently found out from his date's friend that his date was actually married with children (a little thing which he had neglected to mention in their dating over a few months). This is one reason it is so important that you meet your candidates' friends- otherwise you'll never have any easy way of cross-checking his claims about himself.

2. Get To Know His Family

This is more or less along the same lines as the friends, only his family will know him so much more in some ways. If you are the umpteenth farang to visit their humble abode, perhaps that's something good for you to know.

3. Ask To See His Photos

He's a gay man- of course he has photos. See if there's anything that verifies his life story, his place of work, his education, and his past relationships. Ask clever questions about photos that give you any bad vibes.

4. Account For Lost Or Vague Time

Most real working Thais have to budget their time- they work at least as hard and probably harder than most of us do. They can't just suddenly take a couple of weeks off and "head to the country" every holiday. If this happens a lot, it may be a sign that you need to take a serious, hard look at whether the stories about employment are really true.

5. Ask To Visit His Office

A lot depends on what he does, but you can usually fit yourself in as some kind of English teacher or other educational associate.

6. Ask To See His Documents

Preferably after you have already shown him your own passport or other official documents (always good conversation pieces) which verify all of YOUR basic id info, ask him to show you yours... no, not that, naughty boy, you've probably already seen that- his Thai id card and/or uni id and/or company ids. It's always fun to look at these anyway, since they inevitably show your date looking even younger and cuter than he is now.

If HE has a passport, definitely peruse it carefully when you have a chance.

7. Surprise!

If the relationship is otherwise progressing fairly well, make a surprise visit to your date's home (if you are not living together) some weekend when you are not already scheduled to meet. After all, for Thais, dropping by unannounced is not considered rude. See how it goes.

8. Ask Your Friends About Him, And Listen

Love is blind, and lust is pretty darn near-sighted, too. Talk to your friends and see what they think of the guy. Remember that most of your friends will be too polite to give a direct answer about anything negative, so listen carefully and read between the lines.

9. Go To A Dodgy Place and See Whom He Knows

It's a bad sign if half the MBs in DJ Station come up to greet your guy and sponge a drink off him. Of course, it's a bad sign if half of them do the same to YOU, too, so be careful with this one!

10. If Overhanded Doesn't Work, Try Underhanded

Somewhat infamously, in my thread about my ex-, O., I relate a case in which through various excuses O. made it almost impossible for me to do the less extreme forms of checking him out- his friends were straight and I wasn't allowed to meet them, ditto his family, no regular job, etc., etc., etc. So I was forced to do some detective work- secretly looking in his bags and even his wallet when I could. Now, if you've followed my advice so far (which I didn't in regard to O.) you won't even reach this point, because you've chosen someone with a job and gay friends who isn't in the closet- right? right? But if you've let yourself get hooked by someone who just seems a bit too secret, start checking out his stuff for the truth and get yourself unhooked if you can.

"Steven"

[peter991]

To IJWT and PB, thanks for a very interesting topic. While I haven’t spent much time in Bangkok, I have spent a fair bit of time in Pattaya and also Issan.

I realize that the points you have raised are general ones and exceptions do apply. Fortunately, so far my Thai bf of 20 months and I are still together and our relationship is very strong. He was working in a bar when I met him. I have met his parents and friends and our house is now finished.

I would be interested to hear feedback from other Forum members on the topic of Thai guys and the Truth.

Not sure whether to start a new topic – but I also don’t want to hijack this one … so here goes.

The cultural divide is the major obstacle a westerner has to face when he does a Thai (male or female, for that matter). Values westerners are taught in Farangland do not often apply in Thailand.

When my Thai and I started our relationship, I stressed to him that I placed a lot of emphasis on The Truth. I asked him to always tell me the truth and I would do the same. I also said that if I made a promise to him – I would keep the promise.

This caused him to have a good think about our relationship. I think it’s also the only time that I lost my temper with him. He had trouble understanding why the truth was so important to me. Eventually he gave in and agreed.

In Farangland people get criticized because they are given too much information. I told my Thai bf there would be times he would tell me things that could hurt me about his past – but I would rather hear them first-hand from him.

