Advanced Notification On Rent Increase

[kawaiimomo]

Hi there,

I am currently living in one of those 1 room studio/apartment. Last month the management put a written notice on the walls saying electric unit would change from 5 to 6 baht starting 1st of August.

Now I just knew they are already charging the 6 baht in July rent. I am going to confront them and say them I will pay 5 for July and 6 for August as they said in their wall signs, but I would like to know if there is any law stating landlords must notify some time before they increase the prices.

Thanks

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[draftvader]

You willing to lose your deposit over a few 100 baht?

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[kawaiimomo]

My company put the deposit and it will lost the same because I want to move to another place and the company make a contract for 1 year.

And it's not about the few bahts; if they say beginning next month is next month.

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[jacktrip]

My company put the deposit and it will lost the same because I want to move to another place and the company make a contract for 1 year.

And it's not about the few bahts; if they say beginning next month is next month.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect App

Sounds like you have some latent anger. If it's not about the few baht then you have an axe to grind, not sure why.

A guy in front of me at the border recently pulled this kind of tantrum over a few baht (the day ended today at 6pm or some such argument). It made me very uncomfortable him causing such a scene with immigration with me there as I did not want it to rub off on me somehow, esp since I was next in line. He also did it in the van afterwards and it made me feel like I should respond in some way, tell him 'nevermind' or otherwise soothe his problem to diffuse the tension he created.

...but instead I just remained silent and figured it was his problem. And it worked, it was his problem and he learned to deal with it in the best way he could without my interference.

[kawaiimomo]

My company put the deposit and it will lost the same because I want to move to another place and the company make a contract for 1 year.

And it's not about the few bahts; if they say beginning next month is next month.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect App

Sounds like you have some latent anger. If it's not about the few baht then you have an axe to grind, not sure why.

A guy in front of me at the border recently pulled this kind of tantrum over a few baht (the day ended today at 6pm or some such argument). It made me very uncomfortable him causing such a scene with immigration with me there as I did not want it to rub off on me somehow, esp since I was next in line. He also did it in the van afterwards and it made me feel like I should respond in some way, tell him 'nevermind' or otherwise soothe his problem to diffuse the tension he created.

...but instead I just remained silent and figured it was his problem. And it worked, it was his problem and he learned to deal with it in the best way he could without my interference.

So your point is I should keep quiet and agree with everyone who wants to scam me? Where in post do you think I have latent anger? If they put a notice saying the electric unit will increase in month x, is month x not x-1. This is the same in Thailand and every country. It's not about 400 baht, it's about the principle (If they wanted to start charging that amount this month they could have said that in the written notice)

Don't compare it to being a jerk at immigration where everything is at the officer discretion; this is a business and they are trying to scam the whole building. Maybe most of the Thais are going to be kreng jai and pay without protesting but that's not me and I am going to argue with them along with 2 o more rooms (Thais btw). These apartments have 2 buildings one next to the other, I have another Thai friend living in the other building and they didn't increase the electric unit the previous month, why should be this building different (specially when they clearly stated when this increase should take place).

The reason for this notices, as they did before when they increased the rent, is to give a chance to the tenant to move out if he can not afford it or don't want to. Oh, and forget the TiT, it will be like that if you agree every time someone tries to scam you (You could also pay the flat rate many taxis try to charge you but I doubt you agree on that)

So what I was expecting is an answer on actual laws about landlords and tenants to told them if they refuse to charge us the 5 bahts instead of 6. It would be nice to have some legal argument apart from the fact that the increase will took place next month.

EDIT: Well, I found out there are no specific laws on tenant rights so is whatever is put on the contract which it's in Thai and my company signed. I guess the conversation will be reduced to what they wrote on the papers glued to the wall.

Edited August 1, 2012 by kawaiimomo

[draftvader]

If you think it is worthwhile then maybe discuss it with your company who have the vested interest in the deposit before you confront the staff on the front desk. In reality you are going to learn a lesson about how Thailand works. I don't think you will win. Whether you gain the "OK, this is correct and we won't charge you the increase until August" (unlikely) or not you will now "queer your pitch" with the management of your home and will find that future requests for assistance will be dealt with in a painfully slow manner.

Please think carefully about what I am saying here.

