Jatuporn Sticks By His Allegations Against Abhisit

[Moruya]

hang him.

Yes. But naked, from his ankles, outside Central World. Rotten eggs 1b per dozen

Sorry, but i have to ask: Hang who?

Jatuporn the hideous

[OzMick]

As for Abhisit allegedly evading military conscription, Jatuporn said: "A prime minister should be an example in terms of serving the nation. Not serving as a military conscript is unpatriotic."

Jatuporn also told the court that Abhisit's alleged decision to use false documents also went against the standards expected of someone who is to become a prime minister.

"As prime minister, one must be honourable and be a good example for Thais. The prime minister must have a higher standard," he said.

Two questions here

1.) Did any of the previous PMs serve as 'military conscript' ?

2.) Did k. Jatuporn consult k. Thaksin before saying "The prime minister must have a higher standard" ?

1. One cannot be a conscript if one volunteers for for service. Former PM Thaksin went to the Armed Forces School and then to the Police Academy and upon graduation joined the RTP. Mr. Thaksin also went to the same university as PM Yingluck (Eastern Kentucky) and Mr. Thaksin also earned a doctorate from a University in Texas. An interesting difference between Thaksin and Abhisit is that Mr. Thaksin was able to volunteer for his national service while Mr. Abhisit did not. I think that you will find many of the former PMs spent time in the military because they volunteered. As such, the attempt to raise their not being conscripted is a canard. Nothing stopped Mr. Abhisit from volunteering for service.

2. I doubt Mr. Jatuporn consulted with Mr. Thaksin. Unlike you, I believe that Mr. Jatuporn is not that close to Mr. Thaksin. It is a convenient alliance and if conditions were right Mr. Jatuporn would kick Mr. Thaksin to the curb. Mr. Jatuporn really does believe in his political position and I think he is so consumed by that belief that he sees himself as a martyr to the cause. It's that martyr complex which makes him unmanageable by the political class, including Mr. Thaksin.

I am a little confused about your statements.

1/ Abhisit applied for a job at the military college which equated to military service. Are you saying that was an involuntary action?

2/ Jatuporn and Thaksin are not close, and Jatuporn wishes to be disassociated further? Until recently Jatuporn was a party list MP of PTP despite being ineligible for election and facing serious criminal charges, and he has become a baht millionaire while working as a "political activist". It would seem both those positions were due to Thaksin's benevolence. Would you add "ingrate" to his other qualities?

[ramrod711]

I don't doubt your veracity GK, if you say they attended and graduated it's good enough for me. My question is how!, I assume you have heard both of them mangle the english language.

[GiHadOrange]

Until recently Jatuporn was a party list MP of PTP despite being ineligible for election and facing serious criminal charges, and he has become a baht millionaire while working as a "political activist". It would seem both those positions were due to Thaksin's benevolence. Would you add "ingrate" to his other qualities?

Here is a list of cases against Jatuporn. Don't know if its complete.

Cases against red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan, and where the cases are now

- Terrorism case: Jatuporn granted bail. (Currently being probed by the Department of Special Investigation.)

- Libel case: Jatuporn in 2009 gave a press interview accusing then prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva of inappropriate conduct during an audience with the King. The Criminal Court on July 10 found Jatuporn guilty of libel and handed down a six-month jail term suspended for two years due to it being his first offence.

- Libel case: Jatuporn in 2009 made an accusation against Abhisit in relation to an attack on Abhisit's vehicle at the Interior Ministry and Abhisit's involvement in the dispersal of red-shirt protesters in 2009. (Currently in the court-hearing process.)

- Libel case: At a rally, Jatuporn accused Abhisit of seizing His Majesty the King's power and of involvement in chaos at the Din Daeng Triangle, Petchaburi Road and in Pattaya. (Currently in the court-hearing process.)

- Libel case: Jatuporn accused Abhisit of ordering the killings of people and of evading conscription. (Currently in the court-hearing process.)

- Libel case: Jatuporn read a court verdict on his TV programme allegedly causing viewers to misunderstand that Teepsurang Pukditanakul, the wife of Constitution Court judge Jaran, is a bad person. (Currently in the court-hearing process.)

-- The Nation 2012-07-24

[MaiChai]

Since there is no evidence to backup Jatuporn, he will loose the case. Because of previous convictions of slander, he should go to jail. Let's hope the court does the right thing.

[Buchholz]

Thaksin also went to the same university as PM Yingluck (Eastern Kentucky)

Minor correction, but while Lieutenant-Colonel Thaksin did attend Eastern Kentucky University, which is, coincidentally, the home of the Colonel:

and their lovely mascot:

http://people.eku.ed.../activities.php

Yingluck did not.

