ttelise Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 when there was the ecoli outbreak in germany, they also didnt know in the beginning what was wrong... but they didnt just say "dunno, next one"... for each and every victim they tracked down what they had eaten, where it was bought (most likely) and where it was grown... until they found the source of the ecoli bacteria in sprouts from a certain farm... THATS a big difference to thailand... they dont really investigate... either the killer loses their passport at the scene or the case cant be solved... We had similar thing here back in late 2008 with tomatoes and salmonella. They traced it back to Tomatoes grown maybe in Mexico. I cannot remember for sure, but they did trace it back to a specific location. Big issue and stores only sold vine ripened still on vine tomatoes because knew contaminated area did not ship vine ripened tomatoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Haha, you got your nose so far up Thailand's butt you cannot see what is patently clear. Even a law student from England who was there commented that it did not appear as if they were preserving crime scene very well. Did not do much to question witnesses. Made it sound as if note was found when they went back days later. First speculated food poisoning while mentioning Motrin over and over. Then made it sound as if bad shrooms while still mentioning "drugs" found in room, but no mention of note or looking for suspects until Scot girl gave interview. Interestingly, she said they had the Portuguese guy in custody and were questioning him. So they have him custody at one point, then later they act like they dint know who is. At first one guy on CCTV, then it's two. Haha, great job every step of the way, especially like how they go back several days later to do their investigation after room was disinfected. Then we have family saying cover up by way things were handled. I guess it's just their imagination too. Do you realize the press and internet posters are not part of the investigation? And that based on your conclusions of reports, that any reasonable person would know are only tidbits of information, it is fairly clear why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Enough squabbling about speculation.......time to sort through the red herrings thrown out by the BIB, and make a choice with the available somewhat fuzzy information that has been released to date. I am going on record here for >>>>>> Deliberate poisoning by a powerful compound. So now time to just wait for the Canadian results. Edited July 1, 2012 by EyesWideOpen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Mourners gather for Quebec sisters found dead at Thai beach resort http://www.canada.com/travel/Mourners+gather+Quebec+sisters+found+dead+Thai+beach+resort/6867673/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 just to add -most assume the 2x portuguese men went home to Portugal, if they are avoiding contact (on the run) I suspect they are not in their home country, the fact there has still be no activity reported regarding these two people it is most likely the case I still think they are key to finding out what happened - I'd like to know how long they were in Thailand - visa status - if their departure on that day was part of their plan or if it was a sudden exit, also how did they depart Thailand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Speculation on the cause of this tragedy has so far failed to consider the fact that the girls did not,or were unable to seek help.As some form of toxin is very high on the list of suspects,then one must consider a poison that causes motor paralysis as well as severe gastrointestinal ,cardiac and respiratory symptoms. It would therefore be premature to rule out organophosphate poisoning{used in insecticides},which in acute poisoning would provide a possible explanation. Also acute,severe poisoning by some varieties of mushroom would have very similar effects. In both instances a low blood cholinesterase level would help verify the cause--unlikely to have been performed,and definitely never mentioned in the Downtown Inn investigations. From a diagnostic point of view it is a tragedy that local investigators have virtually thrown in the towel in seeking an explanation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabel Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Enough squabbling about speculation.......time to sort through the red herrings thrown out by the BIB, and make a choice with the available somewhat fuzzy information that has been released to date. I am going on record here for >>>>>> Deliberate poisoning by a powerful compound. So now time to just wait for the Canadian results. If we ever get them ... ??? May never reach our ears no matter what they mayb be.... what do they call it ...?? "Selective memory " in this case "Selective disclosure" ... "let's not and say we did " Need to keep watching the Canadian medias to get the real results which I doubt will have anything relevant consdering the way the bodies were handled .... unfortunately............