Law Re Collecting/Dropping Off Guests At The Airport In A Private Car

[simon43]

I'm getting word from my wife and ex that the latest police crack-down on illegal 'black' taxis at Phuket Airport is causing them some major difficulties in collecting and dropping off hotel guests at the airport.

The police checkpoint on the airport approach road has warned that it is illegal for my hotels to use our hotel private cars to collect/drop-off our hotel guests, and that we must use a commercially-registered vehicle.

I call <deleted> on this because for both my hotels, the 'shuttle' service is free of charge, and therefore our hotel cars are being used for the free and private transfer of our own hotel guests. We've done this for 9 years without any problem.

Does anyone know where we stand on Thai law. If indeed, the Law requires that all hotels/guesthouses must use a commercially-registered vehicle, then this suggest that every tinpot guesthouse would need to go to the expense of registering and insuring a commercial vehicle - and I do not believe for one minute that this will happen.

I'm fairly aggressive about this intrusion on our businesses. I've advised both wife and ex to warn off the police if they try this again and to carry a camera in the car and to use it when they are stopped.

But who knows Thai Law better on this point? Anyone??

Simon

[NomadJoe]

I am afraid the police are correct on this one. Free or not is irrelevant, but really it's not free anyway as it is a cost absorbed by you, essentially making it included in your room rates you set in your hotel. Semantics.

Now, if it is your private vehicle and you are transporting friends for free, then that is different, and you are fine, which is why you will usually get a way with it. Bit if your vehicle has markings of your hotel on it, is registered to your business, or you have a Thai driver which doesn't say the right things at the checkpoint, or simply can't convince the cops that these are just visiting friends (likely), then police can then demand you have it registered with proper plates and cite you for not having them. The problem then becomes you as a foreigner cannot drive the vehicle at all with certain, possibly all, commercial plates, and your driver will need a special endorsement on his drivers license to drive it. It's expensive, which is why most people choose to pay the local BIB tea money per month to get on there special permission list. That may or may not be an option in your area, and it will only work for that area. Each police station has their own lists.

Keep in mind that there are several different commercial plates in Thailand. There are options and you will need to talk with the LTD to determine which one is the right one based on what you want to do with the vehicle.

This is a partial collection. Some commercial plates, like the white background with green lettering, are missing.

Edited July 30, 2012 by NomadJoe

[FritsSikkink]

every tinpot guesthouse would need to go to the expense of registering and insuring a commercial vehicle

Or they could call a taxi.

use our hotel private cars = commercial cars

Are you insured if anything happens to your guests during transport?

[Jimi007]

I am afraid the police are correct on this one. Free or not is irrelevant, but really it's not free anyway as it is a cost absorbed by you, essentially making it included in your room rates you set in your hotel. Semantics.

Now, if it is your private vehicle and you are transporting friends for free, then that is different, and you are fine, which is why you will usually get a way with it. Bit if your vehicle has markings of your hotel on it, is registered to your business, or you have a Thai driver which doesn't say the right things at the checkpoint, or simply can't convince the cops that these are just visiting friends (likely), then police can then demand you have it registered with proper plates and cite you for not having them. The problem then becomes you as a foreigner cannot drive the vehicle at all with certain, possibly all, commercial plates, and your driver will need a special endorsement on his drivers license to drive it. It's expensive, which is why most people choose to pay the local BIB tea money per month to get on there special permission list. That may or may not be an option in your area, and it will only work for that area. Each police station has their own lists.

Keep in mind that there are several different commercial plates in Thailand. There are options and you will need to talk with the LTD to determine which one is the right one based on what you want to do with the vehicle.

This is a partial collection. Some commercial plates, like the white background with green lettering, are missing.

<snip>

I agree with you. My neighbors have white with blue numbering, which I think is used for school songtaews and some minibuses. My small truck came with the white with the green lettering, which I think is supposed to be a "work" truck, but it just gets taxed at a lower rate than white with black numbers.

[Hostile17]

hire a sexpat and pay him with ladies and changs to drive people around

You'll have him on call 24/7 and he can just state that hes bringing friends around.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Hostile17

[NomadJoe]

hire a sexpat and pay him with ladies and changs to drive people around

You'll have him on call 24/7 and he can just state that hes bringing friends around.

