Phi Phi Poisonings: Autopsy Results On Canadian Sisters ‘Inconclusive’

[Chopperboy]

Coma and seizures can occur following use of GHB. Combined use with other drugs such as alcohol can result in nausea and breathing difficulties. GHB and two of its precursors, gamma butyrolactone (GBL) and 1,4 butanediol (BD), have been involved in poisonings, overdoses, date rapes, and deaths.

Rohypnol may be lethal when mixed with alcohol and/or other CNS depressants.

Ketamine, in high doses, can cause impaired motor function, high blood pressure, and potentially fatal respiratory problems.

Just pointing this out as I said I do not think this case is going anywhere.

I was drugged once with GHB mixed with alcohol - nearly crashed the car on the way home when I got out of it I couldn't stand legs were like jelly. Felt bad the next day but I didn't die from it!!!

Its true that GHB, Ketamin & DMT couldn't really be detected accurately because they are naturally occurring at the time of death, but whatever party drugs you look at NONE would cause the blood vessels to break down in this way or cause all these symptoms.

[ttelise]

One way or the other I do not think we will ever know now but I think you are underestimating 3 things here. 1. date rape drugs mixed with "buckets" of Sangsom. 2. date rape drugs mixed with "buckets" of Sangsom and the additional ingestion of over the counter drugs that were present in their room. 3.They were female. Women react in a totally different way to drugs and alcohol than guys.

Women are at an increased risk of adverse drug reactions compared with men in part because they are more likely to use multiple medications and dietary supplements etc, according to the results of a number of recent studies. Sex-based differences in metabolism, anatomy, and hormone levels also seem to play a role in why women experience more unwanted effects of drugs.

There are multiple references to these drugs on the net. Here is a sample:

Coma and seizures can occur following use of GHB. Combined use with other drugs such as alcohol can result in nausea and breathing difficulties. GHB and two of its precursors, gamma butyrolactone (GBL) and 1,4 butanediol (BD), have been involved in poisonings, overdoses, date rapes, and deaths.

Rohypnol may be lethal when mixed with alcohol and/or other CNS depressants.

Ketamine, in high doses, can cause impaired motor function, high blood pressure, and potentially fatal respiratory problems.

Just pointing this out as I said I do not think this case is going anywhere.

I get that side of the equation, but I think lack of tolerance by girls who were perhaps neophytes with substances would play a bigger role. Again, they would appear much more peaceful at death if roofies or GHB. Is ketamine even available in Thailand?

Still, my question relates to the substances or their metabolites still being present after death such that they would spike on mass spec (tox screen).

Again, if someones dies from acute toxicity after first pass metabolism (even with mixture as you describe), won't the substances then still be present after death and show up on mass spec or gas chrom? Even alcohol would show. I may be wrong, buy once you die your liver is no longer filtering or metabolizing the substances so they remain in blood stream.

The possibility of date rape drugs being a cause is dependent upon answering the above.

RE: Detection of date rape drugs

Mass spec will hit in all of these. The stuff you read about them being hard to detect relates to simple UA panel kits commonly used. These kits are reactive to specified substances and are far from inclusive due to costs (i.e., simple UA for opiates would even hit on most used opiates such as oxycodone, hydrocodone, or fentanyl. Have to have specific tests for these analogues. Mass spec, however, is not a simple reaction like a dip stick in a UA, but shows EVERYTHING in blood and levels of such.

[ttelise]

Coma and seizures can occur following use of GHB. Combined use with other drugs such as alcohol can result in nausea and breathing difficulties. GHB and two of its precursors, gamma butyrolactone (GBL) and 1,4 butanediol (BD), have been involved in poisonings, overdoses, date rapes, and deaths.

Rohypnol may be lethal when mixed with alcohol and/or other CNS depressants.

Ketamine, in high doses, can cause impaired motor function, high blood pressure, and potentially fatal respiratory problems.