He knows that if he lies to me – our relationship is over. I am very proud of him. Not even any ‘white lies.’

Peter

[Ijustwannateach]

Hey, Pete!

I think your point is perfect for this thread. I have been told that among Thais lies of omission are considered less "bad" in some way than lies of commission- in other words, if they deceive you simply by not telling you something that it is somehow less bad in their terms than telling you a direct lie. I haven't heard this from a Thai yet, so I take it with a grain of salt. But assuming for the moment this is true-

Perhaps it's simply my lack of integration into Thai culture, but I find myself unable to discern the different shades of grey in this case. Lying and deceit are lying and deceit, and decent behavior is decent behavior. I somehow don't see how it makes things better to excuse those who deceive by saying, "oh, well, it's just their culture."

However, it seems well documented and observed by many foreigners that their Thai partners are prone somehow to deceiving them- you could chalk a bit of it up to communication errors or cultural differences, but this is not the first foreign country I've lived in and this trend is NOT common to the other places I've been. One could, I suppose, argue that people are just as deceptive in other places as here, but that they simply cover their tracks better, but that's hardly complimentary either: "they don't lie more than other countries, but they are more incompetent at it."

Whichever way the truth is- that Thais lie more frequently or less competently- I think the double- and triple-checking of a prospective partner's stories about himself are more important in Thailand than in certain other countries, if such things matter to a person. Once again, this is of no concern to someone who's simply out to have fun.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

I've learned a couple of new tricks about the hazards of dating certain kinds of questionable Thai guys, and it's time to update this thread with addenda (if not to say pudenda):

More Signs of Questionable Behavior

A. Mystery Money

This issue is one of the hardest to untangle, because it is entirely true that a lot of Thais will routinely borrow and lend from one to the other, to get them through hard times or to make a quick but expensive purchase. In this respect, I'd say Thais can be among the most generous people I know, though if the money is lent, some form of reciprocation or at least obligation is expected. Thais who constantly borrow without returning some kind of support to their friends are not appreciated and at the least get a bad reputation, if they are not shunned outright.

Even I have borrowed from Thais before, and I have made sure to return the money promptly and at the first possible opportunity.

This financial cloudiness can make establishing an actual income level for a prospective partner quite difficult, as a large percentage of the population live on what apparently would be an impossible salary- but make do because they use the busses, eat cheap food or cook or have food provided by the employer or family, and share impossibly small apartments with unlikely numbers of family members and friends.

Recently, someone I was dating asked me if I would give him a 15,000B birthday gift for a trip to Singapore with the tourism class he's in. Leaving aside the question of whether I have 15K baht for such a purpose, or if I would be willing to give it to him, or if such a trip actually exists and it is really a class trip rather than a sneaky way of attending one of Singapore's big gay parties on my tab- I simply told him I didn't have the money. His mistake, however, was to respond "ok, I will pay by myself."

"How?"

"With my salary."

"But your salary is barely enough to cover your expenses. In fact, I'm already helping you with a few of your expenses."

"Oh, well, I'll get government scholarship money to go."

"Since that amount is several times your monthly school fee, I seriously doubt the government is in the business of funding such trips."

"Ummmmm... borrow from my friend?"

Obviously he hadn't thought this far into the conversation, but an unattributed source of 15,000B is a serious red flag in dating Thais. Government scholarships are indeed available, but must be paid back and I really, really doubt they are ever used for school trips to Singapore. I could be wrong.

B. Overly Active Internet Dating Life Continues

Some Thais don't seem to realise that once you have a boyfriend, use of websites geared towards finding sex partners or dates should probably stop. I actually know foreigners who tolerate this for some reason, but I'm not one of them.

C. The Platonic Boyfriend

I have seen a number of cases here in Thailand where a relationship, started in a flurry of sex and erotic heat, just as quickly settles into a very humdrum, asexual rut in which one partner (usually the Thai) constantly complains of being too tired, too ill, etc. to have sex. If the other partner accepts this for long enough, he will have a Platonic Boyfriend, who may be very loyal, supportive, affectionate, and helpful around the house, but who will not put out. This is not a situation to be encouraged.