Simon I think H17 is volunteering.

[stevenl]

I am afraid the police are correct on this one. Free or not is irrelevant, but really it's not free anyway as it is a cost absorbed by you, essentially making it included in your room rates you set in your hotel. Semantics.

Now, if it is your private vehicle and you are transporting friends for free, then that is different, and you are fine, which is why you will usually get a way with it. Bit if your vehicle has markings of your hotel on it, is registered to your business, or you have a Thai driver which doesn't say the right things at the checkpoint, or simply can't convince the cops that these are just visiting friends (likely), then police can then demand you have it registered with proper plates and cite you for not having them. The problem then becomes you as a foreigner cannot drive the vehicle at all with certain, possibly all, commercial plates, and your driver will need a special endorsement on his drivers license to drive it. It's expensive, which is why most people choose to pay the local BIB tea money per month to get on there special permission list. That may or may not be an option in your area, and it will only work for that area. Each police station has their own lists.

Keep in mind that there are several different commercial plates in Thailand. There are options and you will need to talk with the LTD to determine which one is the right one based on what you want to do with the vehicle.

This is a partial collection. Some commercial plates, like the white background with green lettering, are missing.

<snip>

I agree with you. My neighbors have white with blue numbering, which I think is used for school songtaews and some minibuses. My small truck came with the white with the green lettering, which I think is supposed to be a "work" truck, but it just gets taxed at a lower rate than white with black numbers.

White plate with blue lettering is used for free transport like hotel staff to work etc.

[taninthai]

Yep the police are absolutely correct I know Thais that have been fined 2000 bht at krabi airport for transferring customers in a vehicle without taxi plates

[stevenl]

If there is illegal transport offered at the airport and the police don't do anything about that, complaints here on TV.

Now the police are doing something about illegal transport at the airport, complaints here on TV.

[hkt83100]

White plate with blue lettering is used for free transport like hotel staff to work etc.

Actually, it is a private car with more than 7 seats. My SsangYong (11 seats) has white/blue plates, and it is perfectly legal for me to drive this "family coach".

[stevenl]

White plate with blue lettering is used for free transport like hotel staff to work etc.

Actually, it is a private car with more than 7 seats. My SsangYong (11 seats) has white/blue plates, and it is perfectly legal for me to drive this "family coach".

Yes, non-thais can drive a car with white plates/blue lettering since it is not allowed to be used for paid transfers or transfers included in trip price. Quite often white plates with blue lettering are also used illegally BTW, where yellow/blacks should be used.

Edited July 31, 2012 by stevenl

[NomadJoe]

If there is illegal transport offered at the airport and the police don't do anything about that, complaints here on TV.

Now the police are doing something about illegal transport at the airport, complaints here on TV.

Look at the bright side, at least this thread shows that you can actually get intelligent, non-childish responses (with just one exception in this case) to a serious question. That's an improvement over the way it was 1-2 years ago.

Edited July 31, 2012 by NomadJoe

[simon43]

Well, I'm not happy about the replies, but must accept that what we have been doing for years and years without problems is actually illegal

It is not an issue about me driving a commercial vehicle - I'm 800km in Yangon. My wife (and ex at my other hotel) will either have to pay the police (which I doubt is possible), or will have to sort out a commercial registration.

right now, our car doesn't have any number plate at all, because it's a new car and there are no red plates available.... Probably another reason why it has attracted attention. My other hotel (ex-wife) has a private car with hotel stickers on the doors, and they too have been pulled up by the police.

BTW, both cars are insured to carry fee-paying passengers, even if the car has the wrong number plate type!

Simon

Edited July 31, 2012 by simon43

[taninthai]

How can it be insured to carry fee paying customers if it is not registered as a taxi think ypu may have problems there if a claim arises.

IMO having stickers on your car advertising your hotel or whatever is the worst thing you can do it makes your car stand out and be easily reconized and as in situations like this airport problem you are always gonna be singled out with your hotel name stuck all over your car

Edited July 31, 2012 by LivinginKata
off topic/personal question removed - send a PM

[LivinginKata]

Off topic post removed. If you have private/personal questions for Simon then send a PM.

