Thai Airways To Put Off New Plane Purchases Due To Its Poor Financial Performance

[Lannig]

I think that the Thai Airways web site needs an update to its "history" page:

In its operations, THAI has achieved profitability every year for the last 40 consecutive years

That's not what the page quoted by Thai at Heart says: net loss of 10.2bn bahts in 2011.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Lannig

[Thai at Heart]

I think that the Thai Airways web site needs an update to its "history" page:

In its operations, THAI has achieved profitability every year for the last 40 consecutive years

That's not what the page quoted by Thai at Heart says: net loss of 10.2bn bahts in 2011.

He was obviously running on the Thai calendar. That was ages ago.

http://www.nationmul...nference/?p=321

Shame the budget doesn't extend to a proof reader.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[DGS1244]

Thai will never make money while it does stupid things like fly a Jumbo, a new one of course, between Bangkok and Chiang Mai several times a day. Always half empty, I guess so a ceretain family can travel first class for an hour.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Can't blame an airline for recognizing that it cannot afford new equipment. It seems to me that the previous CEO was intent on the equipment purchase that would taken on so much debt that the airline would have collapsed, Can there be any doubt now that the airline did the right thing in sacking him?

I can't disagree with you more.

Why I am many people do not use Thai is the dirty old planes and wrong planes for a route.

Why do they use 747's to CNX that are 1/4 full.?

Now if they had 380's toback home I would use them first choice.

and how can other carriers sell tickets for half cost and make money but they can not at twice the price ?

[SuneeTH]

Can't blame an airline for recognizing that it cannot afford new equipment. It seems to me that the previous CEO was intent on the equipment purchase that would taken on so much debt that the airline would have collapsed, Can there be any doubt now that the airline did the right thing in sacking him?

I think you have got the fact wrong.

Didn't mark said something that his blue eye boy had turn TG from a big looser to one of asian biggest money maker in the past 2 years, hence the sacking was unjust?

Unfortunately, the losses incurred are public knowledge as TG is traded on the SET. Khun Abhisit got it wrong, but then he was never known for his management capabilities.

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. The losses before Piyavasti's changing the company around were much bigger, you fail to show the trend (how convenient). He was sacked because he talked straight instead of kow-towing.

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. He was sacked the same way he was appointed - kow-towing to Mark.

[Ricardo]

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. The losses before Piyavasti's changing the company around were much bigger, you fail to show the trend (how convenient). He was sacked because he talked straight instead of kow-towing.

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. He was sacked the same way he was appointed - kow-towing to Mark.

Chopping and changing top-management can't help turn the airline round, making the unpopular-but-necessary cuts in the poo-yai Board-members/MPs perks, and catching-up on the overdue replacement of tired/elderly-planes with new fuel-efficient ones, as the former boss was trying to do.

Pity that he didn't get enough time to do this, but it does send a very clear message, to future incumbents. Don't bother trying !

Thai will never make money while it does stupid things like fly a Jumbo, a new one of course, between Bangkok and Chiang Mai several times a day. Always half empty, I guess so a ceretain family can travel first class for an hour.

new Jumbos ... hardly ?

In point of fact it used to be once daily, currently is twice daily (TG 102/3 and TG120/1), which I suspect is full in Economy but fairly-empty in First/Business-classes. Perhaps the poo-yais on freebies will set an example in future, and fly on Thai-Smile's single-class A320s, instead ? Don't hold your breath !

Edited July 31, 2012 by Ricardo

[Thai at Heart]

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. The losses before Piyavasti's changing the company around were much bigger, you fail to show the trend (how convenient). He was sacked because he talked straight instead of kow-towing.

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. He was sacked the same way he was appointed - kow-towing to Mark.

Chopping and changing top-management can't help turn the airline round, making the unpopular-but-necessary cuts in the poo-yai Board-members/MPs perks, and catching-up on the overdue replacement of tired/elderly-planes with new fuel-efficient ones, as the former boss was trying to do.

Pity that he didn't get enough time to do this, but it does send a very clear message, to future incumbents. Don't bother trying !

Thai will never make money while it does stupid things like fly a Jumbo, a new one of course, between Bangkok and Chiang Mai several times a day. Always half empty, I guess so a ceretain family can travel first class for an hour.

new Jumbos ... hardly ?