D. Making Appointments With Dutch Sex Tourists Who Take Erotic Photos Of Moneyboys

I realise I'm getting very specific here, but if you're a young Thai man, may I emphasise that this is a really bad idea if you are already supposedly in a committed relationship with a foreigner... Just trying to be helpful, I'm not bitter at all!

Submitted respectfully to the Expat Community of Thaivisa in the spirit of the continuing arms race between dodginess and the searing light of daunting truth,

"Steven"

[dukkha]

I find such listings of traits, call them what you will, almost antiseptic, when will people be able to come to terms with meeting people...red flags, blue flags, white flags....give me a break....we are on about cross cultural interaction, take it for what it means, difference!!! You bought the ticket, take the ride, this obsession with vetting etc. is depressing, guess that puts me out of the moderator stakes....aint got the stomach for it... dukkha

[jdinasia]

you KNOW my feelings about this ... and the timing of this poppingup again is ... well ....

As i look over the entire topic again ... well things become more and more clear. If you have the same types of experiences over and over again .... you just must look to see what the common denominators are.

Often it will be WHERE you meet someone ... but sometimes ... it will just be YOU.

[Ijustwannateach]

There is no rule here against discussing this kind of issue. It's a perfectly legitimate topic and affects a large number of foreign expats and relative newbies in Thailand, not to mention a number of experienced persons. Sorry if it is unpleasant to some people; I suppose you're perfectly free not to read it. I have had these sort of "we shouldn't talk about these topics because I don't like them" exchanges on a number of threads with a certain recent poster on this thread, and I have always been supported by the mods in my open expression of my opinions, thank goodness.

I suppose if you feel there is truly anything objectionable in this thread you could always report it to the administration, by all means. I have no desire to break any rules of the website and always abide by decisions of the moderators.

"Steven"

Edited August 6, 2006 by Ijustwannateach

[Ijustwannateach]

P.S. No one has mentioned that I obviously broke my own rule:

6. Do not consider students serious candidates.

Even though they're cute, even though they're young, even though they're horny and they love you- they're just not worth the trouble. No money, uncertain future, and difficult to track.

So I'll give myself a big Som Nam NAAAAAAAA!!!!!

"Steven"

[Guest endure]

With all this 'vetting' going on, it's a wonder that some of you have any friends at all

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks for at least having a sense of humour in disagreeing with me, Endure!

Yes, as you say and I told myself... I probably deserve it!

Dhukka, everyone has different approaches to dating. I hope you can respect mine as much as I respect yours.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

A. The income level of your prospective or latest boyfriend. I was an income tax auditor, and can share some of the indirect methods of determining personal income, but it doesn't all translate. Style of living (we were the only enforcement agency to get Al Capone in prison, and that's basically how we did it). But really, what business is it of yours, unless he needs money, asks for money, or expects money? Then it's your business, and you're entitled to grill him with difficult questions, like a government auditor. But I assure you the best way to get honey out of a beehive is very, very gently.

B. One partner still in the dating game. What are the rules? Are they supposedly understood by both parties? And how often does the farang stay monogamous? "Honey, we need to talk. You have gik, chaimai?"

C. Different levels of sex. It can happen to any relationship, and it's almost predictable that it will begin hot and heavy, and one partner will soon be much less frequent. I say, deal with it quickly, but gently.

Keeping a relationship alive takes work by both sides. Some relationships aren't salvageable.

But we needn't be a gay queen to love drama....

And thank God and the Lord Buddha, that I got lucky and blessed and still have a great partner with whom we can discuss almost everything, like that new, funny, ghost-boy movie yesterday.

[Ijustwannateach]

Good post, PB.

(what's the name of the movie?)

[jdinasia]

With all this 'vetting' going on, it's a wonder that some of you have any friends at all

cheers to that!!

I am so glad that I don't need to paint the Thai people in my life into ugly little boxes. Strangely i haven't had all the problems that so many people seem to bring onto themselves.

Basically skip all the rules that you have seen in this thread .... and instead be a decent human being. Treat the people in your life with respect and insist on the same! Honor their privacy. Take real time getting to know someone! Dating ... not marraige! "Marraige comes after time!" Remember to have real standards for your own behaviour and that of the people you have in your life! Invest in love slowly!

