Travel Insurance Fails As Phuket Tourist Faces Bt600k Medical Bill

[Nigel1500]

With regard to foreigners riding motorcycles in Thailand, Thai law states (and I'm paraphrasing):

To ride a motorcycle in Thailand, a tourist or non-resident must possess and be able to produce:

• A national motorcycle drivers licence issued in your home country, AND,
  
• An International Driving Permit, endorsed for a motorcycle.
  

Where did you find that law, do you have a link?

Steve,

The 1968 Convention governs international driving permits. Thailand is a signatory. Such a permit is only a standardised verification of what is stated on your home country licence. It looks like this: http://en.wikipedia....:IDP_Taiwan.jpg with a standard grey cover and white middle page. It is issued by your local motoring authority such as: http://www.mynrma.co...andbook_Jun.pdf. It is a requirement of the 1968 Convention, not the Thai Government, that the licence of your home country be carried in conjunction with the Permit.

It would be unreasonable to say that Thailand or the Royal Thai Police are not being fair by insisting on both documents. It is, afterall, an international convention.

Further, the relevant section of Thai law is Section 42 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, Thailand which states, and this time I do quote,

Section 42

• Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver licence.
  
• The driver must carry the driver licence and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request.
  
• This does not apply to those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.
  
• If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence specified in the Section 42-2.
  
• In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver licence, and show them to competent officers upon request.
  

Section 42-2

• In case there is a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver licence, an alien who does not have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorised by such a foreign government.
  

I trust that clears things up.

Cheers

Nige'

[stevenl]

Your post seems to point in the direction that I am thinking as well, being that an international permit is not required in Thailand.

Homelicense, provided in English, would be enough. Take e.g. this article from your link:

"

• Contracting Parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:
  
  • domestic driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 6 to the Convention;
    
  • international driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 7 to the Convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driver's license;
    

  [*]driver's licenses issued by a Contracting Party shall be recognized in the territory of another Contracting Party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;"

[Nigel1500]

Nigel.

Thank you for your informative and frank understanding of the matter.

I was being critical of the hospital not because of the security guard, they possibly have very good reason from past events. If when coming into my friends room, see........ http://www.thaivisa....d-but-no-cover/

post # 20, you think this is the way a hospital should run?

When you live in Phuket on a full time basis you can judge things inherently different than a visitor. This is not the first case I have seen nor heard about. Why even the other day I took off my footwear as is custom, not 1 minute later had a shard of broken glass embedded in my foot. I pulled it out and gave it to the nurse who just shrugged it off and threw it in the bin. Did someone come to sweep the floor ...NO. Told my wife about it who had visited the day before, she said a nurse had dropped a glass and just picked up the big bits, no one swept up the rest. Is this the sign of a well run hospital ?

I can only make my assessment on what I know.

The other day I could't understand what Alphonse was saying though he was quite lucid. I noticed that his lower dentures were in 2 halves. Lucky he hadn't swallowed them as he is forced to lay prone. Called the nurse, who called the supervisor who just shrugged the matter off. Did they even offer to take the dentures to the dental department for repair. NO. just left them in a jar by the bed. Looking at his profile sheet it was not mentioned that he even had a full set of dentures. Is this good admission procedure ? I took them to my own dentist to have them repaired, the hospital just wasn't interested.

I understand all you say about the insurance aspect, but firmly believe using Sean's statements as a guide he was led to believe by the salesperson that he was covered for every eventuality. He accepts this and realises nothing can be done until he returns home and seeks legal advise.

The main thing that has to be done ATM is to stabilise the spiralling costs and get him home. With that in mind I'm off to do another dual hospital visit and post here if there is more information.

Sean rang me a few minutes ago to thank everyone, even indirectly for their help, and to say the embassy was now in touch and were providing advice.

At least some good has come out of stirring the pot.

sportsman69,

Firstly, I think it's great that you are helping Sean out. Too few people in this world offer such hospitality and I'm sure you're doing a great job.

I've read your post above as well as the link to the other post. I agree it is unacceptable to run a hospital in such a way, even if there is doubt in the patient's ability to pay. That is a matter for Accounts Receivable, not doctors and nurses. As I mentioned, my experience was quite different, but then, I didn't visit the wards.