Just pointing this out as I said I do not think this case is going anywhere.

I was drugged once with GHB mixed with alcohol - nearly crashed the car on the way home when I got out of it I couldn't stand legs were like jelly. Felt bad the next day but I didn't die from it!!!

Its true that GHB, Ketamin & DMT couldn't really be detected accurately because they are naturally occurring at the time of death, but whatever party drugs you look at NONE would cause the blood vessels to break down in this way or cause all these symptoms.

The issue is not ability to see in tox screen, but they have short half lifes and are filtered out of body on perhaps second or third pass liver. My question has always been if you die after first pass (which is what will happen if accrue overdose of these substances), then there will still be chemicals or metabolites in blood that mass spec will see spikes that are out of normal range for expected GHB levels.

Again, I may be wrong, but these things are only hard to detect on normal UAs which are reactive and selectively reactive at that, but they are not at all hard to find on expensive mass spec or gas chromo which is run when suspicious deaths occur. Mass spec shows everything and is not reactive like a UA dip stick.

All the hard to detect net stuff relates to normal UA panels and reactive testing where there needs to be not only a specific test, but enough of a certain metabolite to cause a reaction. This is not the case with mass spec.

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[jackspratt]

Sherlock-Watson, Marples, Colombo, name them we have them here. I didn't realise we had a competition on the longest posts. This happenned on the Chiang Mai SAGA. One or two know it alls again hogging the limelight, trying to make themselves look superior, instead of short helpful replies. Some tend to end up their own Ar#ehole in hammering out their long and stupid bumf.

Patience is needed until a verdict is given, then a full exchange of views. Good debates on the subject are healthy WITHOUT an epic/saga post.

If I remember having some of the same posters on the toll-way incident. Give us old expats a look in. Take a breather some of you.

Yep - who would of thunk.

Thailand, the world epicentre of incompetence and corruption, has managed to attract so many western short and long- term authorities on all subjects, ranging from (amongst others) criminal investigations, to forensic science, to relationships, to matters military, to civil construction, airport corruption, and even international law.

And all given the perfect outlet for their expertise on the "Asia's largest expat forum".

Thailand - the Hub of Farang Experts.

Edited June 30, 2012 by jackspratt

[dingdang]

the paper from phuket with green has published the dead tourists so far in 2012...

in total 34

suicide: 4

accident: 9

heart attack: 4

unknown: 4

illness: 13

in europe suffer 300 out of 100,000 a heart attack yearly, that makes 0.3 % --- much less than 0.3 % die of a heart attack

in phuket 12 % die of heart attack per year, obviously...

[ttelise]

the paper from phuket with green has published the dead tourists so far in 2012...

in total 34

suicide: 4

accident: 9

heart attack: 4

unknown: 4

illness: 13

in europe suffer 300 out of 100,000 a heart attack yearly, that makes 0.3 % --- much less than 0.3 % die of a heart attack

in phuket 12 % die of heart attack per year, obviously...

I still cringe at suicide. Why go to exotic place for vacation if you want to kill yourself. Seems like if they wanted to do themselves, they would care little where the act is accomplished unless maybe they were terminally ill

[dingdang]

also surprising, that NONE died of "illicit drugs"... no speed, no mushrooms...

[maidu]

a few things jangling in my mind:

I've been visiting Thailand for over a quarter century, and Thais seem to get sick often. Look at any clinic in any town, around sundown, and the places are probably packed. Particularly with elder folks. Someone alluded to the fact that nearly all the mysterious deaths at Phi Phi (at least 2 sets of two) were ordinarily healthy vibrant young women. It's a highly defined targeted group. It harkens to the date-rape drug (gone horribly wrong) suggestion.

Some people, particularly young carefree 'where's the party!' backpacker types who have visited Phi Phi in the past months, know a lot more than you or me or the police - about the sorts of things that transpire in the fast lane there. If Thai investigators were worth their MSG, they'd be conducting in-depth interviews with that crowd - particularly with local men who interact with them.

