How To Avoid Questionable Characters

[pukkagent]

Just a note from your first paragraph ..... the 'advertisements' glued to these pages are placed by google based upon the content of the page. <<ie. Thai Brides>>

I didn't realise that! Thought it was funny. Anyone ever see that movie with Nicole Kidman called Birthday Girl?

http://film.virgin.net/synopsis/synopsis.a...trailersarchive

(about the mail order Russian bride who's part of a con-artist team)

It's not really a good idea apparently... A warning to you nice guys, maybe that should be another thing on the list, "Avoid mail order brides/boys"

I'm the last person in the world to comment on looking for brides on the internet. I met my partner on the internet!

I'm relishing English speak. The only person I talk to properly out here is my partner, and I think this is the first time I've debated how and where I'm living, with people who are living here too.

Anyone ever feel disjointed because they're neither Thai, or proper Farang's anymore? It's hard making new friends at first I think, but I'm not totally lost. I think you can only count yourself a proper farang if you've been in the country for a really short holiday period most of the time. If you live here, you're too aware of everything to be consider yourself farang.

Hope you all are having good luck finding nice boyfriends over here! I feel weird in the boy bars, coz I don't know where to put my face when I have so many lads staring into my face so 'meaningfully' and longingly, when they're wearing nothing but briefs and white trainers. Definitely a recipe for whoa to come by if you want something more meaningful.

[popshirt]

Sorry to see you go, Steven. I have enjoyed your posts, including thinking about your "list" and also the list provided by Top Chinese. Both were provocative in a positive way, even though I didn't agree with many of the points contained therein. Hope you come back soon.

[Papa_Lazarou]

Having read his swansong, I have to say IJWT is wasted in teaching. He'd make a good corporate lawyer specializing in drafting legal prospectuses for initial public offerings and/or credit derivative documentation.

...however he wouldn't know what to spend all the fabulously high salary on, so perhaps not.

[TopChinese]

And here I am, a corporate lawyer specializing in drafting legal documents for major institutions and contributing to this forums on my own time. Not to mention spending a sizeable portion of my supposedly fabulous salary on Babylon entrance fees.

All in the name of looking for sex.

As JD have so rightfully pointed out, my options in Thailand are limited. Understandably so. What could a jaded and cynical Chinese like me, offer to anyone in this wonderful city when they are surrounded by so much more? How do I compete with the lovely Isaan boys parading on stage at Future Boys last Sunday night for the "Mr 7 Inch" contest?

I love Bangkok because there is so much more there. So many options. I've met some fantastic guys in Bangkok that have set my fantasies aflame. Setting up home together in Lad Prao/Thonbury, I'll do the carpets and antiques if he does the cooking, dinner parties with our Thai/farang friends. In my short trips there, I experience more in a span of 3 days than I do in a whole week of working here in Singapore. This is why I keep coming back to this forum.. living vicariously through all of your experiences.

And no, I have not met my own Mr/Msieur/Herr Perfect yet... doesn't mean I can't hope. And boy.. do I have plans...

Edited August 18, 2006 by TopChinese

[DUMPSTER]

the "Mr 7 Inch" contest?

Is that all? Shame

[jdinasia]

And here I am, a corporate lawyer specializing in drafting legal documents for major institutions and contributing to this forums on my own time. Not to mention spending a sizeable portion of my supposedly fabulous salary on Babylon entrance fees.

All in the name of looking for sex.

As JD have so rightfully pointed out, my options in Thailand are limited. Understandably so. What could a jaded and cynical Chinese like me, offer to anyone in this wonderful city when they are surrounded by so much more? How do I compete with the lovely Isaan boys parading on stage at Future Boys last Sunday night for the "Mr 7 Inch" contest?

I love Bangkok because there is so much more there. So many options. I've met some fantastic guys in Bangkok that have set my fantasies aflame. Setting up home together in Lad Prao/Thonbury, I'll do the carpets and antiques if he does the cooking, dinner parties with our Thai/farang friends. In my short trips there, I experience more in a span of 3 days than I do in a whole week of working here in Singapore. This is why I keep coming back to this forum.. living vicariously through all of your experiences.