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Maaka Posted July 2, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2012 I Investigated the Chiangmai Hotel deaths on behalf of some of the victims families. I spoke with families, interviewed the survivors, had a qualfied man on the scene, and were in touch with labs around the world, and with people in high places. I viewed the intrim medical reports of one of the victims taken before she actually died. It was apparent even at that stage that she was dying, yet regrettably the hospital only administered metoclopamide and midazolam. She died the next day..I can confirm that that victim suffered from low blood count, needed a difib machine, and had loss the use of leg muscles, and need assistance from the hotel to ambulance..there are many things both medical and scene related that are never mentioned in the media, or the lengths that are taken to find the cause, and by who, or the role and pressure that embassies from around the world put on the Thai Authorities.. Many people just go off what they here or read, do some internet searching and come up with a wild guess. Some are not far off the mark, but until you know what occurred leading up to death and what followed, and view the crime scene you end up with a big blind spot...some suggest that now that the Canadian girls have been embarmed that Canadian Authorities will not find anything.. I am not sure what occurred in Thailand, but in the Chiangmai case tissue samples were taken, regrettably not enough taken to match against all known toxins, and that is mainly the reason why an answer was never found. But if I suggest to you that the Kiwi girls saw a sign in the foyer on arrival that chemical spraying of the rooms took place on the 1st of every month, the day before they and the Thai lady moved in, and that that sign disappeared not long into the investigation, and that there was never an answer as to what the pest company used, or how it was applied, and by whom, led me in a certain direction. .another fact never linked together in the media was that nearly all the victims were found dead on the floor outside the bathroom, or slept near the bathroom. Indeed, the least affected Kiwi girl was sleeping next to the air con unit where 60 Minutes found Cholopryofos, and the one that passed away was sleeping next to the bathroom, this news led me to focus on a certain area.. I cannot tell you how hard it is for a private investigator to gain assess to a crime scene in Thailand, particularly when a person high up has said it is coincidence..One needs to step outside the square to gain any traction, and watch ones back at the same time..in Short I can confirm that 11 rooms were tested in the Chiangmai affair, but alas it came back to the fact that there was not enough human tissue samples to test against the the possible toxins / pesticides /insectides/ chemical /drugs.. the Chiangmai case is alittle different in that the kiwi girls at Chiangmai never met anyone, no strangers, and never ate the same food..two of them shared a smoothy, and drunk bottled hotel water, and thats the only cross over..they arrived in the afternoon, had a walk arund, dipped their toes in the pool. ate at the market, went back to there room, showered and went to bed..The likihood of the Thai lady who died in the room next door, of having a smoothy from the same shop on the same evening is not impossible, but the chances of it happening are very low.. As to Phi Phi I would be focusing on the blue fingernails displayed on the victims, and sending samples of these, and hair, off for testing in Atlanta. These should not be affected by embarming. I expect the Canadian Embassy in BKK, lost a citizen in the Chiangmai affair and from what I know where on the Phi Phi case before the girls left the island. I can only hope that they learnt from the Chiangmai affair, and required ample tissue samples...I would also hope that the Canadian Embassy have Interpol locate the Portugese man for questioning. They have his name, and he is a suspect at this stage.. yes some toxins leave the body within 72hrs, but fingernails and hair last months.. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljones Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 "But if I suggest to you that the Kiwi girls saw a sign in the foyer on arrival that chemical spraying of the rooms took place on the 1st of every month, the day before they and the Thai lady moved in, and that that sign disappeared not long into the investigation, and that there was never an answer as to what the pest company used, or how it was applied, and by whom, led me in a certain direction." Imagine that. Someone thought it a good idea to try and hide the fact, poison was being used on a regular basis in the rooms where the mysterious deaths occurred. Don't the pest control companies keep a record of chemical used, rate of application, scheduled intervals, invoices, etc.? The Police should be all over that.(if they cared) I will guess that the bedbug complaints at this PhiPhi hotel prompted someone to spray the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) <snip> yes some toxins leave the body within 72hrs, but fingernails and hair last months.. Thanks for sharing all that. However, I don't think (but correct me if I am wrong) that hair and nails will be able to tell anything in terms of drugs, poison or toxins taken within 24-hours. The hair and nails stop growing upon death and for there to be any traces of anything in the hair or nails it would have had to been processed by the body and turned into dead cells which make up hair and nails. I know it takes about a week for hair to grow above the scalp and this is possibly why they don't use hair testing to test for recent drug use but rather rely on urine or blood tests. Again, correct me if my beliefs are wrong, I've just never heard of a hair test being used to