Don't get me wrong, when I mention backpackers, I harbor no bias. Up here in Chiang Rai, I get an average of ten backpackers per month, year 'round, coming to stay at my homestead. All are fine folks, wholesome, bright, non-abusive. The general scene up here is quite different from what they're exposed to in places like Phi Phi, so it brings out the best in them.

Edited June 30, 2012 by maidu

[ttelise]

Maidu:

Yeah, but weren't others with their boyfriends? Less likely targets for date rape

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[Jayman]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased.

Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong as well?

[maidu]

Thai authorities mention 'inconclusive' results. That could translate to mean something like; 'some indications of results, but not sure what chemicals they are' or 'some chemical/molecules look suspect, but there's not enough evidence to give a strong enough signal.' ......so we'll announce 'inconclusive.'

It would be interesting to have had a couple camcorders in the examination room, where the Thai 'experts' were examining the autopsy results. .....and the adjoining room, where they decide on the wording of their public announcement, which will cause the least harm to Thai tourism numbers.

[EyesWideOpen]

Sherlock-Watson, Marples, Colombo, name them we have them here. I didn't realise we had a competition on the longest posts. This happenned on the Chiang Mai SAGA. One or two know it alls again hogging the limelight, trying to make themselves look superior, instead of short helpful replies. Some tend to end up their own Ar#ehole in hammering out their long and stupid bumf.

Patience is needed until a verdict is given, then a full exchange of views. Good debates on the subject are healthy WITHOUT an epic/saga post.

If I remember having some of the same posters on the toll-way incident. Give us old expats a look in. Take a breather some of you.

Yep - who would of thunk.

Thailand, the world epicentre of incompetence and corruption, has managed to attract so many western short and long- term authorities on all subjects, ranging from (amongst others) criminal investigations, to forensic science, to relationships, to matters military, to civil construction, airport corruption, and even international law.

And all given the perfect outlet for their expertise on the "Asia's largest expat forum".

Thailand - the Hub of Farang Experts.

Actually given the sheer numbers of expats here, it would stand to reason statistically there should be a few actual experts sprinkled here and there. And since you brought it up, all my life I always thought the words airport and corruption were words that generally do not go together. But thanks to input from Thai Visa posters I realize now they go great together in Thailand !!!! :-) Given the large number of posts with theories about what happened, it will be interesting to see after the Canadian autopsy who is correct, and who is completely wrong.

Side note: I believe that the note left by the Portuguese man was most likely because he was with another woman. Hopefully the Thai police will request he be interviewed in Portugal and he can shed some light on the note. As someone else noted , seriously doubt he was apologizing for giving her poison........

Edited June 30, 2012 by EyesWideOpen

[ttelise]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased.

Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong as well?

I agree. I also think all of the circumstances made known point to some other than date rape and symptoms not consistent with what would happen to someone who ODs and dies from a date rape drug. Assuming of course the initial facts and symptoms reported by Thai authorities are remotely accurate.

Date rape stuff hinges in nothing more than speculation based on the after thought allegation of two mysterious foreign men fleeing the country and allegedly leaving a note apologizing which is the LAST things date raper would do

[ttelise]

Thai authorities mention 'inconclusive' results. That could translate to mean something like; 'some indications of results, but not sure what chemicals they are' or 'some chemical/molecules look suspect, but there's not enough evidence to give a strong enough signal.' ......so we'll announce 'inconclusive.'

It would be interesting to have had a couple camcorders in the examination room, where the Thai 'experts' were examining the autopsy results. .....and the adjoining room, where they decide on the wording of their public announcement, which will cause the least harm to Thai tourism numbers.

Like yeah, we found arsenic but dint know if that caused death or was from drinking water over time.

If they saw traces if illegal drugs I would be willing to bet they would proudly and loudly solve this crime on media outlets.

[maidu]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased.

Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong

First off, we're discussing the most current tragedy, so you can't diss something said about this scenario by bringing up a prior scenario. as well?

To answer you rhetorical question: Yes, I (for one) am saying it's possible that a date-rape drug was slipped to them. When it became obvious the girls were getting sick, the perpetrators backed off. Therefore, no evidence of rape.

I'm sorry if this sort of discussion might offend the family, but that's what it is; discussion on a public forum. It's a measure of how some of us care about the sad episode. When discussing the murder of Lincoln, is that offensive to Lincoln's family? Sorry if it is, but that's what people do - they discuss things that concern them.

Maybe, just maybe, (one chance in a million?) one bit of this discussion might help shed light on what led to to this sad occurrence.

[ttelise]

Sherlock-Watson, Marples, Colombo, name them we have them here. I didn't realise we had a competition on the longest posts. This happenned on the Chiang Mai SAGA. One or two know it alls again hogging the limelight, trying to make themselves look superior, instead of short helpful replies. Some tend to end up their own Ar#ehole in hammering out their long and stupid bumf.

Patience is needed until a verdict is given, then a full exchange of views. Good debates on the subject are healthy WITHOUT an epic/saga post.

If I remember having some of the same posters on the toll-way incident. Give us old expats a look in. Take a breather some of you.

Yep - who would of thunk.

Thailand, the world epicentre of incompetence and corruption, has managed to attract so many western short and long- term authorities on all subjects, ranging from (amongst others) criminal investigations, to forensic science, to relationships, to matters military, to civil construction, airport corruption, and even international law.

And all given the perfect outlet for their expertise on the "Asia's largest expat forum".

Thailand - the Hub of Farang Experts.

Actually given the sheer numbers of expats here, it would stand to reason statistically there should be a few actual experts sprinkled here and there. And since you brought it up, all my life I always thought the words airport and corruption were words that generally do not go together. But thanks to input from Thai Visa posters I realize now they go great together in Thailand !!!! :-) Given the large number of posts with theories about what happened, it will be interesting to see after the Canadian autopsy who is correct, and who is completely wrong.

Haha, just let him be. There are all types in this world. Candidly, however, does not seem like there are any Thai experts on anything and perhaps they need to revamp their education system. Either that or they just let others think for them and follow the herd of their choice

[Jayman]

a few things jangling in my mind:

I've been visiting Thailand for over a quarter century, and Thais seem to get sick often. Look at any clinic in any town, around sundown, and the places are probably packed. Particularly with elder folks. Someone alluded to the fact that nearly all the mysterious deaths at Phi Phi (at least 2 sets of two) were ordinarily healthy vibrant young women. It's a highly defined targeted group. It harkens to the date-rape drug (gone horribly wrong) suggestion.

Some people, particularly young carefree 'where's the party!' backpacker types who have visited Phi Phi in the past months, know a lot more than you or me or the police - about the sorts of things that transpire in the fast lane there. If Thai investigators were worth their MSG, they'd be conducting in-depth interviews with that crowd - particularly with local men who interact with them.

Don't get me wrong, when I mention backpackers, I harbor no bias. Up here in Chiang Rai, I get an average of ten backpackers per month, year 'round, coming to stay at my homestead. All are fine folks, wholesome, bright, non-abusive. The general scene up here is quite different from what they're exposed to in places like Phi Phi, so it brings out the best in them.

I should have quoted your post in my post so you could see that you were clearing talking about date rape and more than just these current 2 young women's tragic deaths.

First off, we're discussing the most current tragedy, so you can't diss something said about this scenario by bringing up a prior scenario. as well?

To answer you rhetorical question: Yes, I (for one) am saying it's possible that a date-rape drug was slipped to them. When it became obvious the girls were getting sick, the perpetrators backed off. Therefore, no evidence of rape.