In point of fact it used to be once daily, currently is twice daily (TG 102/3 and TG120/1), which I suspect is full in Economy but fairly-empty in First/Business-classes. Perhaps the poo-yais on freebies will set an example in future, and fly on Thai-Smile's single-class A320s, instead ? Don't hold your breath !

I often wonder if the losses equate very accurately to the value of the unreceived revenues caused by providing massive discounts to government employees. Without fail when I fly up country, at least half the business class, and a fair portion of economy is populated by people in black suits. It can't be very profitable flying 30% of a plane at government discounted rates.

[loumaripol]

Good Afternoon All,

There seems to be a fair amount of myth and confusion regarding airline travel privileges. I am a retired United Airlines mid level manager. Having worked for a number of US and other airlines my pass travel has been subject to each carriers own rules. The industry offers this valuable perk for economic reasons:

Personal travel is standby for the vast majority of employees. Only a handful of corporate officers travel with confirmed seats.

For this reason free tickets are a cost effective substitute for cash compensation.

The number of passes vary by airline. The six flights a year offered by TG to the employee mentioned is really stingy. I can promise you they are standby.

United Continental holdings have a generous policy of unlimited coach travel on a standby basis. As a retiree I pay only airport service fees and security fees. Strictly standby for a seat after the flight has closed for check-in. The large, network airlines, referred to as legacy airlines have created a Zone based industry discount for other airline employees. Naturally these passengers are cleared after all other standby travelers. Standby upgrades are free only to very long-term staff and are very hard to get due to the upgrading of customers. For people like me there are moderate fees.

All personal passes have service charges. The tax thing was a myth up to recently. The US IRS now imposes taxes on an arbitrary value imposed by the IRS for what are commonly known as buddy passes.

Department stores give discounts to their employees. Same reasons apply.

You wll see me seated, quietly reading, when you board, waiting for a seat. Have good flight my friends!

[Ricardo]

I often wonder if the losses equate very accurately to the value of the unreceived revenues caused by providing massive discounts to government employees. Without fail when I fly up country, at least half the business class, and a fair portion of economy is populated by people in black suits. It can't be very profitable flying 30% of a plane at government discounted rates.

It certainly can't help cover the costs, when IIRC MPs get free-flights (not recharged by the airline as part of their parliamentary-expenses), and all current/past Board-members (and their families ?) fly for free !

Oh, to be an external-auditor or consultant, sent in to look at the 'books' and see what's really going on there ! Although, on second thoughts, an honest report might be harmful to one's health.

[loumaripol]

On the subject of TG:

They have suffered from their politically motivated revolving door for senior officers forever. With each management change a new fleet policy is made public. Thai has an aging fleet form both major manufacturers.

Some of their fleet choices have casued costly failed routes. Bangkok - Los Angeles (non-stop) was flown using A340-500 aircraft. The route was popular, but there were a lot of upgrades to business class. The cost of operating a 4 engine aircraft made the route fail. The Boeing 777-200LR would have made profits possible. That would have been conditioned on high Business Class paid loads. The product was not up to industry standard. Connections were hampered by the lousy airport - BKK.

Regarding widebody flights on short routes: high economy class demand and limited runway capacity might justify this routing decsion. Often these internal flight are added because they offer the airline better aircraft utilization. Seats flying with customers are the goal.

It is a mystery to me how Thai benefits from 49% ownership of NOK Air. Nok is an excellent low cost carrier but they are based at Don Muang. Connection times are very long and a hassle. Adding Smiles makes all this noise more confusing.

The terminated CEO lead Thai to be named 4th best in economy class. Not bad. Staff seemed to respect him. Important. Previous management made some good calls - economy seat pitch is better than almost any other long haul airline except, of course, Qatar.

The worst part of government ownership is the bureacratic structure that stops all initiative. That is sadly, very Thai, of course.

[fish fingers]

Big mistake sacking their last President, he was smart. He still featured in the inflight magazine last time I flew which is funny.