She attended the Kentucky State University, which is, poignantly befitting of her pedigree, the home of the Thoroughbreds.

Or as they spell it out in the hicks...

Edited July 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[OZEMADE]

As for Abhisit allegedly evading military conscription, Jatuporn said: "A prime minister should be an example in terms of serving the nation. Not serving as a military conscript is unpatriotic."

Jatuporn also told the court that Abhisit's alleged decision to use false documents also went against the standards expected of someone who is to become a prime minister.

"As prime minister, one must be honourable and be a good example for Thais. The prime minister must have a higher standard," he said.

Two questions here

1.) Did any of the previous PMs serve as 'military conscript' ?

2.) Did k. Jatuporn consult k. Thaksin before saying "The prime minister must have a higher standard" ?

Is there a point to question 1. maby yes maby no. Whats the point.

As far as Q2 goes, yes a PM should have higher standards and yes Jatuporn is entitled to his own opinion as you are. Do you consult anyone before you say or write anything, I doubt it.

[rubl]

As for Abhisit allegedly evading military conscription, Jatuporn said: "A prime minister should be an example in terms of serving the nation. Not serving as a military conscript is unpatriotic."

Jatuporn also told the court that Abhisit's alleged decision to use false documents also went against the standards expected of someone who is to become a prime minister.

"As prime minister, one must be honourable and be a good example for Thais. The prime minister must have a higher standard," he said.

Two questions here

1.) Did any of the previous PMs serve as 'military conscript' ?

2.) Did k. Jatuporn consult k. Thaksin before saying "The prime minister must have a higher standard" ?

Is there a point to question 1. maby yes maby no. Whats the point.

As far as Q2 goes, yes a PM should have higher standards and yes Jatuporn is entitled to his own opinion as you are. Do you consult anyone before you say or write anything, I doubt it.

As for 1.) k. Jatuporn indicated "a PM should be an example in terms of serving the nation. Not serving as a military conscript is unpatriotic" As k. Jatuporn was accusing k. Abhisit, I'm simply wondering which of the former PMs did serve as 'military conscript'. That's the point.

As for 2.) I was simply surprised that k. Jatuporn mentioned the 'held to higher standards' as that may seem to be ungratefull towards his former hero k. Thaksin who was sentenced to two years jail a.o. because the court tried to hold him (i.e. ex-PM Thaksin) to higher standards. It may be his opinin, but in context with accusing k. Abhisit it may emphasize the possible slander.

What I think or write doesn't effect or try to slander living persons either in Thailand or abroad. My opinion as farang doesn't really matter here in Thailand. That doesn't stop me, neither does it stop my esteemed fellow posters, or even you

[brianb1944]

Abhisit's defamation lawsuit gives Jatuporn a stage.

Probably a good ploy, the more exposure given to his ranting, the more opportunity he has to prove to the public what a dangerously deluded loose cannon he really is.

[GiHadOrange]

Abhisit's defamation lawsuit gives Jatuporn a stage.

Probably a good ploy, the more exposure given to his ranting, the more opportunity he has to prove to the public what a dangerously deluded loose cannon he really is.

Abhisit is quite concerned about that media outlets could become or allready act as 'the mouthpiece of Jatuporn' and so is the intention of that defamation lawsuit to prevent any opportunities that he could prove to the public "what a dangerously deluded loose cannon he really is."

[gl555]

It's Jatuporn. The moron has all kinds of unsubstantiated allegations and lies when he opens his big fat mouth. The only people stupid enough to believe his crap wear red. Everyone else who has even a peanut of a brain know otherwise.

[geriatrickid]

As for Abhisit allegedly evading military conscription, Jatuporn said: "A prime minister should be an example in terms of serving the nation. Not serving as a military conscript is unpatriotic."

Jatuporn also told the court that Abhisit's alleged decision to use false documents also went against the standards expected of someone who is to become a prime minister.

"As prime minister, one must be honourable and be a good example for Thais. The prime minister must have a higher standard," he said.

Two questions here

1.) Did any of the previous PMs serve as 'military conscript' ?

2.) Did k. Jatuporn consult k. Thaksin before saying "The prime minister must have a higher standard" ?

1. One cannot be a conscript if one volunteers for for service. Former PM Thaksin went to the Armed Forces School and then to the Police Academy and upon graduation joined the RTP. Mr. Thaksin also went to the same university as PM Yingluck (Eastern Kentucky) and Mr. Thaksin also earned a doctorate from a University in Texas. An interesting difference between Thaksin and Abhisit is that Mr. Thaksin was able to volunteer for his national service while Mr. Abhisit did not. I think that you will find many of the former PMs spent time in the military because they volunteered. As such, the attempt to raise their not being conscripted is a canard. Nothing stopped Mr. Abhisit from volunteering for service.

