Retirement Plan

[wana]

Drug Dealer ?

[siam cbr]

1 million pounds to retire in Isaan while owning your own property.

Man are the ladies gonna love you.

I imagine you'll have an entire town full of best-friends.

[giddyup]

1 million pounds to retire in Isaan while owning your own property.

Man are the ladies gonna love you.

I imagine you'll have an entire town full of best-friends.

Doesn't matter if you have a million or not, just tell them what they want to hear.

[wana]

Wear decent clothes ,buy a round of drinks for everyone and thais wont have a clue about your financial status

being a farang .........well........obviously ,you must be a multi-millionaire visiting poor villages in isarn

they will think any half respectable farang will be a donald trump until proved otherwise

[siam cbr]

I would personally want to retire with all assets bought - house, car, bike - bought with money I wouldn't miss - thailand is simply too unstable to invest properly in.

And a monthly overseas income such as property rental. I would consider 40k p/m as a absolute minimum for any sort of comfort, would want at least 60-70k p/m, and would be happy with 100k p/m with all assets bought and paid off.

[siam cbr]

just tell them what they want to hear.

that what they'll be saying to you.

You so jai-dee, you come to our town. you very good man. We like you a lot. Welcome welcome hansome man. Can I have loan of 1000b, my mother need medicine for wery bad illnit.

Edited July 2, 2012 by siam cbr

[JurgenG]

hi

maybe im just a knob but really

how have you amassed aa nnesst eggg oof 50 million baht ,living a lifestyle that spends around 200k a month ,own 2 houses ,be in your late 30s early four ties and not have any idea about money planning or retirement options in a country were you live

i earn a similar wage i have 2 houses and based on what i spend a month im nowhere near savings of 50 million baht

so rather than ask posters how to invest it ,why don't you tell us how to accumulate it

Very simple.

Both my gf and I have very good salary. Since the beginning we start working we never pay rent but bought a small apartment, then a bigger, then a house. When I say we paid, it's not true, we both have housing allowance so we just pay the initial deposit and that's it. When we moved to Hong Kong in 2007, we bought an other flat there. My wife finished paying the mortgage in Bangkok, the house is in her name, while I'm paying the mortgage in HK

And then we got lucky. During the SARS outbreak in Hong Kong, the price of the real estate hit rock bottom. We bet it will be short lived and we invested in a couple of flats. The market was so depressed that the bank and the developpers were almost giving you money if you were ready to buy the new flats coming on the market

As I said, definitively not rocket science. Furthermore, 50M Bahts is only HK$12,5 M HK, the price of the flat where we are living in HK.

And what's wrong with asking for advises ? Even the richest, most successful business men have financial advisers. I'm just a lucky guy who had the chance to invest at the right place at the right time. Nothing more.

PS : For the income it's x2, as my gf has similar degree (we met in university) and earn almost as much as me.

Edited July 2, 2012 by JurgenG

[tink2mutt]

Dear OP

60K per month IMO is plenty up country if you own your own house.

The experts say you should have enough money to live on 3% to 4% of the interest that you earn on your lump sum. Therefore if you have $1.5 million lump sum you could withdraw around $45,000 to $60,000 comfortably. In normal years that would leave between 2% and 3 % back into the fund to help compensate for inflation.

The last 3 years have been far from normal in terms of return on investment. However it is recommended in normal years to have 50% bonds and 50% equity and that should return you between 6% and 7% total.

I am not an expert but I do a lot of research on retirement funding. One day this crazy crisis will be over and the bond/equity mix will be better placed.

In the meantime - you can earn 5%+ in term deposits in Australia.

Take care and enjoy your money!!

[moe666]

Put a bit in the Thai stockmarket. There are many good companies paying 7 percent dividend. Also many good companies; CPALL owns 7/11, CPN central shopping centers, CPF sea food and animal feed. ADVANC, DTAC, and INTOUCH all telecoms paying 7 percent or more in dividend. Only invest in better companies as this is your retirement fund.

Check out the banks they have higher interest for big bucks.

Edited July 2, 2012 by moe666

[SteveLynch]

Thanks for the reply

I have never lived in hong kong so I don't know what housing prices are like ,but I'm sure 50million baht would buy you a bit more than a flat it's about 1.6 million Aus dollars ,I think you are now kinda playing down the value of 50 million baht ,thus my question regardingyour knowledge of finance planning or lack it seems

A previous thread on here regarding monthly spending really tells you that apart from one or two guys on this forum ,most people here are living of meagre budgets and will have no experience With the volume of money you have

But maybe the zillionaires on here who rent 10 k a month rooms can offer more advice than you already have

Asking for advice ..there is nothing wrong with it ..but you seem to be a guy who is quite smart with his cash ,or your wife is !

