British Woman R_aped On Holiday In Pattaya

[LazyCat]

I think this happends coz many of us - tourists and othr visitors to Thailand are misled by the " Amaising Thailand the land of smiles" .... it is not that amaising or welcoming anymore....

thais get more angry with the time ( I live here for 13 years now so I guess I can compare) ....

and they blame farangs for most of their problems.... ofcourse if there will be no farang then how will they know that thair dicks are shorter ?

I am not talking for all Thais.... there are good people in all levels of Thai society ...but how many ?

[aqua4]

So she rode on the back of his bike to near his house without a helmet to pick up a helmet that she could wear to Walking Street.

She was on Tepprasit Road, so they went to Soi 17 on the Tepprasit Road his home to pick up a helmet to go to Walking Street. (Nothing wrong, now is there?)

He had told her where he lived or at least the general vicinity...and allegedly raped her in that area.....

He is an amateur and not a psychopath, you commit your crime in an area you feel safe in or know. That would be normal.

DNA does not prove rape....It only shows that the male has had sex with the girl. The subject of consent is another issue entirely.

Well since we are not privy to ALL the information, we would assume that as in any other rape case you would make use of a rape kit for examination and also examine the condition of not only the victim but also the genital area.

Now for the confession...as I said in the Samui thread....Sometimes faced with DNA evidence the person may confess...after all he probably has limited knowledge of the DNA system....look at this, this way....

Well there was a confession and an identification parade was there not? So guilt was not only admitted but he was also identified by the victim. What knowledge does he need?

So far I have yet to see supporting evidence presented in the reports. There is nothing to suggest she was a first time tourist based on the reports listed here.

What difference would it make if it was her first time in Pattaya or not? There is nothing that can be inferred.

Could I suggest it would be unlikely that a rapist would work so close to home and tell her where he lived....Could this be a case of mistaken but honest belief.....could it be that she has cried rape because of whatever reason ?????

Nope!

Rape is a violent crime not a crime of passion. As usual the Thai reporting both in the Thai media and local English media is shoddy to say the least. Short of that, I dont see anything else pointing in the direction of it not being a rape.

[Sheryl]

DNA does not prove rape....It only shows that the male has had sex with the girl. The subject of consent is another issue entirely.

could it be that she has cried rape because of whatever reason ?????

The physical findings in rape are quite unmistakable and there is no confusing it with consensual sex. Bruising, vaginal tears, etc.

The idea that a woman would put herself through the ordeal of reporting a rape -- in a foreign country no less -- is incredible. Yes, on rare occasions false accusations are made but these are invariably against someone the victim knew and had a grudge against (or a celebrity with money). I very much doubt that the person who wrote this post has the faintest idea of what a woman goes through in " crying rape". And I speak as a survivor of an attempted rape.

[jrincon17]

Very sad

But... What was she thinking by taking the ride in first place?

Maybe thinking she isnt going to get raped

[davethailand]

People seem to be forgetting in regards to did this guy really do it or not, unlike the Horton murder....this woman is still alive and, thus, she should be able to affirm he was the man who did it.

Did'nt she identify him in the nick?

Very sad

But... What was she thinking by taking the ride in first place?

Maybe thinking she isnt going to get raped

Obviously

[cdnvic]

Ironically the more the Thai government tries to curb the sex industry, the more rapes will occur. I don’t get it, this guy could not afford to find a lady? You can’t walk 100 meters without getting hit on there.

Have you been locked in a closet all your life? Rape has nothing to do with that. It's about power and dominance, not sex.

cv

[craigt3365]

Very sad

But... What was she thinking by taking the ride in first place?

Maybe thinking she isnt going to get raped

This is a horrible event. And yes, hindisight is great. But...why take a ride home, late at night, with ANY man while you are alone...let alone a young, motorcycle taxi driver...hanging around Walking Street! Happens quite frequently in New York City by cabbies there. Same all over the world. hel_l, I would be worried taking a motorcycle taxi ride home solo late at night there!

I just hope the police got the real guy and are not just making up evidence to impress the tourists.

[gburns57au]

They rode to Soi 17....where was the departure point in relation to Soi 17...not stated....How far did they have to travel to get the helmet? again not stated.

You assume he is an amateur...where is your prove of this ??? I would accept crime of opportunity...but please provide facts

Some girls like rough sex....genital damage is not always indicative of rape.

