Ukba Needs To Kick Out A Few People, Might This Make It Harder To Get A Visa For Our Loved Ones?

[beano2274]

Have a read of this article on the BBC website

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18945047

Seems that 275,000 are illegally in the UK now, if they bring in new enforcements to stop this will it get harder for our loved ones to travel to or with us to the UK?

[transam]

I read the story, the 275000 are migrants, not immigrants that have been told to leave cos their job or studies are completed but seems they don't want to leave and the UK hasn't the man power to find them and help them on their way. They don't get charged the 500 bht a day so why go.

[beano2274]

They probably still pick up the cheque from the Social as well.

[bangkockney]

They probably still pick up the cheque from the Social as well.

Get a grip, you're boring.

[bangkockney]

I read the story, the 275000 are migrants, not immigrants that have been told to leave cos their job or studies are completed but seems they don't want to leave and the UK hasn't the man power to find them and help them on their way. They don't get charged the 500 bht a day so why go.

Hardly a working deterrent in Thailand now is it?

[7by7]

Although most of the people in the article are technically overstayers and so in the UK illegally, they have, somewhat, had an effect on family migration.

The majority of British citizens, of all ethnicities, feel that too many immigrants are entering the UK. They don't differentiate between overstayers, legal immigrants such as family members and others.

The government wants to be seen to be doing something about this.

They have neither the will nor the manpower to chase down overstayers and other illegals.

So they tinker with the immigration rules and come up with things like the changes to the family migration rules which came into force on 9th July. This will have a very minor effect on the total numbers coming to the UK, but is seen by the population as a whole to be 'doing something.'

Therefore, the simple answer to the OP's question is; 'Yes, it has already done so.'

I cannot for the life of me understand why the government does not reintroduce passport checks on leaving the UK. This may catch a few overstayers and discourage more. Fines from those caught would fund it.

People who are in the UK illegally and hiding from the authorities cannot claim benefits; they'd be caught and removed if they tried!

[transam]

I read on Yahoo news that 32000 ''migrants'' were claiming benefits, suppose those who have not yet received their marching orders eh. BUT, how are these ''lost'' souls funding their UK existence , must be some how, hmmmmmm, another story eh.

Edited July 23, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post removed.

[Eff1n2ret]

The question isn't really "will the failure to remove Illegals/Overstayers and Failed Asylum Seekers make it more difficult for genuine applicants to get visas?" - it already has! The abject failure of UKBA and its predecessors to get to grips with the problems of removing these people has built up over many years, and the response of the Home Office and politicians of both colours who want to appear to be getting tough on immigration is to raise the barriers to entry even higher, picking an easy target and ignoring the more difficult one.

Unfortunately in the eyes of much of the poor of the Third World, the UK is perceived as a destination where once you have arrived you have a strong chance of hanging on and being able to carve out a new life, sending money back to your family or even maybe bringing them in as well. This perception is actively fostered by people-smugglers in many parts of the world, although the reality for some who sell their assets to get to England is a life of near-slavery in which they become trapped.

The principal problems that the Home Office seem unable to face up to (based on my former 20 years as an Immigration Officer, much of it in enforcement) are three-fold:- a) a legal profession, largely funded by the taxpayer, eagerly exploiting asylum and human rights legislation to inundate a caseworking system ill-equipped to deal with the load, along with a judiciary who seem long ago to have abandoned any concept of what is good for the country as a whole, setting the "rights" of the most undeserving individuals over those of the rest of us - b, associated with a), a willingness to consider further applications from individuals whose cases have already been decided, thus further overloading the system; this in spite of introducing "One-Stop" appeal legislation a dozen years ago. The judges' willingness to give everyone as many bites of the cherry as they like has totally eclipsed all attempts at orderly and timely casework - c) a refusal by many countries to accept their nationals back without a travel document, and then a refusal to issue one because the person's identity can not be verified. Of course it can't, they are told when they're put in the back of the lorry to conceal their true identity!

This last problem, documentation, has continually been swept under the carpet because to deal with it would require a combined effort at negotiating with such countries by the Home Office and the Foreign Office, but it never happens because the latter don't like to bring up a subject which would cast a shadow over trade negotiations or whatever. But the importance of this matter should not be underestimated - I reckon that the team I worked with could have filled a plane some months with the people we caught if this problem did not exist. But, of course, we had to give most of them "Temporary release" and "Reporting" because there was nothing else we could do with them and we couldn't detain them. I perhaps should add that Thailand is an honourable exception from such offending countries; they never make a fuss about taking their nationals back, simply on a one-sheet identity document issued by the Immigration Office which caught them. For that reason I have thought for some time that Thailand and a few other countries should be cut some slack, on issuing visit visas at least.

