Anonymous Donor Gives Stranded New Zealander Ticket Home: Phuket

[edwinclapham]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.a quc

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Yes Bookman, a quick easy sale of insurance... and then you are left up sh1t street if there an accident occurs.

I was fully insured when the tsunami struck, it meant bugger all " an act of god"

Where were u when the tsunami struck eddie?

Beach front Hotel in Phuket Bookman

[BookMan]

Where were u when the tsunami struck eddie?

Beach front Hotel in Phuket Bookman

Oh , crap! Sorry to hear that. I've heard a few second hand stories and seen the youtube vids. Would have been an awful time for you mate.

[edwinclapham]

Where were u when the tsunami struck eddie?

Beach front Hotel in Phuket Bookman

Oh , crap! Sorry to hear that. I've heard a few second hand stories and seen the youtube vids. Would have been an awful time for you mate.

Surreal Bookman... we were very lucky!

[BookMan]

Where were u when the tsunami struck eddie?

Beach front Hotel in Phuket Bookman

Oh , crap! Sorry to hear that. I've heard a few second hand stories and seen the youtube vids. Would have been an awful time for you mate.

Surreal Bookman... we were very lucky!

ill have to hear the story from you one day in person

[sunshine51]

I hope he manages to successfully sue.

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Sue em for all they're worth Sean...get well...and return to LOS to have

that holiday you were hoping to have.

[sportsman69]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Having talked to Sean a few times during his incarceration at BKP hospital, he stated that this was the case. The agent who sold him the policy upon his request for full cover for every eventuality, said he would be covered for a motorbike accident. This he stated was in front of a witness, he didn't state who, but possibly a friend or his girl friend Amy. My advise was to seek a lawyer who if he were convinced of the facts would be prepared to take the case on as a Pro Bono situation.

Questioning the facts about why the van driver has not been apprehended, his insurance should be made liable, and that no police report was available, rumour on the ground is that the van was being driven by an off duty cop or a close relative. Say no more.

The most of us on this forum have lived here a fair number of years and have learnt how the " system " works. Unfortunately, for a first timer such as Sean, coming to the land of smiles, he did not. To him it has turned into the land of sh1t.

He had no say to which hospital he was admitted, for god's sakes he was unconscious, near death and had no say in the matter. He was viewed as a cash cow to milk whether he had insurance or not. Unfortunately he had none.

All the best to you Sean and don't give up. Strength will conquer any adversity.

[stevenl]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Major oops for TravelCentre staff training - so is the agent (TravelCentre) liable under the contract T&C's? I imagine would be extremely difficult to prove in Court. But in the instance of Sean apparently he did not have a motorbike license so irrelevant.

I don't know about Sean, but if Thailand does not require a motorcycle specific license (that being a drivers license covers car and bike), or it allows you to drive a motorcycle with an International Drivers Permit (or your own countries DL) he would be covered.

That assumes he had the IDP.

In my case i would have been liable in an accident if I had taken their policy at face value. What they verbally say and what is written are two different things. So whatever I sign for is what i agree to. And fair enough too.

I always read insurance policy fine print.

Specific motorbike license required to legally ride the bike. Can be home license provided this is in English and indicated for what kind of vehicle it is valid. If that is the case no IDP required.

[BigJohnson]

Unfortunately most people never think about how dangerous riding a motorcycle really is. No matter how long or how skilled of a rider you are (myself included), you cannot control the actions of the people sitting behind the wheel of a 4000 pound (approx.1800 kg) vehicle.

Insurance coverage issues set aside; I hope Sean really understands how lucky he is to be alive and not being shipped back home in a box. I do wish him a heart felt speedy recovery and applaud the anonymous benefactor for being a true humanitarian (which the world needs more of)!

[simple1]

there is a statement on Facebook that Sean does have a license for a motorbike

http://www.facebook.com/I.Love.New.Zealand/posts/237265946393590?comment_id=798416&offset=0&total_comments=8

[djvolak]

Great to see the community spirit of fellow NZ (and other) benefactors.