[simon43]

IMO having stickers on your car advertising your hotel or whatever is the worst thing you can

Actually Airports of Thailand require all hotel vehicles which enter the airport to carry these identification stickers, and the driver must also wear a shirt or badge that identifies the company that he's working for.

So it seems that I need to decide which is the best type of commercial number plate to have on these hotel cars....

[petercallen]

IMO having stickers on your car advertising your hotel or whatever is the worst thing you can

Actually Airports of Thailand require all hotel vehicles which enter the airport to carry these identification stickers, and the driver must also wear a shirt or badge that identifies the company that he's working for.

So it seems that I need to decide which is the best type of commercial number plate to have on these hotel cars....

Didn't you have this same problem previously and post about it on this forum

I think you were driving the car at the time

[taninthai]

^

if it's your own personal car and you put commercial/ taxi plates on it in theory you may not be aloud to drive it again would be just drawing attention to yourself the police will wonder why a ferang is driving a registered taxi which is agaisnt thai working regulations of coarse if only Thais drive you have no problem.

If you get the taxi registration let us know how much it cost you my misses was gonna get it for her car but I advised her just park in car park at airport not pick up and drop of point we just use a taxi company most of the time when we are busy anyway

[simon43]

Previously I would do most of the airport pick-ups. I've done this for years and years, and never had any problems from either the police, airport authorities or other taxi drivers, (everyone knew me at the airport and everyone was very friendly).

Now, since I'm living/working in Myanmar, my driving of the hotel car is not an issue - it will either be my wife, her brother or a Thai driver.

I've asked my wife to inquire about all this - I'll post her findings when she gets these details

Simon

[NomadJoe]

I've asked my wife to inquire about all this - I'll post her findings when she gets these details

Simon

I assume you saw that your issue was answered?

Can I use my car to collect my hotel guests?

My Thai wife and I own a small hotel near the airport. We have owned this business for many years – it complies with all relevant legislation' date=' planning requirements, licenses, taxes and so on. We use our own hotel vehicle to collect and drop-off our guests. Recently, with the police crackdown on illegal black plate taxis, we have been stopped by the police outside the airport and told that they consider us to be a black taxi, and that we cannot use our hotel car to collect or drop-off our guests – we must use public taxis.

I do not think the police are correct.

Is it illegal for a registered hotel to use their registered car to collect and drop-off their registered guests?

Please advise if we are breaking the law.[/font']

Simon Luttrell, Phuket Airport Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:33:11 AM

“Although your hotel car is registered, it would be illegal to collect and drop-off hotel guests if it isn’t registered as a “hotel car” when being used as such.

Hotel cars or airport taxis must have a green license plate with white lettering.

Please check if you car is registered under the correct vehicle category and has the right vehicle registration plate. If it isn’t registered under the correct category, contact us to change the car registration category and get the correct license plate. Alternatively, you can use public taxis with yellow plates and black letters to serve your guests. For more information contact us at 076-211019 Monday to Friday, 8:30 to 4:30pm.” Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:33:11 AM

Phuket Land Transport Office Academic Officer Tassanee Nopparat.

http://www.phuketgaz...ils.asp?id=1322

[NamKangMan]

Previously I would do most of the airport pick-ups. I've done this for years and years, and never had any problems from either the police, airport authorities or other taxi drivers, (everyone knew me at the airport and everyone was very friendly).

Now, since I'm living/working in Myanmar, my driving of the hotel car is not an issue - it will either be my wife, her brother or a Thai driver.

I've asked my wife to inquire about all this - I'll post her findings when she gets these details

Simon

Do you mean to say that you, as a farang, would stand at the exit gate at the airport and hold up a sign, for example,

"Mr. John Smith - ABC Guesthouse" and no one every complained that a farang is doing "work" that is reserved for Thai's only, that being, commercial driving???? Especially, given the very tight grip over transport on the island.

If that's the case, why have I never seen any other farang doing this work illegally at the airport? It's quite lucrative, by Thai standards, at 500 baht a trip.

Didn't you think that was a high risk think to do? I would think it would carry a very high risk of coming under notice for breaching the Thai Labour Laws, or maybe being assaulted by the other drivers.

