Harsh Lesson Or Job Well Done...Daughter Swept Down River

[ExpatJ]

Somewhat over exaggerations and assumptions here by you.....all which lead to your theory.....a theory of someone not being Johnny on the spot.

You can make up as many possible problems and situations as you like....would you like me to run a few by you when you take your child to school or such ??

But I would never be so quick to presume facts and scenarios that were not correct.

One thing though...and there is some leeway for this considering it is the internet and the person on the other end is an unknown factor....but do not proceed to tell me that I do not protect and or watch after my kids....you have no idea of such, so don't go there.

Your words, not mine:

"My 7yo daughter was rolling about in the water before the rapid section...she rolled too far and got sucked into the stream and floated down the river.... By the time my 10yo son alerted me as I was looking at rocks below my feet...he was laughing and yelling 'look xxxx is floating down the river'"

"Mind you, she was panicking and going under water and crying all at the same time."

"The current in this little section was quite strong, I later stood in it and it was chest deep in couple of places, but it swpet me away, could not stand still."

Exactly...and your assumptions from not being there should not be as exaggerated as they are.

For example...when I say current in this 'little section'.......how long are you imagining this section ??

The chset deep section....how long do you imagine this section and how wide ??

The area beyond this small section...what did your imagination perceive it to be and how far to it ??

How long do you perceive the 'by the time my son alerted me' to be exactly and where was I standing in relation ??

'going under the water'....how did you view this in your imagination, what depth was she going down to and for how many seconds at a time and for what distance ??

lol Siamsam- you told us yourself what was happening as you looked on ""Mind you, she was panicking and going under water and crying all at the same time."- its always easy to use suffering on weaker people to teach them lessons, and 7 year old girls, well that's almost too easy , congrats- you must be proud .

Edited July 9, 2012 by ExpatJ

[chrisinth]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

I have been in that situation a few times in various oceans & seas around the world, and like you rightly say, it is not a nice memory. But I think the closest I ever came to actually drowning was in a swimming pool where we had been diving and staying under for as long as we could. I had just surfaced as a young girl jumped in, caught my head between her legs and took me back down again. She had no idea I had just exhalled before this happened and thought it was a joke. I have been swimming all my life and am confident in the water, but there wasn't a thing I could do in that situation, without paniking. Accidents and incidents happen! Funny afterwards!

Why I think Sam was right in what he did, was because it was controlled. He is a parent and he made a decision, one of the hundreds or thousands he has/will make in his life towards his daughter. Unless I am badly mistaken, he isn't a nutter and certainly wouldn't want any harm to come to his family.I think a lot of the comments on this thread have painted the scenario a lot more dangerous.than it actually was.

As for the memory to stay with the girl for the rest of her life, I would very much doubt it. If they were re-enacting the event shortly afterwards, if the memory does stay, it will only be a good one.

[samsiam]

We all see the argument you are groping for- that there is danger in every day life (e.g. taking a taxi) so why worry? The point is that AT THE POINT where potential danger manifests to actual suffering i.e. your daughter experienced a near drowning experience, you chose to let her continue experience that suffering and you seem to have relished the experience.

Yes, I relished it for her and her future...or do you not have the ability to think about prospects for your children...if you have any ??

And it was not a near drowning experience.....I have had them before, nowhere close with your groping.

The suffering was happening, instantly grabbing her and pulling her out was not going to stop it...however a few extra seconds was going to give her a very strong lesson and respect for water...

I used to fall off my pony as a child and bawl...my dad threw me back on still bawling....I grew up still loving horses....real life lessons as opposed to your books I much prefer...i know it seems old fashioned right ?? but it works much much better.

[samsiam]

Lol....do you ever take your child out in Thai traffic ??...a taxi perhaps ??....I would have no doubt that my 99% assurance would beat your assurance over your taxi driver.

Get a grip really.

I prefer life experiences over a sterile environment like you seem to prefer.

Quite a few assumptions you have made. I haven't mentioned anything about what sort of environment I raise my kids in.

What I did do, is say that in a situation where without my assistance my daughter would probably have drowned, I'd save her first and see to the lessons after. And yes... you weren't watching, your son alerted you.... lucky.