Then it is (as a Thai will say) "up to you".....

[Soutpeel]

It would be nice to have some legal argument apart from the fact that the increase will took place next month.

Are you a lawyer or something, or are you thinking of retaining a lawyer for this matter ?

Are your sure your meter period is 1st to last of the month ?

Have you actually talked to them as to why the early charge

I know in my case sometimes the bill it get from the water company is actual + estimated usage and then adjusted the following month for actual, so in theroy at least the early charge could be based on an estimated usage, as they are estimating ahead.

If you are going to play the great farang saviour of the Thai nation, sure you want to do it over a few baht ?

Edited August 2, 2012 by Soutpeel

[theoldgit]

Of course they were already overcharging at 5 Baht per unit.

[Soutpeel]

Of course they were already overcharging at 5 Baht per unit.

Yeap

[whistleblower]

Of course they were already overcharging at 5 Baht per unit.

Yeap

Just out as a point of interest what is the correct government rate?

[Soutpeel]

Of course they were already overcharging at 5 Baht per unit.

Yeap

Just out as a point of interest what is the correct government rate?

Not as simple as a single rate, your unit rate depends on usage...the more you use the more you pay, if memory serves bottom rate about THB 1.5/unit upto about THB 3.5/unit.

One assumes in the case of the condo, overall usage is consider "high" as the power in would be single supply metered in for the owner and then onto indivudal meters for the Units (I am not electrial, but sure one of TV residents can shed light on this)

But lets assume high usage bracket for Condo owner is paying THB 3.5 unit as a base rate, then there is obviously maintenace/admin costs on this for the condo owner, so this is how they reach THB 5.0/unit to the user...so very high rates charged in condo, may not be very high, depends on the base rate the owner is getting charged.

All this assumes domestic supply and there will be different unit rates applied for industry/business/factories..ie really big power users

Some poster will remember a few years ago...electrial usage below 50kwh was free for a certain period of time

[thenervoussurgeon]

To the OP you my friend are going to have a problem living in Thailand

[whistleblower]

Of course they were already overcharging at 5 Baht per unit.

Yeap

Just out as a point of interest what is the correct government rate?

Not as simple as a single rate, your unit rate depends on usage...the more you use the more you pay, if memory serves bottom rate about THB 1.5/unit upto about THB 3.5/unit.

One assumes in the case of the condo, overall usage is consider "high" as the power in would be single supply metered in for the owner and then onto indivudal meters for the Units (I am not electrial, but sure one of TV residents can shed light on this)

But lets assume high usage bracket for Condo owner is paying THB 3.5 unit as a base rate, then there is obviously maintenace/admin costs on this for the condo owner, so this is how they reach THB 5.0/unit to the user...so very high rates charged in condo, may not be very high, depends on the base rate the owner is getting charged.

All this assumes domestic supply and there will be different unit rates applied for industry/business/factories..ie really big power users

Some poster will remember a few years ago...electrial usage below 50kwh was free for a certain period of time

Thanks for that. I live in my own house. I dont get a broken down bill just a figure I have to pay.

[lomatopo]

This just may be a language/translation/understanding issue? Perhaps what they meant was that for the rental bill payable 1 August, which typically includes the rental payment for 1 - 30 August, plus any usage charges for 1 - 31 July, would reflect the increase in electricity charges for July?

What does your rental contract say re: changes in usage fees, required notifications, etc.?

Are you able to have a reasonable discussion with the management re: your concerns? What do other tenants say? Using a word like "confront" does indeed suggest a certain level of anger which rarely can lead to a positive outcome, especially here.

[Kilgore Trout]

My company put the deposit and it will lost the same because I want to move to another place and the company make a contract for 1 year.

And it's not about the few bahts; if they say beginning next month is next month.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect App

Sounds like you have some latent anger. If it's not about the few baht then you have an axe to grind, not sure why.

A guy in front of me at the border recently pulled this kind of tantrum over a few baht (the day ended today at 6pm or some such argument). It made me very uncomfortable him causing such a scene with immigration with me there as I did not want it to rub off on me somehow, esp since I was next in line. He also did it in the van afterwards and it made me feel like I should respond in some way, tell him 'nevermind' or otherwise soothe his problem to diffuse the tension he created.