check for recent drug or toxin intake. Even in death, I've only heard of coroner using it to determine past exposure or drug use. Edited July 2, 2012 by Nisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Maaka, thanks for the very informative information, nothing in your post surprises me in the least, I get the impression that Thai authorities either don't have training/skill to investigate such crimes and even if they did would be reluctant to dig too deep for fear of uncovering gross incompetence resulting in a lot of these deaths, I mentioned before in a thread relating to the Phi Phi incident that while renting a condo in Pattaya a guy used to knock the door with a spray bottle strapped to his back - I point blank refused to let him in the room In the west chemicals usage requires a licence and specialised training, I doubt very much that happens here, they spray stuff to kill bugs and kill people in the process, as someone mentioned when these chemicals are used in Hotels rooms they must remain unoccupied for a certain length of time - of course in thailand that ain't going to happen What puzzles me about this case is that only these girls seem to have fallen victim to what ever happened unless others were sick in the hotel and it hasn't been reported or covered up My focus as I've said repeatedly is on the Portuguese man that left without trace at a critical time during this debacle, he needs to be found and questioned to fill some gaps and rule himself out of this investigation, there may be moves going on in the background to achieve this but perhaps his wheresbouts are unknown at this time Edited July 2, 2012 by smedly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 if you have trouble with the guts, stomach, if you feel unwell, then the "best" place, the most convenient place to stay, is the floor... really, if you feel very very unwell, you will remain lieing on the floor, and it helps incredibly, when lieing on the belly... besides of that, its anyway much too exhausting to climb up and down the bed... seeking the aircon... you will do so in case of respiratory problems... if you have difficulty to breath, then there is nothing better than an aircon... maybe the girl didnt survive because of the aircon, but because she was for some reason less affected in the stomach/gut area, than the other girl, but more with the respiratory tract...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidu Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 When hotel rooms are sprayed for bedbugs, is it done by an expert or by hotel cleaning staff. My guess is the latter. Either way, the people spraying are not likely to wear proper filtering gear (Thai workers rarely wear safety gear on any sorts of jobs). In that case, whomever is spraying, stands a chance of getting poisoned. Are there reports of that happening - specifically at the hotel where the young women stayed? BTW, I make my own bed spray concoction, from 3 natural ingredients plus water. It works, and has a pleasant herbal smell (hom). Is there such an item on the marketplace (natural insecticide)? If anyone wants to contact me about the possibility of marketing my spray, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 what exactly is meant by "tipping their toes into the pool"... did they swim or not? this could be well an indicator, that water is involved... one american women died the same way, and she only used the hotels facilities...(pool etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljones Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Travel reports have verified the hotel had bed bug problems and bed bugs can build up resistance to the safer pesticides over time. The hotel management probably had a choice. Throw away the beds and remodel the rooms or blast them with strong chemicals. Edited July 2, 2012 by pauljones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I'm sure this doesn't happen in Thailand. But, ... http://thirstyblogge...laysian-skills/ The 4th picture shows some of the stuff used to add a little "zing"! Edited July 2, 2012 by Curt1591 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Given the circumstantial evidence, cholopryofos does seem a likely cause in the case of the Chiang Mai deaths, although fairly large amounts are usually required to be fatal, but do the symptoms of the Canadian girls point to this? I am not an expert but I am not sure that even large amounts of it would cause symptoms such as bleeding under the finger nails. There is quite a bit of literature on it from the US where Dow Chemicals used to market it for domestic use but was eventually forced to stop in most states. I think most of the deaths linked to it in the US were vulnerable people like children or the elderly who had an extreme sensitivity but then the Thai sprayers may use a more concentrated form and spray it more liberally than was done in the US where spraying on bedding was always contraindicated. I researched this after getting sick from exposure to the chemical myself. And, yes, the Thai workers who sprayed it wore only cheap masks like the ones Thai traffic police wear that just make them hot without keeping micro particles out of their lungs. The spraying company, an Australian franchise, didn't want to disclose what chemical they used at first to control ticks but with a little pressing they did. It was extremely effective in eradicating the ticks which had killed one of my dogs. Back to the topic. Wouldn't the bleeding symptoms be