The reaction to various posters who have shown a difference of opinion underlines the key issue. Will leave you to it. Happy you were lucky this time.

There lies the difference...mine can swim very well as stated in above posts...winning a swim comp a couple weeks ago....but the panic set in and that cannot be taught to be over some in a sterile pool environment.

It was not luck....

[somtumlion]

Don't you guys have anything better to do? You both have big penises. Congratulations.

[ExpatJ]

Don't you guys have anything better to do? You both have big penises. Congratulations.

Yes, but mine is clearly bigger!!

[nocturn]

As said before, how did we survive??

We did.....but more to the point how will these kids of today survive in the future.

A good bit of nasty dirty river water in your lungs and guts.......or never and panic when you are 25yo and drown cos you have no idea.

By the way...our river is clean....comes out of the mountains, no big farms or villages to pass through and relatively very small catchment area before reaches us....i have even drank it several times.....imagine that hey....drinking river water.

Sorry pal, but there can be no excuses.

You placed the child in a precarious and uncontrolled situation. You gambled that the little girl would be able to over come the forces of the river and make it out safely.

Your discernment and actions in this case are those of an idiot.

I would be very interested to know more about your farming business, how you came to have exclusive rights over a river on agricultural land that probably you are not entitled to own and whether or not the said children are actually your kids or step children? Because if I was in knowledge of this information, I would have no hesitation in reporting you to the authorities to ensure the welfare and safety of those children.

If so sure that you are a competent parent or guardian and a bona-fide farm owner, than why not put it to the test? Only need to PM me the details, to see if the police will share the same opinions as yourself?

my lord, what are you on about?

Police?

Would i be correct in assuming that you are a retired peace officer yourself?

[Beetlejuice]

I wonder what the outcome would have been if the 10 year old boy had not been watching the girl and not alerted the fool looking down at his feet in the search for pretty stones?

The reason this child survived the ordeal was because of pure luck and events could have easily turned for the worst.

Not smart and if the said children do come to any harm in the future, your statements here can certainly be used against you.

[nocturn]

I wonder what the outcome would have been if the 10 year old boy had not been watching the girl and not alerted the fool looking down at his feet in the search for pretty stones?

The reason this child survived the ordeal was because of pure luck and events could have easily turned for the worst.

Not smart and if the said children do come to any harm in the future, your statements here can certainly be used against you.

righteous indignation feels good doesn't it?

[transam]

In my lifetime l saved two folk from drowning (don't know how ), BUT these folk COULD SWIM.

Lets be careful out there eh.

[canuckamuck]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

Anyone who has come close to drowning has gained something priceless: Respect for water.

I have been in two near drownings myself. Once when I jumped into a pool before i knew how to swim and did not know it was over my head.

And once when I jumped in a lake to save someone else from drowning and the panicking teenager climbed on top of me keeping me down.

In the second instance I managed to shout, before my head went under for the last time, "now save me!" to my friends who were watching from a dock. One of them jumped in and saved us both.

In the first instance my older brother saw me flailing in the pool and instead of jumping in he kept encouraging me, he told me I was doing a good job at treading water. I flailed my way to side of the pool and learned something about survival. My brother could have saved me at any time, he was 5 years older and an excellent swimmer. But he took the opportunity to teach me something instead.

Edited July 9, 2012 by canuckamuck

[samsiam]

I wonder what the outcome would have been if the 10 year old boy had not been watching the girl and not alerted the fool looking down at his feet in the search for pretty stones?

The reason this child survived the ordeal was because of pure luck and events could have easily turned for the worst.

Not smart and if the said children do come to any harm in the future, your statements here can certainly be used against you.

I am reminded of my own youth here when my favourite word was 'tosspot'.

BJ...nice abbreviation by the way....pure luck is for you to believe in and lottery tickets.....good luck with that.

You should enter the real world some time and see how things work.

[samsiam]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

Anyone who has come close to drowning has gained something priceless: Respect for water.

I have been in two near drownings myself. Once when I jumped into a pool before i knew how to swim and did not know it was over my head.

And once when I jumped in a lake to save someone else from drowning and the panicking teenager climbed on top of me keeping me down.