2. I doubt Mr. Jatuporn consulted with Mr. Thaksin. Unlike you, I believe that Mr. Jatuporn is not that close to Mr. Thaksin. It is a convenient alliance and if conditions were right Mr. Jatuporn would kick Mr. Thaksin to the curb. Mr. Jatuporn really does believe in his political position and I think he is so consumed by that belief that he sees himself as a martyr to the cause. It's that martyr complex which makes him unmanageable by the political class, including Mr. Thaksin.

I am a little confused about your statements.

1/ Abhisit applied for a job at the military college which equated to military service. Are you saying that was an involuntary action?

2/ Jatuporn and Thaksin are not close, and Jatuporn wishes to be disassociated further? Until recently Jatuporn was a party list MP of PTP despite being ineligible for election and facing serious criminal charges, and he has become a baht millionaire while working as a "political activist". It would seem both those positions were due to Thaksin's benevolence. Would you add "ingrate" to his other qualities?

Defeated PM Abhisit's short sojourn as an instructor at the military academy came two years after his obligation to report for conscription arose. Mr. Abhisit "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987. Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription occurred when he reached the age of 21 in 1985.

A side issue is that in 1985, Mr. Abhisit really was not qualified to teach anything, at least based upon his academic achievements to that date. In university and college the minimum requirement to be a lecturer is typically a master's diploma and 1-3 years of work experience. At the tender age of 23-24, the time when Mr. Abhisit was supposedly educating the officer corps of Thailand, he really wasn't not qualified to be lecturing on any subject except perhaps the benefits of military coups for families such as his. Now I don't know if you had an education beyond that of high school, but if you attended university or college , please be honest and ask yourself if you ever had a lecturer that was under the age of 25 and that at a minimum was not a doctoral candidate or did not have a master's. It's not usual or normal practice to accord someone like Mr. Abhisit such a position.

In any case, there is a big difference between someone that VOLUNTEERS for service and someone that does not volunteer and waits a couple years befoe finding a way to deal with a missed conscription compliance requirement.

As for Mr. Jatuporn, I do not understand why you are confused about his appearance as a PTP party list candidate. The UDD aligned itself with the PTP at the time and it is normal to grant political representation to sizeable voting blocks. It really is no different than small parties having a partcipation in some coalition governments. Mr. Jatuporn is a prominent figure with a strong following. I would not be surprised if these people were responsible for his economic opportunities. Mr. Jatuporn is using Mr. Thaksin.

[thaicbr]

Gk.

Did you pull those minimum requirements out of thin air?

In 1985 he hadn't finished his degree so thats why he was exempted until 87 when he finished.

There is also a HUGE difference between volunteering and GETTING A JOB.

He didn't miss conscription he applied and received the delay at the Thai embassy London.

At least he wasn't at the brown mafia college learning to back pocket the nations 30%.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Arkady]

The defence minister was sounding very confident he could support Jatuporn's allegations a few days ago but he suddenly cancelled a press conference on the subject a few days ago. He doesn't have the support of the army commander which might make the case difficult for Jatuporn. Things are getting dicey for Jatuporn since he stands to go to jail if he gets a second conviction for criminal defamation.

[retarius]

The thing that scares me about this nut, is that some people believe it.

I do....I thnk Abhisit is a lying, draft-dodging SOB...ever since he stood up in Parliament and said that the army didn't have any live rounds at the red shirt demo....I heard him say it...then next day he was complaining that the red shirts had stolen ammo from the army.....how many lies do you have to tell to be a liar? The truth will come out about his draft dodging, and he'll be toast.

[Buchholz]

The defence minister was sounding very confident he could support Jatuporn's allegations a few days ago but he suddenly cancelled a press conference on the subject a few days ago. He doesn't have the support of the army commander which might make the case difficult for Jatuporn. Things are getting dicey for Jatuporn since he stands to go to jail if he gets a second conviction for criminal defamation.

The metronome is quickening for Jatuporn's return to jail.

.

[rubl]

The thing that scares me about this nut, is that some people believe it.

I do....I thnk Abhisit is a lying, draft-dodging SOB...ever since he stood up in Parliament and said that the army didn't have any live rounds at the red shirt demo....I heard him say it...then next day he was complaining that the red shirts had stolen ammo from the army.....how many lies do you have to tell to be a liar? The truth will come out about his draft dodging, and he'll be toast.

I do not agree with your opinion, but respect your right to it.