And no, I have not met my own Mr/Msieur/Herr Perfect yet... doesn't mean I can't hope. And boy.. do I have plans...

Nice Post TC ....

We all hae our reasons for being here and frankly none are more or less valid than anyone else's. My best farang friend in Thailand is unapologetic about his lifestyle and is a regular in the bars in Pattaya. So What?

We all do life differently ... thanksfully he's respectful of the people that come into his life be it for an hour or as friends ....

Now if we ALL could be that ay!

[boybrat]

oh dear, topchinese. never ever seek out to find yrself a partner. when it comes, it comes. and boy oh boy. you do have plans for yr future relationship, no? dont plan things too early. youll only end up disappointed.

heck. theres still a smidgen of hope that ill finally find mr right one day. yes, even me!

so quite whining, buy those jimmy choos and take each day as it comes. if it happens , it happens.

and never ever go for second best. you CAN have your cake and eat it too.

perhaps it about time u stop going to babylon and start going to bed supperclub/cafe 4/ art movies at the alliance francais, etc.

Edited August 18, 2006 by boybrat

[jdinasia]

i think someone was expecting ....THIS kind of response to a dramatic departure ....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=79853&hl=

[TopChinese]

Didn't work... what was the message, JD?

[jdinasia]

oooops was deleted ..... Bambina was gonna leave the forum and had SCADS of people saying "don't go .. you are useful and we like you"

she's staying ... some &lt;deleted&gt; were picking on her because she's a tranny ...

[boybrat]

oooops was deleted ..... Bambina was gonna leave the forum and had SCADS of people saying "don't go .. you are useful and we like you"

she's staying ... some &lt;deleted&gt; were picking on her because she's a tranny ...

have never messaged her . but i like that girl! bams sweetie. whereever u are, ull always know that i will be here whenever u need to go shopping for yr new manolo blahnik mules and lacroix frocks!!!

i think she's FAAABBUUULOUSSS!! xoxoxoxoxox

[DUMPSTER]

I am abandoning this subforum.

"Steven"

Ah the good old days. Unfortunately it didnt last long. Your word isnt really worth much.

Threw your dummy out and they make you a mod.

[Ijustwannateach]

I will consider returning when (if) I feel that conditions are more suitable for mature and polite discourse....

I feel these conditions may indeed now be more suitable.

[Ijustwannateach]

How about a case study?

I recently met a young man at my gym, which is a relatively expensive place- not the expected hangout of the most dubious types, anyway, although I should probably mention that my ex-bf, O., is also a member at my gym.

Anyway, it's a pretty Thai place. There is a minority membership of foreigners, and a few dedicated staff members can function in English for administration and training- but far and away its profit mainly comes from its middle-to-upper class Thai membership.

This guy, a 25yo- let's call him G.- had been glancing and flirting with me in classic "light-flirty" mode for a week or two. He was cute, but not over-the-top handsome- someone who could be good boyfriend material eventually, I thought. Eventually, he initiated conversation with me (under the guise of suggesting a new way for me to lift on a machine). I took the hint and we let the conversation move on to general matters. Before I left that day, we exchanged phone numbers (I think he deliberately hung around after his workout was finished, too). He mentioned he lived in his own apartment not far from my own.

1st Date:

We had Japanese, nothing too fancy. I was pleased that he enjoyed foreign food, too- in fact, he was very, very fond of foreign food. He mentioned that he was a service staff guy at a big hotel downtown. His English was ok, but not super-fluent. He had a gold ring and a gold amulet. His dress was cute without being overly flashy.

We hadn't actually discussed the "gay" thing until this date. (I think it was obvious to both of us what we were interested in). His dating past, as related by him:

1. He had dated one trainer at the gym but was dumped by him when the trainer found "a rich guy" who "took care of everything." So he was "heartbroken."

2. He had dated a number of foreigners, including occasionally guests at his hotel. He told one strange story in which he had dated a foreigner who stayed here but wound up leaving him for his brother.