I'm sorry if this sort of discussion might offend the family, but that's what it is; discussion on a public forum. It's a measure of how some of us care about the sad episode. When discussing the murder of Lincoln, is that offensive to Lincoln's family? Sorry if it is, but that's what people do - they discuss things that concern them.

Maybe, just maybe, (one chance in a million?) one bit of this discussion might help shed light on what led to to this sad occurrence.

You think this discussion is going to help solve the mystery? Are you high or what? You think the BIB are reading this thread in hopes to crack the case?

The reality is that a family member could be here reading and looking for some closure on this tragedy and reading your rant about rapes of their fallen daughters out of pure speculation is a little callus in my opinion. It honestly is disrespectful to do in a public forum like TVF. Of course you can keep at it but my opinion has been stated.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Jayman

[ttelise]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased.

Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong

First off, we're discussing the most current tragedy, so you can't diss something said about this scenario by bringing up a prior scenario. as well?

To answer you rhetorical question: Yes, I (for one) am saying it's possible that a date-rape drug was slipped to them. When it became obvious the girls were getting sick, the perpetrators backed off. Therefore, no evidence of rape.

I'm sorry if this sort of discussion might offend the family, but that's what it is; discussion on a public forum. It's a measure of how some of us care about the sad episode. When discussing the murder of Lincoln, is that offensive to Lincoln's family? Sorry if it is, but that's what people do - they discuss things that concern them.

Maybe, just maybe, (one chance in a million?) one bit of this discussion might help shed light on what led to to this sad occurrence.

I would be inclined to believe date rape but for the symptoms and presentations. Completely inconsistent with all reports of medical presentations and mass spec would spike on bug time on roofie and ketamine. GHB levels can be compared post mortem but I doubt Thai pathologist properly collected or preserved serum or urine samples. Still, GHB makes victim fall asleep peacefully at a dose to cause that. They may puke, but it will be where they are laying and will most likely cause suffocation.

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[dingdang]

even if the autopsy is "inconclusive", there definitely WERE abnormal results found in the blood and urine - at least, or with the organs, too...

its just not possible, that all bloodvalues/status is perfectly alright, while blood is flowing out of your mouth and you are dying within hours...

[Hellhound66]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased. Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong as well?

Jayman, the theory would be they are out partying with the two Portuguese and Samantha Kay and somehow a drug is slipped into one of the buckets the girls are drinking. The girls twig that something is not right and decide to head home (very early for a first night in Phi Phi). Portuguese guy helps them back. Feels bad about what he has done and leaves a note to the girls apologising (possibly for putting something in their drinks). Samantha Kay having drunk from the same bucket also gets sick but gets herself off to hospital. The rest we know. It's a theory nothing more.

This theory is basically saying the girls were not at fault and acted in a way responsible girls would act -so I don't get that it is disrespectful at all.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Hellhound66

[ttelise]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased. Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong as well?

Jayman, the theory would be they are out partying with the two Portuguese and Samantha Kay and somehow a drug is slipped into one of the buckets the girls are drinking. The girls twig that something is not right and decide to head home (very early for a first night in Phi Phi). Portuguese guy helps them back. Feels bad about what he has done and leaves a note to the girls apologising (possibly for putting something in their drinks). Samantha Kay having drunk from the same bucket also gets sick but gets herself off to hospital. The rest we know. It's a theory nothing more.

This theory is basically saying the girls were not at fault and acted in a way responsible girls would act -so I don't get that it is disrespectful at all.

Your trying to write a movie script. I am just trying to connect their symptoms as reported. Unfortunately, what led up to their sickness will likely never be known because Thai authorities chose to do little or nothing to preserve crime scene and investigate the matter properly. Now cause of death can and should be determinable and everything else will likely remain a theory or fantasy thanks to BiB.

BTW, I use the term crime scene because any deaths like this, much less multiple deaths of young healthy women, are presumed to have been the result of a crime. That is criminal investigation 101. Investigators then work backwards so to speak to exclude possibility of a crime or prove not a crime, but treated as a crime until that occurs.

