Rik325i Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hi Let me introduce myself, my names Rik im a german trained kitchen fitter living in scotland, ive been talking to a lovely thai lady for months on the internet and recently visited her for the first time, she lives a couple of hours drive from Bangkok and runs her own small family restaurant together with her parents. she is a few years younger than my 43 and very mature and responsible and good fun to be with, we had a good time while i was there, she showed me some of the sights when she could afford to take time away from the restaurant and i helped out when she couldnt by stocking up the drinks, clearing tables and sweeping up etc etc Anyway long story short, while i was there i decided i could help and make her job a little easier in her kitchen by making some rather small changes, so the family jumped in their pickup and various cars and off we went to buy materials, two days later she closed the kitchen for a day and i put in place the worktops etc i had built after seeing what i had built the lady i know asked me if i can build other furniture and took me to see what was in the shops locally, i have built a lot of furniture in my time and have some out of the box ideas that may sell well in thailand later but how hard would it be to start building furniture in thailand starting just with a few tools that i can send over before i go on holiday and building some pieces to sell during said holidays ? My thai Ladyfriend and i are just getting to know each other and having both been hurt before were taking things very slowly, Bearing in mind that i will be starting from scratch and i dont have any starting capital but am still in work in scotland and able to save enough for regular visits to thailand with money to buy required materials and im not naieve enough to think that i can just sell up here move over there and it will be a roaring overnight success Does anyone have advice to give on how if at all i can achieve eventually starting such a business ? Thanks for reading this Rik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Masonry, carpentry and other construction work are 'reserved occupations' in Thailand. They can only be done by Thais which means you'd never get a work permit. You aren't allowed to work (even as a volunteer) in Thailand without a work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik325i Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 i didnt realise that building furniture for my thai ladyfriend to sell would be classed as construction industry ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurwait Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) I imagine you can do it if you register a business, but the problem is findng your market, advertising it, business premises etc. As posted above you can't legally do the work yourself and without capital you're going to struggle. You'll need to employ 4 Thais at somewhere near 9000B a month each depending on location and pay minimum tax. So you'll looking at about 45,000 baht a month to cover that. Then there is the matter of do you trust this lady or any other Thai enough to go into business with them ? Then of course you've then got to be able to beat the mass manufacture stuff from Index etc and now IKEA plus all the thousands of Thais already doing this. It's possible, but it's not going to be easy. Edited August 1, 2012 by arthurwait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 i didnt realise that building furniture for my thai ladyfriend to sell would be classed as construction industry ?? It would be carpentry - presuming you make furniture out of wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyself Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Can't do a job a Thai person can do. That is not to say they can actually do it, they just have to say they can do it. This is why you can't apply to be the PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik325i Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 my idea is to start building some small pieces of modern style western furniture out of real wood during my holidays there and giving it to my ladyfriend to sell, the first pieces will be a gift to her which she can attempt to sell and see if there is a viable market in her area so no issues about visa, licences etc at first, after perusing the visa laws, forbidden jobs and causing ourselves no end of headaches i decided to ask here after reading about people suggesting ways around certain aspects of the strict laws governing foreigners living and working in thailand. My thai ladyfriend and i like each other quite a lot and i am trying to find a way utilising the skills i have learned in my life to be able to live with her in thailand should the relationship develop that far Yes i do trust her, if i manage to start this business, she couldnt do it without me anyway (in the beginning) she is a very good cook and thai language teacher and also an accountant but she cant tell the back from the front of a router or circular saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik325i Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 also the furniture i make will be a mix of materials, wood, glass, aluminium, fibreglass. ive seen carving on the forbidden jobs list and also construction joinery but nowhere have i seen furniture specifically mentioned, would i be able to find out by phoning the thai embassy in london ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 How do a german guy living in scotland spell "bankruptcy" in thai language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik325i Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 hi Bender, im not German, im scottish, i just lived in germany for a few years i cant see how you can think i will go bankrupt when i will be trying this at first whilst keeping my job in scotland, ill just be building some furniture whilst visiting my thai ladyfriend and over the course of months or years attempting to make a business out of it all im asking for is a little advice on this subject and the best way to go about it, im not in a mad rush thinking this will be an overnight success and i have seen that there is a market for what i can make, i would be quite happy producing furniture in her fathers rather large garage right next to the house and small restaurant they own, im not in this with delusions of grandeur, just a nice