I have been a patient at BNH in BKK myself and was certainly very satisfied.

Wishing Sean all the best for a speedy recovery.

Cheers

Nige'

[Nigel1500]

Your post seems to point in the direction that I am thinking as well, being that an international permit is not required in Thailand.

Homelicense, provided in English, would be enough. Take e.g. this article from your link:

"

• Contracting Parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:
  
  • domestic driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 6 to the Convention;
    
  • international driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 7 to the Convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driver's license;
    

  [*]driver's licenses issued by a Contracting Party shall be recognized in the territory of another Contracting Party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;"

Steve,

The Permit is MOST CERTAINLY REQUIRED in Thailand. Both must be supplied together.

Cheers

Nige'

Edited July 11, 2012 by Nigel1500

[Nigel1500]

sportsman69,

More generally,[...........]

Cheers

Nigel1500

Nigel.

Thank you for your informative and frank understanding of the matter.

I was being critical of the hospital not because of the security guard, they possibly have very good reason from past events. If when coming into my friends room, see........ http://www.thaivisa....d-but-no-cover/

post # 20, you think this is the way a hospital should run?

When you live in Phuket on a full time basis you can judge things inherently different than a visitor. This is not the first case I have seen nor heard about. Why even the other day I took off my footwear as is custom, not 1 minute later had a shard of broken glass embedded in my foot. gave it to the nurse who just shrugged it off. Did someone come to sweep the floor ...NO. Told my wife about it who had visited the day before, she said the nurse had dropped a glass and just picked up the big bits, no one swept up the rest. Is this the sign of a well run hospital ?

I can only make my assessment on what I know.

The other day I could't understand what Alphonse was saying though he was quite lucid. I noticed that his lower dentures were in 2 halves. Lucky he hadn't swallowed them as he is forced to lay prone. Called the nurse, who called the supervisor who just shrugged the matter off. Did they even offer to take the dentures to the dental department for repair. NO. just left them in a jar by the bed. Looking at his profile sheet it was not mentioned that he even had a full set of dentures. Is this good admission procedure ? I took them to my own dentist to have them repaired, the hospital just wasn't interested.

I understand all you say about the insurance aspect, but firmly believe using Sean's statements as a guide he was led to believe by the salesperson that he was covered for every eventuality. He accepts this and realises nothing can be done until he returns home and seeks legal advise.

The main thing that has to be done ATM is to stabilise the spiralling costs and get him home. With that in mind I'm off to do another dual hospital visit and post here if there is more information.

Sean rang me a few minutes ago to thank everyone, even indirectly for their help, and to say the embassy was now in touch and were providing advice.

At least some good has come out of stirring the pot.

Don't blame your negative attitude on living on Phuket. Many people living here have a far different attitude.

Well done for Sean BTW.

Where is the "negative attitude" in his post???? He was just giving a factual account of an incident, and the poor service at this hospital.

There is a whole thread dedicated to the quality of food and service for restaurants on Phuket. Do the posters on that thread, who are critical of a restaurant, have a negative attitude towards Phuket because they were not impressed with the restaurant????

NamKang,

I think Steve was referring to sportsman69's earlier post.

Cheers

Nige'

[stevenl]

NamKang,

I think Steve was referring to sportsman69's earlier post.

Cheers

Nige'

Thanks for that. As the Iceman very well knows he is on my ignorelist, so I can't see any of his posts. So as he very well knows there is no point for him asking me any questions.

[stevenl]

Your post seems to point in the direction that I am thinking as well, being that an international permit is not required in Thailand.

Homelicense, provided in English, would be enough. Take e.g. this article from your link:

"

• Contracting Parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:
  
  • domestic driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 6 to the Convention;
    
  • international driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 7 to the Convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driver's license;
    

  [*]driver's licenses issued by a Contracting Party shall be recognized in the territory of another Contracting Party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;"

Steve,

The Permit is MOST CERTAINLY REQUIRED in Thailand. Both must be supplied together.