Either way you are in a very select group ,if housing worked for me once I would probably return to where my succesful money ventures are ,just in a different country Myanmar springs to mind as a country that's about to have an economic explosion ,buy some property there

[wana]

Thanks for the reply

I have never lived in hong kong so I don't know what housing prices are like ,but I'm sure 50million baht would buy you a bit more than a flat it's about 1.6 million Aus dollars ,I think you are now kinda playing down the value of 50 million baht ,thus my question regardingyour knowledge of finance planning or lack it seems

A previous thread on here regarding monthly spending really tells you that apart from one or two guys on this forum ,most people here are living of meagre budgets and will have no experience With the volume of money you have

But maybe the zillionaires on here who rent 10 k a month rooms can offer more advice than you already have

Asking for advice ..there is nothing wrong with it ..but you seem to be a guy who is quite smart with his cash ,or your wife is !

Either way you are in a very select group ,if housing worked for me once I would probably return to where my succesful money ventures are ,just in a different country Myanmar springs to mind as a country that's about to have an economic explosion ,buy some property there

HongKong is seriously expensive to buy a property ,50 million thb is not that much really

its wel under 2 million dollars and us dollars are nearly toilet paper thesedays

[SteveLynch]

Yes true ,but he is moving or currently living in Thailand

2million dollars is a truck load of money ,I just find it hard to believe that the OP is asking about investment ideas and insurance in Thailand when he has been so successful in the past with property ,be it good luck or good timing

Did the initial foray into the property market not wet your whistle to learn more ,you say you bought numerous properties so you must have had some sound advice or prior knowledge ,

Please don't take my posts the wrong way but as I said before to have 2million in the bank and 2or 3 properties you are in a very different league to the majority of posters on this site

Maybe it's me ,maybe I have turned into the bitter poster who just looks for fault ,but I have just read a topic about mach3razors and homemade aftershave ,I I wonder what decent advice you expect to find ,and more to the point why you don't already have the skill set to do it

Anyway I'm extremely happy you are as well of as you are, and I applaud the early retirement ,best of luck to you and your future

Steve

[Sharp]

I'll try to be very specific to avoid a repeat of the endless discussion in other threads.

I agree that 200K+ a month is a minimum if you are an international executive living and working in Bangkok. And if you have kids negotiate that their education is taken care of by your company. But here we are talking about retirement in Isan.

Our houses, both in Isan and Bangkok are fully paid. We plan to live in Isan but expect to spend every other week end in Bangkok for a bit of shopping and a good meal. And make an oversea trip at least one or two time a year. Based on that, we estimate that 60K per month is reasonable for a couple.

We will have no pension, just a lump sum to retire. We expect to live 40 years after retirement but plan for 10 extra years. Based on our estimation we should retire with around 50M Bahts (excluding the houses). What do you guys think ? Is it too little or too much ? And how to invest this sum to maximize the return with very little tolerance for risk ?

Additional question : what kind of insurance you will recommend ?

Happy days ,,,,,enjoy ,,,,,,

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[sirineou]

I live a few clicks out side Khon Kaen,

If you have your own house paid for, and your car paid for ,and dont have children in international schools,then 50,000 bht a month is plenty,

That is more than 1500 bht a day.

keep in mind that the BKK every other weekend will quickly become old, and eventual you will settle in to the Isaan life.

Just my opinion.

Edited July 2, 2012 by sirineou

[JurgenG]

The reason of my thread is the thread from Murgatroyd. I'm very sorry for him especially since he seems to be such a nice and responsible guy.

Today both my wife and I have good salaries and are quite lucky with our investments. If something happen to us, we have good insurances provided by our companies and if we lose on our investments, as it is real estate, we won't lose everything and we can afford to wait for better days.

Once we retire, it's over. Whatever we have that day, we will have to make with it until our last days. And as my wife noted, in my family we live quite old. So I don't want to make mistake. I may have some experience about making money now but I've no experience about retirement or getting old.

50M Baht is not the money we have but the target we should meet before thinking about retirement. It's not that much, in the village where we plan to retire, I know at least of two foreigners who retired with this kind of money. They have a nice life style but nothing extravagant. This amount of 50M, 60K monthly, is based on my discussion with these two expats. Now I just want to ask for more opinion to either confirm or infirm my plans

[JurgenG]

I live a few clicks out side Khon Kaen,

If you have your own house paid for, and your car paid for ,and dont have children in international schools,then 50,000 bht a month is plenty,

That is more than 1500 bht a day.

keep in mind that the BKK every other weekend will quickly become old, and eventual you will settle in to the Isaan life.