ID of suspect...James Anratti in the 60's in England was convicted and hung for a series of rapes and murders based on one survivors ID....after he died she admitted she picked him because he looked similar and she was bitter enough that someone must pay for what had happened to her, He was later proven to be innocent. I spent an hour with a girl who stole a car from me....I couldnt pick her from police photo boards 5 hours after the event.

the inference on her being a novice in Thailand came from a post here, I was just pointing out that there was no evidence based on the reports so far to support that.

Nope!!!...pretty damning that....but as we dont know the facts we cant make a definative comment like NOPE!!!!!....can we?

Well of course you cant see any other possibilty.....because you are not looking at the evidence thus far objectively....you have made your mind up and the guy is guilty.....

So she rode on the back of his bike to near his house without a helmet to pick up a helmet that she could wear to Walking Street.

She was on Tepprasit Road, so they went to Soi 17 on the Tepprasit Road his home to pick up a helmet to go to Walking Street. (Nothing wrong, now is there?)

He had told her where he lived or at least the general vicinity...and allegedly raped her in that area.....

He is an amateur and not a psychopath, you commit your crime in an area you feel safe in or know. That would be normal.

DNA does not prove rape....It only shows that the male has had sex with the girl. The subject of consent is another issue entirely.

Well since we are not privy to ALL the information, we would assume that as in any other rape case you would make use of a rape kit for examination and also examine the condition of not only the victim but also the genital area.

Now for the confession...as I said in the Samui thread....Sometimes faced with DNA evidence the person may confess...after all he probably has limited knowledge of the DNA system....look at this, this way....

Well there was a confession and an identification parade was there not? So guilt was not only admitted but he was also identified by the victim. What knowledge does he need?

So far I have yet to see supporting evidence presented in the reports. There is nothing to suggest she was a first time tourist based on the reports listed here.

What difference would it make if it was her first time in Pattaya or not? There is nothing that can be inferred.

Could I suggest it would be unlikely that a rapist would work so close to home and tell her where he lived....Could this be a case of mistaken but honest belief.....could it be that she has cried rape because of whatever reason ?????

Nope!

Rape is a violent crime not a crime of passion. As usual the Thai reporting both in the Thai media and local English media is shoddy to say the least. Short of that, I dont see anything else pointing in the direction of it not being a rape.

[cgigate]

Thai man flighted back for their woman!

[Boo]

Can people pls make sense when posting

[gburns57au]

The physical findings in rape are quite unmistakable and there is no confusing it with consensual sex. Bruising, vaginal tears, etc.

The idea that a woman would put herself through the ordeal of reporting a rape -- in a foreign country no less -- is incredible. Yes, on rare occasions false accusations are made but these are invariably against someone the victim knew and had a grudge against (or a celebrity with money). I very much doubt that the person who wrote this post has the faintest idea of what a woman goes through in " crying rape". And I speak as a survivor of an attempted rape.

Please excuse me again.....genital damage is not indicative of non consensual sex....the vaginal area is very sensative and subect to easy bruising and even tearing with consensual sex. This alone cannot prove that rape occurred. If rough but consensual sex took place then the vaginal damage would be similar.

Lets discuss celebrity here.....is it possible that after the Samui incident that this girl could think...."I could make a fortune from selling this story to magazines"....it is not a totally rejectable idea.

I have in my employment sat through many many rapes cases....many of them involving underage girls, where the charges are laid up to 20 or 30 years later....I think that at least gives me a better insight in to rape cases then most people would have.

You as a survivor of an attempted rape, as was my mother, I pulled her out of a gas oven at age 10 yo after the attack. I would think that you are somewhat prejudiced in this case and that you look at it from a biased side not an impartial side...and hey!!! I dont blame you for that....Rape is indeed an act of violence but first, it must be proved to be rape beyond all reasonable doubt.

[davethailand]

I wish you lot would read the bloody topic properly -

On Sunday morning, she accompanied Police to Dongtan Police sub-station where an identity parade was held consisting of five possible suspects. She picked out the arrested individual and suspected rapist named as Khun Pipatpong aged 19 from Nakhon Nayok Province. He confessed to the crime and on Sunday, a reconstruction of the crime took place at the area of wasteland inside Soi 17 which was located just behind the suspect’s apartment. He pointed to the location of the alleged assault and graphically described the attack to officers.