more consistent with an ingested poison like arsenic? Edited July 2, 2012 by Arkady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Given the circumstantial evidence, cholopryofos does seem a likely cause in the case of the Chiang Mai deaths, although fairly large amounts are usually required to be fatal, but do the symptoms of the Canadian girls point to this? I am not an expert but I am not sure that even large amounts of it would cause symptoms such as bleeding under the finger nails. There is quite a bit of literature on it from the US where Dow Chemicals used to market it for domestic use but was eventually forced to stop in most states. I think most of the deaths linked to it in the US were vulnerable people like children or the elderly who had an extreme sensitivity but then the Thai sprayers may use a more concentrated form and spray it more liberally than was done in the US where spraying on bedding was always contraindicated. I researched this after getting sick from exposure to the chemical myself. And, yes, the Thai workers who sprayed it wore only cheap masks like the ones Thai traffic police wear that just make them hot without keeping micro particles out of their lungs. The spraying company, an Australian franchise, didn't want to disclose what chemical they used at first to control ticks but with a little pressing they did. It was extremely effective in eradicating the ticks which had killed one of my dogs. Back to the topic. Wouldn't the bleeding symptoms be more consistent with an ingested poison like arsenic? Interesting ... Chlorpyrifos is moderately toxic and chronic exposure has been linked to neurological effects, developmental disorders, and autoimmune disorders. First registered in 1965 and marketed by Dow Chemical Company under the tradenames Dursban, Lorsban and Renoban. Chlorpyrifos was a well known home and garden insecticide, and at one time it was one of the most widely used household pesticides in the US. Facing impending regulatory action by the EPA, Dow agreed to withdraw registration of chlorpyrifos for use in homes and other places where children could be exposed, and severely restricted its use on crops. These changes took effect on Dec. 31, 2001.[8] It is still widely used in agriculture, and Dow continues to market Dursban for home use in developing countries. Dow's sales literature claimed Dursban has "an established record of safety regarding humans and pets."[9] In 1995, Dow was fined US$732,000 for not sending the EPA reports it had received on 249 Dursban poisoning incidents, and in 2003, Dow agreed to pay US$2 million – the largest penalty ever in a pesticide case – to the state of New York, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Attorney General to end Dow's illegal advertising of Dursban as "safe".[10] On July 31, 2007, a coalition of farmworker and advocacy groups filed a lawsuit against the EPA seeking to end agricultural use of the chlorpyrifos. The suit claims that the continued use of chlorpyrifos poses an unnecessary risk to farmworkers and their families.[11] In August 2007, Dow's Indian offices were raided by Indian authorities for allegedly bribing officials to allow chlorpyrifos to be sold in the country.[12] In 2008, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) imposed 1000 ft buffer zones around salmon habitat to protect endangered salmon and steelhead species. Aerial applications of chlorpyrifos will be prohibited within these zones.[13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpyrifos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidu Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 'bleeding under the fingernails' ......gadzeus, it must take some heavy duty poison to cause that. I'm no expert, but I have experimented with some herbal drugs (among other things). A couple times, there's been burning sensation in my liver area, I believe caused by alkaline poisoning. A few times, I've been poisoned by eating bad oranges. The black fungi (not always visible) caused extreme pain in left part of colon. Pain went away 40 minutes later. I'm not suggesting either of those types of poisoning were involved with the tragic deaths of the two young women in Phi Phi. Instead, am just throwing those thoughts out in hopes it might jangle some neurons of some folks (investigators?) to get a better handle on what may have happened. 'Inconclusive results' is too lame-brained and expedient a way out for Thai investigators. They've got to try harder to get to the root of the problem. Additionally, ALL Thais who plan to take up careers in investigative detective work and/or autopsies, need to go overseas and study the subjects. They can't cheat their way through exams overseas, and they'll be taught by those at the vanguard of those sciences. Refresher courses (again, taught by farang) should be mandatory for all Thais currently employed in those fields. Fail the tests, and you're out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 if it was cholopryofos, then the fatal effect is caused by the strong inhibition of Acetylcholinesterase... dont know, but this cause should have been easily found, as it reflects in the urine (mostly)? and the cure should be easy then? methyldopa, xylazine and clonidine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2820088 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Given the circumstantial evidence, cholopryofos does seem a likely cause in the case of the Chiang Mai deaths, although fairly large amounts are usually