Just my opinion.

My wife is from Bkk. She agree with my idea of retiring in Isan. We found a nice place near Khao Yai, the weather is great and we have a couple of friends there. But she insists she will need to come back to Bkk at least every two weeks to visit family and friends. That's the reason why we will keep the house there.

[GreenSnapper]

The trick is, not to use up your capital.

Therefore don't calculate that you will use up all until you are 85. It will not work out and you become 100.

Live from returns and try to increase your capital by the inflation rate.

One thing you may consider for "long life risk" is a pension insurance. European companies offer them, but use a good one, for example from Switzerland.

You pay a lump sum into the insurance and then you get an immediate pension until you die. If you die early - good for the insurance. If you live long - bad for the insurance.

The disadvantage of such a model is that the interest rate and thus the monthly return is not very good. But you don't need to worry if your money lasts long enough. They pay until you are dead.

[JaiLai]

The trick is, not to use up your capital.

Therefore don't calculate that you will use up all until you are 85. It will not work out and you become 100.

Live from returns and try to increase your capital by the inflation rate.

One thing you may consider for "long life risk" is a pension insurance. European companies offer them, but use a good one, for example from Switzerland.

You pay a lump sum into the insurance and then you get an immediate pension until you die. If you die early - good for the insurance. If you live long - bad for the insurance.

The disadvantage of such a model is that the interest rate and thus the monthly return is not very good. But you don't need to worry if your money lasts long enough. They pay until you are dead.

This is interesting, do you have a website with details?

Thanks.

[sirineou]

I live a few clicks out side Khon Kaen,

If you have your own house paid for, and your car paid for ,and dont have children in international schools,then 50,000 bht a month is plenty,

That is more than 1500 bht a day.

keep in mind that the BKK every other weekend will quickly become old, and eventual you will settle in to the Isaan life.

Just my opinion.

My wife is from Bkk. She agree with my idea of retiring in Isan. We found a nice place near Khao Yai, the weather is great and we have a couple of friends there. But she insists she will need to come back to Bkk at least every two weeks to visit family and friends. That's the reason why we will keep the house there.

Well she might grow tired of the five hr trip by car, six hours by bus. by the way, when we go to BKK we take the buss, the VIP bus is very nice, and only about 800 bht, snooze a little, eat a lot, watch a movie, and before you know it you are there.

When you move to isaan you might find the BKK relatives visiting you more in Khao Yai, than you, them in Bkk

Not knowing them, I ma not sure if it's a good thing or bad

[Pormax]

I live in a village in Issan and while the local people can live on very little you will find that if you want to live a similar standard of living to your home country plus do the things you have said then I would most definetely not be looking at less than 100,000B per month. To give you an example: a lot of the villagers pay no electricity as their bills are less than 100B per month. I on the other hand even though I am no longer on the high rate for a new building still pay around 2,200B per month. (4.14B per unit incl VAT) We use aircon for about 3 hours each night have two fridges and two tv's and a microwave, washing machine and 2 water pumps (onefrom the well to a tank then one for pressure into the house.), electric kettle and numourous fans around the house. We of course iron our clothes which most Thai do not. We cook on gas or BBQ. When you live here permanently there will always be something to do around the house/garden for maintenance or improvement. Justa couple of factors to take into the equation.

[SteveLynch]

Jurgan ,

Have you considered business ventures of your own in Thailand

My biggest concern with getting old or indeed passing away ,is how my family will continue in the lifestyle we currently have

I'm trying to make as much money today as possible ,and spending it wisley on smaller but many investments in Thailand ,rental properties and small business ideas ,

Not everybody would agree but it's the only plan I have right now

Every time I get 1 million baht of savings I try to invest it in something small ,many fail but some are bringing return

I would think generating an income of 150 k a month for every month your retired would be the goal .plus a nest egg to bolster up your life

As I have previously said in other posts I find Thailand not as cheap as I first tought ,and my dollars don't go as far as I would like them to,that said I wouldn't change my lifestyle ,to have a healthier balance in my bank account

What ever you decide good luck to you

[mikekim1219]

The reason of my thread is the thread from Murgatroyd. I'm very sorry for him especially since he seems to be such a nice and responsible guy.

Today both my wife and I have good salaries and are quite lucky with our investments. If something happen to us, we have good insurances provided by our companies and if we lose on our investments, as it is real estate, we won't lose everything and we can afford to wait for better days.