3. He had dated some Japanese.

While we were waiting for the movie to begin, he got two different calls from foreigners- one was in English, another was from a Japanese guy calling from Japan. He didn't show any embarrassment or reluctance to take the calls.

He asked me if I wanted to know about the calls- I say "up to you." He told me they were various friends of his, without really saying more.

After the movie, we went back to my place just a couple of hours. Oddly, he seemed unfamiliar with the BTS, although he worked in a major part of Sukhumvit. "Actually, I usually take taxis to work and home because I am so lazy." At my place we talked and had coffee. I asked him what kind of guys he was looking for. His response: "Just be yourself. If you are yourself and I like you then it's ok." I tried again: "Well, you were dating a gym trainer before me. Don't you like someone who is a little slim and fit?" "No, it doesn't matter."

He has an arrangement with a college to do weekend study towards a marketing degree. He was in fact carrying marketing books in his bag, which he showed me.

So far, so good. He said he wanted to go a little slowly in his next relationship. He joked once or twice- did I want to be his boyfriend? He mentioned his job gave him a low income.

Good Signs:

1. No sex on the first date, going slowly

2. Seems sure of himself, independent spirit

3. Cute (naturally)

4. Already has own apartment, gym membership

5. Already has job, aspiring for more education

Warning Signs:

1. Constant calls from foreigners which he feels compelled to take in the company of a date

2. Likes me... why? No specific reasons were ever given, though he was fishing for compliments from me.

3. Low income and high expenses. At an estimate, his salary is roughly 10K *max*- I know this because I have friends who work in hotels here (10K would be more like a managerial salary, not a service worker, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt). His apartment will cost him 5K (alone, he said). And 7 days a week he takes taxis everywhere because he is "lazy." From his home to work it costs at least 50B a trip, twice a day. That's 3000B a month plus, just on taxis. So taxi plus apartment leaves just 2K a month to live. He has an expensive mobile phone, and doesn't appear to mind spending a bit on food, grooming, etc. I think it's a stretch, financially.

What do you guys think? I'm still sitting on the fence myself, but inclined to think he's got a few foreigners sending him income.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

What's that I hear in the near distance? Could that be alarm bells ringing? Yes, it could be.

In Chiang Mai, 2-star hotel supervisors make about 7K.

Fling for an evening? Sure, why not. Long-term relationship? Not if you want to go through the O. shenanigans again.

Why must the farang who are over 30 or 35 or 55 years old, always insist on their LTR candidates being under 25 and gorgeous? Sure, you might get lucky long term, but it's not that likely.

Just one man's jaded opinion.

But, I like that idea of not having sex on the first date. Maybe I'm still old-fashioned. But I was so much older then, when I was under 25.

[jdinasia]

It's another list!

[boybrat]

How about a case study?

I recently met a young man at my gym, which is a relatively expensive place- not the expected hangout of the most dubious types, anyway, although I should probably mention that my ex-bf, O., is also a member at my gym.

Anyway, it's a pretty Thai place. There is a minority membership of foreigners, and a few dedicated staff members can function in English for administration and training- but far and away its profit mainly comes from its middle-to-upper class Thai membership.

This guy, a 25yo- let's call him G.- had been glancing and flirting with me in classic "light-flirty" mode for a week or two. He was cute, but not over-the-top handsome- someone who could be good boyfriend material eventually, I thought. Eventually, he initiated conversation with me (under the guise of suggesting a new way for me to lift on a machine). I took the hint and we let the conversation move on to general matters. Before I left that day, we exchanged phone numbers (I think he deliberately hung around after his workout was finished, too). He mentioned he lived in his own apartment not far from my own.

1st Date:

We had Japanese, nothing too fancy. I was pleased that he enjoyed foreign food, too- in fact, he was very, very fond of foreign food. He mentioned that he was a service staff guy at a big hotel downtown. His English was ok, but not super-fluent. He had a gold ring and a gold amulet. His dress was cute without being overly flashy.