"I hope they got the right man"

[Boo]

from what I have read provided in the articles (which is the only source of information so far) , the girl claimed rape, the guy was id'd as the rapist, he has confessed & his DNA matches. What is there to debate? Are we not taking an attackers admission of guilt anymore as proof of an attack? There is nothing in any of the articles that suggest she was making it up & with a confession, DNA evidence & a positive ID, I think it's fair to give this poor girl some credit & ackinoledge that she was actually raped & give the police some credit for catching the guy.

looks like our posts crossed over dave!

[davethailand]

from what I have read provided in the articles (which is the only source of information so far) , the girl claimed rape, the guy was id'd as the rapist, he has confessed & his DNA matches. What is there to debate? Are we not taking an attackers admission of guilt anymore as proof of an attack? There is nothing in any of the articles that suggest she was making it up & with a confession, DNA evidence & a positive ID, I think it's fair to give this poor girl some credit & ackinoledge that she was actually raped & give the police some credit for catching the guy.

looks like our posts crossed over dave!

Agreed Boo.

[gburns57au]

from what I have read provided in the articles (which is the only source of information so far) , the girl claimed rape, the guy was id'd as the rapist, he has confessed & his DNA matches. What is there to debate? Are we not taking an attackers admission of guilt anymore as proof of an attack? There is nothing in any of the articles that suggest she was making it up & with a confession, DNA evidence & a positive ID, I think it's fair to give this poor girl some credit & ackinoledge that she was actually raped & give the police some credit for catching the guy.

looks like our posts crossed over dave!

On the face of it you are right...but there are discrepancies.....

the Samui guys were rushed to BKK for DNA testing...this guy was not....the facilities for DNA testing are a lot more conclusive than the facilities in Pattaya.

If I paraded 5 Thai guys of similar appearance in front of you while you were stressed, do you think that you could make a positive ID, without the appearance of definate markings....as I said I was asked to ID a girl from photo boards once 5 hours after talking to her...no chance. By the way she was of Asian extraction. I actually ID'd an aboriginal girl.

Now if the guy was told his DNA matches and it probably did....does this prove rape ??? no it only proves that he had sex with her, the issue of consent is not proved by DNA..

I supported the police with the Samui case and the DNA testing there.....this case is not as clear cut. There are discrepancies. By all means if he is proven to be guilty beyond ALL reasonable doubt then I will say no more.....I just think he needs a good defence lawyer and after Samui...there would be no shortage of them knocking on his cell door.

BTW...there is nothing to prove she is lying either. She could probably get a cool million for her story from the media considering recent events.

[jaapfries]

If you read the P.M's statement on the Catherine Horton murder, you will be left in no doubt that all he cared about was the effects the publicity would have on tourism, and he couldn't give a hoot about the suffering and distress of those involved. For the country's leader to demand the death penalty before the trial had even taken place was a travesty of any kind of justice. I followed the case carefully in the UK press and on BBC radio, including many phone ins - and no one was impressed with the P.M.'s statements or with the swiftness of the trial. Ok these 2 guys probably did it - but who can really know in a justice system where tortured confessions are common place and intereference with forensic and other eveidence are par for the course. It wouldn't surprise me if the families of the accused are in for a little windfall as part of the deal. I'm not sure the Brits want retribution in this way. The speed of the trial was almost obscene considering the usual slow march of court proceedings here, which can sometimes take years to reach a conclusion - witness the cops let off in the recent the Somchai murder case. Of course it's all very tragic and all my sympathies go to the poor young woman who was raped in Pattaya - but as a matter of interest, I wonder how many rapes and even murders happen in other parts of the tourist world - Florida? Spain? Carribean? Malaysia, etc etc. Any stats on this? Is Thailand that bad? Is it any worse than Blackpool even? I'd be interested to know. Your 'average' ordinary guy in Thailand ( if there is such a thing) is no worse than your average guy any where in the world, and a bloody site better than many. It's the venal fat cats at the top of the pile that make life so wretched for so many, and if Thailand has a bad reputaion, then look no further for the cause.

==============================================================

Well; Mobi D'Ark; there's no way that I could even begin to be as eloquent as you were on this subject !

I totally and full-heartedly agree, verbatum, with what you put forward !

Wish more people would get the 'overall' picture and see through the infantile rhetoric of those who pose as "The Leadership" in this otherwise wondefull Kingdom !