But even countries like Australia, which has a much more robust attitude towards dealing with illegals, seem to have a problem, according to recent news items I've seen on the telly. Their response seem to be much the same as UKBA, which is to keep potential problems as far away as possible, which takes us back to the prospect of ever-stricter controls.

[7by7]

I read on Yahoo news that 32000 ''migrants'' were claiming benefits, suppose those who have not yet received their marching orders eh. BUT, how are these ''lost'' souls funding their UK existence , must be some how, hmmmmmm, another story eh.

How does Yahoo news define migrants?

Many migrants who are in the UK legally can legitimately claim some benefits. Once they have ILR they can claim all benefits to which they are entitled.

Even some who are illegal but waiting for their case to be dealt with can claim something.

Those hiding from the authorities obviously cannot.

How do they fund their existence? I refer you to Eff1n2ret's excellent post above.

[beano2274]

They probably still pick up the cheque from the Social as well.

Get a grip, you're boring.

Can't be boring if you commented, and read it.

[tw25rw]

I read on Yahoo news that 32000 ''migrants'' were claiming benefits, suppose those who have not yet received their marching orders eh. BUT, how are these ''lost'' souls funding their UK existence , must be some how, hmmmmmm, another story eh.

Cash in hand work. I know a Mexican girl who works as a live in nanny in London who overstayed on a tourist visa years ago and doesn't want to go home because she has a French boyfriend (who was my housemate). There will be plenty of others doing similar.

There was a thing in the news recently about the large number of Indians who are living rough or in shacks in people's back gardens and who do cash work when they can get it. A lot destroyed their papers to make it harder to deport them and are now stuck whether they want to be here or not.

275000 sounds a lot, but a city like London will absorb them.

Coincidentally, I was in Bluewater the other day and saw a team of UKBA officers raid a Mexican restaurant. Didn't stay to see if they got who they wanted, but the looked to be searching for someone in particular.

Edited July 23, 2012 by tw25rw

[transam]

Or many eh. The employers of these folk should face huge fines. They employ them cos they work for peanuts and do genuine folk out of jobs.

Edited July 23, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post removed.

[7by7]

Since February 2008 UK employers are obliged by law to check that all their employees are legally entitled to work in the UK. Usually by checking the applicant's passport/visa or, if the potential employee is British and does not have a passport, their birth certificate or similar.

Employers who do not carry out this check, or who knowingly employ illegal workers, are liable to fines of up to £10,000 for each illegal worker they employ.

[transam]

But it doesn't work like that. Employers of these folk take the risks cos of the reward and the chances of prosecution are near nil. Been there and seen it. Risks are small.

Like LOS, laws are there but........................

Edited July 23, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post removed; again. Please do not quote a post unless you are replying to a specific point in an earlier post and there are other posts after it; use the reply box instead.

[7by7]

Illegal immigrants caught at Coventry restaurant

Businesses named and shamed over illegal worker fines

Just two from 4 million plus results after putting "UK fine for employing illegal workers" into Google.

But as the topic of this thread shows; although they are doing something, they are not doing enough.

As you obviously feel strongly about illegal working, and appear to know where it is happening, Report immigration crime or smuggling may be of interest to you.

[transam]

Not really, seen who are involved, how deep it goes, and the powers that be don't give a hoot. Even reducing immigration staff numbers to fund, eeeeeeeeeer, you guest it.

Edited July 23, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post removed; again. Please do not quote a post unless you are replying to a specific point in an earlier post and there are other posts after it; use the reply box instead.

[bobrussell]

But it doesn't work like that. Employers of these folk take the risks cos of the reward and the chances of prosecution are near nil. Been there and seen it. Risks are small.

Like LOS, laws are there but........................

The risks are not that small!! The UKBA target high risk situations, take-aways, car washes, laundries, factories etc. A fine of £10,000 per person will take the shine off any economies made by employing cheap labour.

Guilty employers will be straight onto a high risk list. The only way to stop illegal working is to make it too risky for employers. Once illegal working comes under control the individuals have to reappear on the radar.

If a country does not want them back it is unlikely they will provide replacement papers in a hurry. I understand China takes up to a year!