In the second instance I managed to shout, before my head went under for the last time, "now save me!" to my friends who were watching from a dock. One of them jumped in and saved us both.

In the first instance my older brother saw me flailing in the pool and instead of jumping in he kept encouraging me, he told me I was doing a good job at treading water. I flailed my way to side of the pool and learned something about survival. My brother could have saved me at any time, he was 5 years older and an excellent swimmer. But he took the opportunity to teach me something instead.

And we can tell you are scarred for life from it....twice in fact.

[geriatrickid]

There lies the difference...mine can swim very well as stated in above posts...winning a swim comp a couple weeks ago....but the panic set in and that cannot be taught to be over some in a sterile pool environment.

It was not luck....

I suggest you approach one of the medical or safety journals and publish your experiment as it goes against the established appeoach. The RLSS and Red Cross swim safe educational programs and training are quite different. Who knows, perhaps you will change the common approach now used by life saving organizations around the world. If these journals do not accept your submission, I'm sure you will at leasted get nominated for a Darwin Award.

One does not control a person that is panicing. At best, one manages the situation and can act to reduce panic. Therein lies your blindness. You think you were in control. As you did not control the currents nor the child's behaviour, you should not claim that you were in control.

In respect to your comment about a flotation device in the bath, it really isn't approrpiate. However, it is an accepted fact that one does not leave young children alone in the bath. You are unwilling to accept that your decision was not a wise one and that you gambled with the life of the child. I can offer all sorts of arguments to show why it was not the best decision in the circumstances, but you are neither interested, nor care, so really, there is point in continuing the discussion save to receive accolades for your "innovative" drown proofing exercise.

[Rsquared]

I grew up in the Aussie surf and have had many experiences where I have taken on waves beyond my capabilities and am still here to talk about it.

Why I survived is the same reason that Sam was teaching his daughter...............don't panic.......stay calm.

Try teaching that to someone in a swimming pool environment and you may as well convince yourself that pigs can fly.

[samsiam]

There lies the difference...mine can swim very well as stated in above posts...winning a swim comp a couple weeks ago....but the panic set in and that cannot be taught to be over some in a sterile pool environment.

It was not luck....

I suggest you approach one of the medical or safety journals and publish your experiment as it goes against the established appeoach. The RLSS and Red Cross swim safe educational programs and training are quite different. Who knows, perhaps you will change the common approach now used by life saving organizations around the world. If these journals do not accept your submission, I'm sure you will at leasted get nominated for a Darwin Award.

One does not control a person that is panicing. At best, one manages the situation and can act to reduce panic. Therein lies your blindness. You think you were in control. As you did not control the currents nor the child's behaviour, you should not claim that you were in control.

In respect to your comment about a flotation device in the bath, it really isn't approrpiate. However, it is an accepted fact that one does not leave young children alone in the bath. You are unwilling to accept that your decision was not a wise one and that you gambled with the life of the child. I can offer all sorts of arguments to show why it was not the best decision in the circumstances, but you are neither interested, nor care, so really, there is point in continuing the discussion save to receive accolades for your "innovative" drown proofing exercise.

There you are assuming something that you know all about...when you were not at the situation.

The decision was not unwise, so therefore you are correct.

The situation was under control by myself...failure to recognise that is understandable from someone commenting with no idea of the actual situation other than some descriptions from someone over the internet....you do realise the internet is not everything right and there is some reality out there beyond it to deal with and it involves real life situations....one that I decided to use for the good of my child......while being at no risk and under my control.

You are as foolish as BJ if you continue that line without any idea yourself of the exact scenario that went down.

Gambling with the life of a child is one hell of a claim....you should really stop there with such ridiculous claims.

I would do the same again tomorrow given the exact same or similar circumstances....without the blink of an eye....

[Farma]

Gee there's some panic merchants in this thread aint there.

My introduction to swimming was in the local pool as a toddler. The swim instructor saw me cheating by pretending to swim while at the same time pulling myself along on fingertips.

He took me to the deep end of the pool threw me in and told me in a stern voice to swim to the other side. Yepp I soon knew how to swim.

