Conscription Of Your Son

[submaniac]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

[Monkeypants]

So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general.

My wife seems to think that it not allowed, maybe someone could clarify?

[Soutpeel]

I take your point Samran,

But, why would anyone enter a proffesion, knowing that because of his father being a farang, he could never hold a senior position.

Hold on minute, we are discussing two different aspects....this is about call up/national service...someone who has aspirations to become a General would be voluteering and going to a miltary academy and becoming a professional soldier (one hopes), National service duty is not a career path, it an obligation because you are citizen of that particluar country

[Soutpeel]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

Exactly go and look at the most famous soap/movie stars and personalities....how many are luuk-krung ?.....rather than being discriminated against, it appears this is what large portions of the population aspire to be

[thaicbr]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

Exactly go and look at the most famous soap/movie stars and personalities....how many are luuk-krung ?.....rather than being discriminated against, it appears this is what large portions of the population aspire to be

But I would doubt if the Thai army would let a dual citizen get high in the armed forces. National security and all that.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Soutpeel]

But I would doubt if the Thai army would let a dual citizen get high in the armed forces. National security and all that.

Same as every other country, even western countries were there are dual nationals involved, so Thailand no different in this regard, in fact it appears Thailand is more liberal in some respects, after all wasnt a previous Thai prime minster accused of being a British Citizen and holding a British PP ? cant get must higher office as a PM in country as regards national security..

Edited July 30, 2012 by Soutpeel

[TwoDogz]

^^I guess if every father felt like that there would be no soldiers.

Send your son into the battlefields under orders of hiso generals. An Army that is taught by people that adore corruption and sending someone elses kids to the battle lines. How many battle hard and experienced soldiers were on the front line in Bangkok in 2010 ?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

[Soutpeel]

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

If any one feels that strongly then the solution is very simple, give up the citizenship...problem solved

[TwoDogz]

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

If any one feels that strongly then the solution is very simple, give up the citizenship...problem solved

Yes, and lets not be critical of a system that puts your child into harms way.

Harms way in front of incompetence on a grand scale I might add.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

[Meisgq]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

Exactly go and look at the most famous soap/movie stars and personalities....how many are luuk-krung ?.....rather than being discriminated against, it appears this is what large portions of the population aspire to be

But I would doubt if the Thai army would let a dual citizen get high in the armed forces. National security and all that.

Discrimination exists in any country. For example, no person except a natural born US citizen can be President of the United States. There's also an age requirement. In Thailand, it is recommended that you attach a photo to your CV before applying for a job. Your son(s) will be discriminated anywhere they go.

[geriatrickid]

I have sons and i wil see hell freeze over before i let them get conscripted to the Thai army.

Who do you think was doing the flood relief work last year? Conscripts.

Which units are deployed after general flooding or catastrophe? Conscripts.

If you have lived in Thailand such that your son is now conscription age, then you will have benefited from the concripts being deployed after a natural disaster. Why then, would you expect someone else's kids to save you and them?

You like living in Thailand, but who is there to patrol the oceans keeping pirates at bay, to secure the borders, and to undertake social advancement projects? The full time defence forces can only do their job if the conscripts are there to take care of the non combat activities.

So your suggesting that conscripts are not put in harms way. Only the volunteers are!

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Not at all.

Do you know what one of the leading causes of death in the major militaries is? Go on, take a guess.

Motor vehicle mishaps. Yes, that's right, traffic collisions. By your logic, since driving a military vehicle, or being a passenger is a perilous activity, the conscripts should not be anywhere near a motor vehicle, but safe back at home.

Oh wait. One of the leading causes of death in Thailand is motor crashes. Know what another leading cause of death in the age group of conscripts is? Accidents. Here's the catch, the death rate due to accidents is lower in the military than in the civilian population. This is most likely due to the presence of non comms and officers that reduce the likelihood of the age group engaging in dangerous activities. In plain language, a 21 year old civilian is more likely to die in an accident than a 21 year old conscript. If your concern is safety, then surely you would opt for the less risky situation.

Yes, conscripts can get killed by an IED or a driveby in Thailand. Know what? Civilians get killed in drivebys and IEDS too.

Who do you expect to be used when there is a natural catastrophe? How do you propose that Thailand protect its southern population if the full time forces are relegated to disaster relief and guard duty at facilities?

Unfortunately, Thailand has a violent insurgency and if the general population wishes to protect itself, then some people are going to have to serve. The fact of the matter is that concripts are not considered for active duty that involves direct contact with the insurgents, unless they have served for at least a year. It's not out of compassion but borne out of reality. The conscripts are not as well trained as the full time units and they are not going to be allowed near expensive equipment. It takes time to train people to deal with an insurgency and that's why the burden of the southern activity is carried by the police and full time defence units.