Still a minor correction if I may. I think it was k. Suthep who was dodgy on live ammunition, not k. Abhisit.

[thaicbr]

The thing that scares me about this nut, is that some people believe it.

I do....I thnk Abhisit is a lying, draft-dodging SOB...ever since he stood up in Parliament and said that the army didn't have any live rounds at the red shirt demo....I heard him say it...then next day he was complaining that the red shirts had stolen ammo from the army.....how many lies do you have to tell to be a liar? The truth will come out about his draft dodging, and he'll be toast.

umm it is fairly well documented that the Reds did indeed seize guns and ammunition from soldiers a few times prior to the events at Central world. And didn't he state that at that time he believed they didn't have live rounds.

If it is true that he did draft dodge by falsifying papers. Then i imagine there will be a fair few standing Politicians in the same boat,,, They didn't all 'volunteer' as GK would have us think. possibly including the Red mouth himself... i wonder if HE did conscription?

[surangw]

who is working the strings on this marionette?

[Siripon]

The defence minister was sounding very confident he could support Jatuporn's allegations a few days ago but he suddenly cancelled a press conference on the subject a few days ago. He doesn't have the support of the army commander which might make the case difficult for Jatuporn. Things are getting dicey for Jatuporn since he stands to go to jail if he gets a second conviction for criminal defamation.

I believe he'll hold another press conference today.

[Siripon]

I remember Apisit's secretary, Nipon Promphan, was hurt and bloodied in the attack on Apisit's car at the Interior Ministry.

Everyone who knows Apisit knows he's incapable of planning such an attack.

Jatupon, Thailand's second greatest liar.

[jayboy]

I remember Apisit's secretary, Nipon Promphan, was hurt and bloodied in the attack on Apisit's car at the Interior Ministry.

Everyone who knows Apisit knows he's incapable of planning such an attack.

Jatupon, Thailand's second greatest liar.

Why the diversion to Apisit's secretary and the redshirt attack on Abhisit's car ?

Jatuporn is certainly not to everyone's taste but the usual suspects' hatefest on this thread doesn't seem that pertinent.The question is whether there is a case that Abhisit escaped conscription through the lectureship route.I doubt whether anyone on the forum is qualified to speak on whether this conformed with the regulations or not.It's not in my view much more than a minor issue -particularly since it happened so long ago - but on the face of it there is a case for Abhisit to answer.Instead we get just the usual foaming and ranting about Jatuporn.

Taking the long view and removing personalisation, the matter of conscription in Thailand has some parallels with the USA particularly at the time of Vietnam.The sons of the well born, well educated and influential almost always managed to evade the draft (many honourable exceptions I accept).In Thailand the situation is many times worse and in a fashion the usual suspects are not well equipped to understand, encapsulates the huge anger among many ordinary Thais against those who benefit from the political and social status quo.But I may as well try explaining that aspect to my cat.

[thaicbr]

I remember Apisit's secretary, Nipon Promphan, was hurt and bloodied in the attack on Apisit's car at the Interior Ministry.

Everyone who knows Apisit knows he's incapable of planning such an attack.

Jatupon, Thailand's second greatest liar.

Why the diversion to Apisit's secretary and the redshirt attack on Abhisit's car ?

Jatuporn is certainly not to everyone's taste but the usual suspects' hatefest on this thread doesn't seem that pertinent.The question is whether there is a case that Abhisit escaped conscription through the lectureship route.I doubt whether anyone on the forum is qualified to speak on whether this conformed with the regulations or not.It's not in my view much more than a minor issue -particularly since it happened so long ago - but on the face of it there is a case for Abhisit to answer.Instead we get just the usual foaming and ranting about Jatuporn.

Taking the long view and removing personalisation, the matter of conscription in Thailand has some parallels with the USA particularly at the time of Vietnam.The sons of the well born, well educated and influential almost always managed to evade the draft (many honourable exceptions I accept).In Thailand the situation is many times worse and in a fashion the usual suspects are not well equipped to understand, encapsulates the huge anger among many ordinary Thais against those who benefit from the political and social status quo.But I may as well try explaining that aspect to my cat.

The diversion as you put it is simple. That's what <snip> said in court. He was foaming and ranting about Abhisit. See i told you it was Simple really.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited July 27, 2012 by soundman
Please use politicians correct names, or accepted nick names.

[Reasonableman]

Re #52

The topic is "Jatuporn Sticks By His Allegations Against Abhisit", is it not? Which part of that are posters allowed to discuss, in your view?

The part about the USA and the Vietnam War?