As for being scarred, no way...it was the best thing he ever did. I enjoyed swimming after that and even now have no qualms about jumping off a boat into 200+ metres deep water.

[nocturn]

Gee there's some panic merchants in this thread aint there.

My introduction to swimming was in the local pool as a toddler. The swim instructor saw me cheating by pretending to swim while at the same time pulling myself along on fingertips.

He took me to the deep end of the pool threw me in and told me in a stern voice to swim to the other side. Yepp I soon knew how to swim.

As for being scarred, no way...it was the best thing he ever did. I enjoyed swimming after that and even now have no qualms about jumping off a boat into 200+ metres deep water.

there are also a fair few numpties who have strong opinions about how others should raise their children.

When i rear that strident tone of righteousness i thank heaven i left when i did.

[Farma]

nocturn all I can say is some people must have led a very sheltered life.

[pattayadingo]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

Congrats to you and your daughter (more importantly).

But the harsh moral of the story, is that a person with young children, should never purchase a property near water.

Or a railway line, for that matter. Kids simply do not have the knowledge or experience.

What about all of us who were brought up at the seaside? Every summer down on the beach diving in and out of the waves. Walking along the base of the cliffs to find crabs and shellfish in the rock pools. Dodging the waves on the sea front.

Down the woods with a rope swing over the river. Paddling miles up river and having great fun.

Should we have all lived away from water?

Water, rivers, the sea can all be dangerous if you do not respect it. We were taught - as the OP's daughter to learn to swim. Now the Op's daughter has a new found respect for the water. I think the OP did a good job in not panicking himself and taught his daughter a valuable lesson.

[edwinclapham]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

Congrats to you and your daughter (more importantly).

But the harsh moral of the story, is that a person with young children, should never purchase a property near water.

Or a railway line, for that matter. Kids simply do not have the knowledge or experience.

What about all of us who were brought up at the seaside? Every summer down on the beach diving in and out of the waves. Walking along the base of the cliffs to find crabs and shellfish in the rock pools. Dodging the waves on the sea front.

Down the woods with a rope swing over the river. Paddling miles up river and having great fun.

Should we have all lived away from water?

Water, rivers, the sea can all be dangerous if you do not respect it. We were taught - as the OP's daughter to learn to swim. Now the Op's daughter has a new found respect for the water. I think the OP did a good job in not panicking himself and taught his daughter a valuable lesson.

Totally agree, our children have been in the pool since birth and are actively taking swimming lessons now. The younger the better!

[samsiam]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

Congrats to you and your daughter (more importantly).

But the harsh moral of the story, is that a person with young children, should never purchase a property near water.

Or a railway line, for that matter. Kids simply do not have the knowledge or experience.

What about all of us who were brought up at the seaside? Every summer down on the beach diving in and out of the waves. Walking along the base of the cliffs to find crabs and shellfish in the rock pools. Dodging the waves on the sea front.

Down the woods with a rope swing over the river. Paddling miles up river and having great fun.

Should we have all lived away from water?

Water, rivers, the sea can all be dangerous if you do not respect it. We were taught - as the OP's daughter to learn to swim. Now the Op's daughter has a new found respect for the water. I think the OP did a good job in not panicking himself and taught his daughter a valuable lesson.

To be honest....we need to give some consideration to those that do not believe in outdoor type activities and such. not everyone has the ability, or desire to do such stuff...so I can understand there view on such over the top behaviour.

Without those types of people....I doubt indoor cricket or bingo would have been developed.

[cornishcarlos]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

Congrats to you and your daughter (more importantly).

But the harsh moral of the story, is that a person with young children, should never purchase a property near water.

Or a railway line, for that matter. Kids simply do not have the knowledge or experience.

What about all of us who were brought up at the seaside? Every summer down on the beach diving in and out of the waves. Walking along the base of the cliffs to find crabs and shellfish in the rock pools. Dodging the waves on the sea front.

Down the woods with a rope swing over the river. Paddling miles up river and having great fun.

Should we have all lived away from water?

Water, rivers, the sea can all be dangerous if you do not respect it. We were taught - as the OP's daughter to learn to swim. Now the Op's daughter has a new found respect for the water. I think the OP did a good job in not panicking himself and taught his daughter a valuable lesson.