We hadn't actually discussed the "gay" thing until this date. (I think it was obvious to both of us what we were interested in). His dating past, as related by him:

1. He had dated one trainer at the gym but was dumped by him when the trainer found "a rich guy" who "took care of everything." So he was "heartbroken."

2. He had dated a number of foreigners, including occasionally guests at his hotel. He told one strange story in which he had dated a foreigner who stayed here but wound up leaving him for his brother.

3. He had dated some Japanese.

While we were waiting for the movie to begin, he got two different calls from foreigners- one was in English, another was from a Japanese guy calling from Japan. He didn't show any embarrassment or reluctance to take the calls.

He asked me if I wanted to know about the calls- I say "up to you." He told me they were various friends of his, without really saying more.

After the movie, we went back to my place just a couple of hours. Oddly, he seemed unfamiliar with the BTS, although he worked in a major part of Sukhumvit. "Actually, I usually take taxis to work and home because I am so lazy." At my place we talked and had coffee. I asked him what kind of guys he was looking for. His response: "Just be yourself. If you are yourself and I like you then it's ok." I tried again: "Well, you were dating a gym trainer before me. Don't you like someone who is a little slim and fit?" "No, it doesn't matter."

He has an arrangement with a college to do weekend study towards a marketing degree. He was in fact carrying marketing books in his bag, which he showed me.

So far, so good. He said he wanted to go a little slowly in his next relationship. He joked once or twice- did I want to be his boyfriend? He mentioned his job gave him a low income.

Good Signs:

1. No sex on the first date, going slowly

2. Seems sure of himself, independent spirit

3. Cute (naturally)

4. Already has own apartment, gym membership

5. Already has job, aspiring for more education

Warning Signs:

1. Constant calls from foreigners which he feels compelled to take in the company of a date

2. Likes me... why? No specific reasons were ever given, though he was fishing for compliments from me.

3. Low income and high expenses. At an estimate, his salary is roughly 10K *max*- I know this because I have friends who work in hotels here (10K would be more like a managerial salary, not a service worker, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt). His apartment will cost him 5K (alone, he said). And 7 days a week he takes taxis everywhere because he is "lazy." From his home to work it costs at least 50B a trip, twice a day. That's 3000B a month plus, just on taxis. So taxi plus apartment leaves just 2K a month to live. He has an expensive mobile phone, and doesn't appear to mind spending a bit on food, grooming, etc. I think it's a stretch, financially.

What do you guys think? I'm still sitting on the fence myself, but inclined to think he's got a few foreigners sending him income.

"Steven"

###### him once toss him away. if he's good, make him a regular ###### buddy..jeesus. honestly, hon, its just not worth the drama.

[Guest endure]

He gave you the finest piece of advice you'll ever get although he perhaps didn't realise it:

"Just be yourself. If you are yourself and I like you then it's ok."

He could have gone on to tell you to stop writing shopping lists but no-one's that perfect

You ought to take heed of Shirley Conran too: "Life's too short to stuff mushrooms"

[TopChinese]

You ought to take heed of Shirley Conran too: "Life's too short to stuff mushrooms"

######.. all this time I've been stuffing them mushroom heads in me mouth... shudda known...

Funny how he had measured the worth of a thai guy by how much he's worth... when I'm dating someone, I prefer to look at pedantic things like his eyes, his ability to hold a conversation about sex and the Pope, how good he feels, whether he cuddles in bed or eats the breakfast I make him in the morning. Guess I'm just a romantic.

[Ijustwannateach]

*ahem*

If by "he", you mean "me," TC- the way I measured my new friend's worth was in the "good points" listed above, if indeed I was measuring his worth [not the way I thought of it, actually].

I brought up the warning signs because they are legitimate things to worry about (at least for a few of us). In the case of the economic one you pointed out- can you speculate how he is making a living? As PB mentioned, I was being generous guessing that his income was 10K; it's probably more like 6-8K. The numbers don't add up. He may be a very worthy young fellow indeed, but chances are his lifestyle makes no economic sense. There could be a number of reasons for this, but it is a worrying piece of information. Or wouldn't you be worried if you noticed this about someone you were considering dating? Wouldn't any of you?

