Thailand Needs Core Water Management System: Dutch Architect

[webfact]

'Core water management system needed'

Henry Lewis,

Pratch Rujivanarom

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Thailand should focus on crafting an integrated system where all mechanisms for water management come under one ruling body to combat flooding more effectively, Dutch architect Cornelius Dijkgraaf suggested at a seminar.

He said 26 per cent of the Netherlands was below sea level and a complex system of dams and canals was needed to keep the country dry. He explained that in his country, the Transport, Public Works and Water Management ministries worked together to control all water-related issues, unlike in Thailand where there is no central control.

"Here, if you travel from the North to the sea, you go past about 30 or 40 different authorities. One is opening the screw and the other is closing it," Dijkgraaf said.

Scientists met at the seminar on Thursday to discuss the steps that Thailand should be taking to prevent a repeat of last year's flood crisis. The seminar was held soon after the government announced that it was earmarking more than Bt300 billion for water management.

Surajate Boonya-Aroonnet, a researcher from the Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute, told the seminar of the government's efforts to share information about water levels and rainfall with the public via a website, ThaiWater.net.

The authorities have also positioned cameras on bridges to monitor water levels, are employing unmanned aircraft to examine dams, and have started using boats to push water out to sea.

He also said there had been fewer major storms and less rainfall so far this year compared with the same period last year. "Things are better this year."

Speaking at the same seminar, Komsan Malesee, from King Mongkut's University of Technology's civil engineering department, blamed the 2011 flooding on bad planning and said everybody needed to work together in the face of future crises.

"There was insufficient communication among different organisations and information wasn't passed along, " he said. "Even villagers did not work together because they didn't know what to do. That's why it's important for this knowledge to be out there."

The seminar, held at King Mongkut's University in Bangkok, included residents from the city's Lat Krabang district who suffered a lot from the crisis, and it appears the forum was held to allay their fears.

However, Dijkgraaf warned the audience that this problem would not go away soon, especially since Bangkok is sinking by 2.5 centimetres every year.

"That's a lot. In 50 years, it will be a metre. The sea is also rising," he said, adding that people had to find long-term solutions. "But they first have to understand how serious it is."

-- The Nation 2012-07-14

[MaxLee]

Hahahahahaaaaa,.... do you think that "face-saving-worrisome nation along with their corrupt politicians" will listen to the Dutch experts? It's too much "shame for a Puu yai to admit fault" and to "admit you are weak"???

[Notstupid30]

useless trolop ..

[Yunla]

Water-infrastructure management bill, should have been one of the first bills proposed by PTP a year ago, as part of a wider infrastructure package. Rising population, foreign visitors, and an outdated water management system is a recipe for disaster. It is unfortunate that PTP are mono-policy and all their working energies are devoted to organising Thaksin's return, and not organising the nation.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Yunla

[Moruya]

In short, despite all the money and assurances from Yingluck, it's still a chimpanzee's tea party.

[MaxLee]

Water-infrastructure management bill, should have been one of the first bills proposed by PTP a year ago, as part of a wider infrastructure package. Rising population, foreign visitors, and an outdated water management system is a recipe for disaster. It is unfortunate that PTP are mono-policy and all their working energies are devoted to organising Thaksin's return, and not organising the nation.

Do you think any other political party would care. They're all talk, but no action. Whether Abhisit or Yingluck. Doesn't matter. Both of them have to dirt on their fingers.

My guess is nothing will be done by the end of the year.

[Felt 35]

I think they could start with the basics. In part of Phuket town they asphalted over all the plug holes two months ago and now they stand and drill them open

[Yunla]

Do you think any other political party would care. They're all talk, but no action. Whether Abhisit or Yingluck. Doesn't matter. Both of them have to dirt on their fingers.

My guess is nothing will be done by the end of the year.

Abhisit enacted a 3-year infrastructure plan with large investment, during his 2 years, and did so while under violent 3-month seige from armed UDD protesters and constant protests.

Yingluck has had one year of peace, and has enacted no infrastructure bills or investment, she's done very little except avoid parliament altogether, and mismanage the floods too. She has not passed any meaningful bills except for her attempted 'Thaksin-absolution' bill. Oh and she handed out some junk tablets in happy-children photo ops. Infrastructure-wise she's done nothing.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Yunla

[cup-O-coffee]

It's the times we live in.