Cheers

Nige'

Thanks, but: where do you base this one? The link you supplied states something different, namely that only home license is required.

[NamKangMan]

NamKang,

I think Steve was referring to sportsman69's earlier post.

Cheers

Nige'

Thanks for that. As the Iceman very well knows he is on my ignorelist, so I can't see any of his posts. So as he very well knows there is no point for him asking me any questions.

Ahh, yes, I forgot about you ignoring me. If you can't see any of my posts, how did you know I asked you a question???? :)

[simple1]

Gentlemen, there is another thread covering this incident "Insured but no cover". In Post #81 it states @ simple. I believe the licence situation bears no relevance at the moment. All efforts should be to get this poor young guy away as fast as possible from the LOS read, land of scams.

I wont state here what I know about his licence situation. Thanks, you obviously show some concern.

It's a straight forward Y/N answer, so possible that Sean doesn't have the relevant license for driving a motorbike in Thailand.

Edited July 11, 2012 by simple1

[RaoulDuke]

No intelligence here too. I suppose you don't pay for insurance either. You should do some reading before something uncontrollable happens to you. BTW, I work as a consultant and have paid for my own insurance for 29 years. You will call me stupid, but I paid nothing, here in Thailand, for 2 cases of Dengue, and 3 motorcycle accidents, one of them criticle.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about USA health insurance. I have had insurance for as long as I have been working. The one time I actually needed it for something more than a check up, was a relatively minor surgery. I was receiving $1000+ bills for 'co-pays' from at least 3-4 different sources, the doctor gets a co-pay, the hospital gets a co-pay, the anesthesiologist gets a co-pay, etc. I could have had the whole procedure done just as well in a hospital in Thailand for less money than I paid with my wonderful insurance policy (which was an employer-provided policy with fairly decent coverage, relatively speaking). Then there are the HMO scams, where you need to see your primary provider, including the office co-pay, just to get a referral to a specialist. Of course, even if the PCP does not know what is wrong with you and you ask for a specialist, they will still turn you into their own little guinea pig, trying a new Rx on you every time you visit (copay each visit). Then, after 3 or 4 failed Rx's and wasted visits, they will finally give you a referral to a specialist, charging you again just to justify their incompetence, so you can go pay a considerably higher co-pay for the specialist. Of course, the drug companies make a fortune by turning all doctors into pill pushers, even bribing them to prescribe meds that will not help. This is the FUTURE of healthcare for all of the world, but it is the present condition of healthcare in the USA. But what do I know, despite most of my friends/family working in the healthcare industry and my own personal experience, I have no intelligence.

[sportsman69]

Gentlemen, there is another thread covering this incident "Insured but no cover". In Post #81 it states @ simple. I believe the licence situation bears no relevance at the moment. All efforts should be to get this poor young guy away as fast as possible from the LOS read, land of scams.

I wont state here what I know about his licence situation. Thanks, you obviously show some concern.

It's a straight forward Y/N answer, so possible that Sean doesn't have the relevant license for driving a motorbike in Thailand.

His contact number is published, give him a call. Don't talk to the jockey when you can talk to the horse.

I will not make any statement that may predijuice any claim he might have

[Nigel1500]

Your post seems to point in the direction that I am thinking as well, being that an international permit is not required in Thailand.

Homelicense, provided in English, would be enough. Take e.g. this article from your link:

"

• Contracting Parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:
  
  • domestic driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 6 to the Convention;
    
  • international driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 7 to the Convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driver's license;
    

  [*]driver's licenses issued by a Contracting Party shall be recognized in the territory of another Contracting Party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;"

Steve,

The Permit is MOST CERTAINLY REQUIRED in Thailand. Both must be supplied together.

Cheers

Nige'

Thanks, but: where do you base this one? The link you supplied states something different, namely that only home license is required.

Not quite sure what you mean Steve. The Thai law requires and international drivers permit under the 1968 Convention. The only time you can use your native drivers licence is where Thailand has an agreement with a neighbouring country such as Cambodia and Laos, not sure about Malaysia, but my wife has used her Thai licence in Laos. Australia and New Zealand apparently have a similar reciprocal agreement. The 1968 Convention requires that the native licence be carried with the Permit.