It appears that the case against Abhisit has not yet been proven, but some apparently prefer to believe that it has. If it is proven, he like every other person, should be held accountable equally before the law. Does anyone disagree with this guiding principle for all members of society? According to the law, and the most objective and credible legal process that can be attained, not the kangaroo court of public opinion, whether it be biased for, or biased against. And not by various political agendas, whoever is driving them.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Reasonableman

[jayboy]

Re #52

The topic is "Jatuporn Sticks By His Allegations Against Abhisit", is it not? Which part of that are posters allowed to discuss, in your view?

The part about the USA and the Vietnam War?

It appears that the case against Abhisit has not yet been proven, but some apparently prefer to believe that it has. If it is proven, he like every other person, should be held accountable equally before the law. Does anyone disagree with this guiding principle for all members of society? According to the law, and the most objective and credible legal process that can be attained, not the kangaroo court of public opinion, whether it be biased for, or biased against. And not by various political agendas, whoever is driving them.

Do you need me to explain further the relevance of the American draft dodging comparison? I would have thought it would have been easily understood.

The same guiding principle for all members of society, to use your expression, is precisely the point.Whether Abhisit dodged the draft is a matter I doubt whether any member of this forum could pronounce on with authority.The clear abuse however of military conscription requirements in Thailand by the privileged is a matter of record.

[Reasonableman]

Re #52

The topic is "Jatuporn Sticks By His Allegations Against Abhisit", is it not? Which part of that are posters allowed to discuss, in your view?

The part about the USA and the Vietnam War?

It appears that the case against Abhisit has not yet been proven, but some apparently prefer to believe that it has. If it is proven, he like every other person, should be held accountable equally before the law. Does anyone disagree with this guiding principle for all members of society? According to the law, and the most objective and credible legal process that can be attained, not the kangaroo court of public opinion, whether it be biased for, or biased against. And not by various political agendas, whoever is driving them.

Do you need me to explain further the relevance of the American draft dodging comparison? I would have thought it would have been easily understood.

The same guiding principle for all members of society, to use your expression, is precisely the point.Whether Abhisit dodged the draft is a matter I doubt whether any member of this forum could pronounce on with authority.The clear abuse however of military conscription requirements in Thailand by the privileged is a matter of record.

This is a specific case.

So what part of what I wrote do you disagree with? It seems we are agreed in principle. No colors, no classes, all equal before the law.

[Ferangled]

Re #52

The topic is "Jatuporn Sticks By His Allegations Against Abhisit", is it not? Which part of that are posters allowed to discuss, in your view?

The part about the USA and the Vietnam War?

It appears that the case against Abhisit has not yet been proven, but some apparently prefer to believe that it has. If it is proven, he like every other person, should be held accountable equally before the law. Does anyone disagree with this guiding principle for all members of society? According to the law, and the most objective and credible legal process that can be attained, not the kangaroo court of public opinion, whether it be biased for, or biased against. And not by various political agendas, whoever is driving them.

Rank hypocrisy again...

So the case against Abhisit hasn't been proved so we should refrain from "the kangaroo court of public opinion"...

but equally the case against Jatuporn hasn't been proved but it's open season for public judgement and childish comments... and you have no issue with that!

Great stuff, your selective reasoning is crystal clear, the sentiment you expressed is a noble one but the manner in which you apply it is not, it makes a mockery of your statement.

[thaicbr]

Re #52

The topic is "Jatuporn Sticks By His Allegations Against Abhisit", is it not? Which part of that are posters allowed to discuss, in your view?

The part about the USA and the Vietnam War?

It appears that the case against Abhisit has not yet been proven, but some apparently prefer to believe that it has. If it is proven, he like every other person, should be held accountable equally before the law. Does anyone disagree with this guiding principle for all members of society? According to the law, and the most objective and credible legal process that can be attained, not the kangaroo court of public opinion, whether it be biased for, or biased against. And not by various political agendas, whoever is driving them.

Rank hypocrisy again...

So the case against Abhisit hasn't been proved so we should refrain from "the kangaroo court of public opinion"...

but equally the case against Jatuporn hasn't been proved but it's open season for public judgement and childish comments... and you have no issue with that!

Great stuff, your selective reasoning is crystal clear, the sentiment you expressed is a noble one but the manner in which you apply it is not, it makes a mockery of your statement.

Which case against Jatuporn?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Reasonableman]

Let due legal process proceed, in the hope that EVERYONE is treated equally before the law.

[Ferangled]

Let due legal process proceed, in the hope that EVERYONE is treated equally before the law.

That certainly would be a miracle in Thailand, worthy of the TAT campaign slogan... "Amazing Thailand", let's not hold our breath...