Edited July 23, 2012 by bobrussell

[transam]

We know all that but it is rampant in UK cos they think noooooo problem. If what you say is gospel then why is drug supply in UK still going on when folk know the risks. ? I know a Thai lady that works illegally in UK for a biggish company, so pleeeeeeease don't tell me it doesn't happen, or folk fear anything cos they don't. Uk is a soft touch to be caught doing anything.

Edited July 23, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post removed; again. Please do not quote a post unless you are replying to a specific point in an earlier post and there are other posts after it; use the reply box instead.

[7by7]

Transam, I find your attitude incomprehensible.

On the one hand you criticise the UKBA and government for doing nothing about illegal workers; yet on the other you say you know where it is going on and, despite being told where to anonymously report it, say you wont do anything!

If you know of a crime and fail to report it, then you are part of the problem!

And don't come back and say that you fear the consequences to yourself; as said, you can report it anonymously.

Drug crime is a different matter, and far bigger problem, than illegal working. The rewards are far greater than those for employing illegal workers and it is usually only those at the bottom of the pile that take the risk and get caught. But even so, if you have information which will help the fight against this vile trade then you are, in my opinion, duty bound to pass that information on.

You can do this anonymously, too.

[RAZZELL]

Agree with Eff1n2ret

Successive Governments have to be seen to be doing "something"

Legitimate applicants who are students/gf's/wives/children/ families get penalised. The new rules are a bad joke.

RAZZ

[transam]

Transam, I find your attitude incomprehensible.

On the one hand you criticise the UKBA and government for doing nothing about illegal workers; yet on the other you say you know where it is going on and, despite being told where to anonymously report it, say you wont do anything!

If you know of a crime and fail to report it, then you are part of the problem!

And don't come back and say that you fear the consequences to yourself; as said, you can report it anonymously.

Drug crime is a different matter, and far bigger problem, than illegal working. The rewards are far greater than those for employing illegal workers and it is usually only those at the bottom of the pile that take the risk and get caught. But even so, if you have information which will help the fight against this vile trade then you are, in my opinion, duty bound to pass that information on.

You can do this anonymously, too.

You can think what you like but l am not a grass.

There is a reducing number of immigration staff to save cash yet the UK is sending more cash out the country and keeping non natives, as well as finding cash to fight other peoples wars.

Today l read in yahoo news that 60,000 migrant uni students are bogus, and are likely working illegally doing natives out of work. WHO IS LETTING THEM IN ?

So you want us ''all'' to put on our Sherlock Holmes gear and weed them out eh.

[theoldgit]

It is very difficult to remove people from the UK as there are so many people interfering with the process, and pulling the rug from under the Immigration Officers who are doing a difficult and thankless task whilst being the subject of a pay freeze, an assault on their pensions and the prospect of job cuts.

It's already been pointed out the difficulties that Enforcement Officers face, many of them now have to pick off the easy targets to meet their increasingly unrealistic targets, whilst having their hours and shifts cut so, quite often they can only work during the core day.

The police often arrest suspected Immigration Offenders, but more often than not they are simply bailed because there are no Immigration Officers available to deal with them, these people disappear into the woodwork.

There are a number of Immigration Removal Centres spread throughout England and Scotland, and you don't want to know how much they cost the taxpayer annually. David Blunkett actually changed the name from Detention Centres to give a clear message that people detained are actually going to be removed, unfortunately this message hasn't sunk in.

Immigration Officers put a lot of work into arranging for an offender to be removed only to have their efforts scuppered at the last minute by the Judiciary, MP's, lawyers with their own agenda and misguided NGO's, to name but a few.

[bangkockney]

Transam, I find your attitude incomprehensible.

On the one hand you criticise the UKBA and government for doing nothing about illegal workers; yet on the other you say you know where it is going on and, despite being told where to anonymously report it, say you wont do anything!

If you know of a crime and fail to report it, then you are part of the problem!

And don't come back and say that you fear the consequences to yourself; as said, you can report it anonymously.

Drug crime is a different matter, and far bigger problem, than illegal working. The rewards are far greater than those for employing illegal workers and it is usually only those at the bottom of the pile that take the risk and get caught. But even so, if you have information which will help the fight against this vile trade then you are, in my opinion, duty bound to pass that information on.

You can do this anonymously, too.

You can think what you like but l am not a grass.

There is a reducing number of immigration staff to save cash yet the UK is sending more cash out the country and keeping non natives, as well as finding cash to fight other peoples wars.

Today l read in yahoo news that 60,000 migrant uni students are bogus, and are likely working illegally doing natives out of work. WHO IS LETTING THEM IN ?