Bozos in brown began with theory more dead foreigners who cares, but at very least did not treat as crime scene and criminal investigation from the beginning.

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[Nisa]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased. Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong as well?

Jayman, the theory would be they are out partying with the two Portuguese and Samantha Kay and somehow a drug is slipped into one of the buckets the girls are drinking. The girls twig that something is not right and decide to head home (very early for a first night in Phi Phi). Portuguese guy helps them back. Feels bad about what he has done and leaves a note to the girls apologising (possibly for putting something in their drinks). Samantha Kay having drunk from the same bucket also gets sick but gets herself off to hospital. The rest we know. It's a theory nothing more.

This theory is basically saying the girls were not at fault and acted in a way responsible girls would act -so I don't get that it is disrespectful at all.

Your trying to write a movie script. I am just trying to connect their symptoms as reported. Unfortunately, what led up to their sickness will likely never be known because Thai authorities chose to do little or nothing to preserve crime scene and investigate the matter properly. Now cause of death can and should be determinable and everything else will likely remain a theory or fantasy thanks to BiB.

BTW, I use the term crime scene because any deaths like this, much less multiple deaths of young healthy women, are presumed to have been the result of a crime. That is criminal investigation 101. Investigators then work backwards so to speak to exclude possibility of a crime or prove not a crime, but treated as a crime until that occurs.

Bozos in brown began with theory more dead foreigners who cares, but at very least did not treat as crime scene and criminal investigation from the beginning.

Interesting take since it is the police have continued to maintain control over the investigation since the start and as reported police had CSI and numerous other agencies examine the room for at least numerous days after the deaths were discovered.

[ttelise]

Why does the "date rape" card keep coming up when not once has any indication of rape of the victims been mentioned? Are you guys saying someone gave them the "date rape" drugs and then changed their mind about raping them? Personally I find this line of thought completely disrespectful to the families of the deceased. Even the last time 2 young women died in Phi Phi one was with her fiance. Do you think she was a "date rape" gone wrong as well?

Jayman, the theory would be they are out partying with the two Portuguese and Samantha Kay and somehow a drug is slipped into one of the buckets the girls are drinking. The girls twig that something is not right and decide to head home (very early for a first night in Phi Phi). Portuguese guy helps them back. Feels bad about what he has done and leaves a note to the girls apologising (possibly for putting something in their drinks). Samantha Kay having drunk from the same bucket also gets sick but gets herself off to hospital. The rest we know. It's a theory nothing more.

This theory is basically saying the girls were not at fault and acted in a way responsible girls would act -so I don't get that it is disrespectful at all.

Your trying to write a movie script. I am just trying to connect their symptoms as reported. Unfortunately, what led up to their sickness will likely never be known because Thai authorities chose to do little or nothing to preserve crime scene and investigate the matter properly. Now cause of death can and should be determinable and everything else will likely remain a theory or fantasy thanks to BiB.

BTW, I use the term crime scene because any deaths like this, much less multiple deaths of young healthy women, are presumed to have been the result of a crime. That is criminal investigation 101. Investigators then work backwards so to speak to exclude possibility of a crime or prove not a crime, but treated as a crime until that occurs.

Bozos in brown began with theory more dead foreigners who cares, but at very least did not treat as crime scene and criminal investigation from the beginning.

Interesting take since it is the police have continued to maintain control over the investigation since the start and as reported police had CSI and numerous other agencies examine the room for at least numerous days after the deaths were discovered.

Haha, you got your nose so far up Thailand's butt you cannot see what is patently clear. Even a law student from England who was there commented that it did not appear as if they were preserving crime scene very well. Did not do much to question witnesses. Made it sound as if note was found when they went back days later. First speculated food poisoning while mentioning Motrin over and over. Then made it sound as if bad shrooms while still mentioning "drugs" found in room, but no mention of note or looking for suspects until Scot girl gave interview. Interestingly, she said they had the Portuguese guy in custody and were questioning him. So they have him custody at one point, then later they act like they dint know who is. At first one guy on CCTV, then it's two.