At least, that's how I read the relationship between the two instruments. If you think differently you're going to have to spell it out for me ... I'm stretching the brain function as it is.

Cheers

Nige'

[Nigel1500]

Gentlemen, there is another thread covering this incident "Insured but no cover". In Post #81 it states @ simple. I believe the licence situation bears no relevance at the moment. All efforts should be to get this poor young guy away as fast as possible from the LOS read, land of scams.

I wont state here what I know about his licence situation. Thanks, you obviously show some concern.

It's a straight forward Y/N answer, so possible that Sean doesn't have the relevant license for driving a motorbike in Thailand.

I disagree, the Covermore insurance policy requires that, if taking out the optional motorcycle cover, the person covered must hold a motorcycle licence valid in the country visited. This is where the home licence and international drivers permit become important.

[stevenl]

Your post seems to point in the direction that I am thinking as well, being that an international permit is not required in Thailand.

Homelicense, provided in English, would be enough. Take e.g. this article from your link:

"

• Contracting Parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:
  
  • domestic driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 6 to the Convention;
    
  • international driver's license conforming to the provisions of Annex 7 to the Convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driver's license;
    

  [*]driver's licenses issued by a Contracting Party shall be recognized in the territory of another Contracting Party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;"

Steve,

The Permit is MOST CERTAINLY REQUIRED in Thailand. Both must be supplied together.

Cheers

Nige'

Thanks, but: where do you base this one? The link you supplied states something different, namely that only home license is required.

Not quite sure what you mean Steve. The Thai law requires and international drivers permit under the 1968 Convention. The only time you can use your native drivers licence is where Thailand has an agreement with a neighbouring country such as Cambodia and Laos, not sure about Malaysia, but my wife has used her Thai licence in Laos. Australia and New Zealand apparently have a similar reciprocal agreement. The 1968 Convention requires that the native licence be carried with the Permit.

At least, that's how I read the relationship between the two instruments. If you think differently you're going to have to spell it out for me ... I'm stretching the brain function as it is.

Cheers

Nige'

1968 convention, isn't that the one Thailand did not sign?

But still: nobody can point me towards the Thai law stating IDP is required.

[simple1]

Gentlemen, there is another thread covering this incident "Insured but no cover". In Post #81 it states @ simple. I believe the licence situation bears no relevance at the moment. All efforts should be to get this poor young guy away as fast as possible from the LOS read, land of scams.

I wont state here what I know about his licence situation. Thanks, you obviously show some concern.

It's a straight forward Y/N answer, so possible that Sean doesn't have the relevant license for driving a motorbike in Thailand.

His contact number is published, give him a call. Don't talk to the jockey when you can talk to the horse.

I will not make any statement that may predijuice any claim he might have

No I will not call him. I am a complete stranger so why would he disclose to me that he does, or more to the point, does not hold a valid driving license for Thailand. No license, no claim - easy to understand

I hope Sean recovers quickly and can move on with his life.

Edited July 12, 2012 by simple1

[Jimi007]

Well it seem that Bangkok Phuket Hospital is getting some bad press from this whole affair in New Zealand; "Staff at a Thai hospital are refusing to perform surgery on a New Zealand man because he can't pay the bill for previous operations, according to his family."

Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Thai-hospital-refuses-care-for-Kiwi-man/tabid/423/articleID/261310/Default.aspx#ixzz20ZZBDl9p

[BusyBee123]

Well it seem that Bangkok Phuket Hospital is getting some bad press from this whole affair in New Zealand; "Staff at a Thai hospital are refusing to perform surgery on a New Zealand man because he can't pay the bill for previous operations, according to his family."

Read more: http://www.3news.co....x#ixzz20ZZBDl9p

shame the article misses the whole point he is in a private hospital and can be moved, are they not getting this information and wasting money for treatment he can get for a tenth of the price in a national hospital and for the same quality from my experience. No need to slag off thailand for a quite correct refusal from a business to continue medication when they haven't been paid and have been given no assurance they will be paid.. If you want BUPA style hospital treatment pay up or get medication within your means.