It is going to be very interesting to see how things develop on the "" initiative: my bet is, that if they're serious about this, it will become very lonely at Government House soon . . . . . . . . .

[meom]

British woman raped on holiday in Thai resort

The 28-year-old woman from Liverpool had been holidaying in the Thai resort of Pattaya, 100 miles east of Bangkok, and had been at a party in the beach resort with friends.

Nice friends . Where I come from friends go out together, friends go home together.

[Backpack_thailand]

Yeah, they're really taking care of tourists, we have a new hub, the rape and murder hub of south east asia

Sad but true! It's getting to be an almost daily occurance lately...

[Boo]

maybe this girl has a better memory for faces than you gburns, esp. as the person had violated her but still, dna proof, the confession & re-enactment of the crime. For me that is conculsive. As for your claims of getting a million pounds out of selling her story, how do you come up with that when you don't even know this girl or met her face to face? I am only judging from the facts given not wild specualtion.

Both people involved have said it was rape, what else is there to know? I doubt the guy would put his hands up to rape if he thought it was consensual, even if it got out of hand. Unless he is a moron that is?

[Dradam]

Many people assume that legalizing or allowing prostitution leads to a decrease in rapes. This asinine assumption has no basis in fact. Just because sex can be purchased doesn't reduce the frequency of forced sex with an unwilling participant. Prostitutes are themselves frequently the victims of rape and will very rarely report such an incident (realizing that police will not press for a conviction in these cases).

In a 1986 UCLA survey, over 50% of men said they would force a women to have sex with them if they knew they would not be caught. With the rise of the internet and the increased availability of pornography (specifically graphic depictions of rape) I would expect this number to be the same now if not higher.

So what is it that can decrease the number of rapes? Obviously, men must have a fear of being caught. It is not just sexual desire that leads to rape. It is power and conquest. These feelings will not be satisfied through a willing prostitute. Prostitution lacks the feeling of conquest. If anything, prostitution increases rape as it decreases the value placed on morality in a community. If anything, open acceptance of prostitution would lead to a lessening in the value of chastity in men and women.

I am appalled by the number of rapes that are depicted on Thai TV shows during prime viewing times. It seems as if in every Thai TV series, the leading actress and most of the supporting actresses frequently become the victims of rape. My wife feels that rape is a normal part of Thai society. Many of her cousins, friends, etc. are victims of rape and most do not report it as they feel the Thai police do not prosecute these crimes.

Rape is a crime that has devastating effects on both the individual and the family and community.

It must be treated severely and with no degree of acceptance. The standard of proof to administer a severe punishment must also be understandably high. This unfortunately, makes it difficult to convict in many cases when it comes to a case of one testimony vs another. I would advocate that the Thai government provide a strong campaign against rape by educating the people in the community of what to do before, during, or after a rape in order to either prevent its occurrence or aid in the prosecution.

[davethailand]

British woman raped on holiday in Thai resort

The 28-year-old woman from Liverpool had been holidaying in the Thai resort of Pattaya, 100 miles east of Bangkok, and had been at a party in the beach resort with friends.

Nice friends . Where I come from friends go out together, friends go home together.

You can't blame the friends for what happened, there could be several reasons why they were'nt together.

[davethailand]

from what I have read provided in the articles (which is the only source of information so far) , the girl claimed rape, the guy was id'd as the rapist, he has confessed & his DNA matches. What is there to debate? Are we not taking an attackers admission of guilt anymore as proof of an attack? There is nothing in any of the articles that suggest she was making it up & with a confession, DNA evidence & a positive ID, I think it's fair to give this poor girl some credit & ackinoledge that she was actually raped & give the police some credit for catching the guy.

looks like our posts crossed over dave!

On the face of it you are right...but there are discrepancies.....

the Samui guys were rushed to BKK for DNA testing...this guy was not....the facilities for DNA testing are a lot more conclusive than the facilities in Pattaya.

If I paraded 5 Thai guys of similar appearance in front of you while you were stressed, do you think that you could make a positive ID, without the appearance of definate markings....as I said I was asked to ID a girl from photo boards once 5 hours after talking to her...no chance. By the way she was of Asian extraction. I actually ID'd an aboriginal girl.

Now if the guy was told his DNA matches and it probably did....does this prove rape ??? no it only proves that he had sex with her, the issue of consent is not proved by DNA..