What's an ignorant, stupid foreigner to do but listen and accept that Thais can figure this out all on their own! Ya think?

Any other approach is a waste of the foreigners time, energy and currency... unless it is the sole purpose and the intention of the foreigner to waste their time, energy and currency on the Thais simply to perpetuate their own foreign existence in this country (NGO's, Politicians, Diplomats, Dignitaries, etc... the by-products of present-day human waste.)

What I mean about that last paragraph is; just because you think you are doing good for the Thai people, and they are giving you the correct favorable reaction; that does not necessarily mean that you are not being manipulated; much like the rat pushing the button to get the overly anticipated sugar pill that you have gotten them addicted to in the first place. You are the button, and they represent the rat that acts out your desire for them to push the button, whereupon they abscond with the sugar pill and swiftly revert back to their rat-like ways after consuming it or letting it go to waste.

Or, if you feel good because they act like they like you, then it is only because you are making them think that they are thinking. Rather if you feel bad because they act like they do not like you, then it is only because you are really making them think.

Either way, these reactions are nothing that flattery and a few bahts into their palms cannot do to quickly mend their misinterpreted smiles or scowls and forgive you and have a go at you yet again.

Perhaps this is a bit of insight as to why the unrestrained floods will outlive any tangible Thai solution, even though the problem is as good as solved in their minds as I type this.

The point of this post is to illustrate why I believe that any advice given by a foreigner to a Thai will be met with suspicion, and the Thais attempt to use that information to benefit their immediate self only. Any remaining benefit to the rest of their countrymen to be nothing more than glorious words of the amazing things to come. These words will be followed by mood swinging music in the background, and mesmerizing propaganda that stir overwhelming emotions of nationalism and pride in the hearts of the ignorant and downtrodden. They will be reminded of how amazing this country is compared to the rest of the world, and that will be good enough for them.

The rain drops that come down represent bahts, not problems.

[sprq]

Expecting co-ordination in Thailand? Well, I'll be a Dutchman!

[dcutman]

Hahahahahaaaaa,.... do you think that "face-saving-worrisome nation along with their corrupt politicians" will listen to the Dutch experts? It's too much "shame for a Puu yai to admit fault" and to "admit you are weak"???

I know the Dutch are trying to help, and know how to deal with water. Not sure why they are wasting there time and knowledge. They definatly do not know how to deal with the Thai mentality. If you want them to go one way, tell them to just the opposite as what you think is right.

[Reasonableman]

Hahahahahaaaaa,.... do you think that "face-saving-worrisome nation along with their corrupt politicians" will listen to the Dutch experts? It's too much "shame for a Puu yai to admit fault" and to "admit you are weak"???

I know the Dutch are trying to help, and know how to deal with water. Not sure why they are wasting there time and knowledge. They definatly do not know how to deal with the Thai mentality. If you want them to go one way, tell them to just the opposite as what you think is right.

You mean, dig huge moats along the coastline to trap the advancing seawater instead of building dykes?

[Dap]

Hahahahahaaaaa,.... do you think that "face-saving-worrisome nation along with their corrupt politicians" will listen to the Dutch experts? It's too much "shame for a Puu yai to admit fault" and to "admit you are weak"???

I know the Dutch are trying to help, and know how to deal with water. Not sure why they are wasting there time and knowledge. They definatly do not know how to deal with the Thai mentality. If you want them to go one way, tell them to just the opposite as what you think is right.

You mean, dig huge moats along the coastline to trap the advancing seawater instead of building dykes?

"That's the ticket".

[puipuitom]

Why a stupid Dutch falang has to tell Thais what to do ?

The superior, all whisdom Thais did all possible already 1000 years ago, even before the Dutch started to build their dikes, and 1143 . ..were asked in what is now Hamburg-Bremen to build dikes.

Just as after 1942 and 1995 the Thais have a MUCH better way: go in temple and pray to overcome their bad karma, as.. THAT is the only way.

And the politicians.. as their bank accounts are not full yet, whoy to loose money in moving mud, stones, concrete structures etc for dikes along the rivers ?

[rubl]

Dutch architect Cornelius Dijkgraaf

Far be it from me to question a fellow Dutchman, but what makes one an expert on water management, being an architect? A quick 'yahooing' only gave me this September 2008 article:

"Mr. Cornelius Dijkgraaf, principal of the non-governmental organization Urban Solutions, in Rotterdam, the Netherlands"

https://www.getty.ed..._siem_reap.html

[thequietman]

You no understand. this is thai culture, normal, you see. why you hate thailand?