It's nice to be romantic, TC. But after you've seen the eyes, had the conversations, and done the cuddling, eventually you want to get real, economically as well as romantically. BB and PB are right. This guy may have potential as an acquaintance for fun, but unless I want another drama about hidden lifestyles, he's not good boyfriend material.

Endure, you may also be right- and in that respect, maybe Warning Sign #2 is just me "thinking too much." As my relationship with O. showed, having hidden lifestyles doesn't prevent someone from genuinely liking you.

Coming soon: Date#2

"Steven"

[jdinasia]

He gave you the finest piece of advice you'll ever get although he perhaps didn't realise it:

"Just be yourself. If you are yourself and I like you then it's ok."

He could have gone on to tell you to stop writing shopping lists but no-one's that perfect

You ought to take heed of Shirley Conran too: "Life's too short to stuff mushrooms"

Cheers to that!

[Ijustwannateach]

Between the first and second dates, I consulted several persons, both Thai and farang. Below are their comments, transcribed as accurately as I can remember them.

Farang#1, fluent in Thai, over 10 years living and working in Thailand: "Yes, he sounds very dubious. Most likely you'll find out rather soon what he's really interested in. Play it poor and he'll lose interest, I think."

Farang#2, partly fluent in Thai, 5 years living and 20 years visiting Thailand: "Isn't it obvious? It's O. all over again. Don't waste your time."

Thai#1, a hotel worker in his twenties: "I'm sorry to say, but I think he sounds like some kind of moneyboy. But you can't ask him about his money. That's not polite. Just make an excuse not to see him."

"How about if I tell him I like his friendship so much at the gym I don't want to spoil it?

"That's good."

Thai#2, a student: "I think gyms are expensive; I've never gone there. Maybe your friend has some "giks" or something. But maybe you will be lucky."

"Steven"

[boybrat]

You ought to take heed of Shirley Conran too: "Life's too short to stuff mushrooms"

######.. all this time I've been stuffing them mushroom heads in me mouth... shudda known...

Funny how he had measured the worth of a thai guy by how much he's worth... when I'm dating someone, I prefer to look at pedantic things like his eyes, his ability to hold a conversation about sex and the Pope, how good he feels, whether he cuddles in bed or eats the breakfast I make him in the morning. Guess I'm just a romantic.

tc: u make breakfast???im terribly surprised. i usually want my "friends" out the door before the cumrag dries! unless or course he's really cute and worth an early morning romp.

anyway. ijwt: just tell him the truth, bro. tell him that you think he's hot and nice and all that but u question the source of his income. show him yr cards. what the world needs less now is games.ie. mindgames. at least he knows where he stands and if he really is a kept boy, he knows that u know. taadaahhh.

telling the truth is dirty work but its better to clear the air before the pain festers. what i really hate as in HATE are white lies. id rather have the whole truth, no matter now painful rather than being cushioned by sugarcoated white lies. im sure he can take it, hes a big boy. if he cant, tough.

Edited September 6, 2006 by boybrat

[Ijustwannateach]

I think TC sounds *very* domestic, from several posts he's made. It's a quality I can appreciate.

Thanks to most everyone for the advice so far. I'm a little bit ahead of y'all (second date actually already accomplished), and once I let you know how the rest of it went, you can tell me if you think there's any future in it.

BB, you have a novel approach- but Thais tend to, um, panic and run when you blow their cover, don't they? Losing face and all that. I think he'd have to be *very* westernised (or very shameless) for our friendship to survive my calling him a kept boy to his face, even if it was true. And if it *wasn't* true, that would be pretty much shooting the friendship in the head, too. Remember, I have to work out around this guy (and possibly his buddies).

"Steven"

[jdinasia]

well I can see where THIS thread is going ....... I thought this crap ended!

[Guest endure]

Be nice, boys.

[boybrat]

I think TC sounds *very* domestic, from several posts he's made. It's a quality I can appreciate.