Did you know most of your guests, so, "acted" you were just picking up friends or relatives?

It appears to me that if the vehicle you are using is not registered as a commercial vehicle - you are operating illegally as a black taxi, and if the vehicle you are using is registered as a commerical vehicle, you are not allowed to drive it because you are breaching Thai Labour Laws because you can not get a work permit to be a commercial driver in Thailand because this occupation is reserved for Thai's only. I'm gathering, when you come back, you'll have to buy another car, for yourself to drive, or do not offer the airport pick-up service to your customers or use a Thai driver and is commercially registered vehicle.

Edited August 27, 2012 by NamKangMan

[simon43]

Do you mean to say that you, as a farang, would stand at the exit gate at the airport and hold up a sign, for example,

"Mr. John Smith - ABC Guesthouse" and no one every complained that a farang is doing "work" that is reserved for Thai's only, that being, commercial driving???? Especially, given the very tight grip over transport on the island.

Yes - I have been doing that for almost 7 years now - almost every night Never had any problems.

The reason why I have no problems is because my hotel pick-up service is free of charge and only provided for pre-booked guests. Most taxi drivers are not at all interested in taking guests to my hotels, since they are all within a few hundred metres of the airport.

Perhaps it's also because I get on very well with the local taxi drivers, airport authorities, police, immigration etc. I'm accepted as a 'local' at the airport

Having said all that, you won't find me holding up my signs anymore because I've recently relocated to Burma My Thai wife and hotel staff now perform this arduous duty.

Simon

Edited August 28, 2012 by simon43

[stevenl]

Do you mean to say that you, as a farang, would stand at the exit gate at the airport and hold up a sign, for example,

"Mr. John Smith - ABC Guesthouse" and no one every complained that a farang is doing "work" that is reserved for Thai's only, that being, commercial driving???? Especially, given the very tight grip over transport on the island.

Yes - I have been doing that for almost 7 years now - almost every night Never had any problems.

The reason why I have no problems is because my hotel pick-up service is free of charge and only provided for pre-booked guests. Most taxi drivers are not at all interested in taking guests to my hotels, since they are all within a few hundred metres of the airport.

Perhaps it's also because I get on very well with the local taxi drivers, airport authorities, police, immigration etc. I'm accepted as a 'local' at the airport

Having said all that, you won't find me holding up my signs anymore because I've recently relocated to Burma My Thai wife and hotel staff now perform this arduous duty.

Simon

I also stand at the airport sometimes with a sign with name(s) from my guest(s). No problem at all, and also not forbidden.

[simon43]

Hotel cars or airport taxis must have a green license plate with white lettering

Well, having taken the good advice of TV posters and the reply to my question in The Phuket Gazette, I now find that it is actually impossible to change the plates on our cars to the required green licence plate with white lettering!

Why?

Because the licencing office tells us they will not 'replate' any vehicle which has been purchased on hire purchase or bank loan - the hotel must own the car outright. Since it is common practice (good for business cash-flow), to finance the purchase of a business vehicle, I can't understand the rational in refusing to replate a vehicle so that it complies with the airport pick-up rules....

BTW - the police have no issues at all about my hotels dropping off our guests at the airport - they object to us picking them up.

The only viable solution to this is either to find the funds to purchase a dedicated 'shuttle van', or possibly for local small hotels to pool their resources and fund a vehicle together.

Simon

[noob7]

Hotel cars or airport taxis must have a green license plate with white lettering

Because the licencing office tells us they will not 'replate' any vehicle which has been purchased on hire purchase or bank loan - the hotel must own the car outright.[...]

...

Simon

Although 95 percent of the vehicles operating as illegal Phuket taxis are being paid off, negotiations are underway with key banks to make the transition to public vehicles easier.

If the banks have difficulties, the government bank and the islamic bank are said to be prepared to commit to the concept

(google it!).

I do not see any reason, why this should not work for your wife, too!

So let her check with the authorities, how to convince the licensing office in your case:

"So far 3594 illegal ''black'' Phuket taxis have asked to be registered. Today another 1048 cabbies signed on to add to 299 pioneers."

As stated above, 95% 'paid off'!

Edited September 18, 2012 by noob7