Shame on the Phuket hospital for kicking him out. Just goes to prove that some medicos and hospitals couldn't really give a crap about a persons health or fight for life and that the almighty dollars reigns supreme!

Personally I think the NZ ambassador should have stepped in and represented the interests of this young man,... so shame on the NZ Govt and the Consulate for that,.. self serving sloths. So while you're at it with the insurance company make sure to give the "honorable" NZ consulate to Thailand some curry as well mate!

I think if you read the post you will see that the NZ Consulate did step in and get him transfered to a private room at the second hospital when they kicked him out of the private hospital. I think it said the next day so that is pretty fast for Govt work if ya ask me. So if he takes em some curry it should probably be on a clean plate.

[gaucho]

whether he was covered or not just remember something ....would a foreigner be kicked out of a hospital in say nz oz or the uk ...they would sue the govt and the bleeding hearts would give the victims a fortune ....yes u should double check the insurance ...naturally they r going to try and slide out ...

[BWPattaya]

From the Covermore application form on their website

Motorcycle & Moped Riding

If you wish to be covered for riding a motorcycle (including a moped) as the driver or pillion passenger, you must pay an extra premium.

Even if you pay the extra premium, you will only be covered if:

• the engine capacity is 200 cc or less
  
• you're not participating in a professional capacity
  
• whilst in control of the vehicle, you hold a license valid in the relevant country
  
• you're wearing a helmet
  
• you're not racing
  

That is clear enough.

[Nigel1500]

Well it looks as though he thought he had adequate insurance which included MC so fair play to the lad.

It just goes to show how vigilant you have to be with the small print.

Great to see the community spirit and alive and kicking and delighted he is back on his own home turf for further treatment.

What a nightmare!

Wrong. It was reported in the Australian media that he knew he didn't have motorcycle insurance.

"His insurance refused to pay, claiming that motorbike accidents were not covered under his “premium policy”."

When I get back New Zealand, I’m going to court with my insurance company. I was supposed to be covered for motorbike [accidents]. I was supposed to be covered for everything. And then, when I had the accident, they told me I wasn’t. They pulled out and I’m left with big bills, huge bills.

I was going by the original post. WRONG!! well it is confusing and I dont search in Australian newspapers for accidents that have happened in Thailand. Mistaken, it could well be, but there is no need for your very curt WRONG! There are ways of responding to a post you know!

CoverMore does not have a "Premium Policy". They have "TravelSure" and "Essentials". The term, "Premium Policy" has been invented by somebody else. As I said before, no matter which policy you choose it is impossible to sign the form without answering the motorcycle question. On-line, it is impossible to pay without answering the motorcycle question. The question is NOT in the fine print. It is 12pt, bold text on the declaration page and requires either Yes or No to be selected. It cannot be left blank.

It pays to know the whole situation before going it to bat for someone.

I'm sure this is not the first time CoverMore has been in this situation and I'm tired of listening to people blame insurers when travellers attempt to save a few bucks on insurance, yet spend thousands on a holiday!!!

The lad has misled people here by lying about his cover to the media. He was fit enough to get to the airport and fly home, but didn't bother to go to the police station and report the incident. I'd be very surprised if the police didn't investigate. If I was in that situation I'd be dealing with the Minister for Police. Sean's actions remain unconvincing to me.

[Nigel1500]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

WRONG:

What a misleading post.

Firstly, you must answer Yes or No to Motorcycle ... it is impossible to leave the option blank on-line, you simply cannot proceed to the payment page until you've made your selection. On the printed form the question requires that you tick EITHER "Yes" or "No" for the motocycle cover. If you complete the form and lodge it at a FlightCentre, as you suggest, the printed policy/receipt includes a line that states whether or not you're covered for motorcycle.