So you want us ''all'' to put on our Sherlock Holmes gear and weed them out eh.

What you should do is read the Migration Watch report, note all the inconsistencies, errors of fact and use of language, and seperate the wheat from the chaff.

MW is so right-wing and IMO dangerous. They're perfectly good at destroying their own credibility yet they have a strong lobbying voice. It's mind boggling.

[bangkockney]

It is very difficult to remove people from the UK as there are so many people interfering with the process, and pulling the rug from under the Immigration Officers who are doing a difficult and thankless task whilst being the subject of a pay freeze, an assault on their pensions and the prospect of job cuts.

It's already been pointed out the difficulties that Enforcement Officers face, many of them now have to pick off the easy targets to meet their increasingly unrealistic targets, whilst having their hours and shifts cut so, quite often they can only work during the core day.

The police often arrest suspected Immigration Offenders, but more often than not they are simply bailed because there are no Immigration Officers available to deal with them, these people disappear into the woodwork.

There are a number of Immigration Removal Centres spread throughout England and Scotland, and you don't want to know how much they cost the taxpayer annually. David Blunkett actually changed the name from Detention Centres to give a clear message that people detained are actually going to be removed, unfortunately this message hasn't sunk in.

Immigration Officers put a lot of work into arranging for an offender to be removed only to have their efforts scuppered at the last minute by the Judiciary, MP's, lawyers with their own agenda and misguided NGO's, to name but a few.

I agree with most of this but feel it is far too general and doesn't scrutinise the work of the UKBA / enforcement teams enough.

There are people dying during forced removals, people being removed who shouldn't be under law, and children being kept in detention centres indefinitely and without assesment, again in breach of law.

The work of NGOs is vital in this respect.

[bangkockney]

They probably still pick up the cheque from the Social as well.

Get a grip, you're boring.

Can't be boring if you commented, and read it.

How drole and predictable. That's all you have to say?

You should have used the time to learn something rather than continue in ignorance.

[MaprangHolmes]

MORE than 63,000 bogus students could have flooded into Britain last year, it is claimed today.

A new report blasts ministers for “bottling out” of tough measures needed to halt the influx.

Campaign group Migration Watch said a Home Office study had exposed the scale of abuse.

Officials quizzed hundreds of students to see if current checks were detecting bogus students.

They discovered up to six out of ten applicants from some countries would have been rejected.

Migration Watch calculated that 63,069 bogus students could have come to Britain last year alone.

Chairman Sir Andrew Green said: “We now have clear evidence of abuse on a major scale.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4446558/UK-hit-by-63k-fake-students-last-year.html

[Basil B]

I would presume it must be like a pressure cooker within the UKBA with all the cut backs, I think that was proved with the last round of redundancies where over 1,000 more than intended went.

Fining the employers must have some effect, one thing seems to be obvious if you are employing some one who has no NI number he and the employer is not paying tax and NI, so it is probable if an employer is paying an illegal it would not be going though the books, so there is undeclared income, about time when such businesses are found they should be hit with VAT and Tax inspections.

It is not the number of illegal immigrant in the UK that is hurting us but the number of people and businesses evading paying their fair share of taxes, this is not just illegals, or even those of ethnic origins, but it is easier for those who form their own close knit communities to do so, I get it frequently when I am engaged to do work for someone they try to renegotiate the price of the job by saying, "any cheaper for cash, i do not need a receipt" when a landlord say this it is obvious he must be cooking his books.

May be it is time to hit those who provide accommodation to illegals too.

[beano2274]

They probably still pick up the cheque from the Social as well.

Get a grip, you're boring.

Can't be boring if you commented, and read it.

How drole and predictable. That's all you have to say?

You should have used the time to learn something rather than continue in ignorance.

At least people have liked my posts on this topic.

The UKBA needs to have more authority and be able to kick those out who do not have the right visas and do it immediately, and comments about kids being in detention centres is such a pity, if their parents had the correct paperwork they would not be there, so blame the parents not the people who stick them there.

[beano2274]

The student thing was prevalent about 4 years ago, a lot of so called language centres were closed or looked into, I seem to remember the Panaroma program actually going undercover to discover these places.

[Basil B]

The UKBA needs to have more authority and be able to kick those out who do not have the right visas and do it immediately, and comments about kids being in detention centres is such a pity, if their parents had the correct paperwork they would not be there, so blame the parents not the people who stick them there.

Where can they send them back too? when they have shredded their passports and countries like China deliberately delay the process of supplying replacement documents.