required to be fatal, .... The only thing pointing to chlorpyrifos was "doctor" McDowall. He went to the media with his "theory" and the news team ran with it. From that point on, even though New Zealand's top toxicologist said that fatal chlorpyrifos exposure was all but impossible, all other causes were all but ignored. In the end, the Thai report, which is not the same thing as "the international findings", told everyone what they wanted to hear, without directly blaming anyone. As far as I know, the actual "international findings" were never released. BTW, "doctor" McDowall is a PhD in engineering, not an MD, toxicologist, or pathologist. Edited July 2, 2012 by Curt1591 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) with chlorpyrifos one comes to "acetylcholinesterase inhibitors" and from ther eto "muscarinic agonists"... i dont understand what is behind that, but muscarinic effects occur from mushroom poisonings... http://chestofbooks....-Poisoning.html Arsenic trioxide exposure significantly decreased the activity of cholinesterase http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16705804 Edited July 2, 2012 by dingdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Given the circumstantial evidence, cholopryofos does seem a likely cause in the case of the Chiang Mai deaths, although fairly large amounts are usually required to be fatal, but do the symptoms of the Canadian girls point to this? I am not an expert but I am not sure that even large amounts of it would cause symptoms such as bleeding under the finger nails. There is quite a bit of literature on it from the US where Dow Chemicals used to market it for domestic use but was eventually forced to stop in most states. I think most of the deaths linked to it in the US were vulnerable people like children or the elderly who had an extreme sensitivity but then the Thai sprayers may use a more concentrated form and spray it more liberally than was done in the US where spraying on bedding was always contraindicated. I researched this after getting sick from exposure to the chemical myself. And, yes, the Thai workers who sprayed it wore only cheap masks like the ones Thai traffic police wear that just make them hot without keeping micro particles out of their lungs. The spraying company, an Australian franchise, didn't want to disclose what chemical they used at first to control ticks but with a little pressing they did. It was extremely effective in eradicating the ticks which had killed one of my dogs. Back to the topic. Wouldn't the bleeding symptoms be more consistent with an ingested poison like arsenic? In an effort to combat ticks, which were repeatedly preying on our poor mutt and seemed to have taken up residence in the cracks around our door/ window frames, we called in the sprayers.... big mistake. I don't know what chemicals they used but they managed to kill every living thing in the garden; frogs, birds, fish etc. Fortunately the family, dog and I left the house for a few days... They didn't even manage to get all the ticks but wiped out all my Koi and we didn't see so much as a Gecko in the garden for over a week! It really wouldn't surprise me if these deaths were a result of either a "home chemical mix" pesticide or simply incorrect mixing and applying of some sort of pesticide/ treatement... I know many Thais that prefer to mix up their own secret recipe for pesticides to save money and confusion in following instructions are common place here... I was prescribed liquid antibiotics for our son when very young, and contrary to the dilution mix described on the actual instructions (I believe it was 1:50 with water) the doctor scrawled 1:5 on the packet. Frequently advised of incorrect dosages, 3 a day, morning, noon and night and on further reading it's a one before bed recommended dosage etc Talking to friends many have experienced similar cock ups here with prescribed medication; one who's son had to have his stomach pumped due to following the doctors instructions but it turned out he'd been given adult dosages for a 3 year old. If trained doctors are capable of making these potentially fatal mistakes I find it highly believable that hotel housekeepers/ pesticide contractors could have made similar mistakes leading to these fatalities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Ok, lets use a bit logic here. I am getting tired of hearing about chlorpyrifos as a causative factor in these deaths. IF it was used at the hotel, it would be used in ALL the rooms, not just one room. And IF it could kill you, then there would be a huge pile of bodies the next day from all the other guests that died from it. So this idea simply does not stand up to reason. Edited July 2, 2012 by EyesWideOpen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudshark17 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Looks like the word from Quebec is that they think the girls were poisoned by the bed bug insecticide used by the hotel in Phi Phi. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/30/questions-remain-as-quebec-sisters-buried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Looks like the word from Quebec is that they think the girls were poisoned by the bed bug insecticide used by the hotel in Phi Phi. http://www.torontosu...