I've only been traveling on Thai airways recently and my girlfriend makes me fly budget internal flights as Thai is hardly ever delayed unlike Air Asia. This is one of two things keeping their reputation and bums on seats, the other being inflight service, which is usually v good, especially their long haul drink refills

Edited July 31, 2012 by fish fingers

[Thai at Heart]

I often wonder if the losses equate very accurately to the value of the unreceived revenues caused by providing massive discounts to government employees. Without fail when I fly up country, at least half the business class, and a fair portion of economy is populated by people in black suits. It can't be very profitable flying 30% of a plane at government discounted rates.

It certainly can't help cover the costs, when IIRC MPs get free-flights (not recharged by the airline as part of their parliamentary-expenses), and all current/past Board-members (and their families ?) fly for free !

Oh, to be an external-auditor or consultant, sent in to look at the 'books' and see what's really going on there ! Although, on second thoughts, an honest report might be harmful to one's health.

As far as i know all civil service departments get a discounted rate. Thai airways domestic is like their private transport service and in the days before i got a gold card was bumped more than a few times.

[Ricardo]

I often wonder if the losses equate very accurately to the value of the unreceived revenues caused by providing massive discounts to government employees. Without fail when I fly up country, at least half the business class, and a fair portion of economy is populated by people in black suits. It can't be very profitable flying 30% of a plane at government discounted rates.

It certainly can't help cover the costs, when IIRC MPs get free-flights (not recharged by the airline as part of their parliamentary-expenses), and all current/past Board-members (and their families ?) fly for free !

Oh, to be an external-auditor or consultant, sent in to look at the 'books' and see what's really going on there ! Although, on second thoughts, an honest report might be harmful to one's health.

As far as i know all civil service departments get a discounted rate. Thai airways domestic is like their private transport service and in the days before i got a gold card was bumped more than a few times.

I stand corrected ... Thanks !

[onthemoon]

Aww and i wanted to fly on the A380.

Singapore Airlines, Emirates can make your wish come true. For Thai, it's gonna be a long long time before you can step foot in one. Guess that there will be an extensive refurbishment of some older aircrafts..

And they are still one of the most expensive airlines.......... flying older planes.

They are more expensive from Thailand, because they offer direct flights. If you book TG from other countries, they are cheap.

It's the law of supply and demand, nothing surprising about their prices.

[onthemoon]

On the subject of TG:

They have suffered from their politically motivated revolving door for senior officers forever. With each management change a new fleet policy is made public. Thai has an aging fleet form both major manufacturers.

Some of their fleet choices have casued costly failed routes. Bangkok - Los Angeles (non-stop) was flown using A340-500 aircraft. The route was popular, but there were a lot of upgrades to business class. The cost of operating a 4 engine aircraft made the route fail. The Boeing 777-200LR would have made profits possible. That would have been conditioned on high Business Class paid loads. The product was not up to industry standard. Connections were hampered by the lousy airport - BKK.

Regarding widebody flights on short routes: high economy class demand and limited runway capacity might justify this routing decsion. Often these internal flight are added because they offer the airline better aircraft utilization. Seats flying with customers are the goal.

It is a mystery to me how Thai benefits from 49% ownership of NOK Air. Nok is an excellent low cost carrier but they are based at Don Muang. Connection times are very long and a hassle. Adding Smiles makes all this noise more confusing.

The terminated CEO lead Thai to be named 4th best in economy class. Not bad. Staff seemed to respect him. Important. Previous management made some good calls - economy seat pitch is better than almost any other long haul airline except, of course, Qatar.

The worst part of government ownership is the bureacratic structure that stops all initiative. That is sadly, very Thai, of course.

Well said, except it's not a Thai monopoly. Remember Olympic Airways?

[onthemoon]

Big mistake sacking their last President, he was smart. He still featured in the inflight magazine last time I flew which is funny.

I've only been traveling on Thai airways recently and my girlfriend makes me fly budget internal flights as Thai is hardly ever delayed unlike Air Asia. This is one of two things keeping their reputation and bums on seats, the other being inflight service, which is usually v good, especially their long haul drink refills

I totally agree with this. I once flew a "budget airline" from Ho Chi Minh back to Thailand. I had to pay for the seat reservation. the flight date change, for each of my bags, and for the food and drink on board. The final cost was the same as on TG, where I would have earned miles. No more "cheap" airlines for me.

[onthemoon]

I think you have got the fact wrong.