Thanks to most everyone for the advice so far. I'm a little bit ahead of y'all (second date actually already accomplished), and once I let you know how the rest of it went, you can tell me if you think there's any future in it.

BB, you have a novel approach- but Thais tend to, um, panic and run when you blow their cover, don't they? Losing face and all that. I think he'd have to be *very* westernised (or very shameless) for our friendship to survive my calling him a kept boy to his face, even if it was true. And if it *wasn't* true, that would be pretty much shooting the friendship in the head, too. Remember, I have to work out around this guy (and possibly his buddies).

"Steven"

ijwt: kept boy, moneyboy, etc..if the show fits, bro. or there's a very slim chance that he could have come from a rich family. then ask him what his family does.

or just ask him that he seems to have a lot of moolah for a kid working in a hotel. remember, friendships are based on trust. if he's not willing to be honest, and if your friendship is based on lies, suspicion and dishonesty, then it truly reflects the sanctity of the friendship, no?

if he's stung by your queries, and does not speak to u again, screw it. think to yrself, how important is he in your life? will his departure affect yr life in any way? does his company add any value to yr current life? does this relationship have any long term benefits? from then you can distinguish whether will he make a good friend or is he merely an acquaintence.

i know its not romantic but it saves a lot of drama and heartbreak. lifes too short for drama. and being romantic is not the pragmatic thing to do.

trust me. i have lots of acquaintences whom im very chummy with. LOTS. but i dont mind losing any of them.

but i have only a FEW close friends whom im very close with and losing their company affect my life somewhat.

Edited September 7, 2006 by boybrat

[farang prince]

Between the first and second dates, I consulted several persons, both Thai and farang. Below are their comments, transcribed as accurately as I can remember them.

Farang#1, fluent in Thai, over 10 years living and working in Thailand: "Yes, he sounds very dubious. Most likely you'll find out rather soon what he's really interested in. Play it poor and he'll lose interest, I think."

Farang#2, partly fluent in Thai, 5 years living and 20 years visiting Thailand: "Isn't it obvious? It's O. all over again. Don't waste your time."

Thai#1, a hotel worker in his twenties: "I'm sorry to say, but I think he sounds like some kind of moneyboy. But you can't ask him about his money. That's not polite. Just make an excuse not to see him."

"How about if I tell him I like his friendship so much at the gym I don't want to spoil it?

"That's good."

Thai#2, a student: "I think gyms are expensive; I've never gone there. Maybe your friend has some "giks" or something. But maybe you will be lucky."

"Steven"

IJWT, you think too much. Do you have to fall in love with every guy you go to bed with? Elizabeth Taylor said that was her downfall. How about just letting this relationship work itself out without all the neurosis.

Edited September 7, 2006 by farang prince

[Ijustwannateach]

FP, the guy's a case study for this thread, not someone I have a lot of hope for in the future. I think part of my point is that without thinking, I might have wasted a lot more time on him than I did. 2 dates is a fairly inexpensive loss. Actually, from right after the first date and discussion with my friends, it was pretty clear to me that unless he had some good story to tell about his lifestyle, there was no way I would waste my time again. However, he's a nice enough fellow and I wouldn't mind having a friend at the gym. So my plan was to meet him privately one more time to set the basis for the friendship: i.e., to be friends, not anything more. I liked the version I told my Thai friend above: it's too nice to have a friend at the gym to risk messing it up, so let's just be friends.

"Steven"

[Espada]

FP, the guy's a case study for this thread, not someone I have a lot of hope for in the future. I think part of my point is that without thinking, I might have wasted a lot more time on him than I did. 2 dates is a fairly inexpensive loss. Actually, from right after the first date and discussion with my friends, it was pretty clear to me that unless he had some good story to tell about his lifestyle, there was no way I would waste my time again. However, he's a nice enough fellow and I wouldn't mind having a friend at the gym. So my plan was to meet him privately one more time to set the basis for the friendship: i.e., to be friends, not anything more. I liked the version I told my Thai friend above: it's too nice to have a friend at the gym to risk messing it up, so let's just be friends.

"Steven"

just pass by. hm...interesting.