Secondly, even if you opted out of motorcycle cover, you are still covered as a pillion passenger on the back of a motorcycle driven by someone else, provided that you were wearing a helmet. The option is only to cover you when you are in control of the vehicle.

[Nigel1500]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Major oops for TravelCentre staff training - so is the agent (TravelCentre) liable under the contract T&C's? I imagine would be extremely difficult to prove in Court. But in the instance of Sean apparently he did not have a motorbike license so irrelevant.

I don't know about Sean, but if Thailand does not require a motorcycle specific license (that being a drivers license covers car and bike), or it allows you to drive a motorcycle with an International Drivers Permit (or your own countries DL) he would be covered.

That assumes he had the IDP.

In my case i would have been liable in an accident if I had taken their policy at face value. What they verbally say and what is written are two different things. So whatever I sign for is what i agree to. And fair enough too.

I always read insurance policy fine print.

Covered in another thread:

1. Thailand requires a motorcycle licence;

2. Thailand requires tourists to hold BOTH a current International Driver's Permit AND full motorcycle licence in their home country.

[BookMan]

Covered in another thread:

1. Thailand requires a motorcycle licence;

2. Thailand requires tourists to hold BOTH a current International Driver's Permit AND full motorcycle licence in their home country.

yes mate, someone answered it.

Do you have to use RED CAPS?

i think everyone can read

[BookMan]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

WRONG:

What a misleading post.

Firstly, you must answer Yes or No to Motorcycle ... it is impossible to leave the option blank on-line, you simply cannot proceed to the payment page until you've made your selection. On the printed form the question requires that you tick EITHER "Yes" or "No" for the motocycle cover. If you complete the form and lodge it at a FlightCentre, as you suggest, the printed policy/receipt includes a line that states whether or not you're covered for motorcycle.

Secondly, even if you opted out of motorcycle cover, you are still covered as a pillion passenger on the back of a motorcycle driven by someone else, provided that you were wearing a helmet. The option is only to cover you when you are in control of the vehicle.

Oh dear, another nigel1500 definitive 'WRONG'.

You are the same person who claimed it was $15 a week for motorcycle insurance?

You do not read very carefully Nigel1500.

Did I say anywhere about you not having to tick the box online? No, Nigel1500, i did not.

Did i say I was printing and lodging the form at flightcentre? No, Nigel1500, i did not.

Did I say I was offered insurance and was verbally told that it covered everything including motorcycles? yes, nigel1500, i did

I would say, before you make an ars_e of yourself again, why not read what I say carefully.

[stevenl]

I don't know about Sean, but if Thailand does not require a motorcycle specific license (that being a drivers license covers car and bike), or it allows you to drive a motorcycle with an International Drivers Permit (or your own countries DL) he would be covered.

That assumes he had the IDP.

In my case i would have been liable in an accident if I had taken their policy at face value. What they verbally say and what is written are two different things. So whatever I sign for is what i agree to. And fair enough too.

I always read insurance policy fine print.

Covered in another thread:

1. Thailand requires a motorcycle licence;

2. Thailand requires tourists to hold BOTH a current International Driver's Permit AND full motorcycle licence in their home country.

Yes to one, but no to the IDP. Required is a national permit in English clearly stating the kind of vehicle licensed to drive.

[stevenl]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

WRONG:

What a misleading post.

Firstly, you must answer Yes or No to Motorcycle ... it is impossible to leave the option blank on-line, you simply cannot proceed to the payment page until you've made your selection. On the printed form the question requires that you tick EITHER "Yes" or "No" for the motocycle cover. If you complete the form and lodge it at a FlightCentre, as you suggest, the printed policy/receipt includes a line that states whether or not you're covered for motorcycle.

Secondly, even if you opted out of motorcycle cover, you are still covered as a pillion passenger on the back of a motorcycle driven by someone else, provided that you were wearing a helmet. The option is only to cover you when you are in control of the vehicle.