simple life with her and her family is all i need and she just wants me beside her, she doesnt need my money, thats not what this is about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) hi Bender, im not German, im scottish, i just lived in germany for a few years i cant see how you can think i will go bankrupt when i will be trying this at first whilst keeping my job in scotland, ill just be building some furniture whilst visiting my thai ladyfriend and over the course of months or years attempting to make a business out of it all im asking for is a little advice on this subject and the best way to go about it, im not in a mad rush thinking this will be an overnight success and i have seen that there is a market for what i can make, i would be quite happy producing furniture in her fathers rather large garage right next to the house and small restaurant they own, im not in this with delusions of grandeur, just a nice simple life with her and her family is all i need and she just wants me beside her, she doesnt need my money, thats not what this is about I like this advice: Just put the money that you can afford to walk away. So yeah dont burn the bridge.. Otherwise can just wish you good luck. Edited August 1, 2012 by Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marstons Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 you need a work permit period, which you wont get. you worked illegally in the kingdom doing the work you did for which you could be deported and black listed. Facts i am afraid, frustrating as hell but thats the way it is. As an ex pat of 10 years oh what i would give to have European tradesmen available, but apparantly Thai people or able to do this type of work. Even stocking up the fridge without a work permit is illegal and has landed a few in the cells at immigration. Depends where you are but a local "tradesman" may well get jealous and dob you in to immigration. Easy 100,000 baht for them, or even still a local friendly ex pat, it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marstons Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 i didnt realise that building furniture for my thai ladyfriend to sell would be classed as construction industry ?? now you do, well its classed as you working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacktrip Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Forget doing it above board. If you happen do make something in your free time as a hobby just don't leave it around, your lady may try to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post billaaa777 Posted August 1, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted August 1, 2012 I love all the expert advice on this site. What you want to do is rather easy and not too expensive. All you need to do is to have your wife form a company, if she does not have one already. She can then hire you as the "Supervisor", which will get you the work permit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandjoe Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Life's to short - give it a go working under the radar on a 3 month tourist visa and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holysteel Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) - Try to marry that Thai lady. If she wants to. ( Long term Marriage Visa ) - Build the furniture behind 'scene'. Ask her to sell/market it for you. - Be the Mr friendly farang guy in the neighborhood. Be nice to everyone. Keep a low profile. Dun attract trouble. - Split the profits. Maybe 60%-70% to yourself since ur paying for the materials. 40%-30% for her. Or you can be generous and go 50-50, maybe 80% to her. Lol.. your call. Not mine. - Be good to her parents. Appeal to their needs. - Thats it. End of story. Live happily ever after.. Just try to do things one thing at a time. Progress alittle in each stage. Once the money start pouring in..maybe you can consider starting a company. Edited August 1, 2012 by Holysteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 i didnt realise that building furniture for my thai ladyfriend to sell would be classed as construction industry ?? who cares? just dont tell any jealous nosy farang and you will be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 There are lots of farang in Thailand doing jobs that Thais can technically do and have a work permit. All you have to do is state that you have skills in your profession that the Thais do not have. You then have a specialized skill, you are a furniture maker, not a carpenter. All the discussion about work permits is for naught anyway since in order to have a WP you need to hired by a company which sponsors the WP. This is not the case in your situation. If it were me, I would build the furniture on the side while on holiday, give it to your GF to sell and hope that she kicks some back to you. You have to crawl before you can walk. Start slow and enjoy yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 built a kitchen,built some furniture,building a relationship with your gf.and family,next build will be a house, you are going to have to build up plenty of capital so its goner be build,build and bills.good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik325i Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 so it is possible to do this slowly and also legally, sort of and definately becoming legal when we have sufficient turnover to achieve this, ill look into the ltd firm advice with my ladyfriend Thanks for the advice so far, its restored in me a little hope that we maybe do have a chance to be together without miraculously winning the lottery or selling various vital organs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Ask all the posters who are telling you to 'work under the radar' if they'd be willing to take your place when you get nicked for working without a work permit because some local is getting pissed off with you stealing his customers... Edited August 1, 2012 by endure 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 so it is possible to do this slowly and also legally, sort of and definately becoming legal when we have sufficient turnover to achieve this, ill look into the ltd firm advice with my ladyfriend Thanks for the advice so far, its restored in me a little hope that we maybe do have a chance to be together without miraculously winning the lottery or selling various vital organs Rik,you are or will be illegal my friend no matter how you look at it ,you won't get a work permit for this job my friend tried .Basically you could set up a company with Thai carpenters/labourers and you the owner/director but as so as you go hands on ,in trouble my friend and as been said already you piss somebody off or out of jealously your done in Thailand. Good luck.... Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Ask all the posters who are telling you to 'work under the radar' if they'd be willing to take your place when you get nicked for working without a work permit because some local is getting pissed off with you stealing his customers... Yeap...I would imagine half the poster who are suggesting this have never worked in Thailand and what he proposes to do is quite "visable" and a little beyong sitting a room working on a computer on line....I would be very careful doing this without a WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Hi Rik, From that I can tell, really the only way to make this legal, would be to be employed by your girl, who also employs some Thai's to do the work, and you supervise and train. The problem you face is that as soon as you make any money, Somchai down the road will get his nose out of joint and report you... or some looser farang in the local bar, next village, working on a rig in the gulf but upset that his girlfriend thinks you have a good heart, or that you are happy and he isn't, will report you... You get stuffed into a detention centre, deported, and blacklisted... split up from our girlfriend... Some guys in Chiang Mai, with legitimate visas; and I believe even work permits for other jobs were recently busted for playing music in a bar, without pay, without having a work permit... Not telling you not to do it, but you must understand the risk and consequence... Cheers, Daewoo Edited August 2, 2012 by Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 or some looser farang in the local bar, next village, working on a rig in the gulf but upset that his girlfriend thinks you have a good heart, or that you are happy and he isn't, will report you... all the looser farangs working rigs in the gulf are long gone, assume your are talking about the Thai gulf as opposed to the gulf of mexico ?....plenty of loosers working there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) or some looser farang in the local bar, next village, working on a rig in the gulf but upset that his girlfriend thinks you have a good heart, or that you are happy and he isn't, will report you... all the looser farangs working rigs in the gulf are long gone, assume your are talking about the Thai gulf as opposed to the gulf of mexico ?....plenty of loosers working there.. I meant The Gulf of Thailand - but equally, based in Thailand and working in Nigeria or elsewhere... or any other full or part time expat who will run you in just because they can... unfortunately there are quite a few who will make themself feel good just by pushing someone else down... Edited August 2, 2012 by Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 rik,being a scotsman they are known to be a little bit sevy when it comes to money,but you shouldnt worry,gf will run the business,m.i.l.will look after the till and f.i.l.will do the accounts all you have to do is sit back and watch the money roll in[and out]no need to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurwait Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 As others have said you can do it under the radar, but if someone gets jealous about you are working illegally and could be in for a whole lot of trouble or more likely the local bib sees a money making opportunity. The risk of the latter and maybe even the first can be reduced if your wifes family have already been contributing to the tea money funds. Locals not in the trade will most likely not be bothered about you one way or another as long as you don't piss them off in some way. Also if your wifes family are wealthy it's likely no one will bother grassing you up as they know it's simply who has the most money has the most influence and will win. They know they won't get the end result they want and will lose face, maybe have trouble finding employment again. Another problem is the cost of real wood here not bought in bulk. Also most under thirty years old Thais want fashion furniture bought cheap and often, from Ikea and Index not real wood furniture. It also depends where you live. If not in Bangkok, the eastern seaboard or maybe holiday spots your market will be very limited. As said before there are thousands of Thais already doing this without the costs you will have. Look at all the design magazines being sold for what people are buying (trying to sell) and what the competition is. If it is good and advertised it will be copied and made cheaper. Again much evidence of this is in the magazines. Good luck if you give it a go. Such as making some furniture for your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbie Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I love all the talk about failure. With advice like that given here, Google, Apple and a host of other companies would never have gotten off the ground. Some people can’t see past their next beer or English class. Two of my uncles (now sadly deceased) were highly successful in businesses that they started and ran – one as a no English speaking, barely a pot to piss fresh off the boat immigrant to the US. I assure you, they would shudder at such nonsense talk. The western world is getting its ass kicked because we are too afraid to take risks anymore. One thing I like about the Scottish people I’ve known, they seem more willing than most to open a business. What you are proposing is not an expensive business. If you have the resources, give it a try. Many successful entrepreneurs try several times to get it right – making and losing money before they finally learn to run their own business and be successful. Don’t be afraid of business failure – learn, adapt, move on and try again. Taking risks, however, does not mean being stupid. The legalities in Thailand of owning a business and/or working legally are complex. Speak to a lawyer or a company that specializes in this. There are businesses that will help you be creative in setting this up. Maybe you can declare your work as art or list yourself as a designer. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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