I don't like conscription, and am not a supporter. However, this is Thailand and conscription fulfills an important part of the national cohesion. Most people have done service and it is a tie that binds. Unless someone is born into the upper social strata, the absence of national service can be detrimental to a career. You probably don't believe me, and will probably cite former PM Abhisit as one that did quite nicely without having gotten his hands dirty, but not everyone comes from such a background. Those that have done their service do not look favourably on those that have dodged it. That's the impression I have from my friends that have served. It really was no different than the generations in the west that served in WWI and WWII. People that had not served were left behind when it came to career opportunities. I suppose for someone that has no future or comes from a wealthy family, it doesn't matter, but for most of society it does matter.

BTW, invitations to formal Royal Household events will often include a refence to decorations. Westerners are allowed to wear their medals and most senior of ribbons at formal functions. I've seen it with my own eyes where the Australian vets who have their miniatures on, are treated with considerable respect. Don't think for a minute that service doesn't matter. Just ask Mark Abhisit who has had his service record hanging over his head for the past 2 decades.

[geriatrickid]

^^I guess if every father felt like that there would be no soldiers.

Send your son into the battlefields under orders of hiso generals. An Army that is taught by people that adore corruption and sending someone elses kids to the battle lines. How many battle hard and experienced soldiers were on the front line in Bangkok in 2010 ?

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

You are rather off in the assessment of the Bangkok violence. For the most part, the regular armed forces were used along with the police. It wasn't the best situation but they kept a lid on the violence and death. Those units were replaced by elite units such as the Queens Guards when the government delivered its ultimatum and undertook its action which resulted in an increased number of dead.

Are you aware that the airforce operates U-Tapao? The airforce was so inept that U-Tapao was able to provide support service, including emergency mechanical repairs for a large number of civilian aircraft that used it during the BKK shutdown. The airforce and navy are professional organizations with decent reputations. It is rather ridiculous to denigrate these service branches, particularly since you are apparently clueless as to the experienced core technical units that they have. The naval officers that crew the vessels and the pilots and their support crews are not the som tam vendors you make them out to be.

[Fookhaht]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

Exactly go and look at the most famous soap/movie stars and personalities....how many are luuk-krung ?.....rather than being discriminated against, it appears this is what large portions of the population aspire to be

But I would doubt if the Thai army would let a dual citizen get high in the armed forces. National security and all that.

Discrimination exists in any country. For example, no person except a natural born US citizen can be President of the United States. There's also an age requirement. In Thailand, it is recommended that you attach a photo to your CV before applying for a job. Your son(s) will be discriminated anywhere they go.

What? A country that requires its top leader to be a native? Wow, THAT'S HARSH!!!

[giddyup]

^^I guess if every father felt like that there would be no soldiers.

No soldiers, no wars.

[Soutpeel]

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you.

You seem to have trouble distingushing between conscription and going into the military as a career, nowhere in the world were conscription is used are constricts afforded an education, career and future, thats not the purpose of conscription.

Been there seen that done it, did I want to go ?, not really, do I regret doing it no, in hindsight it actually was good for me to learn some self disipline ....

[GarryP]

My only objection is the one raised by Monkeypants. Conscripts have the opportunity of making the forces a career, which includes study and promotion. In fact my son was interested in this at one time, only to be disappointed by the fact that as a luk kreung he is denied that opportunity. It seems to conflict with his constitutional rights but that is the way it is.

My way of looking at it is that if you are denied the rights afforded to purer blooded Thais then you should not be subject to conscription in the first place. I am sure "they" will argue national security and all that, but it just seems unfair.

He won't be accepted to police cadet school either because of his parentage, but that is another story.

[DLock]

Oh my.

A lot of little precious Mommy's boys, supported by Fathers with no sense of duty.

Be a man. Take a ball. If it's red, do the 2 years. Thai men will likely benefit from some discipline, routine and work ethic.

[chrisinth]

The fact that they carry a Thai passport or nationality makes then 100% Thai, so why should they be treat differently from other persons who are 100% Thai

The fact that he has a farang father, means he could never be a General in the army, I agree with the OP to some degree, why fight for a country who discriminates against you, of course when the time comes my son will be in the same position, I will let him choose, but he will know the facts before he chooses.

Are we still talking about conscription here? I would be impressed if he made it to general in two years. To achieve that position he would have to be a volunteer on a career path and if that was the case, it is out of the father's hands anyway.

[chrisinth]

^^I guess if every father felt like that there would be no soldiers.

No soldiers, no wars.

Cheers giddyup, needed that!

[Soutpeel]

Oh my.

A lot of little precious Mommy's boys, supported by Fathers with no sense of duty.

Be a man. Take a ball. If it's red, do the 2 years. Thai men will likely benefit from some discipline, routine and work ethic.

The irony is, a lot of posters are bleating on about discrimination, but thats exactly what they want only difference is the discrimination favours them, My son is dual national...blah blah, he not 100% Thai etc

As Samran has pointed out more than one way to "legally" avoid doing the two's..if not prepared to go any of those routes and worried about the risk of them ever being called up...as suggest give up the citizenship, its ok they still have another one, not big deal coming back here on a visa, same as their fathers

Edited July 30, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

Cheers giddyup, needed that!