Didn't mark said something that his blue eye boy had turn TG from a big looser to one of asian biggest money maker in the past 2 years, hence the sacking was unjust?

Unfortunately, the losses incurred are public knowledge as TG is traded on the SET. Khun Abhisit got it wrong, but then he was never known for his management capabilities.

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. The losses before Piyavasti's changing the company around were much bigger, you fail to show the trend (how convenient). He was sacked because he talked straight instead of kow-towing.

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. He was sacked the same way he was appointed - kow-towing to Mark.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

[onthemoon]

Well, that's your opinion but not a fact. He was sacked the same way he was appointed - kow-towing to Mark.

Chopping and changing top-management can't help turn the airline round, making the unpopular-but-necessary cuts in the poo-yai Board-members/MPs perks, and catching-up on the overdue replacement of tired/elderly-planes with new fuel-efficient ones, as the former boss was trying to do.

Pity that he didn't get enough time to do this, but it does send a very clear message, to future incumbents. Don't bother trying !

Thai will never make money while it does stupid things like fly a Jumbo, a new one of course, between Bangkok and Chiang Mai several times a day. Always half empty, I guess so a ceretain family can travel first class for an hour.

new Jumbos ... hardly ?

In point of fact it used to be once daily, currently is twice daily (TG 102/3 and TG120/1), which I suspect is full in Economy but fairly-empty in First/Business-classes. Perhaps the poo-yais on freebies will set an example in future, and fly on Thai-Smile's single-class A320s, instead ? Don't hold your breath !

I often wonder if the losses equate very accurately to the value of the unreceived revenues caused by providing massive discounts to government employees. Without fail when I fly up country, at least half the business class, and a fair portion of economy is populated by people in black suits. It can't be very profitable flying 30% of a plane at government discounted rates.

It wouldn't be profitable, but not everybody who wears a black suite travels for free. I would have saved a lot of money otherwise...

Not only people in shorts pay for their tickets.

[Sandman77]

I also dont understand why The Thai air is so expensive inside Thailand The want Charge me to munic and back 1300€ here i go to Travel Agency and at The moment The Charge for a Lufthansa flight Operated by Thai Airways 750€ go and back The arabs want 699€

The Service was always Good, The stuwardess clean The Toilete 3 times in one our Etihad and air Berlin never clean!

The airbus 380 have to much problems in the past, and maybe the monthly operating coast also to high!

One time I book a a38o flights with emirates paying high ticket price, and in Dubai the say, sorry we have not enough people for 380 and I also read that most airline not allowed normal economy class to go to the 2. Stage of the airplane, only for business emirates do like this!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[hellodolly]

Didn't read the article waste of time. Thai air to continue with high prices in second rate planes.

[jerrysteve]

Their prices are not as competitive as other Major Airlneys as well. They are usually higher.

Also, if they are doing that poorly financially, it makes their maintenance a bit suspect as well.

Kinda scary I would say.

[Noistar]

I also dont understand why The Thai air is so expensive inside Thailand The want Charge me to munic and back 1300€ here i go to Travel Agency and at The moment The Charge for a Lufthansa flight Operated by Thai Airways 750€ go and back The arabs want 699€

The Service was always Good, The stuwardess clean The Toilete 3 times in one our Etihad and air Berlin never clean!

The airbus 380 have to much problems in the past, and maybe the monthly operating coast also to high!

One time I book a a38o flights with emirates paying high ticket price, and in Dubai the say, sorry we have not enough people for 380 and I also read that most airline not allowed normal economy class to go to the 2. Stage of the airplane, only for business emirates do like this!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I must question your 'facts' concerning the A380.

They are/were no different to other aircraft.

They meet the criteria for cost-effective travel, and airlines can't get them fast-enough.

Emirates have just taken delivery of their 22nd A380. One assumes they want to make money?

Assuming 'swampy' can get it's act sorted, there will soon be Thai A380's flooding immigration with hundreds of passengers in one go.

Thai are following the same path as other airlines - ie cut the baseline costs and invest.

[Lannig]

One of the cheapest roundtrip tickets you can get from Paris to Bangkok is on Emirates and (at least) the Paris-Dubai part is on an A380, so I really don't see a premium price being paid for flying the whale jet.

I prefer Etihad myself, but I digress.