-sisters-buried That is just Canadian news speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidu Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thanks for showing the link to the Toronto Sun newspaper. Informative. I was in the Dominican on vacation, it was very strange, we all got up to get breakfest, 9:00 am? It' was a nice resort! I kid you not. Myself and my girlfriend were walking through the complex. And boom, all the people in the other room's etc.. come screaming out of there room's,choking and grapsing for air!. So I went and talked to the Mgt, and they said yes it is our way of controlling the pest's, we send the agent through the vent's, "so if you can vacate your room at 9:00 am because that is when we send the agent".quote from Bill in Toronto Sun The girls stayed an extra night. My guess is the room was sprayed by staff thinking they were gone, then management miscommunication failed to inform the front desk staff as to what had transpired. I believe the poison has a very short half-life, but it's deadly when active. I've traveled a fair amount, but you couldn't pay me to go to Thailand. It's just so bloody corrupt, foreigners are really without protection of any sort. quote from W.A. in Toronto Sun If Thai authorities are trying to 'save face for tourist industry' by being inconclusive in their investigation, it's sure not working on the world stage. They would have saved some face if they'd been honest and professional in their dealings with the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Thanks for showing the link to the Toronto Sun newspaper. Informative. I was in the Dominican on vacation, it was very strange, we all got up to get breakfest, 9:00 am? It' was a nice resort! I kid you not. Myself and my girlfriend were walking through the complex. And boom, all the people in the other room's etc.. come screaming out of there room's,choking and grapsing for air!. So I went and talked to the Mgt, and they said yes it is our way of controlling the pest's, we send the agent through the vent's, "so if you can vacate your room at 9:00 am because that is when we send the agent".quote from Bill in Toronto Sun The girls stayed an extra night. My guess is the room was sprayed by staff thinking they were gone, then management miscommunication failed to inform the front desk staff as to what had transpired. I believe the poison has a very short half-life, but it's deadly when active. I've traveled a fair amount, but you couldn't pay me to go to Thailand. It's just so bloody corrupt, foreigners are really without protection of any sort. quote from W.A. in Toronto Sun If Thai authorities are trying to 'save face for tourist industry' by being inconclusive in their investigation, it's sure not working on the world stage. They would have saved some face if they'd been honest and professional in their dealings with the matter. I agree 100 %. Although at this point there is some debate as to whether their tourism protection is part of a cunning master plan, or just incompetence put on for display on the world stage... I did find interesting these quotes from the Toronto Sun from the father. Good to see the low opinion of the Thai "police" extends beyond expats such as myself... :-) Guess the rose colored glasses brigade on TV cannot tell him to go home as he already is home....... "Audrey and Noemi's father, Carl, told QMI Agency earlier in the week that he deplored the way Thai authorities handled the case. He called Thai police work "corrupt" and "rotten."" And this cannot bode well for Thai tourism..... " He said he expressed his worries to his daughters the last time he contacted them. "I was dreading Thailand," he said. "(I told them) they should end that trip."" Edited July 2, 2012 by EyesWideOpen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdang Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) "(Thai) authorities said they found their bodies 12 hours after they died," Carl [its the father] said. "But according to our calculations, it was 48 hours." The Belanger family also told QMI Agency that Quebec coroner Renee Roussel told them the women's bodies were kept for five days in Thailand under conditions that were "not respectable." The family was not able to identify the women's bodies because they were told the sight of the corpses would be too shocking, Carl said Edited July 2, 2012 by dingdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopperboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Given the circumstantial evidence, cholopryofos does seem a likely cause in the case of the Chiang Mai deaths, although fairly large amounts are usually required to be fatal, .... The only thing pointing to chlorpyrifos was "doctor" McDowall. He went to the media with his "theory" and the news team ran with it. From that point on, even though New Zealand's top toxicologist said that fatal chlorpyrifos exposure was all but impossible, all other causes were all but ignored. In the end, the Thai report, which is not the same thing as "the international findings", told everyone what they wanted to hear, without directly blaming anyone. As far as I know, the actual "international findings" were never released. BTW, "doctor" McDowall is a PhD in engineering, not an MD, toxicologist, or pathologist. Well said!. Actually he is an "eco warrior" waste dump disposal guy. If a human were to ingest 0.25Kg of chlorpyrifos over a 2 year period they wouldn't get sick or get cancer. Its dangerous effects are all due to long term exposure of workers using it or someone deliberately ingesting a high dose at one time. Edited July 2, 2012 by Chopperboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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