Once we retire, it's over. Whatever we have that day, we will have to make with it until our last days. And as my wife noted, in my family we live quite old. So I don't want to make mistake. I may have some experience about making money now but I've no experience about retirement or getting old.

50M Baht is not the money we have but the target we should meet before thinking about retirement. It's not that much, in the village where we plan to retire, I know at least of two foreigners who retired with this kind of money. They have a nice life style but nothing extravagant. This amount of 50M, 60K monthly, is based on my discussion with these two expats. Now I just want to ask for more opinion to either confirm or infirm my plans

I lived in Beijing during the property bubble. The price of apartment triple, quadrupled in 4 to 5 years. If you were at the right place at right time, anyone could have made some serious dough.

As for your retirement plan, with 50 mil, you can collect 120k per month with only minimum interest. You have so many options such as annuity that would pay you about 200k a month for rest of your life. You can budget 60k for cost of living and put back the rest in other investment to keep you adjusted for the inflation as you get older.

Really I wouldn't worry about anything with 50M.

Edited July 2, 2012 by mikekim1219

[mikekim1219]

Jurgan ,

Have you considered business ventures of your own in Thailand

My biggest concern with getting old or indeed passing away ,is how my family will continue in the lifestyle we currently have

I'm trying to make as much money today as possible ,and spending it wisley on smaller but many investments in Thailand ,rental properties and small business ideas ,

Not everybody would agree but it's the only plan I have right now

Every time I get 1 million baht of savings I try to invest it in something small ,many fail but some are bringing return

I would think generating an income of 150 k a month for every month your retired would be the goal .plus a nest egg to bolster up your life

As I have previously said in other posts I find Thailand not as cheap as I first tought ,and my dollars don't go as far as I would like them to,that said I wouldn't change my lifestyle ,to have a healthier balance in my bank account

What ever you decide good luck to you

I think we are all on the same boat on this. We want to leave more than what we came here with to our love one. The trick is not to go negative on your savings/pension. The trick becomes really tricky if you don't have sufficient fund, but with 50M, you can continue accumulating more than you are spending without a sweat.

[IsaanUSA]

50M baht is "too much" if your goal is 60k per month.

[JurgenG]

Jurgan ,

Have you considered business ventures of your own in Thailand

My biggest concern with getting old or indeed passing away ,is how my family will continue in the lifestyle we currently have

I'm trying to make as much money today as possible ,and spending it wisley on smaller but many investments in Thailand ,rental properties and small business ideas ,

Not everybody would agree but it's the only plan I have right now

Every time I get 1 million baht of savings I try to invest it in something small ,many fail but some are bringing return

I would think generating an income of 150 k a month for every month your retired would be the goal .plus a nest egg to bolster up your life

As I have previously said in other posts I find Thailand not as cheap as I first tought ,and my dollars don't go as far as I would like them to,that said I wouldn't change my lifestyle ,to have a healthier balance in my bank account

What ever you decide good luck to you

Thailand, if you want a certain lifestyle, is not cheap. I know a couple of places in Europe where we can get a better life for cheaper. If we stay in Thailand it will be mostly for my wife because she wants to stay close to her family. I enjoy working in Asia and working with Asian people but I don't think Asia, and Thailand in particular, is the paradise on earth. But it's not bad either. After a few years you can manage to have a good life here if you make the effort to understand how things work.

Regarding small business ventures in Thailand, yes of course I'm thinking of it. But more as a way to keep busy, intellectually active, than as a way to get rich. I'm not really in this phase yet but we could organize a brainstorming thread to see what comes out of it.

[DogNo1]

For information on investing, I can recommend the Motley Fool and RIchard Lehman's Income Securites Investor advisory. I subscribe to both and most of my investments are based on recommendations from Richard Lehman. He features four model portfolios in his monthly advisory and none of them earns less than 7% annually. You can find a link to his and a lot of other newsletters on on e-subscriptions.forbes.com. The fool.com website is their non-subscriber site through which you can get free investing information. Subscribing gets you access to the invaluable investing forums but their subscriptions are pricey. Other sources are cefconnect.com which gives you a lot of information on closed-end funds. You can also checkout Morningstar.com. It is very possible to earn 7% through investments in the USA without putting your principal to much risk. There is no such thing as a free lunch;however, and all investments carry some risk even if it's just losing out to inflation. Do careful research (AKA due dilligence) and you should be able to put a low-risk portfolio together. One BIG mistake that I have made in the past is making my positions in a security too large and suffered greatly during the latter part of 2011 as a result. The best practice is to keep each position to no more than 3% of your total portfolio. Be wary of financial advisors. While not exactly crooks, all of them are looking to skim 2-3% of your portfolio per year in one way or another. You can save that by investing on your own after sufficient preparation. One of the best and lowest cost brokerages around is InteractiveBrokers. Good luck!