I supported the police with the Samui case and the DNA testing there.....this case is not as clear cut. There are discrepancies. By all means if he is proven to be guilty beyond ALL reasonable doubt then I will say no more.....I just think he needs a good defence lawyer and after Samui...there would be no shortage of them knocking on his cell door.

BTW...there is nothing to prove she is lying either. She could probably get a cool million for her story from the media considering recent events.

But after she picked him out on the parade he admitted it.

He confessed to the crime and on Sunday, a reconstruction of the crime took place at the area of wasteland inside Soi 17 which was located just behind the suspect’s apartment. He pointed to the location of the alleged assault and graphically described the attack to officers.

Edited January 16, 2006 by davethailand

[retirednavyman]

it's not necessarily her fault,but didn't your mother teach you to never accept rides from strangers?

[davethailand]

it's not necessarily her fault,but didn't your mother teach you to never accept rides from strangers?

Yes

I'd like to know where she was in Trepprasit Rd, I've lived in this area for 4 years now and she was raped close to my home (near the harley bar).

This area is'nt a touristy nightlife area although there are lots and lots of farangs in the area but I don't understand where she could have been playing this game

[KhunFon]

There will always be differences in treatment:

read and look at the pictures in:

Thai PM: Human rights lawyer dead

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/01/1...reut/index.html

Trial opens in UK tourist killing

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/01/1...d.ap/index.html

In both trials everthing will be done, believe me.

[WISteve]

Thank you Sheryl for adding some sense to this.

Anyone who wishes to assign any portion of the blame for this crime to the victim has rocks in his head. And I sincerely hope you never experience the trauma of this crime in your own lives.

It would appear that guilt is not debateable in any reasonable mind at this point.

--The victim reported it promptly.

--The victim I D'd the criminal in a line-up the following day. It is irrelavent if YOU couldn't do that same thing in the past. SHE DID.

--Subsequent to the ID, the perp confessed to the crime.

--They also have some physical evident (i.e. genetic material) that they could also use in the trial.

Rape is all about power and control.

It has nothing to do with prostitution or sexual desire.

There is nothing in this world that the victim could ever do to deserve being assaulted.

Once you learn that you might have a chance to do something to prevent the next one.

Until you learn that, consider yourself to be part of the problem, not the solution.

Making excuses for the perp is disgusting IMO.

~WISteve

[meom]

British woman raped on holiday in Thai resort

The 28-year-old woman from Liverpool had been holidaying in the Thai resort of Pattaya, 100 miles east of Bangkok, and had been at a party in the beach resort with friends.

Nice friends . Where I come from friends go out together, friends go home together.

You can't blame the friends for what happened, there could be several reasons why they were'nt together.

You're probably right Dave and I suppose her friends feel sorry now that they let her go home alone.

Unfortunately sorry always comes too late

[meom]

Anyone who wishes to assign any portion of the blame for this crime to the victim has rocks in his head. And I sincerely hope you never experience the trauma of this crime in your own lives.

It would appear that guilt is not debateable in any reasonable mind at this point.

~WISteve

I don't know Steve but it seems to me that not everybody has the same idea about guilt and blame.

For example a crocodile can be guilty of biting your arm off but can you blame the crocodile for something that he's supposed to do?

Slightly off topic I know.

[hm1973]

I have been closely following this case and it appears the international press have "sexed-up" the story. My detailed report was taken straight off the actual Police report.

1. There was no DNA evidence

2. There was no Bangkok Police involved apart from the sub-commander of Thailands Tourist Police Division who happens to be based in Bangkok who came down to see what was going on.

3. I sold the story to every source quoted in this thread and sent them exactly the same details as shown in the PCN article, so why did they get it wrong??

It's a wierd business.

[caledonia]

Anyone who wishes to assign any portion of the blame for this crime to the victim has rocks in his head. And I sincerely hope you never experience the trauma of this crime in your own lives.

It would appear that guilt is not debateable in any reasonable mind at this point.

~WISteve

I don't know Steve but it seems to me that not everybody has the same idea about guilt and blame.

For example a crocodile can be guilty of biting your arm off but can you blame the crocodile for something that he's supposed to do?

Slightly off topic I know.

You might want to expand on your crocodile anology there because right now it seems you are implying the guy did what comes naturally - oh right so I guess this is all her fault!!

WISteve you were spot on!