If you take your time and get to know someone ... you'll avoid all these petty petty petty 'vetting' things entirely. How? In relationships that grow over time you just get to know the real person ... it is a natural process!

[noctiluca]

I find this topic very interesting. My guess is because it is universal, whether you are a man or woman, gay or str8, or in between. Well, at least I see the good intention on his part and why he posted this. And I do agree with some of his advice to some extent. It has its merit. Just simply think of them as precaution.

They are not rules, at least I hope. (Remember those stupid Rule Books, written by some girls a few years back? Look how it turned out.) They are more broad, general guidelines (which you are free to follow or not) of how to find a person suited for long term relationship, not just simply a one night stand kind of relationship.

I also agree that it may appear to be boring or unexciting, even unrealistic to some people. I guess it depends whether you really know who you are and what you want, at that point in your life. Whether you are honest with yourself and trust your partner (or try to, anyway), and vice versa.

Of course, there is no such thing as a guarantee in life, because life is full of complications. Even all the plans and preparations you may have, life still throws a curve ball at you.

Bottom line is what do I know about sex, life, and relationship (enough to be an expert)??? Probably not much! 5555555555..........

[Scott]

Here's the thing, pure and simple...."Birds of a feather, flock together." Don't isolate yourself. You can meet good people in the park, at saunas, certainly on Silom Soi 4 (as well as others).

Remember that being gay isn't the same as being straight. There are less numbers and with a certain amount of social stigma attached, fewer "decent" opportunities to meet. So meet people where you can, but use your better judgement.

Remember some of those others that don't frequent any of those places are serious closet cases with some very serious issues.

[TopChinese]

Wonder how many of you well meaning Farangs will pass the same "vetting" tests... if we asians start doing the same to you guys.

[PeaceBlondie]

I still love the Rodgers and Hammerstein songs from a certain fictional, not-to-be-taken-seriously, unmentionable musical. The English teacher from England comes to some far-away unmentionable country, and falls in love with the married father of one of the students. One of the songs says, "Getting to know you, getting to know all about you. Getting to like you, hoping that you'll like me, too."

That get-acquainted period goes both ways, as Top Chinese points out. Maybe, an Asian young man makes an honest attempt to enjoy a farang and we come out ranking low in truly desirable attributes. And of course, in that process, we categorize. We all do that.

[jdinasia]

TC ... in this case .... since you aren't Thai ... and don't speak the languge ... you would be lumped in with the white guys on this thread

Your learning curves will be the same as those of the white guys as well .... however .. you wil have a few more doors open to you just based on appearances .... since there is less social stigma attached to a younger Thai man with another asian guy

[Papa_Lazarou]

DO go to the Bangkok Film Festival. 2 yrs ago I met Val and Colin there. Last year I had the chance to meet Willem Dafoe, but I couldn't be assed.

You know what they say about Willem don't you? <If you don't I may tell you>

[Ijustwannateach]

No, tell us, tell us! (is he a questionable character? )

[Jai Dee]

A number of posts in this thread have been unapproved, pending review by a gay mod.

Please be reminded of the Forum Rules, and particularly the ones about inaccurate, aggressive, and flame posts... as well of course discussion of forum moderation.

Thanks for your understanding.

[Papa_Lazarou]

Willem Dafoe reputedly has one of the biggest tallywackers in the movie industry.

Most stars don't try to downplay such gossip. Toby Maguire did on account of the fact that he was photographed sittting next to Leo (ahem) diCaprio, at the time his uncovered parts got snapped.

For the record, its said that clogdancer Michael Flatley has the biggest testicles in showbusiness.

[Papa_Lazarou]

I still love the Rodgers and Hammerstein songs from a certain fictional, not-to-be-taken-seriously, unmentionable musical. The English teacher from England comes to some far-away unmentionable country, and falls in love with the married father of one of the students. One of the songs says, "Getting to know you, getting to know all about you. Getting to like you, hoping that you'll like me, too."

Trivia quiz:

Who is the movie star who is the great nephew of that same lady?

Answers anyone?

....Boris Karloff.

(he played Frankenstein's monster)