[SteveLynch]

Me too ,I would return to Europe but must considder my stepson ,and his real dad !

I think I have laid down now in Thailand and having kids really makes you open your eyes to money worries and been organized I have just read that thread of the guy having to go home as his money ran out ,and his wife was sick ,heart breaking really

I think everybody who has ever come to Thailand dreams of opening businesses here and cracking that golden goose it very rare that it works out

Would the current industry your in lend to been a business owner? I know mine won't ,so I'm always looking at other people's businesses ideas ,I'm currently looking at something but need to think about it more

I can only earn one wage and I'm pretty close to the summit of what my profession offers so I need 5 more incomes minimum to set myself up like you have discussed

Anyway I'm always open to ideas for the future if you hav any send this way ,I'll supply the drinks

Regards

Steve

[maprao]

50m BAHT IS $1,583,000 Just getting interest on that at 2% gives you $31,660 a year. With that amount you can get a much higher interest rate.

I think you have no worries at all.

[DogNo1]

As a follow up to my previous post, I am inserting a quote from Richard Lehman's website incomesecurities.com concerning his book.

Income Investing Today

By Richard Lehmann

Income Investing Today details a safe alternative to the downside risks inherent in the stock market--income securities that can provide a 7% to 8% annual cash income. With this book, fixed income expert Richard Lehmann outlines income investing concepts you need to understand, various investment vehicles, and investment strategies that will help you build a safe, diversified portfolio of investments.

The investment vehicles he explains range well beyond traditional fixed income securities or creditor instruments such as bonds, to include hybrids, REITs, mutual funds, and more. He shows that the key to building a steady, growth-oriented income portfolio is to diversify over a variety of securities that depend on different drivers--that is, portfolios that are not vulnerable to any one specific economic factor such as interest rates.

The ideal guide for individual investors saving for retirement and seeking more safety in their portfolios, Income Investing Today shows how a diversified collection of income securities can equal or exceed the returns from common stock with much lower risk.

You can order the book directly from the website. I've read it. It's very informative. By the way, an income of 7% on income securities investments of 50 million would yield 3.5 million per year or nearly 292,000 per month. You would never need to touch your principal to have a wonderful lifestyle. I've taken on a little more risk and am making about 9% on my income securities investments.

[letitbe]

So far I've been allergic to any investment in the stock market. All the money we have come from profit in real estate.

. But how to protect ourselves against currency fluctuations ?

If you have risk aversion you can easily get 3.75% on 60 month fixed deposit rates

Personally I will not chase 5% with risk if 3.75 is guaranteed risk free

http://www.bangkokba...osit Rates.aspx

http://www.krungsri....-01-06-2012.pdf

To protect against fluctuation the simplest method is to have a few years expense in the currency

your bills are in. Of course there is FOREX hedging but again risk/reward has to be considered.

Good Luck

So far I've been allergic to any investment in the stock market. All the money we have come from profit in real estate.

. But how to protect ourselves against currency fluctuations ?

If you have risk aversion you can easily get 3.75% on 60 month fixed deposit rates

Personally I will not chase 5% with risk if 3.75 is guaranteed risk free

http://www.bangkokba...osit Rates.aspx

http://www.krungsri....-01-06-2012.pdf

To protect against fluctuation the simplest method is to have a few years expense in the currency

your bills are in. Of course there is FOREX hedging but again risk/reward has to be considered.

Good Luck

why oh why are you all so naive and sorry stupid. Is everyone here brian dead. In 1970's I lived great on 4000 gbp a year or whats that now 15000 baht a month or so. In 1990 I lived here great on around 40,000 baht a month (no kids, ex wife etc). Today i can hardly manage on 200,000 - 250,000 a month ( 2 kids etc etc). If id put my money in 1990 in your so called great investments id now be totally broke. Pitiful to say least. And forget so called experts you have to do it yourself and you have to keep working at it always or you are going to loose it. With no pension our income has fallen from around 300,000 a month in 2007 to 200,000 after crash and GBP and US$ decline to now around 140,000 baht a month but our capital has gone up enough to cover inflation. One main reason for income drop is large move to gold which gives no income but is be very scared if we had money in cash, on deposit, bonds or anything like that. Anyone putting money into anything except real assets like property, shares ,Pm, land and rest is either very brave or very stupid in these times.