...but instead I just remained silent and figured it was his problem. And it worked, it was his problem and he learned to deal with it in the best way he could without my interference.

Agreed, when working in US I had a group; I decided to charge a Brit about 10% more than everyone else because they were from E. Europe and Britons are richer.

The guy threw a fit. What a stupid jerk, very embarrasing for other people from the UK visiting the US; remember, its my country and if I want to discriminate I will do so and I don't care what aliens say.

If he didn't like it he should just leave, its not his country so he should just pay and shut up.

[hedonist44]

To the OP you my friend are going to have a problem living in Thailand

Seems he thinks he's already got a problem, little does he know what's ahead of him if he plans on staying here more than a few months:) Best he leaves "his" principles at home or go buy some candles.....

[Soutpeel]

Thanks for that. I live in my own house. I dont get a broken down bill just a figure I have to pay.

Mines the same as yours, I got this info from talking to one of the EGAT boys a long while ago, not even sure if rates I have quotes are still applicable but dont think they are too far off.

The point I was trying to illustrate was that everyone starts bleating scam etc, and this may not be quite true, are they paying a bit of premium, but maybe not scam.... ie the owners are being charged THB 1.5kwh and charging 5 or 6, the owners maybe paying THB 3.5kwh and adding a premium as a mark up

[Soutpeel]

To the OP you my friend are going to have a problem living in Thailand

Seems he thinks he's already got a problem, little does he know what's ahead of him if he plans on staying here more than a few months:) Best he leaves "his" principles at home or go buy some candles.....

or a solar panel on his balcony and can drink & wash with rain water off the roof.....problem solved

[chrisinth]

My company put the deposit and it will lost the same because I want to move to another place and the company make a contract for 1 year.

And it's not about the few bahts; if they say beginning next month is next month.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect App

Sounds like you have some latent anger. If it's not about the few baht then you have an axe to grind, not sure why.

A guy in front of me at the border recently pulled this kind of tantrum over a few baht (the day ended today at 6pm or some such argument). It made me very uncomfortable him causing such a scene with immigration with me there as I did not want it to rub off on me somehow, esp since I was next in line. He also did it in the van afterwards and it made me feel like I should respond in some way, tell him 'nevermind' or otherwise soothe his problem to diffuse the tension he created.

...but instead I just remained silent and figured it was his problem. And it worked, it was his problem and he learned to deal with it in the best way he could without my interference.

So your point is I should keep quiet and agree with everyone who wants to scam me? Where in post do you think I have latent anger? If they put a notice saying the electric unit will increase in month x, is month x not x-1. This is the same in Thailand and every country. It's not about 400 baht, it's about the principle (If they wanted to start charging that amount this month they could have said that in the written notice)

Don't compare it to being a jerk at immigration where everything is at the officer discretion; this is a business and they are trying to scam the whole building. Maybe most of the Thais are going to be kreng jai and pay without protesting but that's not me and I am going to argue with them along with 2 o more rooms (Thais btw). These apartments have 2 buildings one next to the other, I have another Thai friend living in the other building and they didn't increase the electric unit the previous month, why should be this building different (specially when they clearly stated when this increase should take place).

The reason for this notices, as they did before when they increased the rent, is to give a chance to the tenant to move out if he can not afford it or don't want to. Oh, and forget the TiT, it will be like that if you agree every time someone tries to scam you (You could also pay the flat rate many taxis try to charge you but I doubt you agree on that)

So what I was expecting is an answer on actual laws about landlords and tenants to told them if they refuse to charge us the 5 bahts instead of 6. It would be nice to have some legal argument apart from the fact that the increase will took place next month.

EDIT: Well, I found out there are no specific laws on tenant rights so is whatever is put on the contract which it's in Thai and my company signed. I guess the conversation will be reduced to what they wrote on the papers glued to the wall.

Shouldn't sign contracts if you don't understand what is written in them; because it is written in Thai, in Thailand, is not an excuse.

On the question of the rise in electricity prices, have you asked them why they have done this? If you know it has been done, then you must have proof of fact??

Edit: Don't forget, the bill you pay in August will be for the electricity used in July; is this what they meant by price increases in bills for August and not rates for August? It would explain why you are being charged a higher premium for July.