But didnt he steal that line from Lennon's "Imagine"...

[endure]

^^I guess if every father felt like that there would be no soldiers.

No soldiers, no wars.

Cheers giddyup, needed that!

Works for Costa Rica.

[harryfrompattaya]

I have sons and i wil see hell freeze over before i let them get conscripted to the Thai army.

You have a Thai wife you live in Thailand wake up you son is Thai he should be treated like all Thais.

Are you special because you are a Teacher or married to a very rich Thai?

[harryfrompattaya]

I have sons and i wil see hell freeze over before i let them get conscripted to the Thai army.

Who are you to feel this way? A teacher someone married to a rich Thai women or just a farmers daughter?

I suggest you take your sons and live in the country of your passport. I hope your son love Thailand like I love Thailand

[harryfrompattaya]

My son, the best thing and the saviour of my life, will not and I guarantee be entering the Thai army!

When my son is 21 he will be towards the end of a degree in a university in England! He will he British and no more! As well as Jewish.

A British passport is a passport to life. I couldn't give a monkeys! My wife who I live dearly will have an English passport by then, aswell as my son and me. Inevitably it will mean happuness!

How is he Jewish someone call him a Jew in the bar you drink in.

Does he go to Temple every week do you go.

Or is he Jew because he has a Thai mother I think he is more Thai Ask a Rabbi

Edited July 30, 2012 by harryfrompattaya

[harryfrompattaya]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

Exactly go and look at the most famous soap/movie stars and personalities....how many are luuk-krung ?.....rather than being discriminated against, it appears this is what large portions of the population aspire to be

I guess all members of Thai Visa shall have TV stars

[nocturn]

If british fathers had the same attitude as some of these posters britain would have been under nazi occupation their attitude disgusts me. You live in the country you have children here it is their duty

quite right.

we must protect the kingdom from Nazis at all costs.

its nice to see the resurrection of obsolete and irrelevant nationalist sentiments

[Surin steve]

Alot of the people posting on this must be liveing in a different country to me I see no discrimination what so ever regarding my luuk krung son or daughters I have been to the army barracks my son is in and have talked to his commanding officers they are very impressed that my son had the opportunity to opt out of his conscription by giving up his Thai citizenship (he was born in uk ) but choose thailand

I fully beleve that my son was chosen to serve in the royal Thai horse guards ( Thai equivalent to the British grenadia guards) partly because of his farang blood he is alot taller and more muscular than the average Thai

I am fully aware that the Thai army has it's faults and is no match or can be compared with the likes of the British army but this is Thailand

To the guys who say no way will my lad ever become conscripted I would like to say "up to you" but is it surly it's up to your son

And to the guys who disagree with army's and wars in general I say of course everyone would like to live in pease but it will never happen maybe one day the fanatical Islamic mullers the Jewish and christian extremists and all the soldiers and politicians in the world will all sit down together in the sun and make daisy chains and decide to call there world "cloud cuckoo land"

[GarryP]

Oh my.

A lot of little precious Mommy's boys, supported by Fathers with no sense of duty.

Be a man. Take a ball. If it's red, do the 2 years. Thai men will likely benefit from some discipline, routine and work ethic.

The irony is, a lot of posters are bleating on about discrimination, but thats exactly what they want only difference is the discrimination favours them, My son is dual national...blah blah, he not 100% Thai etc

As Samran has pointed out more than one way to "legally" avoid doing the two's..if not prepared to go any of those routes and worried about the risk of them ever being called up...as suggest give up the citizenship, its ok they still have another one, not big deal coming back here on a visa, same as their fathers

Just want the same opportunities presented to full blooded Thais. If you read my post you would note that my son was interested in a career in the army. Hardly, running away from conscription. He is Thai and has got his educational deferment but eventually will have to test his luck at the lottery.

Actually, I think those who would consider leaving the country to avoid conscription for their sons, probably shouldn't be here in the first place. They clearly have no ties to the country and it means nothing to them. Wouldn't it be better to bring up their children in countries for which they have some good feelings they can share rather than in place about which they have nothing good to say.

[mjj]

Anybody that cares about their child would not let them be sent into the Thai army or airforce or anything else with its decrepit machinery all bought and maintained under less than ideal conditions when copy parts are bought to replace failing items at a tenth of the cost and then send Somchai off to test it.

If any one feels that strongly then the solution is very simple, give up the citizenship...problem solved

Give up citizenship! Why? He will just exercise his right being a Thai national that corruption money solves problems.

BTW it's nots just the Thai army I would object to him joining, it's any army. It's about time this world stopped blowing the shit out of everything because someone disagrees with someone.

Edited July 30, 2012 by mjj