Farang no understand ! it is goooood. thailand know better than you. you know...... thailand never been defeated or occupied. you no understand. how much you want to pay ? good price, you want ? why you no like thailand.

[brianP]

The Dutch know their water management through centuries of necessity. Many thanks to all the fine European Nations who have and are helping Thailand.

[Bagwan]

I would have loved to see the Dutchman's face when using boats to push water out to sea was mentioned. I wonder if anybody will believe him when he gets home and tells his associates that.

[ytyt]

Dutch architect Cornelius Dijkgraaf

Far be it from me to question a fellow Dutchman, but what makes one an expert on water management, being an architect? A quick 'yahooing' only gave me this September 2008 article:

"Mr. Cornelius Dijkgraaf, principal of the non-governmental organization Urban Solutions, in Rotterdam, the Netherlands"

https://www.getty.ed..._siem_reap.html

Perhaps because the Thais spelled his name wrong, for example http://www.palembang.go.id/?nmodul=berita&bhsnyo=en&bid=291 and so on. The CV http://www.housing.arch.chula.ac.th/05_news/05_data/Announcement53/Cor%20CV.pdf says he is retired and consulting to keep busy; this URL suggests that he is known at the architecture faculty at Chula. Also google the NGO Urban Solutions.

There is also a Dutch engineer who seems familiar with the countryside and dams of the North, who I thought gave some very nice commentary right here on ThaVisa during and after the flooding, but I do not remember him ever mentioning his real name.

[stefb1964]

I only hope that he used the right approach to get the issue explained to the Thai. We all know we can't say things to Thai people the same way we do in the west. I'm pretty well in place to know that the Dutch (no hard feelings guys) tend to have a very direct way of saying things. Some would call it a hard way. Even for us Belgian it's sometime as much as provocation, although they say they're being assertive... Let's see how they take it.

[attento]

Did the Dutchman really say that 2.5cm a year for 50 years is 1 meter ?

I never could get the hang of the metric system.

[oz93666]

"......have started using boats to push water out to sea." ......???

[MikeOboe57]

"......have started using boats to push water out to sea." ......???

Seems they insist on looking like idiots.

[JulesMad]

...If it aint Dutch, it aint much...

[hellodolly]

Water-infrastructure management bill, should have been one of the first bills proposed by PTP a year ago, as part of a wider infrastructure package. Rising population, foreign visitors, and an outdated water management system is a recipe for disaster. It is unfortunate that PTP are mono-policy and all their working energies are devoted to organising Thaksin's return, and not organising the nation.

Do you think any other political party would care. They're all talk, but no action. Whether Abhisit or Yingluck. Doesn't matter. Both of them have to dirt on their fingers.

My guess is nothing will be done by the end of the year.

Well that is kind of a stupid statement. Of course they are al talk no action. Did you really think Thaksin was going to let his opponents do any thing other than talk.

[hellodolly]

I think they could start with the basics. In part of Phuket town they asphalted over all the plug holes two months ago and now they stand and drill them open

That is part of the article unify the efforts at controlling it. Not each city do their own thing.

[hellodolly]

I LIKED THESE TWO pARAGRAPHS

""Here, if you travel from the North to the sea, you go past about 30 or 40 different authorities. One is opening the screw and the other is closing it," Dijkgraaf said. very sad but very true.

Scientists met at the seminar on Thursday to discuss the steps that Thailand should be taking to prevent a repeat of last year's flood crisis. The seminar was held soon after the government announced that it was earmarking more than Bt300 billion for water management." They announce that they are going to have a seminarright after the government announces it is going to spend 300,000.000 baht on water managment.

No surprise there open up the bank account and they get in line for their hand out.

What they should do if they think 300,000,000 baht will do it is offer 350,000,000 baht to the Dutch to do it. They can then pay off the first 60,000,000 baht to the proper grafters and proceed to do the job rite.

[sunkist]

"boats pushing water out to sea"? I would like to see that.

No offense as Architects are smart, but in my experience an Engineer would be more appropriately consulted.

[Skywalker69]

In short, despite all the money and assurances from Yingluck, it's still a chimpanzee's tea party.

With the Alfa male far of in Dubai.