Haha, great job every step of the way, especially like how they go back several days later to do their investigation after room was disinfected.

Then we have family saying cover up by way things were handled. I guess it's just their imagination too.

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[canuckamuck]

Sounds like they already released their results a couple of days ago and said oops, perhaps we should say no results yet and wait until Canadian report comes out so we don't look incompetent as well as corrupt. They seem to speak first and think later, then go back and try to fix. Brilliant thinking. Haha, kind of like saying we told NASA no after it's already been reported NASA said forget you since they could not make a decision

Or someone was too early with the cut and paste, no one is to blame story, they weren't told to wait until a believable time period had passed.

[jackspratt]

Actually given the sheer numbers of expats here, it would stand to reason statistically there should be a few actual experts sprinkled here and there.

You are probably correct, but I doubt any of them would come onto a thread like this, and devalue their expertise by mixing with the highly speculative and worthless opinions that abound.

[canuckamuck]

I think people are putting to much importance on things that might be non factors. The note for instance. We have no idea where it came from or how it was found. It is even possible it turned up when the police was moving furniture to find evidence. So possibly the note was from some other guests in the past, or possibly the note never existed and just part of a smoke screen. And we don't know the meaning of the note either. If it is from that night it might be something as simple as someone got too grabby on the beach, or maybe someone had an argument.

The police aren't going to release enough truthful info for any of us to work this out, and the mindless press will say anything without fact checking.

Edited July 1, 2012 by canuckamuck

[maidu]

Actually given the sheer numbers of expats here, it would stand to reason statistically there should be a few actual experts sprinkled here and there.

You are probably correct, but I doubt any of them would come onto a thread like this, and devalue their expertise by mixing with the highly speculative and worthless opinions that abound.

You sound like you have your butler scour public toilet seats, before you set down.

This thread is a way for posters to express their concern. Perhaps some are gauche about it. I wouldn't presume farang investigative experts (retired or not) are in too rarified a strata to come down and discuss this topic with regular folks.

Some opinions expressed herein may be deemed 'worthless' (it's each person's choice whether they want to follow this thread. No one is forcing you to). However, some opinions and input may prove to be worthwhile. It's generally agreed that Thai authorities have dropped the ball. Most participants on this thread are trying to find reasons why two ordinarily healthy young women died suddenly at a beach resort.

[canuckamuck]

Actually given the sheer numbers of expats here, it would stand to reason statistically there should be a few actual experts sprinkled here and there.

You are probably correct, but I doubt any of them would come onto a thread like this, and devalue their expertise by mixing with the highly speculative and worthless opinions that abound.

I can't imagine that you are surprised that people find a mystery so compelling. The sad part is that it is a real and current human tragedy and people are having difficulty containing thoughts that are both flawed and insensitive at this time when the people, who loved the sisters, are finding ways to deal with their loss. I am sure many people close to these sisters have visited Thai Visa threads. I am also sure that they would welcome any revelations that would help them get closure. But they are forced to experience some very offensive suggestions from the forum knuckle draggers.

[dingdang]

that the cause of death could not be determine, ok, so far... but what DID they find with the autopsy... again a problem with the increased heart, what exactly was wrong in the blood (cell count, no oxygen, something nitric toxic ... etc etc...)...

they cant just say "dunno" and thats it... definitely something was found (to be wrong)...

[dingdang]

when there was the ecoli outbreak in germany, they also didnt know in the beginning what was wrong... but they didnt just say "dunno, next one"...

for each and every victim they tracked down what they had eaten, where it was bought (most likely) and where it was grown... until they found the source of the ecoli bacteria in sprouts from a certain farm...

THATS a big difference to thailand... they dont really investigate... either the killer loses their passport at the scene or the case cant be solved...