Totally agree, our children have been in the pool since birth and are actively taking swimming lessons now. The younger the better!

They must be very wrinkly kids by now

[SteveLynch]

sam i think your initial post had quite colourful description of the incident ,i was envisioning a raging rapid but after a further read you seem t know this stretch of river quite well so felt you had a potentially dangerous situation under control,i admire your confidence

The thing about dangerous situations is your concept of control can change in an instant ,so unless you have competly reviewed every possible sceneriaro ,that level of risk has just risen dramatically ,you may feel you knew what you where doing ,but rivers just like fires bite and bite hard ,what if you had slipped on the bank hit your head been injured yourself ,your decision to grab your child when you had the first chance ,for sure wouldn't be something i would want in my heart .but maybe im a bit soft

im not gonna have a go at your parenting skills ,but even with the amount of time i have spent on water i wouldn't have tried that ,i wouldn't never be able to look my family in the eye had it gone wrong .

but every father knows whats best for his kids .

Rsquared as a fellow mariner im quite saddened that you would take this stance ,,especially as you are Australian and water safety is rammed down your throat as a child growing up there ,

ii really hope you are not a watch keeper on my ship ,of fear i drop in the drink i hope your cavalier attitude isn't on watch with you that day maybe you think i might need a swimming lesson too .

just a further point how many of the posters here would allow the OP to supervise their own children down at this quaint little harmless stream

regards

steve

[SteveLynch]

please excuse my typing i am at work and the keyboard jams ,it sucks s really

the bad grammar well thats just me

[Rsquared]

sam i think your initial post had quite colourful description of the incident ,i was envisioning a raging rapid but after a further read you seem t know this stretch of river quite well so felt you had a potentially dangerous situation under control,i admire your confidence

The thing about dangerous situations is your concept of control can change in an instant ,so unless you have competly reviewed every possible sceneriaro ,that level of risk has just risen dramatically ,you may feel you knew what you where doing ,but rivers just like fires bite and bite hard ,what if you had slipped on the bank hit your head been injured yourself ,your decision to grab your child when you had the first chance ,for sure wouldn't be something i would want in my heart .but maybe im a bit soft

im not gonna have a go at your parenting skills ,but even with the amount of time i have spent on water i wouldn't have tried that ,i wouldn't never be able to look my family in the eye had it gone wrong .

but every father knows whats best for his kids .

Rsquared as a fellow mariner im quite saddened that you would take this stance ,,especially as you are Australian and water safety is rammed down your throat as a child growing up there ,

ii really hope you are not a watch keeper on my ship ,of fear i drop in the drink i hope your cavalier attitude isn't on watch with you that day maybe you think i might need a swimming lesson too .

just a further point how many of the posters here would allow the OP to supervise their own children down at this quaint little harmless stream

regards

steve

Well if you were on my ship and you fell in the drink, I can only say that you must have been doing something really stupid to end up there in the first place. But I would complete a "Williamsons Turn" to pluck your sorry arse out of the drink.

Safety is paramount, but over the years even that has crossed the stupidity line..........I believe in good old fashioned common sense.

Common sense........very few people seem to have that nowadays.

[SteveLynch]

im just looking at 3 guys doing some rope access work on the aft at the minute ,so been close to the water is a common occurrence on a working vessel ,thats why we have these safety systems

i am glad you have come and saved me all the same

[samsiam]

just a further point how many of the posters here would allow the OP to supervise their own children down at this quaint little harmless stream

regards

steve

I would hope none....because I would not take the responsibility of other peoples kids in such an environment without those parents also being there....nor would I allow my kids to go with other parents........nobody takes my kids swimming but me in general......except at school.

[brit1984]

As parents, we have to provide our kids with a balance of exposure (to learn) and protection (from danger).

There is no correct degree of balance between these two opposing factors so we have to use our judgement.

None of us can say whether Sam made the right or wrong decisions but we can all learn from this story.

[samsiam]

None of us can say whether Sam made the right or wrong decisions but we can all learn from this story.

Agreed.

And that lesson is that BeetleJuice is a freakin looney.