Edited August 2, 2012 by chrisinth

[hedonist44]

To the OP you my friend are going to have a problem living in Thailand

Seems he thinks he's already got a problem, little does he know what's ahead of him if he plans on staying here more than a few months:) Best he leaves "his" principles at home or go buy some candles.....

or a solar panel on his balcony and can drink & wash with rain water off the roof.....problem solved

+1

[SaNim]

I love all this roll over and stick your bum in the air advice.

Write them a letter setting out the facts , include a copy of their notice and finish by stating that you will deduct the excess. Deliver the letter with your adjusted payment and get a receipt.

If they cut you off call the police around.

[kawaiimomo]

Thanks for the few useful replies, and for the rest: yeah mates, you should continue agreeing to everyone who tries to take advantage of you; I wonder how well it worked for you back home

[thenervoussurgeon]

I love all this roll over and stick your bum in the air advice.

Write them a letter setting out the facts , include a copy of their notice and finish by stating that you will deduct the excess. Deliver the letter with your adjusted payment and get a receipt.

If they cut you off call the police around.

That"l work

[thenervoussurgeon]

Thanks for the few useful replies, and for the rest: yeah mates, you should continue agreeing to everyone who tries to take advantage of you; I wonder how well it worked for you back home

If you dont like it ,move .

[kawaiimomo]

Thanks for the few useful replies, and for the rest: yeah mates, you should continue agreeing to everyone who tries to take advantage of you; I wonder how well it worked for you back home

If you dont like it ,move .

Move from Thailand, from this thread, from the building or all of them? Huh?

[Soutpeel]

Write them a letter setting out the facts , include a copy of their notice and finish by stating that you will deduct the excess. Deliver the letter with your adjusted payment and get a receipt.

Therein is the problem, what are the facts ?

Has the OP talked to the owners as to why the increase

What is his billing cycle ?

What is the unit cost to the owners to prove his scam theory

Has there been a unit cost increase imposed by the power company

What are the T&C's of the lease

etc

etc

notice he says he is going to confront them....that means he hasent even talked to the owners about this

Sh*t, If I was getting onto a forum bleating about a THB 1 a unit increase, and its a scam I would be seriously thinking of leaving, and going home to mummy

Edited August 2, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Tafia]

So why post about it...just do what you want!!

[theoldgit]

To give the OP an idea as to the cost per unit charged to the bill holder I have just dug out my last bill for the period to 7th July, I live in a condo but we all have our own meters and are billed directly.

I used 502 units, I was billed for 150 @ 2.2628 Baht, 250 @ 3.7362 and 102 @ 3.9360, so a total of 1,749.95 for the power consumed.

On top of the charge for the power there are charges of 38.22 and 150.60 for I not know what and 135.71 for VAT.

My total bill was 2,074.48, which equates to 4.13 Baht per unit. OK, probably not one hell of a mark up for the OP, but multiply that over the year and how many units there are and it adds up.

Not quiet sure of the need to mark up, apart from extra profit, I suspect all the power used in the common areas is paid for out of the monthly maintenance fee.

As a matter of interest the price increase is 30 Satang per unit.

[SaNim]

Write them a letter setting out the facts , include a copy of their notice and finish by stating that you will deduct the excess. Deliver the letter with your adjusted payment and get a receipt.

Therein is the problem, what are the facts ?

Has the OP talked to the owners as to why the increase

What is his billing cycle ?

What is the unit cost to the owners to prove his scam theory

Has there been a unit cost increase imposed by the power company

What are the T&C's of the lease

etc

etc

notice he says he is going to confront them....that means he hasent even talked to the owners about this

Sh*t, If I was getting onto a forum bleating about a THB 1 a unit increase, and its a scam I would be seriously thinking of leaving, and going home to mummy

Your right.

I just get annoyed with advice that amounts to run away , run away.

[whistleblower]

My company put the deposit and it will lost the same because I want to move to another place and the company make a contract for 1 year.

And it's not about the few bahts; if they say beginning next month is next month.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect App

By the same standards- your topic heading is misleading your not talking about rent increases, your talking about electricity costs.

I suggest asking for a raise from your company. That way we wouldnt have 2 pages of twaddle about a few baht!