Oh dear, another nigel1500 definitive 'WRONG'.

You are the same person who claimed it was $15 a week for motorcycle insurance?

You do not read very carefully Nigel1500.

Did I say anywhere about you not having to tick the box online? No, Nigel1500, i did not.

Did i say I was printing and lodging the form at flightcentre? No, Nigel1500, i did not.

Did I say I was offered insurance and was verbally told that it covered everything including motorcycles? yes, nigel1500, i did

I would say, before you make an ars_e of yourself again, why not read what I say carefully.

Fine, but that would mean that before you completed the application process you would have known that for riding a motorbike you would need the additional cover. So the point is, it is not finished after 'the woman told me'.

[simple1]

As we all know Sean acquired travel insurance policy from a retail outlet of Flight Centre and allegedly given verbal assurance it covered all eventualities. This is patently false as all retail insurance product do not cover the likes of terrorism, war and acts of God. Sean lived in Australia for four years and all financial services product advertisements in all media state you must read the Product Disclosure Statement (PDS), prior to accepting and signing a policy. From all reports Sean did not not ask for or read the PDS that states you must acquire additional cover for driving a motorcycle. End of story...

EDIT: If his extended family were so concerned why didn't they get a personal loan or sell an asset rather than letting Sean go through the all the grief of being "stuck" in Thailand for weeks.

Edited July 30, 2012 by simple1

[stevenl]

As we all know Sean acquired travel insurance policy from a retail outlet of Flight Centre and allegedly given verbal assurance it covered all eventualities. This is patently false as all retail insurance product do not cover the likes of terrorism, war and acts of God. Sean lived in Australia for four years and all financial services product advertisements in all media state you must read the Product Disclosure Statement (PDS), prior to accepting and signing a policy. From all reports Sean did not not ask for or read the PDS that states you must acquire additional cover for driving a motorcycle. End of story...

EDIT: If his extended family were so concerned why didn't they get a personal loan or sell an asset rather than letting Sean go through the all the grief of being "stuck" in Thailand for weeks.

Finance companies won't be rushing to sell somebody a personal loan with as security 'to get my son back from Thailand where he is in hospital and we don't know yet how much the total bill will be'. If you have money you can get more money, if you don't have money and no security one needs other means.

[simple1]

As we all know Sean acquired travel insurance policy from a retail outlet of Flight Centre and allegedly given verbal assurance it covered all eventualities. This is patently false as all retail insurance product do not cover the likes of terrorism, war and acts of God. Sean lived in Australia for four years and all financial services product advertisements in all media state you must read the Product Disclosure Statement (PDS), prior to accepting and signing a policy. From all reports Sean did not not ask for or read the PDS that states you must acquire additional cover for driving a motorcycle. End of story...

EDIT: If his extended family were so concerned why didn't they get a personal loan or sell an asset rather than letting Sean go through the all the grief of being "stuck" in Thailand for weeks.

Finance companies won't be rushing to sell somebody a personal loan with as security 'to get my son back from Thailand where he is in hospital and we don't know yet how much the total bill will be'. If you have money you can get more money, if you don't have money and no security one needs other means.

Fair enough if the entire family have no access to financial services or disposable assets

Edited July 30, 2012 by simple1

[evadgib]

Helmet, Engine size (125cc or 50cc in many cases), Toxicoligy (Drink/Drugs) or Licence are among the most common "get out" clauses used by insurers. Anyone unable to tick all 4 can expect similar probs.

[Hamlet07]

I recall in another thread in this forum that the parents admitted their son didn't have a motorbike license, but expected the insurance company should cover all eventualities as requested all encompassing travel insurance. Naivety to the nth degree

Sitting here reading this reminds me of the times my brothers and I have caught motorbike taxis in BKK or Phuket, on occasions with nothing more than a plastic helmet/t shirts/short and thongs ... complete stupidity on our parts... crazy for the next of kin.Well I wish this lad much luck!

Yes-how true and bloody insurance companies esp Travel will jerk u around big time

[Hamlet07]

Helmet, Engine size (125cc or 50cc in many cases), Toxicoligy (Drink/Drugs) or Licence are among the most common "get out" clauses used by insurers. Anyone unable to tick all 4 can expect similar probs.

Well those four are definately Fair to be observed but when they try to pull a swifty under your nose and refuse to honour their obligations it's another thing.....

[Hamlet07]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Yes, you were sensible to read the fine and Very fine print !! Edited July 30, 2012 by metisdead
: Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette

[Nigel1500]

I don't know about Sean, but if Thailand does not require a motorcycle specific license (that being a drivers license covers car and bike), or it allows you to drive a motorcycle with an International Drivers Permit (or your own countries DL) he would be covered.

That assumes he had the IDP.

In my case i would have been liable in an accident if I had taken their policy at face value. What they verbally say and what is written are two different things. So whatever I sign for is what i agree to. And fair enough too.

I always read insurance policy fine print.

Covered in another thread:

1. Thailand requires a motorcycle licence;

2. Thailand requires tourists to hold BOTH a current International Driver's Permit AND full motorcycle licence in their home country.

Yes to one, but no to the IDP. Required is a national permit in English clearly stating the kind of vehicle licensed to drive.

Steve,

Section 42 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act said:

Section 42

• Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver licence.
  
• The driver must carry the driver licence and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request.
  
• This does not apply to those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.
  
• If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence specified in the Section 42-2.
  
• In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver licence, and show them to competent officers upon request.
  

Section 42-2

• In case there is a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver licence, an alien who does not have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorised by such a foreign government.
  

The "Treaty" to which the last bullet point of Section 42, and Section 42-2 refers is the Vienna Convention 1968, which supercedes the 1949 convention. It is the Convention, not the Thai Government, that stipulates that an IDP is not valid unless a corresponding drivers licence of the home country can be produced.

[simple1]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Yes, you were sensible to read the fine and Very fine print !!

You live in Australia - ever heard of the requirement to read the PDS prior to accepting an insurance contract?

[BookMan]

His insurance contract was with Cover More in Australia therefore under the jurisdiction of the Australian courts, not N.Z.

I have had covermore insurance. The woman who offered me the policy at the travel agency (flightcentre) told me it covered everything, including motorcycles. I took a copy of the quote/policy and said I would think about it.

After reading it through that night it was clear it did not cover motorcycle accidents. You had to pay more for that, not much , but a little more. Had I relied on her advice I would not have been covered.

I went online and did a quote with covermore (1 year): online you have to select the motorcycle coverage as optional (and you pay more). It is easy to assume you are covered for this when you are not IMO.

Yes, you were sensible to read the fine and Very fine print !!

You live in Australia - ever heard of the requirement to read the PDS prior to accepting an insurance contract?

I always read the contract.

[Nigel1500]

Helmet, Engine size (125cc or 50cc in many cases), Toxicoligy (Drink/Drugs) or Licence are among the most common "get out" clauses used by insurers. Anyone unable to tick all 4 can expect similar probs.

And, if you had a similar accident in your home country too you would have the same burden of proof.

Of course, insurance companies also have a disclosure clause and an honesty clause. Default on one of your four points and you've automatically defaulted on these too.

Buyer beware: there is no excuse for not reading and being familiar with the product you purchase. Insurers are obliged to disclose everything in their policy but, it seems, it is still their fault if a customer fails to read or understand the policy.

If Sean was to take the matter to court it would be an issue of breach of contract. As I said in an earlier post, contract law has been well-tested and there is plenty of precident here. He would be struggling to prosecute the travel agency if they were able to establish that the agent asked him to read through the policy or point out the options on the signature page.

It's a bitter pill to swallow and I wish Sean hadn't been unfortuntunate enough to have an accident at all, let alone be without insurance.